The B4 is a fantastic VSTi, from what I have seen, but I absolutely hate the random CD check. I refuse to spend my money on intrusive copy protection measures like that -- I would rather buy something else. Are there alternatives to the B4 that get the job done as well, or perhaps even better? Or do any of them even come close to the B4?

mmh.... what about this ?

http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/682.html

http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/1193.html

Both free, both very good. As good as B4? You be the judge, but the price is unbeatable


(edited url mess up)

There is a soft-synth organ "roundup" in last month's issue of Keyboard Magazine (with B4 mistakenly held of to this month's issue)

jeffn1

What are folks' impressions of daOrgan? It looks to me to be the best alternative so far, but I'd like to know what people think before I purchase.

Personally, I think orgaNIZED is kick ass.
Probably pretty much on par with the B4, maybe even better in some areas.
Unfortunately it's quite a bit more CPU hungry.

Apart from that, the B4 Leslie is lousy. Sounds like a wrongdoing panner. OK, in a mix it's usually working, but if you really know what a Leslie sounds like (I'm somewhat often playing with some kickass organ player, so I do know), you'll just ask yourself how NI could get away without ever updating it.

Anyways, if you want the best virtual organ, I recommend spending 3000 Euro on a G5 and another 1000 for Logic - Emagics EVB3 is unbeatable.
But then, fuck it... we do love PCs, don't we? (At least I certainly do!).

For 4000 bucks I'd buy a real hammond

Sascha Franck wrote:

I'm somewhat often playing with some kickass organ player

hey Sascha, why don't you tell your friends to play and record some nice jazzy tune with OT3 for me?

Sage wrote:

The B4 is a fantastic VSTi, from what I have seen, but I absolutely hate the random CD check. I refuse to spend my money on intrusive copy protection measures like that -- I would rather buy something else. Are there alternatives to the B4 that get the job done as well, or perhaps even better? Or do any of them even come close to the B4?

There are other alternatives - I've tried most of them. Biggest concern I have is that if I have to use multiple instances (upper, lower, and/or pedal), then what happens if the vibrato or Leslie sim gets out of sync? I can use an external plug for the Leslie, but the vibrato is pretty vsti-specific....
(well, you'd have to have one LFO going at 6.67cps, assign it to pitch, and get the depth right).

That's the type of thing where B4 excels for me.... and I was an early adopter, I bought it in 2001 for standalone use, well before I started using VSTI.

Doug

ZioKiller wrote:

hey Sascha, why don't you tell your friends to play and record some nice jazzy tune with OT3 for me?

I allready asked him to play some MIDI organ tracks for me... QUITE a while ago. He never managed to do so. What a lazy mofo.
No, actually, he's rather busy most of the time.
Hope to get him into playing some stuff for me one day though.

Btw, here's some snipplets of him playing the real deal:
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/RealB3_01.mp3
The band is mixed WAY in the background, so you can hear all the nasty growls and shit. No processing at all applied.
http://home.arcor.de/s.franck/RealB3_02.mp3
Same tune, organ soloed this time. Just listen HOW organic everything sounds - I tell you, this thing SCREEEEEAMS!
Still waiting for someone to replicate it like this!

I have B4 and like it, but ZioKiller's ORGANized Trio is awfully close. It's the best free organ I know of. Free -- but well worth a donation. His Mr. Ray EP is a lot of fun too. Check them out, see whether you like them.

Meffy

Sascha Franck wrote:

Anyways, if you want the best virtual organ, I recommend spending 3000 Euro on a G5 and another 1000 for Logic - Emagics EVB3 is unbeatable.

I agree it's by far the best I've tried up till now but I've just bought this beauty

http://www.cwaudio.de/page.php?seite=b2003&lang=en&submenu=home

- probably half the price of the Logic setup if you factor in the Creamware card and the price of the plugin but I reckon it's even more authentic. I love Hammond sounds. B4 and daOrgan both lack a certain life.

Sage wrote:

The B4 is a fantastic VSTi, from what I have seen, but I absolutely hate the random CD check. I refuse to spend my money on intrusive copy protection measures like that --

I thought NI have changed all their products to the current web based copy protection scheme, where you can manage your 2 accounts quite freely (enable/disable accounts, etc.).
I haven't checked to confirm this though and am using my own B4 still with the CD check, which asks for the CD very rarely, so it does not annoy me really.

Sascha Franck wrote:

Btw, here's some snipplets of him playing the real deal I tell you, this thing SCREEEEEAMS!

I waaaaaaaaaant iiiiiiit !!!

NuBi is the one I always recommend.. fantastic sound..

DSP

Ezy Ryder wrote:

http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/682.html http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/1193.html Both free, both very good. As good as B4? You be the judge, but the price is unbeatable (edited url mess up)

neither are free anymore...

nubi is close to 40 bucks, and the other is fully functional but nag screen disappears with 15 euro donation.

