|Author||Topic: Interactive Kits and Snares (Pt. 2)|
Posted: 17th April 2002 15:37
Have you ever thought about doing a second Kits and Snares disc using brushes instead of sticks?
Like "Kits and Snares Pt. 2 - Attack of the Brushes"
I bought that disc off you many moons ago for my Akai S3000XL and I don't think it's left the drive since it came. It still sounds amazing and stands taller than what's coming out these days. I'm just looking for a really good brush library that's comparable with your product... and I'm kinda at a loss. Any suggestions?
I'll even change my hardware ways and get a proper drum VSTi too if necessary...
Posted: 24th April 2002 00:44
You know, I must have missed this thread. I'll have to check what others I've missed. Sorry guys.
Okay, I will let you in on a little secret. IDK vol. 2 is in the works. Oh boy is it good! I am really excited about having a second volume with this map again! Anyway, there are TONS of brush snares on it. There's only one brush kit with toms and cymbals but many brush snares (even with some brush performance by Toss Panos). It's not a "brush snare" IDK pt 2 but it's loaded with new drum samples. You'll love it. We'll try to have it done by the end of the Summer or sooner, you never know!
[ 24 April 2002, 03:45: Message edited by: Squids ]
Posted: 26th April 2002 10:37
has IDK v1 been known to load/work ok in NI Battery?
Posted: 26th April 2002 11:36
Can I pre-order???
Posted: 26th April 2002 16:17
quote:Actually, it should work fine in Battery. The problem is that Battery can't really take advantage of the I-Map aspect of it. But, if you want to just load up the multitude of individual samples then... we have a lot of customers that use it that way...on MPC's as well.
[ 26 April 2002, 19:18: Message edited by: Squids ]
Posted: 26th April 2002 16:26
quote:I am glad you are excited about it. I think it will be a good one... especially nice for those that have gotten good at playing our I-Map because once you have those skills, it's great to have more kits that fit into that scheme.
As to pre-orders... we can't really do that. I used to do that and it if by chance it takes longer than expected it makes me look bad. We're nice guys and we mean well so we don't like to put ourselves in the position to look bad. However, if anyone wants to be "on the list" for anything coming out then this is possible by just sending me an email. We can contact you when it is shipping and you can order it then. Just remember that stuff I say here is not "official" announcements and sort of a priveledge of hanging on our company forum (insight into our future plans for example).
For instance, if I said we were working on "Interactive Brass Section" please don't get mad at me and say 3 months from now "So, where is it you losers??????" because these things take time and you never know what it's going to take to make your products consistently good (something we have pride in).
However, if we announce it on our web site (such as World Traveler or the Akai universal versions) you have a little more reason to say "Well? Where is it you Sonic Shmo?" and I would still say the same thing about it just taking time to get it right...and that it's worth the wait etc.
Posted: 26th April 2002 17:40
quote:ok, is there any current software sampler yet that can support the I-Map aspect (not even sure what I-Map is, I just know that I like how those drums sound...the grace notes are great )
Posted: 26th April 2002 18:50
quote:Me neither - What is really all the fuss about I-Map ???
Posted: 26th April 2002 20:04
Okay, I have to go take Mrs Squids to a play. When I get back I will explain the I-Map thing. In the meantime, if Mr. Tunes, Daniel or any other I-Map savy guys want to explain, be my guest. I will tell you whatever is missing.
Or, another thing you can do is go to: www.sonicreality.com and read the liner notes on Interactive Drum Kits sample library where there is a detailed explanation of our little I-Map drums.
Mr. Tunes used an I-Map kit from Sonic Synth in his winning K-v-R competition this month! Good job Tunes! You almost fooled me (especially later in the tune!) it started to sound frighteningly real dude!
[ 26 April 2002, 23:04: Message edited by: Squids ]
Posted: 27th April 2002 03:09
quote:Okay. I come back from the play and no one even tried to explain the I-Map Drum thing? Oh well. Sorry guys. Maybe you were able to find the info on the SR web site. But, here is a basic summary of it...
