KVR :: u-he » Improvements! [View Original Topic]
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Urs - Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:38 am

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Here are the most requested improvements

- gui preserves look & subpages when closed & opened again
- gui remembers presets and their location
- lfo sync not only to host tempo but may also run in seconds/hertz
- on Win, presets & resources can also be kept in Vstplugins dir
- preset changes via midi, cursor keys
- global effects off switch (i.e. having them off when switching presets)
- on Win, don't forget location on Midimap file
- fold back VST reset to standard procedures (avoiding cpu spikes). No workaround for buggy hosts no more

I'll slowly make my way through them...

ok, more:

- lfo wave view + feedback on all waveforms
- more intelligent text truncation and/or bigger boxes
- colours... something with colours...

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zircon - Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:00 am

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Is it OK to post comments/suggestions here?

I like all of those changes. I think they'll really improve the workflow of Z2. One quick question, with regards to the global effects off switch - can you implement something where the global effects are turned off as a preset gets changed? I believe this was brought up in the past, as if you're switching presets while there is still sound being generated, sometimes you get a loud burst of reverb, distortion, delay (etc).

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beej - Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:57 am

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I guess the only small/easy stuff I'd suggest in addition is handling long names in the preset boxes and oscillators and the extra little redraw/colour handler I requested in the grid gui script that you asked me to bug you about...

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Dunc - Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:33 am

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Abilty to have the oscillator wave section animate as it morphs thru the table of waves. Switchable on/off with oscillator wave view, i.e. switches animation on when oscillator wave view selected and off when you leave that view.

Also, ZebraCM LFO view in Zebra.

Just my 400 cents...I realize these are not trivial requests.

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kuniklo - Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:38 am

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This one is essential for using Z2 on stage. +1.

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pschelfh - Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:39 pm

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Great, I was just going to ask that ! I don't like to work with a synced tempo for vibrato, the preset will sound different when you change the host's tempo.

Thank you !

Peter.

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suthnear - Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:04 am

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since you're changing things anyway, the ability to load individual waveshapes from presets OR the ability to copy individual waveshapes between oscillators would be *extremely* useful...

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tboulette - Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:26 am

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Urs,

It'd be nice if Zebra could make me a damn fine cup of espresso, too.

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kodama - Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:46 am

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Urs,


I think alot of things would be cool in Zebra, but what I REALLY think it needs is easy & fast right click preset load/save menu for each module, and especially for MSEGs.

Most synths that use MSEGs have pull down menus to save & load your favorite ones and it makes sense to build patches like this.

Having to copy/paste between presets and having inconsistent preset loading for the few modules that support it are large hinderences.

Also, I would like to be able to type numeric values when a control has focus to reduce RSI amongst Zebra users (a noble goal?).

I mean, come on URS, you're a big Mac guy, you want to have a highly usable/consistant interface for your baby, right?

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bmrzycki - Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:25 am

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Urs, does this include remembering if the user switches the preset type to h2p or h2p extended? I prefer storing patches as h2p and always forget to change it when opening zebra.

Is there any word on the trance gate tool? I'm guessing that will come after this initial round of bug fixes and refinements.

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beej - Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:37 am

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Actually, I like the template selector as it is (refinements aside).

I like the fact that you can step through the presets with the cursor keys, see the data loading into the respective module as you do so, switch between oscillators or MSEGs with the selector open to load templates into the different modules all without closing the window - it seems to me that this is better than menus with long lists of entries or multiple submenus - those are actually worse for RSI once you get beyond a certain number of entries...

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Urs - Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:40 am

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Yep, good point!

We're talking improvements of existing stuff... new features come occasionally, but I'd like to merely concentrate on the stuff that enhances the user experience...

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Urs - Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:43 am

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Yep, makes sense... might be possible

Sure, uhm, if only keyboard input would work on all hosts... this is a major construction area (just like preset switching), as I might have to convince certain host manufacturers to change stuff in their hosts even... sigh... we'll see...

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bg - Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:45 am

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Urs, please fix PolyAT so it works with global transpose. Thank you.

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kodama - Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:13 am

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Well it would be much more useful if you could save as well as load templates from these menus.

