Hello. I am proud to release Computer Jockeys, a live music application currently available for FREE.

It's similar in concept to Ableton Live, except you can use the same MIDI keyboard to jam as to trigger loops, video, and lights. You can play an hour long set without the need to touch a mouse, and you don't really ever need to look (let alone squint) at the monitor.

Computer Jockeys

*You must read through the Quick Start section to properly set up a MIDI port.

Currently, the documentation is only in its initial state. I will gradually update the docs over time. Also, it is Windows only.

Enjoy,
Brian

Does it host VSTs and VSTi's? (im on dialup, no way I can look at the presentations or get the download just now)

just downloading. although i use live a mac

greetZ ANdreas

damn, that presentation video is huge...
some docs or infos please.

The huge video is the documentation for now. The author hasn't the time and I think is considering enlistening beta testers to test the software and author the documentation.

"For details about the Computer Jockeys live music application, please read this webpage."

And it points back to this thread.

Not very encouraging if you ask me.

I saw the presentation when he first posted it in another thread a few days ago. It's not all that helpful--it's not how to use the program, it's just him giving a live demonstration of him controling sound and lights from a strap-on synth keyboard. He's doing this in a darkened room at a seminar--almost no screen shots or anything.

That said, it's pretty cool. The idea is to be able to control the stage from one synth keyboard without touching a mouse or computer keyboard. The computer screen shows large color squares that indicate things like loops playing and loops that can be played (from the synth), all from several feet away from the screen. That way, the musician doesn't look tied to a laptop. One octave plays the lights, another the loops, another live keyboard--something like that anyway.

It's not the kind of stuff I'd do right now, but I bet someone could take this and really run with it.

Tom

Hello. To address the documentation issue, I have created a new zip file which contains just the user manual (only 120k).

This can now be accessed from the main page, and a direct link is here. This manual is also included in the main download. Note, this manual is a work in progress and will be updated over time.

Other comments: It does not host VST or VSTi's at this time.

Thanks,
Brian

I hit the traffic limit for my ISP again, which is leading to broken links for both the main download and the presentation video.

I apologize for anyone who attempted to download today and couldn't. I've upped my limit again, and people should be able to download again within 12 hours (according to my ISP). I may lower the resolution of the presentation video to cut the download size.

So, obviously people are downloading but not commenting. That's fine, but here's a call out to people who are attempting to learn more.

Please let me know what area of documentation (chapter) I should write next.

Also, on a separate note, if you are interested in more demo songs, I have 16. Unfortunately, none are licensed for uploading.

Thanks,
Brian

thenumber23 wrote:

Please let me know what area of documentation (chapter) I should write next.

I wonder if CJ would integrate into FL Studio??
FL does have a DirectMusic synth plugin already { http://www.flstudio.com/help/html/plugins/Fruity%20LSD.htm }... so there must be a API for it:
http://forum.e-officedirect.com/forum.exe?forumname=FLStudio_Developer sArena

If such a thing were possible it would send FL right off the planet (as if it weren't already out in the stratosphere already).

Just a thought, now I gotta dig into the app,
Scott

it would be great if the documentation included what the requirements are and what formats and stuff it's compatible with, like you said no vsts or vstis at this time, what about dxis or anything else. the software is quite impressive.

This application doesn't seem to be that interesting in the current version. These features have been around for awhile in other applications like FL, Live, and Mixman. It would have been better if Computer Jockeys supported VST effects and low-latency ASIO at the very least so that stale loop playing could be overcome just a little bit by having live filter sweeps, delay echos, and granular stutters applied to the loops, along with an ASIO driver so that the effects are applied in real time with minimal latency. In addition, a simple ASDR envelope would be helpful, as well as loop points that could be modulated via midi cc as an easy way to make a big-beat style build up by stuttering the same loop with shorter end times as the build progresses. As is, this a very simple tool that is about 6 years too late. If this had come out in 98, it would have been a freeware blessing, but now it's a novelty. When you come up with the next version, I'll be happy to check it out, because I'm always up for good freeware, but until then laters!

ATA

very good points atomic_afro, as a matter of fact it couldn't be said better, but just think of the limitations, this thing would make you work hard for your tunes.