Interactive Drum Map or I-Map for short. Pretentious name. No matter, it's still REALLY cool. But, all it really is is (isn't it weird when you say "is is"?) sorry, all it is is is is is a special map we made for drum multisamples so that you can play the drums with more realism interactively with your fingers (as opposed to having to lay one drum part down at a time because they are mapped all over the place across the keyboard). There are also a wider variety of hits available to you in the map including some important elements that are often overlooked such as ghost notes and snare rolls. There's a certain way you can place both hands on the keyboard and do very convincing drum programming because IMO you can get better feel when playing drums off each other at the same time vs. one at a time overdubbing- which of course you can still do if you prefer anyway.
Bottom line is that there are more hit variances in the map. You get 8-9 different hihat keys of varying degress of closed open. You get a snare with a center, edge, rim and sidestick as well as a left and right stick drum roll element where you can rock back and forth and do VERY convincing drum rolls that don't phase (because they are different samples). With the toms there are three key hits per tom and with kicks there are 4 keys for the same kick but with different hits. Remember these also have multiple velocity layers so the variety of hits going on dynamically as well as changing it up across tha map starts to get really close to the sound of a real drummer depending on how you play it.
Okay, now that you know that, there is one I-Map kit in Sonic Synth (with 2 extra effected variances) and there are a whole bunch on the upcoming Acoustic Drums eROM (and there will be more drum eROMS in the future too). We'll have a few more I-Map Drum Kits on the SS bonus disc upgrade coming this Summer as well (this is free for SS users BTW- plus shipping of course).
However, the library where this started is still a great Akai library to have if you have something to play it. It's called "Interactive Drum Kits and Snares" and it's $199. We won a Keybuy award for it in our review in Keyboard Magazine US and in it the reviewer said that out of all the drum libraries out there, this was his new favorite. That's a big complement considering all that's out there. The cool thing is that we are doing an AKAI UNIVERSAL version of it which will be a lot easier to read on samplers OTHER than Akai such as EXS, Sampletank, HALion, Giga et. Although we do have Emu EOS native as well as SampleCell native and Kurzweil too. We're a busy bunch!
Hope that helps you guys see what's cool about the I-Map drums. Of course, we also provide GM map drums as well for that compatibility too.
Posted: 27th April 2002 04:21
I bought the IDK a few months ago from ilio. At first I thought it was pretty pricey, but I really wanted a good sample cd with real sounding drums. Anyway, after debating with myself for a few weeks whether or not to buy it, I just went ahead and ordered it. I think I used it in every single song I have done since. This CD is amazing, really!!!
Posted: 27th April 2002 07:14
This morning I decide to have go with the interactive drum kit in SS. Man, great idea.. Love the rolls and all the other varied hits.
However, I don't really understand why Battery can't take advantage of the i-Map. I use battery a lot and can't figure that out.
Posted: 27th April 2002 07:42
quote:yes, the I-Map concept sounds great to me, but would be even better in Battery where all the snare for example could be routed to a particular output...
Posted: 27th April 2002 12:44
Well, the cool thing about getting the Akai version of Interactive Drum Kits is that you can use it with your Battery and you can use it with other samplers as well. You still have the variety of hits and in Battery it is so easy to just assign them to pads.
For other aspects of IDK you can use other samplers that read the map perfect.
Of course, the Acoustic Drums eROM will have some material from IDK in it and then some material that is from other sources. If you wanted both I would give you a special deal and the same would go for anyone who wanted to buy Interactive String Section and Symphony Strings or Concert Grand Pianos and Piano Collection. They share "some" similar sources but there is obviously native programming that is different as well as varying amounts of sample material from other sources in our vast archives.
[ 27 April 2002, 15:45: Message edited by: Squids ]
Posted: 3rd May 2002 07:27
Just finished one of the last drum sampling sessions for Interactive Drums Vol. 2 I think we'll make it a two disc set. There are soooo many hits. It's kind of boring to do the session though. It's also a whole lot of work to edit and put into the sampler (more than you think). But, when it's done the reward is NEW kits to play!!!!!