But the way it is now, everything must be manually moved to Zebra's sacred library manually (I wish Zebra could just preview h2p files also without having to move them there).

Also, if you look at the Template Selector on the OSC module, there should be one just like it on every other module, right there on the left.

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kodama - Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:16 am

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True, and I use a host that is quite notorious for this (Live).

I think the improvements to loading/saving of presets for modules and MSEGs is way more important.

Thanks URS!

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pdxindy - Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:46 am

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yes, especially for arp's too

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stevechristian - Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:04 am

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Quick question...Why does the patch selector ALWAYS re-initialize if I close Zebra2 and re-open it in Logic? Meaning if I want to select a different patch in the subfolder, it just starts over all the way at the top again.

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mäxchen - Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:10 am

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please sort the presets in one "ordner" alphabetical, if there are fxp and h2p files

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pdxindy - Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:28 am

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might be nice to have a filter to display only h2p, fxp, au so one can see what they are from the zebra gui... and or color coding for the different presets

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puffer - Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:30 am

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I'm not sure what the advantage of moving the presets/resources from it's current program files directory would be. I personally keep all my banks and presets in a separate folder on a different drive that's easy for me to keep track of and backup.

So, short of a user-definable preset location moving it from one location in the program files to another seems to be 6-of-1/half-dozen of the other. In fact it's slightly easier for me to get to the u-he directory.

Just my two-cents.

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bmrzycki - Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:35 am

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From what I understand Urs is adding this feature to enhance the compatibility of his plugins with the Muse Receptor. I don't think those of us using a PC or Mac should really be using this. That's why he's not even mentioning a presets location change for Mac since Receptor is Linux/Wine based.

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Urs - Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:02 pm

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Does it not work? I'm pretty sure that 2.1 had fixed any PolyAT issue... no?

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Urs - Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:07 pm

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I'll eventually add a user definable location, no prob.

Many people bug me about puttin the stuff in the Vstplugins dir (which is how it was at the beginning... Filterscape etc.). Which I will not recommend, for instance because hosts scan everything for VSTs and thus they'll launch slower if there suddenly are thousands of presets and what not.

Later,

Urs

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gbles - Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:29 pm

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Been mentioned before, and it may be problematic, but XY 'presets' within a patch would be a great addition. Tas and Beej have both saved alternate versions of their patches with different XYs, so I'm sure it would be a welcome feature. I guess the trick to doing it is not adding something that might freak out the average user.

I won't mention how cool it would be to switch XY presets via MIDI too

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abstract - Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:15 am

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Urs, if you're working on GUI-related things - it would be helpful to have some visual feedback on any knobs/dials that were being effected by the XY's...

...e.g. If I use Logic automation to control the Cutoff - I can see the dial move so I know what value it's currently set at - the same feedback when adjusting values with the XY's would be a big help.

Cheers - J

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marzzz - Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:06 am

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???? It seems to be working fine for me!?!?!?

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bg - Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:12 am

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I'm sorry, my mistake. I thought I was running the latest version, but I'm not!

I apologize, Urs. And thanks, marzzz.

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pdxindy - Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:39 am

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+1

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codef0x - Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:28 am

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+1 -- but only if you, say, create a static line to know where the default position is -- or make the automation effect an additional layer/color in the control.

So you know where you SET it, and where the current position is based on automation.

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blurk - Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:34 am

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That's good to see. You had me worried for a sec that the choice was going to be between two effectively hard-coded locations. I don't like stuff being put in my OS partition (i.e. C:\Program Files\blah blah blah), but I also have several different VST plugin directories (mainly for different hosts), none of which I call Vstplugins. So if it's on the plan, great. It's certainly not the most urgent thing, I'll admit.

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abstract - Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:58 am

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[quote="codef0x"]+1 -- but only if you, say, create a static line to know where the default position is -- or make the automation effect an additional layer/color in the control.

So you know where you SET it, and where the current position is based on automation.[/quote]

Yeah, good point.

J

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mkastrup - Mon May 07, 2007 6:25 am

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I'd like to see the PWM option from Zebralette at some point since its a better way to preserve CPU for PWM based pathces like strings, basses, piano etc..

