I have recently bought Cameleon5000, Rhino2, the Dash bundle, EnergyXT, BFD, SS1 Group Buy. I own a few other plugs and have a fair amount of free plugs. Especially concerning the excellent synths I have recently bought I do not fully understand what they can do. I love tinkering with them but have not even remotely tapped their power. I now find myself considering the zeta and wusikstation group buys. For a long time I have wanted zeta and I really like what Wusikstation can do. I don't even know if I really need them to fullfill a missing link in the synths I have.

Do you think I need them. Do you think my music can benefit from them. Do you think I am an idiot for considering spending lots more money just to have a different plugin that makes similar sounds anyway.



And one more thing. Can anyone explain how it is that zeta or rhino or any other synth manages to make different sounds to each other even when using the same basic waveform. For example it seems to me that rhino using a sine wave should sound the same as zeta using a sine wave. Is that not correct.

you are of course sick and adddicted. welcome to the club! the only thing that does suprise me, is that with the list you have given and all the money you have spent, you really don't have zeta yet! but it sounds like you will soon keep on spending, enjoy, fuck learning every single synth, rhino and zeta and camelon are quite capable just from presets, learn some of the simpler ones instead.

Glad to hear you say that. One of things I have been saying to myself to try and justify another purchase is that even if I only use the included and user patches it will be worth the purchase.

Now any tips on how to tell my girlfriend?

morelia wrote:

Glad to hear you say that. One of things I have been saying to myself to try and justify another purchase is that even if I only use the included and user patches it will be worth the purchase. Now any tips on how to tell my girlfriend?

well i always live by this rule: music first, then sleep, then food, then girlfriends so i'm probably not the best person to ask. honestly if i had the choice of never being able to write music again or never having sex or a girlfriend again, i'd choose not to have the latter.

morelia wrote:

And one more thing. Can anyone explain how it is that zeta or rhino or any other synth manages to make different sounds to each other even when using the same basic waveform. For example it seems to me that rhino using a sine wave should sound the same as zeta using a sine wave. Is that not correct.

For the most part waveforms should sound very similar. Its when you factor in the filters, FM, envelopes etc. where these synths differ.

Sine waves especially should sound the same...

About your 'problem' with buying synths. I would say 'go for it!' as long as you are relatively productive as far as making music. If you are getting bogged down messing with your synths, downloading presets - then maybe take a break and take stock of what kind of music you are trying to make, and how best to produce it.

It's probably best also to not buy any hardware synths....

Highly addictive

Quote:

well i always live by this rule: music first, then sleep, then food, then girlfriends

OK you win. Now that's sick. Although I must admit to running a fine line between too much time in front of the computer and not enough with the girlfriend.

Quote:

For the most part waveforms should sound very similar. Its when you factor in the filters, FM, envelopes etc. where these synths differ.

Ahh I see. So there could be quite a rational justification for buying zeta.

I noticed ttoz that you were surprised I don't have it already. Is that because you think it is the best or just that it fits well into the range I already have?

Mystahr wrote:

It's probably best also to not buy any hardware synths.... Highly addictive

I think I am safe there. Generally to expensive for me. That is why I am so eager when these group buys come up. Ordinarily I would not be able to afford zeta but at the potential group buy price I have to look at it as an opportuniy that should be taken seriously.

Plus I lived with my band for about 4 years and there was an M1, ASR10, RolandJP8 (I think) and DW8000 in the house. I am completely happy with the software alternatives.

morelia wrote:

I noticed ttoz that you were surprised I don't have it already. Is that because you think it is the best or just that it fits well into the range I already have?

it fits well. i think if someone just has to have only two synths in their entire collection, they should be zeta and rhino. you use zeta for all your synth basses, leads and synth chords and arpeggios and rhino for all your ambiences and fm. covers everything really. so good at doing totally different things those two are.

Quote:

you use zeta for all your synth basses, leads and synth chords and arpeggios and rhino for all your ambiences and fm. covers everything really. so good at doing totally different things those two are.

Glad to hear someone saying that. I was thinking that Rhino really excels in the ambience dept. but that zeta seems to be a synth that can make a good impression of a lot of other synths.

morelia wrote:

Do you think I am an idiot

yes.

Quote:

And one more thing. Can anyone explain how it is that zeta or rhino or any other synth manages to make different sounds to each other even when using the same basic waveform.