But really, wouldn't working hard for your tunes mean that you not only trigger loops, but apply effects as well, and make the live piece as evocative as the studio version? I know from trying to put together a live version of some of my works that getting everything to work right, including effects and adding interesting deviations from the original is very difficult, not the triggering loops, but everything else like filter sweeps and quick changeups as well as playing your own solos. All of which is much easier to do in FL Studio, and it looks like it will be likewise easier to do so in Live 4 as well. In reality, although triggering video and lights are nice, they aren't what make a show special. It's the musician going up there and doing something evocative that's just a note shy of total chaos that the audience respects. Triggering simple loops is so '96-99. These days, a live electronic show has to hold it's own not against DJs, who are something different than live musicians, but real bands who spend years crafting their skills as live musicians. Computer Jockeys isn't a bad program, just not professional by today's standards. It's like comparing an Akai S-612 to an S3000. Yes, if one were to use an S-612, you would be creatively restricted into using the limitations of sample time, bit rate, etc. However, software is not hardware, and if a company in '96 came out with a sampler with the same specs as the S-612, it would have been seen by the music technology community as what Computer Jockeys essentially is, a toy.

ATA

Interesting comments.

I took a quick look at the FL Studio SDK. While anything is technically possible, this would require a large amount of code to turn Computer Jockeys into an FL generator or effect.

Also, FL Studio can use the DirectMusic software synth as can Computer Jockeys, but the two applications cannot link together via that synth.

The user manual contains the system requirements (any Windows XP computer with a soundcard, and a MIDI controller). This application doesn't support VST or DX plugins. However, as with any MIDI app, you would be able to connect Computer Jockeys to a softsynth via a virtual MIDI driver.

The file formats that Computer Jockeys accepts are standard DirectMusic files, which include DLS files (similar to SoundFont files) and Segment files (similar to MIDI files).

With a variety of 3rd party conversion tools, it is possible to convert songs from Sonic Foundry Acid, Ableton Live, and Mixman StudioXPro into Computer Jockeys.

Atomic_afro, it was interesting to read your post. It almost read like a checklist of features for Ableton Live - it sounds like that software will be perfect for you. It was never my goal to make a freeware version of Live. I listed my goals in the user manual, and to date Ableton Live can't do any of them (even version 4), but it doesn't look like that's what their goals are, so that makes sense.

If this application were to succeed, it would require a user community to create songs and share them. That would be equivalent to artists creating vinyl records. Then the CJ would use those songs live with ease (like a DJ does with vinyl).

Brian

Atomic_afro, your subsequent post was also interesting. I believe that the holy grail of live electronica would be to have it sound just like the studio version, but be performed live. Unfortunately, to date I have never seen an artist or band do that. To get close, most electronica acts use prerecorded parts (such as tape or hard disk playback). I don't consider that live as the musicians are locked into the structure of the prerecorded sections. A good example: Underworld. Looks and sounds great, but every gig they play will look and sound the same.

Then there's Ableton Live. I'm not exactly sure what to make of it yet. Every artist who I have seen use it has not impressed me for two reasons. One, they are locked to their display. Some Live users look like they are finishing a quick email before they run out to lunch. That's the nature of an application with small fonts and an Excel spreadsheet like look. You are tied to the mouse to make full use of the program live. As an audience member, that doesn't excite me at all.

The other is the music that Ableton Live users create live is somewhat monotonous. This is the nature of their design which doesn't facilitate large structural changes like verse/chorus or solo sections. Well, it does, but it would be impossible to map that to a MIDI keyboard for use live if you're using the only work around I know which lets you play two songs without doing a File..Load between them.

Live artists can do plenty of 'tweaking', and I've heard some unique IDM as a result, but I haven't heard Live artists play things with a song structure (short of triggering the entire track, which I don't consider live).

I feel lights and video are very important live, and I don't mean generic lights that go freewheel and a stock video that doesn't correspond to the music. Look at a Madonna theatrical performance or Underworld: their performance jars all your senses, not just your ears. However, both those artists cannot improvise at all, and all their gigs look identical. That's not really live.