Right now i can fake a PWM by just vari the pulsewidth in the 16 waveform slots and have it run fast but it eats CPU likes theres no tomorrow. So whatever was done with the Zebralette PWM option is a much better way to produce PWM.

If this makes no sense at all i'd be happy to come up with PWM examples for Zebra & Zebralette.

Ohhh one more thing heh heh an option for PAUSE (meaning no sound) step in the ARP.

Guess the wishlist have no ending

I better stop before i get carried away

/Michael

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Urs - Mon May 07, 2007 6:39 am

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Save a Zebralette patch with PWM as .h2p
Copy it over to Zebra2 presets folder
Open in Zebra
See how it works (it's in the Phase tab of the oscillators)

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mkastrup - Mon May 07, 2007 7:28 am

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Ok thx Urs, got it now INV Phase was the key

Does it show i dont read manuals sorry

/Michael

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Urs - Mon May 07, 2007 9:13 am

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Yep! It's one of these u-he-way-of-doing-things. People loved it in Filterscape, but it was already in Zebra 1.0 as "Spectral PWM".

Cheers,

Urs

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michkhol - Thu May 10, 2007 8:47 am

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Urs,

It would be nice to have an envelope mode where parameter display would be in time units and not in obscure numbers. Sometimes it is hard to convert linear scale to exponential on the fly

Thanks,
Mike

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Howard - Thu May 10, 2007 2:07 pm

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You can. Right-click (Windows PC - dunno what it is on the Mac).

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muadib - Wed May 16, 2007 9:16 am

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hey urs, can I get your email address?

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Urs - Wed May 16, 2007 9:19 am

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Sure, it's urs at u-he dot com - and I sometimes even find the time to answer...

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aaastronomer - Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:23 pm

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urs,

live 6.0.7 reports zebra 2 is incompatible. (zebralette runs just fine!) i'm running an athlon 64 2400+ laptop under windows xp home with 1.25 gb ram. is there a fix in?

aaa

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Urs - Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:41 am

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Live is probably wrong. They have recently started to keep buggy with my stuff, so I doubt it's my fault in that case.

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aaastronomer - Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:40 pm

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i've always wondered about the relationship between plugin developers and host developers. how do you know who's at fault when a plugin doesn't work in a particular host? what's dynamic of fixing the problem? do host developers just give you a new sdk or simply instructions to follow? how do you get a plugin to work with all of the hosts? i assume host developers are developing to a uniform standard.

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RonF - Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:13 am

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Zebra 2 works fine with Live 6.0.7 for me.

Maybe a corrupted installation?

Ron

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Urs - Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:08 am

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Well I talked to Ableton and they say everything's fine. Maybe it's down to a certain configuration, or to whatever other software is installed... (I wouldn't be surprised if Zebra is scanned last... Z... and some other plugin being scanned before somehow corrupts the scanning process... interesting thought... will ask Abletons again...)

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darren cummins - Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:21 am

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sorry for being a amateur urs but i would love to see oscillator templates or something like zebracm i know they are powerful its just i find them to hard in zebralette also please add templates and il buy zebra and im sure there is a lot of amateurs who feel the same way

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tboulette - Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:48 am

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Get Transmission!

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darren cummins - Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:59 pm

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what is transmission please tell me

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tboulette - Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:11 pm

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Have a look here:

http://www.zebrasynth.com/index.php?item=transmission

You can download the manual and see if it has what you want.

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darren cummins - Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:25 am

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thanks mate

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michkhol - Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:02 am

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I think it would be good to have the filter resonance control in the noise generator. Otherwise if the resonance change is needed I have to use a dedicated filter and the generator's filter is not used at all.

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Urs - Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:10 am

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The filter in the Noise module is not always a lowpass/highpass filter. But if it is (White/Pink modes), it's just a simple 6dB/octave filter... it doesn't cost much cpu (it virtually comes free, embedded in the noise generation algorithm) and it's so simple, it doesn't have resonance...

Adding a real filter is way to go here... these are just different beasts and most of them do have resonance...