What I see is that different synths have strengths and weaknesses so whilst the building blocks may appear similar, one will be easier to get good bass sounds from whilst another may excel with screaming leads or whatever. But at the end of the day you should be able to get very similar sounds out of any of them if you are willing to put in the time.

morelia wrote:

I have recently bought Cameleon5000, Rhino2, the Dash bundle, EnergyXT, BFD, SS1 Group Buy. I own a few other plugs and have a fair amount of free plugs. Especially concerning the excellent synths I have recently bought I do not fully understand what they can do. I love tinkering with them but have not even remotely tapped their power. I now find myself considering the zeta and wusikstation group buys. For a long time I have wanted zeta and I really like what Wusikstation can do. I don't even know if I really need them to fullfill a missing link in the synths I have. Do you think I need them. Do you think my music can benefit from them. Do you think I am an idiot for considering spending lots more money just to have a different plugin that makes similar sounds anyway. And one more thing. Can anyone explain how it is that zeta or rhino or any other synth manages to make different sounds to each other even when using the same basic waveform. For example it seems to me that rhino using a sine wave should sound the same as zeta using a sine wave. Is that not correct.

Just don't spend money you can't afford to, this is an addiction for many of us. We have step meetings here every Friday night at 9 pm. seriously though if you can afford it why not but if you can't just save your money because they will still be here.

Zeta has maybe a thousand or more presets, and hundreds of arps, which makes it great territory for exploring at the touch of a button.

And of course, you get fr4nceso's Virus Zeta and Muzeum for free.

I just got a controller keyboard which makes soft synth playing double the fun, so maybe consider that too if you haven't already got one.

Eeh ... there's no end to this synth business.

of course this is an addiction!
I had finally gotten to the point where I realized that I do not need anything else, then along came these damn group buys.
As long as you can afford them though, go for it!
I tell myself it's cheaper than taking up golf

your not sick
seems like you just have a shitload of cash

kevvvvv wrote:

Zeta has maybe a thousand or more presets, and hundreds of arps

You say that like its a good thing!?!

Well, it's either this (music) or spend your money on something like beer... so, with music, you'll have something to show for your time... while the other, a lot of piss, and a headache say, do you have a wife? that sort of changes things...

DHR53 wrote:

Well, it's either this (music) or spend your money on something like beer... so, with music, you'll have something to show for your time... while the other, a lot of piss, and a headache say, do you have a wife? that sort of changes things...

heh good point

Girlfriends are always first here......otherwise I would have no one to listen to my music.....lol

BONES wrote:

kevvvvv wrote: Zeta has maybe a thousand or more presets, and hundreds of arps You say that like its a good thing!?!

it's not if your trademark is that your tunes all sound the same

First, you aren't addicted as long as you can afford (comfortably--as in not using the rent money) what you buy. If you want to sink 90% of you disposable income into software.... go for it!!

I have a couple of synths that I really turn to and use lots (Albino2, Atmosphere and several of the ones you mention) while other sit in a list and are often untapped. That is okay with me. I have some books I havn't read yet either..... every now and then I grab one and read. I have fun getting a new synth, exploring it a bit, looking at the manual. Every now and again, I grab something new and use it to "get the juices going." There is pleasure in just getting it and messing with it a bit. There are very few that I am sorry I purchased.

Enjoy them!

I'd say that each synth has at least a song in it. Like Neil Young said (I think it was N.Y.), that every guitar has a song in it, meaning that there's something about the playability, tone, or whatever of each instrument that will inspire you in a different direction for a while. This seems to be true.

Maybe buy one at a time and space out your purchases so that you don't get overwhelmed or wasteful.

BONES wrote:

kevvvvv wrote: Zeta has maybe a thousand or more presets, and hundreds of arps You say that like its a good thing!?!

Not to be too harsh, but I've tried all of your synths and listened to the examples of music on your website, and while I applaud your efforts to be NIN, I really don't understand why you think two-oscillator synths that come with few presets are instantly superior to synths that allow one to draw their own waveforms, load waveforms, and generally control every aspect of a sound using time-based properties like an lfo -- all while providing tons of usable starting points of the latter.

I'll be even more impressed if you can take this mild critical observation/question without turning it into a pissing contest.

... simple sounds mixed together artfully are less likely to be recognized as one of those big presets from the (fill in the blank) synths...

DHR53 wrote:

... simple sounds mixed together artfully are less likely to be recognized as one of those big presets from the (fill in the blank) synths...

maybe that's true but it kinda depends on your target audience - the vast majority of listeners won't know what 'z3ta+' or whatever is anyway. I think I know my stuff, but I have yet to listen to a CD and go 'ooh that's a Reaktor preset'...

BONES wrote:

kevvvvv wrote: Zeta has maybe a thousand or more presets, and hundreds of arps You say that like its a good thing!?!

um, yes. especially cause at least half of them are great.

BONES wrote:

But at the end of the day you should be able to get very similar sounds out of any of them if you are willing to put in the time.

what utter bullshit. I was waiting for you to jump into this thread . There are a few whcih can be tweaked similar and have their likeness of course but there are plenty which have a signature sound and no matter what you do, you can only get that sound on that particular synth.

Shane

Quote:

I'd say that each synth has at least a song in it.