That's where Computer Jockeys comes in. It's much closer to what a live band playing and improvising electronica would want to do. There's no mouse or keyboard to deal with. The musician can jam and improvise. The music supports song structural changes and that structure can be decided spur of the moment. The lights and video are tied to what music is actually playing, and that's also dynamic, not pre-defined throughout the song. In my case, I'll be free to roam around stage (or even into the audience) with a wireless MIDI pack.

To me, that defines the energy of a live performance, and those were my goals when creating Computer Jockeys.

Brian

Which why I said:

Quote:

I bet someone could take this and really run with it.

No pun intended! I completely agree with the "locked to the display" statement. I admire what you've done and I hope a user base will evolve as you've described.

Tom

yes I agree. cheap shots at ableton Live aside because to be honest the only comments you made about Live that were true were the fact that you need
to look at the screen, and even that is subjective because there are people right now on the ableton Live forum who have Live setup so that they do not have to look at the screen while performing. I am not one of them, I do not use Live Live, but as a studio recording environment.

you are very passionate about your program, that is a great thing and I admire your work and ethics regarding music. I would never call your program a toy, toy manufacturers make toys not artist and I hope you continue to develop your ideas and go forward.

I don't play live, but I wish I could someday. When I see your explanations and see the video I feel there's something going on, but the program's interface is totally disencouraging Maybe I am missing something....

Hello. I'm not trying to knock Ableton Live. It is a great program and Ableton is really doing an excellent job of promoting it in the scene. In Seattle, they hold frequent events called "Laptop Battles," which are partly sponsored by Ableton, and these events seem to draw a big crowd.

I'm only commenting as an audience member based on artists that I have seen who use Ableton Live in a live setting. I've only seen one artist step away from the laptop, and that was only for under two minutes when he walked into the crowd with a USB keyboard and triggered loops from there. That was fun - if only he could have done the entire gig from there

If I ever coded Rewire (or some other form of sync) into my app, then that would truly give the best of both worlds. One musician could be on Live, one on Computer Jockeys, and then bands could come up with new scenarios that I have never dreamed of.

Jax, I understand your comments. I've had a number of people say the same thing. Part of the problem is I was forced to design for a ten foot UI model, which means you can see the screen from ten feet away and still have full information. This is important for live musicians who want to roam around the stage. However, when you're looking at it straight on, it looks somewhat bland. One of my future design thoughts was to break apart the UI from the main engine. This would allow people to 'skin' the app as they see fit and attach that to the main engine.

Unfortunately, for both the sync feature and the UI skinning, I do not have the time to code these in.

Brian

This application doesn't seem to be that interesting in the current version. These features have been around for awhile.

That's funny afro, because that's exactly how I feel about your attempts at a synth. I guess we all have our own opinions.

As for this application, keep up the good work, and thank you for making it free. We can see your not motivated by money like *cough* some developers.

I think you have a great start to something that is missing in the world of live performances. Controlling the environment (lights, sound, etc) would only add to the unique and creative experience that an artist may have. Something you probably can improvise on a lot and create a totally one of a kind experience. Not like music by numbers or doing the same old routine or performance over and over.

Again keep up the great work and thanks!

Peace.

Quote:

If I ever coded Rewire (or some other form of sync) into my app, then that would truly give the best of both worlds. One musician could be on Live, one on Computer Jockeys, and then bands could come up with new scenarios that I have never dreamed of.

I think this is the key here. that would be sick I'm sure all kinds of electronic acts would jump on this and it would totally bring them into the 'band' realm, which we all know of course is the deepest fantasy of the electronic artist. to be weilding sequences and audio with the flexibility that one weilds a guitar.

seriously though, you've got something there, it might be worth making the time.

thenumber23 wrote:

I took a quick look at the FL Studio SDK. While anything is technically possible, this would require a large amount of code to turn Computer Jockeys into an FL generator or effect.

Too bad, that might have been cool. I wonder if the folks at ImageLine (i.e., the Fruity people) would be interested in picking up the ball??

I also wonder if Arkaos VJ rewired to FLP would perform a similar function?

atomic_afro wrote:

These days, a live electronic show has to hold it's own not against DJs, who are something different than live musicians, but real bands who spend years crafting their skills as live musicians.

I think the question of constitutes a 'live' electronic performance needs to be addressed.
The problem is that alot of electronic 'musicians' don't know shit about music. Without their sample & loop CDs they would be shit-up-a-creek. So the thought of them "jamming", i.e. playing an instrument for real, is almost a non-issue.