Cheers,

Urs

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ktelj - Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:45 pm

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sold! thanks for the transmissions tip, Im on vacation starting tomorrow and this and my xphraze manual are gonna be my reading materials.

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Urs - Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:42 pm

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Careful... the Transmission manual is a manual for Transmission... it's mostly a long, never ending list of presets and descriptions about what these presets do... the pdf manual for Zebra is available as well, but as it's somehow converted from html, it doesn't looks half as funky as the Transmission one

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michkhol - Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:19 am

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Thanks, Urs!

It is probably worth mentioning in the manual...

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musicall - Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:36 am

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cool idea that would be easy to implement....make a a module out of all the osc fx....that way u can easily apply one osc effect to the whole patch...i think this would be very helpful and prolly easy to implement! what do u think urs?

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Urs - Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:28 pm

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I'd *LOVE* to. I'd be rich if I could.

The problem herin is, the osc fx work not because they are based on certain ideas, but because they are osc fx. They are nothing like filters in the common sense. They hook them selves up in between the process of an idea of a waveform becoming an actual waveforem. Hard to explain. Might find an explanation tomorrow...

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musicall - Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:09 pm

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ok another idea....more shaper options with different kinds of distortion also you could add more configurability to the shapers/crushers more options to play with it besides depth and edge etc.

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bmrzycki - Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:25 am

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I've got an idea for a minor enhancement. I really like the graphical feedback of LFOs in ZebraCM. I know you've said they might be coming to Z2 in the future. I was wondering if you'd considered something similar for the envelopes? Given the Z2 envelopes are powerful ADSR++ envs, It'd be nice to have some visual feedback as to what a knob is doing to a given env when manipulate, plus the different slope and line options. I doubt I'm the only one that would benefit from "seeing" a static representation of a given Envelope. You could also have a loop marker akin to the MSEGs to assist in really grasping the life of an env.

Just a thought. I know you're swamped with a million things.

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tylenol - Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:42 pm

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It would also be nice to have some similar feedback about what parameters have been midi-learned (I thought I've seen this requested but couldn't find it in this thread).

(I had somehow gotten ModFX1 "mode" mapped to the mod wheel, and this was producing some (subtle, but really annoying) digital noise-ish sounds whenever I used the mod wheel for something else, even though ModFX1 had its mix value at 0. It took me forever to figure out what was going on.)

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musicall - Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:22 pm

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totally agree having an Option to see the envelope would be great

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musicall - Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:23 am

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another one: larger window for the synth....or a resizeable one

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Urs - Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:28 am

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A little update on things:

Some bugs are fixed that screwed the persistance of gui state when closing/opening the editor window. Something still screws some tabs, even though it worked a couple of days ago. Must investigate further.

I've had a couple of really hard days making the gui remember the patch folder & patch file. But as it stands, at least the AU already remembers this, even after closing/opening the song itself. So, when you choose a patch from within Zebra's gui, you close the gui, open it again, it'll just be where you left it, with the correct preset highlighted.

I'm still reluctant in respect of Midi Program Changes. It's not an easy thing to do, as the preset management currently is part of the gui, while Program Changes will have to be part of the dsp side. I must find a link, but maybe above mechanism to remember the gui state is also usable to propell Program Changes from dsp up to gui.

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Some scripting bugs are fixed, especially Waveform stuff and MSEGs are better controllable
Docs for scripting start here: http://www.u-he.com/scripting

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Receptor compatibility is currently screwed by, uhm, the registration file... doesn't concern freeware, but keeps me from publishing a new Zebra build
Other than that, Receptor compatibility shall be established

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Some more improvements, such as larger file selector for Module Presets, renamed Portamento to Glide etc.

(note to myself: must send beej new Zebra2.txt for Transmission skin update)

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New machine is great. Cinema 4D renders between 500%-700% cpu... pretty efficient... Vista recognizes 8 cores but only 2 GB... bummer

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Am on the case with lots of other things reported & requested... one by one... hope to have new Z2 build out soon!

Cheers,

Urs

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beej - Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:16 pm

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Ace!

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Urs - Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:32 pm

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pssst... that's actually the name of the next synth planned...

