Just read the review of M42 Nebula by BONES. You are developing very good SE VSTis for free (BONES, thank you very much for this), but is it really necessary to write such a bad review, only because a SE creation is commercially sold and is getting so much attention? I think nobody is forced to buy it and if people like one synth more than other synths - well ..., that´s life and a matter of taste.

I wouldn't say it was a bad review, just a refreshingly honest opinion, rather than the wonderlust of 'I've got a new toy' gushing that we usually see. BONES' review was the first and last review I have read in ages, and I only read it 'cos I knew it would be honest and entertaining...

not sure if its honest cypher,even now many people including myself still use m42 beyond its honeymoon period.what bones fails to realise is not everyone is into the same stuff as him.he wrote a review without actually owning the product either so in that case his review should be removed

In a word, no. Do I have an issue with people charging decent money for something developed on beta software? Hell yes! Tooltips are a great example. Another will be what happens to version 1 patches when version 2 is released.
In fact, my biggest beef is that, unlike the other synths I mentioned in the review, it has the same bog-standard SE sound that my synths do. If other SE users can find ways of making their filters sound different [in a good way, not simply for the sake of being different] and either give them away or sell them for a very reasonable price, then something like M42 Nebula is not going to stack up.
I give my synths away for a number of reasons, one being that I don't think they are worth paying for, given that they use standard elements that anyone could put together for themselves and because of the aforementioned status of SE. Still, they are infinitely more flexible, hopefully making them ultimately more useful, than M42. If I had a need of ugo's Texture or EVM's Ultrasonique I would happily pay a reasonable price [less than the cost of SE]. If I had a need for M42, I'd build it myself in about an hour.

The other side of the coin is that the developers actually appreciated getting some useful feedback instead of the usual gushing krap that flies around this place.

bone's review was honest, but it was hardly any revaltion to me. would anybody expect him to like it? A space synth? fuck no. Since M42 is such a genre related synth, I don't understand why bones even took the time to download it.
Granted, the boy knows what he likes..
I wonder if he's tried chameleon?

BONES wrote:

In a word, no. Do I have an issue with people charging decent money for something developed on beta software? Hell yes! Tooltips are a great example. Another will be what happens to version 1 patches when version 2 is released. In fact, my biggest beef is that, unlike the other synths I mentioned in the review, it has the same bog-standard SE sound that my synths do. If other SE users can find ways of making their filters sound different [in a good way, not simply for the sake of being different] and either give them away or sell them for a very reasonable price, then something like M42 Nebula is not going to stack up. I give my synths away for a number of reasons, one being that I don't think they are worth paying for, given that they use standard elements that anyone could put together for themselves and because of the aforementioned status of SE. Still, they are infinitely more flexible, hopefully making them ultimately more useful, than M42. If I had a need of ugo's Texture or EVM's Ultrasonique I would happily pay a reasonable price [less than the cost of SE]. If I had a need for M42, I'd build it myself in about an hour. The other side of the coin is that the developers actually appreciated getting some useful feedback instead of the usual gushing krap that flies around this place.

I reckon thats a bunch of bullshit. I don't believe you could build an M42 clone in an hour.

I actually agree with you about the beta status of synthedit, you may have read my posts in the past about potential support isses (superwave anyone?!).

Sorry bones mate, but you do have a habit of coming across as sounding a bit bitter or jealous, perhaps of the money being made by other devs. I myself wish i was making money from synthedit, but unfortunately i'm shite at it You could probably sell your stuff though bones, make a few quid if you needed.

I'm with you though, support will always be an issue with beta software, and bluntly with synthedit there wil always be inherent support problems. If i make and sell a synth that uses a 3rd party module, then find that the 3rd party module has a bug, what the fuck can i do about it? Answer: nothing.

Jesus i just went right off on a tangent there. Sorry.

Just amazed these issues haven't been discussed in depth. or that i haven't found that thread if it exists. I might start one.