I am so tired right now. This session was a cool one. Before we were using Neves and API mic pre's. But, this time we used Avalon mic pre's in this really cool studio with that perfect "just a little live" dry room. It took forever!!!! But, it will be worth it! Can't wait to finish that this Summer.
Thought you'd like an update. More I-Map drums coming up. Maybe we'll sneak a few things from these sessions onto the new Ac Drums eROM at the last minute here! Slam! Crack! Swish... I love drums.
Posted: 3rd May 2002 07:38
That all sounds really fascinating. I finally understand what I-MAP stands for.
Although it will probably be not much use to me as I'm no good on a real drum kit, never mind playing a drum kit on a keyboard. But I am a pianist so you never know - it could work.
I'll certainly give it a go. Thanks very much for that highly original concept Squids.
Posted: 3rd May 2002 14:09
Thank you for complimenting my highly original concept of..."Squids". I think it is original too.
I also think that even non-drummers or finger drummers can make good use of the I-Map just because it has a wide variety of hits you can enter even one at a time for more realism.
Posted: 3rd May 2002 18:40
I've been experimenting with the I-Map kits in Sonic Synth, and they are fun to play. Still it would be cool if some more keys in the keyboard could be leveraged for things like;
1) a flam version of every snare,tom,hihat,ride
(also flams that combine 1Hat+1Ride and two different rides in one note-on)
2) ghost roll versions of hats and rides
3) a couple of longer snare rolls, for certain kinds of brazilian music
Posted: 4th May 2002 07:40
quote:Yes, but flams are easily created by hitting two snare keys ms apart. I like flam samples too and the acoustic drums eROM has some but it's not hard to simulate.
on 2)- what are you talking about? Ghost rolls on hats and cymbals? I am trying to picture what you mean. Like snare rolls on the cymbals? Hmmm. Hadn't thought of that. I am not sure what you mean so I don't know. However, there is more variety obviously on our Interactive Drum Kits sample library than Sonic Synth of course.
on 3) Sometimes it is nicer to have longer roll samples- true, but the idea behind the left and right stick TWO KEY roll samples is that you can rock back and forth to create your rolls (with dynamics). This is how a drummer does longer rolls too if you think about it.
Oh, but I am glad to know that your Sonic Synth arrived safe and sound David Abraham. I hope you enjoy it!
[ 04 May 2002, 10:41: Message edited by: Squids ]
|JM Drum Guru|
Posted: 4th May 2002 08:46
Where did you record the sesh..?
Posted: 4th May 2002 08:58
quote:Which one? The recent one? The older drum sessions were done in various studios in your neck of the woods. Some I am not supposed to say but some were used on some classic records.
However, a lot of times I use privately owned studios that are designed really well such as some of the musicians I've worked with like Kevin Gilbert, Toss Panos, Lyle Workman. These guys have spent many thousands to have custom studios built and they sound amazing. Kevin's drum room was built to the exact spec of The Townhouse in England for example (where they recorded Gabriel's 3rd record I believe).
Anyway, if you were refering to the last session I finished til the wee hours the other day, that was done at a friend of mine's studio in Florida. The room sounds incredible. We sampled a Pearl, Yamaha and Gretch Round Badge kit. It took FOREVER!!!! It was really boring. Everyone was so excited to sit in and watch and in the end it was only me and the other guy barely hanging on. I think we recorded about 5 hours of material. I feel sorry for the sound editors in my company this time!!!! Lots of hit munging to do...but worth it for the end result.
We used the Avalon mic pre's this time instead of the usual Neve and API's I like to use. I think these are cleaner but of course the character is different. I can't wait until they are done though. I also like to have these drum samples available to play too you know!
Posted: 4th May 2002 10:03
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Squids:
Well manual flams and rolls, don't always survive a...ahem quantize
2) Yes ghost rolls on cymbals hi-hat. For example, it would make it easy to do say a count-in in for a ballad. (roll the r's below spanish style)
[1 - 2 - "p'Ting" - 4 - "prrr Ding"]
the 1,2,4 beats are "rests"
the p'Ting is a ride flam, the prrr is a hihat roll and the Ding is the ride bell ending on beat one of the next measure.
yes I got the software earlier in the week still auditioning/listening for the right patches, I found a chorused rhodes I really like, also wasn't aware of the slicerBPM effect till I found it in one of the patches, very nice.