Watch DJ's perform...hell, they are back there behind the decks glazing over and tweaking at their damn mixer like they were performing neuron surgery but as soon as a cute girl walks by the booth they drop the "working" act real quick and start chatting her up and the CD just keeps on spinning... just high-paid CD switchers for the most part.

So what kind of a performance would a person have to put on 'live' to really make it worth watching some dude up there going at it in a way which was electronic and yet organic and damn cool at the same time??

I think the question of constitutes a 'live' electronic performance needs to be addressed.
The problem is that alot of electronic 'musicians' don't know shit about music. Without their sample & loop CDs they would be shit-up-a-creek. So the thought of them "jamming", i.e. playing an instrument for real, is almost a non-issue.

A better word might be performer/artist. Not musican/band. This kind of act would be a unique experience, like giving the DJ control of the entire room's environment. From lighting, lasers, play back video, loops, mixes, keyboard, samples, etc., all from the palm of his/her hand. Walking free amongst the crowd, rather then restricted to the booth.

Watch DJ's perform...hell, they are back there behind the decks glazing over and tweaking at their damn mixer like they were performing neuron surgery but as soon as a cute girl walks by the booth they drop the "working" act real quick and start chatting her up and the CD just keeps on spinning... just high-paid CD switchers for the most part.

There are all kinds of DJs. This application would also allow the DJ to follow the so called "cute girl" to where ever while continuing to mix over a cocktail.

So what kind of a performance would a person have to put on 'live' to really make it worth watching some dude up there going at it in a way which was electronic and yet organic and damn cool at the same time??

We our only limited to our imaginations.
Peace.

<ex3> wrote:

There are all kinds of DJs. This application would also allow the DJ to follow the so called "cute girl" to where ever while continuing to mix over a cocktail.

My friend... Now, as they say, we are talkin'!!

sdv wrote:

So what kind of a performance would a person have to put on 'live' to really make it worth watching some dude up there going at it in a way which was electronic and yet organic and damn cool at the same time??

Ok, I've answered my own question.
DJ is "Johhny Fever" 70s.
Mixing/scratching is 80s.
Loops and Triggering is 90s (look at Arakos website to see all the peerformances they did back then).
Live electronica hit it's peak a few years back with the Goa scene I think. I saw some great shows where performers brought in lots of their own gear and really worked with the audience to make it fun. Several times in fact I had scene performers let the audience tweak some knobs or play on a theramin-type device.

And that brings up my answer... people want to be empowered these days and the next wave of entertainment is entertaining ourselves... let the audience be the mixmaster!!

When I go to clubs these days I see more ppl text messaging each other than dancing with each other. People want to use technology themselves... not watch others use it... kinda of like sex.

I've seen many examples of this from past performances I've given and was reminded of it this past weekend when some friends came over to see me work in MetaSynth. I use a wacom pad to draw my filters and such in MS and my friends just lost it... they thought it was just so off-the-hook, and these are some tech-savvy dudes. They grabbed up my tablet and started playing with it themselves... they loved it.

The thing I liked best about Brian's app was it 'grid' system. I could see a tool whereby a artist could walk around a chillroom with a wireless wacom pad and then trigger, or let others trigger, an entire performance off of a grid template. Whatever the interface it needs to be easy to use (think a monkey high on paint fumes easy).

I'd love to see a simple grid like that integrated in FL Studio which could switch patterns (and each pattern could be Rewired up to other tools like eXT and Arkaos).

Hell... make a little Palm app w/grid and control it all via infrared!! Have a LCD display at various chill pods and let the people work the grid themselves. Hell, someone's probably already thought of and implemented this in Flash as we speak... probably activated by cell-phone no less.

How about a grid based tool which worked over TCP/IP... run a chillroom set from another country!!

Hello. sdv, you have some great comments! If I were to implement clicking the boxes in the UI to act like a MIDI controller, then someone on a laptop (via touchscreen), Tablet PC, or PocketPC to control the performance via wireless (ideally through remote desktop). Then, the musician can go into the audience and allow what you suggest.