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bmrzycki - Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:27 pm

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Shouldn't it be Apple? That way you can say, "From A as in Apple to Z as in Zebra we have all your sound design needs covered."

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Notron User - Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:47 pm

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How would you do preset management?
I mean, there are only 128 midi slots right?

Would you have a preset folder, or preset playlists? so you could order your presets for specific circumstances?

How about an Oldskool(tm) GeneralMidi bank?

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Notron User - Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:47 pm

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Antelope?

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beej - Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:09 pm

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Aardvark. Come on, do it properly..!

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bmrzycki - Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:07 pm

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It would fit the animal theme...

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Urs - Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:43 am

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Okay, Mac source files have successfully been merged into Win sources, but no in-depth tests, yet.

Auth file and Midimap may now fit into receptorized file scheme

A little difference between AU and VST may compromise some of the recent work... meaning, a little extra effort may have to go into the gui improvements for VST versions. We'll see...

A new version for the brave may hopefully appear tomorrow.

Urs

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jupiter8 - Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:44 am

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Ultracoolness.

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musicall - Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:17 am

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awesome

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Howard - Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:11 am

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Chyoobyoolrrr!

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mkastrup - Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:40 am

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Who you gonna call... BUG BUSTERS!!

We all know Zebra is becoming an entity sooo, ill better prepare myself with holy water, mousetrap, a huge hammer and a blanket just incase something wierd pops up

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Howard - Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:12 am

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My real name is "Howard the Duck", and I'll be on the lookout for those pesky "Dark Overlords"

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Urs - Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:30 am

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Normally I don't post untested betas, but this timne is an exception, i.e. due to Receptor compatibility check:

http://www.u-he.com/Zebra22b1Win.zip (VST Win installer)
http://www.u-he.com/Zebra22b1AU.zip (Mac Audio Unit UB, just the component)

Major improvement: Z2 Editor hopefully remembers its last state from before closing it, including preset browser.

Dozens of little bugs fixed. I.e. it shouldn't forget where to save/load the midimap file anymore. Scripts can be way longer...

Known issues: On Windows Z2 still forgets which preset it has loaded, but it remembers the folder...

Lemme know how it goes...

Urs

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beej - Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:22 am

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Cool beans!
Quick question - does this version fix the Win MSEG bug, or is that one still outstanding..?

Off to try...

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bmrzycki - Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:07 am

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Urs,

I have a minor request for .h2p extended mode. When saving in .h2p extended format, there's still the binary blob bottom (as of Zebra2 2.1). It'd be nice if when saving in extended format we can see all the variables. It would make scripting a lot easier to understand and do with external tools as well.

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musicall - Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:43 am

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some quick fixes that could really help

have an option for the zebra window to always be on top.

be able to delete patches from the preset window

don't have a limit on the length of patch names

be able to click anywhere in the up and down arrow box to "jump" scroll from top to bottom like in normal windows

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Urs - Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:32 am

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I'd love to do that... but the file size would become enormous... 20000+ parameters for waveform/spectrum data alone. MSEGs are roughly 500 params. I'm afraid this will not do any good...

However, I've planned to put parameters that hold textual info (i.e. XY labels) into a human readable format...

Nevertheless, here's somethinmg for Win users (hopefully a compensation for their frustrating 2.2b2 build):

http://www.u-he.com/Zebra22b2Win.zip

Later,

Urs

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musicall - Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:36 am

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be able to collapse folders within folders in the preset window

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Urs - Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:40 am

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That's planned, too!

The last couple of weeks have been awefully stressful. I'm slowly eating my way through the list, but I also gotta make sure that I keep sane, so I'll take a day off or two

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musicall - Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:22 pm

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cool...i think ive been suggesting a lot of good ideas recently...

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qubie - Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:35 am

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an aux in module would be nice to have. Maybe let zebra even load as an effect(would be advisable in most hosts).It would be so nice to run external sounds through those mighty filters and effects.

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Urs - Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:07 am

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That's gonna start as soon as VST3 comes up... an fx version of Zebra won't happen... too much stress...

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bmrzycki - Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:36 am

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Hrm, good point. Well, maybe you can post the code to parse that blob somewhere. It doesn't even have to compile. Just a reference for people to learn from. Maybe on the scripting page?