I think the review was honest (which I like, there's too much butt kissing going on here anyways, which is true for the reviews section as well), yet a tad too much biased.

BONES actually is correct when mentioning that the used M42 elements are nothing else but standard (at least they sound like it as soon as you turn the effects down), just a tad more flexible perhaps (but that doesn't change the basic, rather "mediocre" sound - don't get me wrong, "mediocre" doesn't necessarily equal "bad").

So, this part of the review was honest and correct IMO.

I do however think that M42 should be reviewed as what it is - a synth capable of doing some rather nice spheric sounds, coming with a bunch of great presets, serving exactly this sort of purpose.
Yes, you can defenitely get the same (or pretty much similar) results when running other SE creations (even free ones) through a bunch of effects (even free ones), but that's not the same, as you can't save complete banks that way.
And, as said, IMO it's the combination of synth, effects and presets that is sold with M42 - regarding this, I think it's got a fine price/performance tag.

Maybe Ugo's Texture is as good, I'm gonna check it out today (almost forgot about it).
That *might* change my opinion a bit.

vurt wrote:

not sure if its honest cypher,even now many people including myself still use m42 beyond its honeymoon period.what bones fails to realise is not everyone is into the same stuff as him.he wrote a review without actually owning the product either so in that case his review should be removed

hmmm, maybe I'm biased too then, 'cos M42 left me cold, but to each their own I guess.

quincy wrote:

... Just amazed these issues haven't been discussed in depth. or that i haven't found that thread if it exists. I might start one.

It has been discussed before. At least, people try to discuss the shortcomings of SynthEdit in its beta form. The problem is that fanatics like Bones and others here always get defensive and spiteful when someone criticizes SynthEdit. It is hard to discuss the problem of loosing patches after an update or the somewhat dull sound when people take those criticisms as a personnel attack and respond in a personnel manner.

Robert

vurt wrote:

he wrote a review without actually owning the product either so in that case his review should be removed

The problem with that is that no-one, except an idiot, would ever give anything a bad review, would they? I had M42 in my VSTi folder for several weeks and kept coming back to it to see what it was I wasn't getting. To my ears it suffers from the exact things that SE gets critised for most, yet the latest review says it will be the breakthrough SE synth. I still don't geddit and that has nothing to do with the style of music that it's geared towards. Its all about the things I said before.
bluedad, of course I've tried Chameleon, it lasted about 2 minutes! Surely I am capable of appreciating something on its merits? After all, I hardly have any use for Texture or Ultrasonique either [although in the latter's case I could find a use because it is very, very nice]. I made it very clear that my impressions on the presets were personal and I tried to give a fair comparison for anyone who doesn't know me [Jarre, Vangelis].

In a lot of ways I think M42 is exactly the kind of thing that should be done with SE, it's targeted at one thing and tries to do it better than anything else. That is just what I have tried to do with my synths. I just think it falls short of the mark. OTOH, I don't think it deserves the continued bashing that defending my review forces upon me so this will be my last comment on M42 Nebula.















Maybe.

there's a whorehouse in a southern district of acapulco.

young americans, fully drunk because of fight drinking and
overall 'group shit-being' at the beach, tend to enter this catwalk
on their way home. it's just 50 bucks.

smart mexican whores (in fact they're international)
lose no time, clamp them cocks between the legs, shake
their tuned boobs and chafe like a hurricane. it's just
5 minutes.

young americans, fully released, romanticize on their way home.
"50 bucks for an adult fuck. Without condoms!"


conclusio: there are situations where skilled whores earn 50 bucks with ancient tricks only.

BONES wrote:

of course I've tried Chameleon, it lasted about 2 minutes!.

why am I not surprised!

HI

I don't think the comment about 'Being at beta stage' is particularly fair, look at US - it seems to me that nearly EVERY program we buy has not been put through a proper beta/evaluation - there are people still carping on about not having (for instance) full midi implementation in Cubase!