The neat thing is besides the cost of the off-the-shelf hardware, there would be no additional purchases or requirements to pull this off. The only downside to wireless is the dynamic amount of latency (varying up to 500ms) to act on each click. Fortunately, since every clip is quantized to the nearest pre-determined boundary, it would never sound bad, maybe just later than expected.

On another note, I don't have the latest version of Arkaos that supports Rewire. I would assume it would expose MIDI ports, so if FLStudio supports Rewire, then you would be able to trigger video clips from within FLStudio (or any other Rewire app).

Brian

thenumber23 wrote:

On another note, I don't have the latest version of Arkaos that supports Rewire. I would assume it would expose MIDI ports, so if FLStudio supports Rewire, then you would be able to trigger video clips from within FLStudio (or any other Rewire app).Brian

Hey Brian,

Haven't checked this thread for awhile but it sounds liek this might be doable? I don't have the latest Arkaos either (just 2.2) but perhaps the two could still talk viz MIDIYoke?? I think I'll check this out.

So what would be the next steps to make this thing wireless?

Best,
Scott

Hi Scott.

Quote:

Perhaps [FL Studio and Arkaos] could still talk via MIDIYoke?

Yes, I would assume that would be possible.

Quote:

So what would be the next steps to make [Computer Jockeys] wireless?

I can think of a few solutions. One is what I plan to do soon, which is have a wireless MIDI pack (MIDIMan TransMIDI) so my MIDI controller can control the PC wirelessly. This works today, and since there's no need for mouse or PC keyboard, there would never be a need to be near 'home base.'

Another is if I was to code in the ability to click on-screen buttons with the mouse and have those transmit the equivalent MIDI note, then you could control the app from mouse or TabletPC pen or screen digitizer or even a PocketPC. That, combined with a wireless protocol like 802.11b and remote computing (terminal server), you'd really be able to walk into the audience with any type of portable PC and control the entire performance from wherever you are.

Cool huh?

While I don't have time to code this in right now, I would be willing to in the future if someone was going to use the app live. Heck, with just a little more time, I'd code in direct WAV file playback so creating new songs would be a breeze

Brian

Hey Brian,

thenumber23 wrote:

I can think of a few solutions.

Those options do sound *very* cool indeed!!
I definetly am interested in the continual pursuit of this.
Next step here is the FLS to Arkaos hookup? Or maybe even an eXT to Arkaos hookup. I'm stoked!!

Wow! I downloaded today and just went through a bit of the manual. This program looks great. Thanks! More feedback when I get it tamed.

does CJ have anything to do with this:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/strea m/hh/stream/avsover_cd833956-4045-4fef-988d-7164b2cc054b.xml.asp

Quote:

does CJ have anything to do with this: (Microsoft URL)

No, CJ uses DirectMusic (a DirectX component). I believe the DirectMusic software synthesizer uses some of the files mentioned in that link, but it's not really related.

Thanks,
Brian

Hi Brian,

I've played with CJ a little today and have some questions:


1) There are several types of 'LiveGroups; is that something the programmer can specify in a template, to add/subtract groups?
// LiveGroup=VOCALS, FX, DRUMS, COMPING, GUITAR, BASS

2) Can you explain what each of these lines does & how the Live_Object is tied to an approriate key:
/*
[LiveObject_50]
Type=LiveSegment
Filename=Fly BASS 1.sgt
LiveGroup=BASS
ExclusiveChannel=130
*/

3) How do you tie video into this... let's say with Arkaos?

Thanks... Scott

Hi Scott. It sounds like you're getting into it. Cool! I'll have to write more docs soon. If you tell me what kind of songs you'd like to create (loop based, Mixman based, or MIDI file based), I can create docs that focus on those areas.

Quote:

1) There are several types of 'LiveGroups; is that something the programmer can specify in a template, to add/subtract groups? // LiveGroup=VOCALS, FX, DRUMS, COMPING, GUITAR, BASS

The set of LiveGroups is predefined, and the complete list is defined in chapter 4 (page 19, I believe). The LiveGroup name is mapped to a number between 0 and 128, but it would be best to use the defined names, as the actual mapping could be changed in the future. In code I can add or subtract groups, but the end user cannot do so at this time.