The one that everyone seems to be forgetting about is CHARLIE!!!!!

ttoz wrote:

Ezy Ryder wrote: http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/682.html http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/1193.html Both free, both very good. As good as B4? You be the judge, but the price is unbeatable (edited url mess up) neither are free anymore... nubi is close to 40 bucks, and the other is fully functional but nag screen disappears with 15 euro donation. The one that everyone seems to be forgetting about is CHARLIE!!!!!

How fast things changes, I downloaded both about a month ago, no charges and no nag screen.
Ho well, thanks for the head up.

ttoz, my plugins show the nag screen but apart from that, they're fully functional... no limitations at all.

Even Luxonix' LFX-1310 shows a nag screen but it's not limited at all.. I use it on my laptop for live playing (it's great!)

ZioKiller wrote:

ttoz, my plugins show the nag screen but apart from that, they're fully functional... no limitations at all. Even Luxonix' LFX-1310 shows a nag screen but it's not limited at all.. I use it on my laptop for live playing (it's great!)

i wasn't saying it as bad!

i did say in that post it was still fully functional.

speaking of which, i am REALLY wanting to try out your plugins as I never have, and i can't download (the zip) one of trio, the download stops sometimes at 16%, sometimes at 30...

Sage wrote:

What are folks' impressions of daOrgan? It looks to me to be the best alternative so far, but I'd like to know what people think before I purchase.

I had it. I sold it.

It generally sounds good, but the foldback points were wrong - so much so that standard Hammond drawbar settings didn't sound right to me, nor did they match B4.

I own two Hammonds (-: and maintain a couple more.

BTW, in the US an A-100 without a Leslie will go for about $1000-1500, depending on case (A-105's and A-101's tend to go for more, A-102's tend to go for less). Check funeral homes, they often have a Hammond sitting unused, although it might be an M-3 or M-100 spinet (which can be had for under $200).

A decent used 145/147 Leslie (easier to hook up, IMHO, than a 122/142) will run about $1000 or so... I use a Motion Sound Pro-3T + LowPro on my A-105, the pair set me back about $1400 and will fit in my back seat.

Doug

For single-manual use, I like NuBi.... I really should register it, I'm using the freebie version right now.

There's a thread here in Instruments about B4 vs Charlie, you might want to look that up.

Edit: Check
http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54150
http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52808

Doug

Quote:

but I absolutely hate the random CD check

As of the 1.1.5 update yesterday under "Changes" it says "Version 1.1.5 that does not require the original B4 CD to be inserted after the first start."

That's a direct quote so make what you will of the grammar.

FWIW it didn't do it with v1.1.4 from the Komplete 2 bundle after the first start either.

My Twopence-worth:

Nubi is gorgeous, but a little clean.

Organized Trio is very tasty too, though the rotary emulation is a bit anaemic.

ZR3 is very under-rated...

Couldn't get along with the daOrgan demo (I prefered all the above)...

But I'm a tinkerer - not an Organist

Cheers!

discostu wrote:

Nubi is gorgeous, but a little clean.

My next goal is to try to improve NuBi's distortion process - as always, KVR will be the first to know

peace,
pj

discostu wrote:

Nubi is gorgeous, but a little clean.

Out of curiousity, have you ever tried to "dirty it up" a little with some external effects?

I'm also curious to know, what sort of "unclean" properties you would like it to have?


take care,
McLilith

bnmoore wrote:

Quote: but I absolutely hate the random CD check As of the 1.1.5 update yesterday under "Changes" it says "Version 1.1.5 that does not require the original B4 CD to be inserted after the first start." That's a direct quote so make what you will of the grammar. FWIW it didn't do it with v1.1.4 from the Komplete 2 bundle after the first start either.

Where does this quote come from? I'm trying to work out whether the 11MB B4 update download is worth it for me.

I gotta vote for Nubi, if you set it up right you can really get a nice hammond-esque sound out of it. As of the newest update the leslie/rotary chorus sounds a lot better (still could probably use some improvement). The only thing I'd like to see added is vibrato just for that extra bit of swirly but right now Nubi is probably my favorite VST organ (and I own DaOrgan, and have used the B4 fairly extensively).

discostu wrote:

ZR3 is very under-rated...

And the name "Rumpelrausch Taips" is kind of hard to beat.

Meffy

Don't forget about Lightbag/Dirtbag, those are some real fun little organ VSTi's. I dunno why, but I just love the (rather unauthentic) sound that you get when you turn on the portamento and crank up the distortion! A real screamer, Dirtbag. And Lightbag is great too. Also might want to try Morphiza.

Meffy wrote:

discostu wrote: ZR3 is very under-rated... And the name "Rumpelrausch Taips" is kind of hard to beat. Meffy

Did I miss something, or is this one not available anymore?

Sage wrote:

The B4 is a fantastic VSTi, from what I have seen, but I absolutely hate the random CD check. I refuse to spend my money on intrusive copy protection measures like that -- I would rather buy something else. Are there alternatives to the B4 that get the job done as well, or perhaps even better? Or do any of them even come close to the B4?