When I first came here some of the 'Vet's' would make underhand remarks about newbies writing reviews - so it is an area of contention; the two things I don't appreciate in a review is 1) it being so short as to not really cover the relative points and 2) unneccessary personal agendas coming through - reviews (and I am no expert) should be informative (be it good or bad) and point out how well an application might work for it's end user - not how badly they work FOR THE REVIEWER!

Flipper.

original flipper wrote:

I don't think the comment about 'Being at beta stage' is particularly fair

It is in relation to the review. I bagged them for not taking the time to type tooltips. They informed me that they didn't because tooltips were being phased out. The reality is that Jeff hasn't got around to making tooltips possible for the new-style controls yet [the main reason I don't use them] so a basic feature is missing because SE isn't finished yet. End of story.

So by 'some developers' does the original poster just mean BONES.

Or are there actually other developers in question, rather than somone just rehashing this review again, despite it already having been done elsewhere recently?

whyterabbyt wrote:

So by 'some developers' does the original poster just mean BONES. Or are there actually other developers in question, rather than somone just rehashing this review again, despite it already having been done elsewhere recently?

beating dead horses is a specialty around these parts

opiadream wrote:

whyterabbyt wrote: So by 'some developers' does the original poster just mean BONES. Or are there actually other developers in question, rather than somone just rehashing this review again, despite it already having been done elsewhere recently? beating dead horses is a specialty around these parts

they dont hit back

opiadream wrote:

whyterabbyt wrote: So by 'some developers' does the original poster just mean BONES. Or are there actually other developers in question, rather than somone just rehashing this review again, despite it already having been done elsewhere recently? beating up on bones is a specialty around these parts

bluedad wrote:

opiadream wrote: whyterabbyt wrote: So by 'some developers' does the original poster just mean BONES. Or are there actually other developers in question, rather than somone just rehashing this review again, despite it already having been done elsewhere recently? beating up on bones is a specialty around these parts YOU GOT THAT RIGHT MO FO

opiadream wrote:

bluedad wrote: opiadream wrote: whyterabbyt wrote: So by 'some developers' does the original poster just mean BONES. Or are there actually other developers in question, rather than somone just rehashing this review again, despite it already having been done elsewhere recently? beating up on bones is a specialty around these parts YOU GOT THAT RIGHT MO FO I SAY WE BEAT THAT MUTHA FUCKA DOWN RIGHT NOW

vurt wrote:

opiadream wrote: bluedad wrote: opiadream wrote: whyterabbyt wrote: So by 'some developers' does the original poster just mean BONES. Or are there actually other developers in question, rather than somone just rehashing this review again, despite it already having been done elsewhere recently? beating up on bones is a specialty around these parts YOU GOT THAT RIGHT MO FO I SAY WE BEAT THAT MUTHA FUCKA DOWN RIGHT NOW STOP PICKIN ON MY MAN! BOTH OF YOU

opiadream wrote:

vurt wrote: opiadream wrote: bluedad wrote: opiadream wrote: whyterabbyt wrote: So by 'some developers' does the original poster just mean BONES. Or are there actually other developers in question, rather than somone just rehashing this review again, despite it already having been done elsewhere recently? beating up on bones is a specialty around these parts YOU GOT THAT RIGHT MO FO I SAY WE BEAT THAT MUTHA FUCKA DOWN RIGHT NOW STOP PICKIN ON MY MAN! BOTH OF YOU got nothing to say, just jumping on the quoting bandwagon

Bones, make sure to mark you displeasure with my review. That way everyone will know you didn't agree.

To any other extent I'm uninvolved with this waste of time. You are right, I do feel this is more of a break through than superwave. I like how superwave sounds but it goes past a price point that I'm comfortable with.

