how do you handle this musican problem?
what is the meaning of ducking?
which methods ar given to solve the bass- bassdrum problem.
when i say problem i mean they both fight each other in the same frequenzies and this gives a confused
signal.
tell me how you fix that problem and which tools do you use for this type of work.

One solution is in the music itself:

You'll recognise the style

Hi!

I´ve 2 little tricks that sounds nice when you implement them! The first is to rytmiqually separate
the bass and the basskick and try for them to enhance each other, the second is that when they
do colide you eq/filter away some of the "high-bass" on one of them and some of the "lowbass" on
the other one, but when they´re allready separate you can allow full bass on them both! One way
of doing this is to have separate tracks for the "coliding" bass-notes/kicks - but perhaps some one
here have an easier way?

Best Regards!

i havent used it myself but sidechain compression is the tool youre looking for, when the compressor hears the kick come in it drops the bass down a bit... apparently....

someone else will be able to explain this better

Hi
You can also adjust the pitch of the kickdrum so it fits with the bass an melody.
That is what i do most of the time

splattabreakz wrote:

i havent used it myself but sidechain compression is the tool youre looking for, when the compressor hears the kick come in it drops the bass down a bit... apparently.... someone else will be able to explain this better

Yes you´re absolutely right and furthermore is that one a lot easier than my eehh...
home-cooked suggestion, he he (more salt & vinegar !)

Best Regards!

You have them too loud, I can them by the volume of the thread subject title.

Compression is not so important. Eq less so.

The most important steps are:

1) Planning what you want the kick and bass to do
2) Choosing sounds that are appropriate for your plan
3) Composing sensibly.

Planning
You should decide how you want your kick and bass to sound before getting stuck into tweaking. Rarely can the kick and bass BOTH be huge and fat on the bottom end, as well as being full in the mids and articulate in the highs... It's easier to establish a hierarchy. For example, you can let the kick take the lowest bottom, and give the bass more body in the mids, but let the attack of the kick come through in the highs. Alternatively, you could have a bottom-heavy booty bass, and couple that with a lighter, perhaps shorter kick.

Most of the time when we hear "fat kick and bass", the "fatness" comes from the two working together like that - one fills in the holes of the other. Which is which will depend on the music.

Of course, browsing presets and messing about it a good way to get inspired, but once you have a good idea of what you want, go easy on the tweaks!

Choosing
Once you've got the plan, choosing sounds is much easier. This includes programming, but I'm specifically calling it "choosing" because you will be creating a sound that you've already heard before. Yes, it might involve some synth programming, effects, whatever... but you'll be choosing the sounds from the massive bank of sounds in your memory (in your brain).

The trick with choosing sounds is to stay on target. Don't get distracted by endlessly tweaking parameters or scrolling through hundreds of samples. Know your kit well enough so you don't have to waste time working out how to get a certain sound. You should already know how to do it - just spend the time in actually doing it.

This is where you'd use EQ to shape the sounds so they become closer to what's in your head. Compression is usually not needed - most bass sounds can have their dynamics precisely controlled from the synth or sampler. The only exception I can think of is a "plucky" bass sample that could do with some compression to bring up the level of the decay after the pluck. Most kick drum samples are already compressed and don't need further dynamics tweaks (except maybe to enhance/reduce the attack - which can usually be done from the sampler). If you're using a drum synth (not a sampler) and you think you need compression - chances are you really need to adjust the synthesis parameters.

I've heard others say that layering kick drums can be a good tactic. Personally, I haven't found a need to layer them. I find I can get what I want by starting with a good (appropriate) sample, and editing (EQ, envelope, etc). Layering also opens a HUGE can of worms when it comes to workflow - the possibilities are huge. For example - let's say you have 100 kick drum samples. If you decide to layer two of them, there are 10 000 combinations! If you want to layer three, there are 1 000 000 combinations! If you want to layer them with a programmable drumsynth... well, the possibilities are endless! Not good for workflow!

You might still be asking - Why use familiar sounds? Why not create totally new sounds? Don't kid yourself. Unless you're into experimental academic art noise, most of the sounds you'll be using in your music already exist on recordings of other people's music. Is this unoriginal? Perhaps... but like I said - if you're totally into making sounds that nobody's heard before, get into art-noise. Otherwise, be content that your music will contain familiar elements. No rock music fan complains that all their favourite bands use electric guitars.

Composing
If you've done the first two steps well, then this is the easiest. If your sounds are chosen well, you'll be free to have your kick and bass playing at the same time, or not, and both will sound good. This means that your choice of notes is a composition choice, not a mix choice. Big difference. You can have the bass and kick play whatever is appropriate for the music, without being limited by the sounds.

If your bass and kick are both equally fat, then it will be very difficult to avoid mud when they're both sounding at the same time. This will limit you to compose the bass and kick to be "taking turns". Great if you're into dancefloor trance, not so great for most other genres.


I hope that helps.


... or you could just EQ and compress the fnck out of your bass and kick, and wonder why your mix can't get out of the quickmud it's stuck in.

Forever,




Kim.

Jeez!