[ 04 May 2002, 18:33: Message edited by: Squids ]
Posted: 4th May 2002 15:34
Woops. I messed up your post David. Sometimes I hit edit instead of quote and since I am a moderator I can edit your post....didn't meant to!
Here is what I wrote in response:
On the quantizing... well to me that is one of the downfalls of quantizing but my suggestion is that if you have to quantize you can either do the quantizing that moves it "closer" to the exact by a percentage OR you can quantize it perfect and then go back in and add the extra note to the flam (easily even added in the sequence edit screen if you had to just move a note a few ticks here and there).
Anyway, flam samples are cool to. There are some on the Acoustic Drums eROM or IDK sample library.
On the hat and cymbal roll thing... very good idea. I must admit I didn't think about this one. We did do some cymbal rolls with Mallets this time which are nice for that woooooosh effect in ballads. We also did some more hat and cymbal chokes (which you can simulate but still can sound more realistic when sampled that way).
If you want to make sure we do what you are asking or anyone else, please feel free to email me an MP3 example of the effect either in a snippet in a song or another sample out there that does that or you even playing in midi on SS to try to get the idea across to me. I'll see what we can do about getting important drum performance elements into future products.
[ 04 May 2002, 18:34: Message edited by: Squids ]
Posted: 4th May 2002 16:27
The way you're going, the only person in the world who would actually need drums is yourself - for sampling.
(Another inane remark from the king of inanity)
Posted: 4th May 2002 16:38
I just want to say that in all seriousness, there is nothing better than the REAL thing in a lot of cases. The ultimate would be to have a bunch of studios immediately available with a whole bunch of drum kits and killer mics/mic pre's and drummers available to you at all times of the day and night.
This of course is not likely for many and even if it is, there is convenience and a certain amount of just pure fun having these samples ready to play from midi. I enjoy this stuff a whole lot myself. I do play drums although I can play better from the keys than with the sticks. Now I can either convey the drum part to a song accurately to a drummer by sequencing it or if he gives me an attitude I can just do the track myself!
[ 04 May 2002, 19:39: Message edited by: Squids ]
Posted: 6th May 2002 00:39
Lots of talk on the subject of drums but what about other perc. Any eRoms coming out w/ congas, bongos, Hawaian noises etc. A couple of GM set ups would be nice. I don't know for sure what's on SS( still waiting for mine-tommorrow I hope) but I love percussion and it's often an afterthought with alot of companies.
Posted: 6th May 2002 00:59
It's not an after thought for us. We'll have another new GM perc map for IDK vol. 2 but we are also releasing a load of percussion on our upcoming World Traveler sample library with ILIO.
If that's not enough for you, how does a few percussion eROMS grab you?
(oooh. bad squids. bad boy)
Posted: 6th May 2002 05:16
It grabs me! It grabs me!
Oh how does it grab me?
Well, maybe that's not for this forum.
Posted: 6th May 2002 05:26
I know 3 or 4 percussion oriented eROMS that will be completed this Summer. Some of these are still in their raw sample stage but I have heard them recently and I can't wait until they are made into ST instruments. Good stuff. I shouldn't talk too much about them because it's too early but let's just say that from orchestral to ethnic/world to latin...we've got it covered and in a unique way as well. You'll see. I know what some of you guys like. Trust me, I like the same thing! (African Djembes, Dumbeks, Timpani, Marimbas....)
[ 06 May 2002, 08:27: Message edited by: Squids ]
Posted: 6th May 2002 22:53
I like, I like. Man, Squids you're really starting to make it tough for guys like me who just gotta have the whole set,( just like Mr Tunes said about GI Joes). All these eRoms and World Traveler too, I'm not even sure what to get next. I think however that I'll order several at one time, the mail is so unbearbly slow up here (sorry posties), still patiently waiting for SS and I'll have a better idea of what I'll want after a listen or two. Notice I said "want" and not "need", the sure sign of a hopeless audio junkie.