So true ... but it gets a bit expensive if guitars are your thing

I noticed your unusual choice of synths in the revent fave synth thread. Says it all now

morelia wrote:

Do you think I need them.

"need"?...no.

Quote:

Do you think my music can benefit from them.

that is something that only you can know.

if you find the demo's to be inspirational enough that they honestly make you want to write songs with them, then yes...they could potentially bennifit your music, even if only by having inspired you to write.

if you have the money to buy them, you enjoy having them around, and you think you'll spend many hours just screwing with them even though they may never find their way into a song...then imho, entertainment can be a valid justification all its own. practicality and fun dont always have to go hand in hand.

but if you are buying them simply because they sound kinda cool and you think that mabey one day you just might find a use for them, but more likely they'll just sit around in your vst folder unused...then the purchase is harder to justify.

Quote:

Do you think I am an idiot for considering spending lots more money just to have a different plugin that makes similar sounds anyway.

an idiot?...no.
an addict?...yes...and you'll find that many of us here are.
god knows i am.

-ugo

kevvvvv wrote:

Shane Quote: I'd say that each synth has at least a song in it. So true ... but it gets a bit expensive if guitars are your thing I noticed your unusual choice of synths in the revent fave synth thread. Says it all now

Do you happen to have that thread link handy? I don't recall posting to it, but I'd be curious to read the thread. My memory is quite bad, though.

HI

Having been through (and hopefully come out the other side) the addictive/hoarding/want everything phase of buying software I have come to a couple of conclusions, that are relative TO ME -

#Why did I buy so many synths when MY music is NOT synth driven!

#Did I honestly believe that I would ever do any more than scratch the surface of pretty well EVERYTHING SOFTWARE that I had - with SO MUCH?

#How did I not notice my credit card balance going into DEEP RED?

#Buying the higher end software (be it host, sampler or synth)generally was a better bet than buying 3 or 4 cheaper programs, in the hope that what they individually lacked could be made up for with sheer quantity.

#Did my buying ever really reflect what I needed to compose/produce/mix/master the type of music I had intended to make?

Thease are a few things that I have found out about MY OWN over-indulgence, but it is so easy to loose focus on the music and get bogged down in the tools, which are important but only ever a means to an end.

Just as many of us made music in a very different way ten or twenty years ago so we will also have to RADICALLY change in how we make music in the future -I want to try to hold onto that thought the next time I get the urge to buy another synth that I will probably never use in my compositions other than to tinker with for fun!

Flipper.

ugo wrote:

if you have the money to buy them, you enjoy having them around, and you think you'll spend many hours just screwing with them even though they may never find their way into a song...then imho, entertainment can be a valid justification all its own. practicality and fun dont always have to go hand in hand.

Great points, ugo...

That's something my brother has to justify. He's a classic tweaker, enjoys different synth architectures, and just loves twiddling the synths all day (did so with hardware, too: Kawai K5000!). He approaches Reaktor like a video game: if he has some time, then he'll sit down for an hour or two any play!

In that respect, he believes that he's got his money worth (not to mention all the free synths and demos he plays with: no lack of those!). But he also admits that one of his goals to to actually write *music*, and all the toys wind up distracting him. Option anxiety can be crippling!

We're going to start a new collaborative project soon, based on a limited equipment set. We can use SONAR 3 Pro and all its effects, Ohm Force FX (which we both have), sfz and free SoundFonts, and Wusikstation (which I bought licenses for both of use). Oh, and we're still working towards a drum sampler pick: probably liqih's upcoming soft, or DR-008.

At any rate, we're excited about the *limited* possibilities, as it makes us have to get more out of one main synth. The constraint becomes a challenge and forces us to dig deeper into the programming and really learn the instrument. Which brings me to a point...

The more synths you have, the more shallow of your understanding of how they actually work. Which means you'll primarily be using presets (which in turn makes it more likely that you'll sound like other musicians, if you care for that or not). Of course, some people have the knack for knowing many synths intimately, but most people just don't have the time when they just want to write a tune.

At the very least, you should be aware of your goals and judge whether the new purchase will get you closer to your goal. In my case, I have problems with ugo says as "maybe one day I just might find a use for it", but with graphics and video software *especially* when a cheap deal comes along. For instance, I'll upgrade my 3D package consistently, even though I haven't used it more than an hour since last upgrade...

- m

Quote:

Virus Zeta and Muzeum

That looks interesting. Don't know what they are but I'll check them out.

Way too much in there to comment on it all but there is some sound (no pun) advice. I think buying another synth is for me like someone else buying a set of golf clubs as someone in here said. Although I already have a set of clubs. Music is unfortunatley for me more a hobby than a profession. I love tinkering with new technology and I think that as I don't spend money on drugs or alcahol this is a small price for entertainment. Especially at group buy price. And there seems to be general agreement on the fact that zeta is a worthwhile purchase.