There aren't many synths that sound like M42 Nebula which has been on my synth for some time now waiting a real review. Rather than get into what individuals think about selling SE synths I'll put more stock in Jeff's opinion. He's the one that has the right to say how his software is used. I'll make sure to ask in the interview we're doing.

farlukar wrote:

opiadream wrote: vurt wrote: opiadream wrote: bluedad wrote: opiadream wrote: whyterabbyt wrote: So by 'some developers' does the original poster just mean BONES. Or are there actually other developers in question, rather than somone just rehashing this review again, despite it already having been done elsewhere recently? beating up on bones is a specialty around these parts YOU GOT THAT RIGHT MO FO I SAY WE BEAT THAT MUTHA FUCKA DOWN RIGHT NOW STOP PICKIN ON MY MAN! BOTH OF YOU oh look,here comes farlukar just jumping on the quoting bandwagon it's true I am a tosser

opiadream wrote:

farlukar wrote: opiadream wrote: vurt wrote: opiadream wrote: bluedad wrote: opiadream wrote: whyterabbyt wrote: So by 'some developers' does the original poster just mean BONES. Or are there actually other developers in question, rather than somone just rehashing this review again, despite it already having been done elsewhere recently? beating up on bones is a specialty around these parts YOU GOT THAT RIGHT MO FO I SAY WE BEAT THAT MUTHA FUCKA DOWN RIGHT NOW STOP PICKIN ON MY MAN! BOTH OF YOU oh look,here comes farlukar just jumping on the quoting bandwagon it's true I am a tosser

just

x_bruce wrote:

Rather than get into what individuals think about selling SE synths I'll put more stock in Jeff's opinion. He's the one that has the right to say how his software is used. I'll make sure to ask in the interview we're doing.

So if Jeff says M42 is great then Bones review is invalid?

jens wrote:

x_bruce wrote: Rather than get into what individuals think about selling SE synths I'll put more stock in Jeff's opinion. He's the one that has the right to say how his software is used. I'll make sure to ask in the interview we're doing. So if Jeff says M42 is great then Bones review is invalid?

think hes talking more about people selling synths than bones review of one synth

vurt wrote:

jens wrote: x_bruce wrote: Rather than get into what individuals think about selling SE synths I'll put more stock in Jeff's opinion. He's the one that has the right to say how his software is used. I'll make sure to ask in the interview we're doing. So if Jeff says M42 is great then Bones review is invalid? think hes talking more about people selling synths than bones review of one synth

Probably you're right.

I have always difficulties at figuring out what x bruce is trying to tell us.

(I'm speaking about the occasional short post from him - I can't be bothered to read the long ones )

I too find the popularity of that synth rather strange, considering it's not too bad, but based on a soundbank. I don't find the presets very far from the base soundbank itself, so I don't much consider it a synthesizer. But if people like it..

Are some SE developers jealous ? (BONES´ M42 review)

do bears shit in the woods ?

do fish swim ?

not exactly rocket science is it ?

anyone with a slight clue would know how negative and bitter this guy is over any pay SE synth.

"it's beta"

what a load of bollox, like nothing is ever beta ?

I have beta's im working with for years, sure there may be bugs in SE products like any other ones but there are 100% bug free SE devices out there too.

(these bugs in SE may even be in things that are not in everyones products)

when was the last time M42 crashed for you guys ?

anyone reading bones review can see it's shamefull
and way, way bitter.

Jeff (synthedit maker) would be ashamed to see that review, and all the negative talk about the product he puts so much work into.

maybe once the name becomes 1.0 bones will stop his transparent bashing ? doubt it.

never crashed here,altho i have had very few se synths ever crash on me.

exactly,

I have not had one single email saying ANY of my se devices crash either.

vurt wrote:

never crashed here,altho i have had very few se synths ever crash on me.

that's 'cos SE is rubbish, only good synths crash regularly...


runs for cover...

Is it time for the cheese fondue already?

BONES wrote:

The other side of the coin is that the developers actually appreciated getting some useful feedback instead of the usual gushing krap that flies around this place.

So e-mail them or post in the forums but don't review products you don't own, one of our basic rules.