2 conclusions:

1) B4 (along with Pro-53 & FM7) is the only instrument from NI that is worth buying, even if you hate random CD checks.

2) The real question is if there is anything else better than B4. I don't know about the rest of you, but I always like playing with Combosister. I just find it more wicked than B4.

I will take another look at the ZR's myself.

jamesb wrote:

bnmoore wrote: Quote: but I absolutely hate the random CD check As of the 1.1.5 update yesterday under "Changes" it says "Version 1.1.5 that does not require the original B4 CD to be inserted after the first start." That's a direct quote so make what you will of the grammar. FWIW it didn't do it with v1.1.4 from the Komplete 2 bundle after the first start either. Where does this quote come from? I'm trying to work out whether the 11MB B4 update download is worth it for me.

I don't know that it's on their website, but when I downloaded and installed the update, that quote was in the "What's New" page. Other updates include changes for B4D, fix for hanging notes in standalone, occasional crashes when sending MIDI data, and automation updates - on/off switches turn off when an automation value less than 0.5 is received.

I didn't even get asked for the CD when installing that patch, because I'd been hit up for it a few days before.

Doug

TonyVanDam wrote:

2) The real question is if there is anything else better than B4. I don't know about the rest of you, but I always like playing with Combosister. I just find it more wicked than B4.

I have Combo Sister too, and it has its place. But lately a lot of what I do is church-related, and a screaming Vox Continental sound just doesn't quite fit

Doug

CESynth2? Its a bit more delicate.

Hi,

McLilith wrote:

discostu wrote: Nubi is gorgeous, but a little clean. Out of curiousity, have you ever tried to "dirty it up" a little with some external effects? I'm also curious to know, what sort of "unclean" properties you would like it to have? McLilith

No, I was really referring to organ VSTs 'out of the box'.

No doubt a little crushing and crunching could do wonders for the 'lack-of-dirtiness' factor, but I haven't felt the need. (I'm pleased to hear it's on pj's todo list though )

I think in that respect ZR3 is particularly good though...

(Dirtbag/Lightbag/+ are also superbly 'dirty' but what a CPU hit!

I agree that ComboSister is great too, but don't think it would qualify as a B3/4-replacement...

Cheers!

Lunch Money wrote:

Meffy wrote: discostu wrote: ZR3 is very under-rated... And the name "Rumpelrausch Taips" is kind of hard to beat. Meffy Did I miss something, or is this one not available anymore?

Oops, could be. *blush* I d/led it long ago, liked it okay but not as much as stuff I've seen since.

*google* AHA! Here's the new site.

http://rumpelrausch.ru.funpic.de/plugins_e.html

How about that -- XR-3 is now open source. Didn't know that.

Meffy

Concerning B4 1.15: For a couple weeks, I was getting a crash (WinXP) every time I tried to load B4. Installed the update. No more trouble.

*phew*

Meffy

dougsyo wrote:

I don't know that it's on their website, but when I downloaded and installed the update, that quote was in the "What's New" page. Other updates include changes for B4D, fix for hanging notes in standalone, occasional crashes when sending MIDI data, and automation updates - on/off switches turn off when an automation value less than 0.5 is received. I didn't even get asked for the CD when installing that patch, because I'd been hit up for it a few days before. Doug

Thanks for the info Doug and Meffy, sounds like the update is worthing grabbing.

dougsyo wrote:

TonyVanDam wrote: 2) The real question is if there is anything else better than B4. I don't know about the rest of you, but I always like playing with Combosister. I just find it more wicked than B4. I have Combo Sister too, and it has its place. But lately a lot of what I do is church-related, and a screaming Vox Continental sound just doesn't quite fit Doug

Good grief!! The last thing you need is for someone to tell you that you're going to hell for playing a Vox Continental.

In most churches, it's Hammond B3 or nothing. Just buy B4 already.

TonyVanDam wrote:

Good grief!! The last thing you need is for someone to tell you that you're going to hell for playing a Vox Continental. In most churches, it's Hammond B3 or nothing. Just buy B4 already.

I did no "going to hell", more of a "just doesn't seem to fit sound-wise" for liturgical music, although I can see that sound in the pre-service P&W singing (and may use Combo Sister or B-4 alternate tonewheels there).

It's a taste thing. My church music director detests the Hammond sound - but he was raised on Rodgers, Allen, and pipe organs. He's had to make do with what we have, and he's pretty good with it now. He'll never be a "Hammond-style player", though, because he doesn't want to be (not to mention he retires the end of this month).

Doug

BTW, I finally try out ZR3. It sinks!

I'll tell everyone to stick with B4 & Combosister.

As for Charlie, I'll check it out this weekend. I'll keep everyone posted.

[cough]nubi[cough]

I really say organized; the new version (3.0) is wonderful. much much better than 2.0; if you tested 2.0 and think was great BUT... take the time to download the new version and test it. Expcecially the new tone wheel in the leslie section. Really helps your organ to sit in the mix perfectly.