Posted: 6th May 2002 22:59
How about a DR-008 version? With 96 pads, we've got stacks of room on the machine for I-Mapped hits, and the drag+drop makes it a doddle to set kits up *incredibly* fast... v1.1 really is the fastest thing out there for setting kits up, bar none.
We're always on the lookout for good sound content, as acoustic kits is one area where we don't really have any expertise. And, being as it's bundled with every copy of SONAR XL, the userbase will very soon outstrip, well, any competitor you care to name, despite DR-008's humble indie roots.
[ 07 May 2002, 02:03: Message edited by: FXpansionAudio ]
Posted: 6th May 2002 23:08
Yes, yes, yes, this is a LOVELY idea (drool, pant, drool). Two of the best developers on the scene getting together! Well, I can hope, can't I?
Christus And The Cosmonaughts
Posted: 7th May 2002 00:29
This is probably a good idea. It would be something for the SR/eSoundz label more than the SR/ILIO label which is based more on Akai and Emu sample libraries. eSoundz is our division that does Sonic Synth and the expansionROMS, OmniSoundz and certain low priced native software sampler libraries. With eSoundz we are looking to explore ways to reach people that don't normally buy high end sample libraries such as the ones we have had great success for with ILIO. That is why things like ST modules, Reason Refills and various native support for software sample playback devices are something we are into exploring.
Of course, as I have said before, there are certain things that can make that sort of thing happen faster. We already have a lot on our plate at the moment with ST modules and Akai libraries. If we had some help to do it in that format this could be the answer. Maybe FXPansion would like to email me about it.
See? The Squids has no ego. No snobby attitude, no closed mindedness. A good idea is a good idea. Of course, sometimes it helps to be realistic too. There's only so much time in the day (and I try to squeeze every minute out of it sometimes... I stay up late).
Posted: 7th May 2002 00:32
quote:Tell me about it .. You are up at 1 am my time, which should be 4 your time. And I thought I was a night owl.
Posted: 7th May 2002 00:33
Any idea how well this drum kit works in VSampler? This I-map thing sounds pretty cool.
Posted: 7th May 2002 01:02
quote:If VSampler can import Akai pretty well then the new Akai Universal version of Interactive Drum Kits sample library should work pretty good in it. BTW- cool nick.
Prog- yeah, well... we're actually ALL night owls here. Adam stays up later than me. We have meetings that start at midnight sometimes. A lot of times I keep K-v-R on (better than TV) in the background while I work. I have to pull late hours sometimes because it's so easy to get distracted during the day. Working on sounds requires concentration. I like to type my words of passion on K-v-R when I take a break from looking and listening to waveforms. Behind all those sounds you guys love is some really tedious man (or sea creature- BTW Adam is a starfish and Dan is a scallop) hours.
Posted: 7th May 2002 01:08
Speaking from experience, there is nothing like working between midnight and 2 am. The rest of the world is silent. Just me, my computer and my choice of "work music".
Posted: 7th May 2002 01:26
quote:I need one of those jobs, I much prefer going to bed at 6am than getting up at 6am. Hey Dave, can I have a job
Posted: 7th May 2002 01:54
Lest you get the wrong idea
Work for me is not equal to music . I always listen to music when I work, but I do tend to put in an hour every night when I get tired of typing .
Posted: 7th May 2002 03:24
A scallop? I don't even eat sea bugs, let alone represent them!
Did someone say sleep? My schedule is a bit thrown off as the past day and a half has been a total mess...
BTW - <Public Service Message Time>
**If you're going to drink and drive (which you SHOULD NOT DO), please do not crash into any of my friends. Thank you...
Be smart. Make cool stuff. Think. Play.
Posted: 7th May 2002 04:36
Okay, SynthDan isn't a scallop (but Adam really is a Starfish).
Get some sleep SD. Hope everything is okay with your friend.
See you soon. Missed you today.