A LiveGroup is only a reference name and does not need to directly describe the actual loop. So, you could use the DRUMS LiveGroup for a guitar part. Why might this be desired? If you wanted to do an action such as ACTIONTYPE_MUTE_LIVEGROUP you'd get control over which loops are assigned to that group.

Quote:

2) Can you explain what each of these lines does & how the Live_Object is tied to an appropriate key: /* [LiveObject_50] Type=LiveSegment Filename=Fly BASS 1.sgt LiveGroup=BASS ExclusiveChannel=130 */

A LiveObject is the basic loop type. At this time, the only Type is a LiveSegment. This is most similar to a MIDI file, with the advantage of choosing the samples to be associated with each channel in the MIDI file. SGT files can emulate REX/RX2 files too. In the future, I could see adding LiveWave for direct WAV file support.

The number (_50) corresponds to the MIDI key that triggers it. So, for example, _36 would be C3, _50 would be D4. There's a helper lookup table in Chapter 4 on page 18/19. Actually, it can optionally be a little deeper than that. The Brief workflow description on page 8 describes the actual flow from MIDI key pressed to LiveObject triggered.

The Filename is the actual file that will get triggered. These files are located in .\CJ_Content_Folder\Playlists\SongSet01. The SGT file is a DirectMusic "Segment" filetype. To create these files, you need the DirectX SDK or optionally just the DirectMusic Producer package. These are free downloads.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/downloads/list/dire ctx.asp

I believe DirectMusic Producer is in the "DirectX 9.0 SDK Update (Summer 2003) Extras" package, which is 1/2 way down that webpage.

Note that SGT files can reference other files, most notably DLS files, which are industry standard (but seldom used) Downloadable Sample files. That's why you see a bunch of DLS files in the same directory as the SGT files. For reference, DLS files are similar to SoundFont (SF2) files and the two can be converted back and forth with a utility such as Awave.

I mentioned LiveGroup above. This line is optional, but useful for both description of the loop and also grouping loops together if you wanted to, say, mute all the drums with one MIDI key.

Any time an ExclusiveChannel is set for a LiveObject, only one LiveObject of that exclusive channel may play at a time. It's similar to how a closed hi-hat can stop the open hi-hat sample, but on a loop level. This is important for a few things. One, if you have similar basslines but only one should ever play at a time, you'd set the two loops to be on the same exclusive channel. This way, the app will only play one at a time, and the musician never needs to think about the issue while playing live.

Also, when triggering lighting or video clips, you generally only want one such loop playing at a time. Otherwise, such patterns would conflict and cause the lights to go crazy (but not in a good way).

One last important factor: When the exclusive channel is between 1 and 128, the 'exclusivity' is fixed between songs. Something turning on in a new song will turn off something playing in the previous song on the same exclusive channel (ideal for lighting patterns). When the exclusive channel is between 129 and 256, the 'exclusivity' is independent between songs. Something turning on in a new song will NOT turn off something playing in the previous song even if it's set to the same exclusive channel number.

Quote:

3) How do you tie video into this... let's say with Arkaos?

Video clips are triggered with the same LiveSegments that can trigger audio (or lighting) loops. The difference is the LiveSegment is mapped to a physical MIDI port instead of the software synthesizer. I then connect a physical MIDI cable between the CJ computer and the video computer running Arkaos. Theoretically this could all be done on one computer with a virtual MIDI cable, but my testing has shown that Arkaos and CJ don't behave nicely when running simultaneously on the same computer.

I've generally used Sonar to create the video MIDI clips, then I convert them to SGT files in DirectMusic Producer and assign their MIDI port there. What I've generally done in CJ is assign lights to OUT_1 and video to OUT_2 (as defined in CJ_Preferences.ini in the MIDIPorts area).

One last thing with video. While you could have a video clip assigned to a MIDI key, that wouldn't be fun for two reasons. First, you'd have to trigger the video separate from the audio (and possibly the lights), and second, you'd waste a MIDI key on your keyboard for a video clip. That's where the concept of LiveEvents comes into full effect. One LiveEvent can trigger a lighting pattern, video clip pattern, and a bunch of audio loops. And, a single MIDI key can trigger a LiveEvent. This is where the musician gets full show control without having to think or hunt and peck for the right MIDI keys to trigger all the show elements.

Thanks,
Brian