(thanks, nice post )

Or you could be a lzy fucker like I am & just use this:

http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=844268

Sicklecell666 wrote:

Or you could be a lzy fucker like I am & just use this: http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=844268

Ahhhh.. exactly the sort of thing computers *ought* to be used for. And so cheap, too.... does it work really well??

So far, so good.

Try the demo!

nice answers here, but i dont think that space ist the thing on kick and bass, coz these are most of the time in the center, where they should be.

i do a lot of bassy music and for seperating kick and bass i use mostly 2 techniques:
- eq oppositely: f.e. give the kick sum 80hz, get it off the bass / give the bass sum more 120hz, get that off the kick a bit (always relies on the sounds you use)
- subgroup kick and bass w/ a compressor (dont overdo compression; treshhold at around -5 should do a the job); i use Kjaerhus GPP on that , or GCO if the sounds are more complex

also a good advice is: make another subgroup for kick, snare, bass (maybe sum other stuff) using channel sends w/ quite heavy compression and eq on. eq should be: bass+, mids-, highs+ . and mix this subgroup back in the main mix at about -20 to -30db. this gives a good foundation and keeps things together.

...

IT'S ALL ABOUT EQ!!!
Bass drum playing around 250 hertz, and basses usualy around 75 hertz.
Lets take an example and say that BD is on 200 hertz and the BASS is 60 hertz.

Bass drum's eq should be at 3db (up) on 200 hertz and 1.4 of "Q" and -1.5db (down) on 60 hertz and 2.7 of "Q".

Bass's eq should be at 3db (up) on 60 hertz and 1.4 of "Q" and -1.5db (down) on 200 hertz and 2.7 of "Q".

I hope you understand my point, and you'll be surprised!

scamme wrote:

IT'S ALL ABOUT EQ!!! Bass drum playing around 250 hertz, and basses usualy around 75 hertz. Lets take an example and say that BD is on 200 hertz and the BASS is 60 hertz.

Now wait just a minute, do you mean bass as in bassplayer? If so then it will vary a lot
according to the bass´s melody (all of it´s different tones having their own herz-number)!
So your example will only affect one (or a couple) of the notes your bassline is playing!
A 60Hz bass is a very low bassline (with it´s (sub)bass-melody ranging from like 35Hz to
100Hz) and the this 250Hz-bassdrum? - isn´t that more of a tenordrum?

Best Regards!

PederPluttis wrote:

.... and a 250Hz-bassdrum? - isn´t that more of a tenordrum? ...

Quote:

Lets take an example and say that...

Concentrate on the EQing - not what playing and when!

...

scamme wrote:

Concentrate on the EQing - not what playing and when!

- I don´t understand? Wasn´t the EQing supposed to affect the sound of what´s playing?
If the bass note I´m playing is a 110Hz-note what good will a "3db (up) on 60 hertz and
a -1.5db (down) on 200 hertz then do?

Best Regards!

PederPluttis wrote:

scamme wrote: Concentrate on the EQing - not what playing and when! - I don´t understand? Wasn´t the EQing supposed to affect the sound of what´s playing? If the bass note I´m playing is a 110Hz-note what good will a "3db (up) on 60 hertz and a -1.5db (down) on 200 hertz then do? Best Regards!

you should concentrate on the fundamentals of the two sounds. other than the bass, the kick has a (more or less) fixed main frequency. but also the particular bass (the bass line) will have one or two dominant frequencies.

for example:
the kick has a peak at 80hz and the bass (line) has peaks at 70hz and 140hz. so you can up the kick at around 80 and dip it at 60 and 140. then you can add a bit of 140 to bass.
you should experiment a bit. dont add too much boost , dip to taste. you will find that if you tweak the right frequencies it ll sound much clearer (better). all these frequencies are just examples, it all depends on the source.

also its preferable to dip/boost two frequencies (the second shpould be double or half the first) on the same instrument than just one.
its better to add +1db on 70 and 140hz that to add +2 on just 70hz.

Hi!

I´ve both ears & eq so concentrating on the fundamentals of the two sounds isn´t a problem.
I was more writing towards the "fact" that "bass" is something around 60Hz and the "bassdrum"
is situated at 250Hz! That statement made (for me) no sense at all!

Best Regards!
(edit spelling one of my... strong abbilities, (especially in a second/third language:)))

IMO you need to decide which of the two should be there for the "fundament".
Sometimes the bass is more suitable, so you may EQ the too low frequencies out of the kick, sometimes it's vice versa.
It's even that occasionally a low cut might help to get the bass cut through better, as you could then raise some low mids instead and have the kick doing the deep frequency job. And again, this will sometimes work vice versa.

From what I know, sidechained compressors are usually used for the more dancey kinda things, when you really need to pump the shit out of things, so the kick and bass combo can get going at full boom, only with the kick surpressing the bass whenever they are played simultaneously.
Might not sound too realistic in case you're mixing band stuff or other naturally sounding things.

DwarfNebula's explanation are better than mine, english is not my native language and i never learned it at school. Sorry for confussion.

Hi!

Then it´s my misstake beacause (looked at in retrospect) I almost seemed to want
to missinterpret what you wrote, sorry !

Best Regards

Awww , nice to see people being nice to each other and not flaming each other. Good stuff.

Interesting reading this, I have problems with kicks and bass too. I usually just get upset and write some ambient bollocks instead