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dln - Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:19 pm

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I think moving away from hierarchical preset navigation would be a good idea. After testing the new NI synths, tag/label based preset categorization and browsing really stuck out as something truly valuable and very natural.

So yeah, that's what I'd love to see... Preset tags/labels to complement hierarchy.

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Urs - Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:39 pm

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I'm not sure about that... actually, to tell you the truth... I don't really like it...

It's a huge effort. One must not underestimate the sheer work that has to go into categorization of presets / adding metadata. In my humble opinion, the concept of metadata is great - when you have someone to add it for you. But in daily use it badly fails, because no-one wants to metadata stuff for his own use. (It's hard enough to convince patch designers to add support for XY controls... they won't also write novels or click through surveys for each preset)

I also think that metadata navigation is often about having to tricksie out the computer. I compare it to the so-called intelligence of Word. One has to learn concepts to overcome the "progress" such as auto-indented lists and forcing uppercase letters after a period. My cell phone does this too and there's friggin no way to stop it.

I prefer rating systems. Those that have a *single* star or none. Not 0-5 stars. Just a single flag for "I like this preset" would be handy. These presets would automatically be copied into a folder called "Favourites". An average of 20 such presets for every softsynth one averagely owns will probably be enough for any number of albums one can ever release in his life.

And no-one prevents anyone from creating his own preset folders. For instance, drag and drop for presets into other folders would be a huge plus, almost easily done.

Seriously, it needs a lot of persuasive power to convince me of metadata for patches...

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musicall - Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:06 pm

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no metadata for me

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dmacintyre - Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:57 pm

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I agree with Urs. The NI model is flawed IMHO because of the subjective nature of metadata. Lightroom / Aperture uses photographic metadata which is a bit more focussed (no pun intended) as a predominantly blue image can have a tag "blue" and it will be so constantly and to all users as blue is blue throughout the world. But labelling a patch "bass" or "lead" is a bit pointless as it's qualities depend on what octave / register you are playing it in and how you are playing it. OK, you can subdivide arpeggiated / pads / percussive / etc, but that how things are done already in most synth patch lists anyway. No, IMHO the most important thing for a synth is sound quality, closely followed by reliability and efficiency, closely followed by preset quality, closely followed by flexibility, etc, etc.

Personally speaking, I think the big money will be for whoever comes up with the first accessible and comprehensive guide to synthesized sound design. Rob Papen is working on a DVD at the moment and if I had the expertise and time I'd be competing with him to get a "Programming Synthesizers for the Masses" video tutorial online. Come on Urs / Howard and, for that matter, Rob

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Sargon - Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:03 pm

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I agree that the (over-)sophisticated NI solution should not be copied into Zebra. But on the other hand, some metadata for patches would be appreciated: author, creation date, last modification date, notes etc.
A simple text field for some notes would be of much use, I think.


Greetings,
Michael

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Urs - Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:02 am

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Sure, some simple stuff is easy.

Will keep on thinking in that direction...

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mcl dagaz - Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:29 am

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Working as a data/information architect I love metadata! Well.. kinda.

I want to see the use of ontological forms of metadata (qv OWL) to assist with preset organisation. The basic hierarchical structure that we see today would/could be the starting point - no change. However such a metadata system would allow us users to tag presets in such a way that it reflects our idiolect.

Developing an equivalent standard 'business vocabulary' for sound designers would be rather difficult I suspect A formal and standard ontology for sound design seems very unlikely... but building up from your personal view in a way that say delicious does and using those tags to facilitate navigation would be excellent. The storage mechanism might OWL or something else... it is this social tagging and the networking of those tags that delivers the value to folks like you and me.

Using an interconnected set of sound designers each labelling their sounds and building a 'folksonomy'... well that would be very welcome indeed. That has got to be doable surely?

Then again, given the choice of better and improved VSTs or a diversion like this which would we rather have? Metadata or not, I would rather the focus was on the core of the VST design.

But I suspect that sooner or later someone will get into using semantic approaches for sound design metadata. When they do, it will be awesome.

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Urs - Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:54 am

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I don't really think I understand what you just posted, but it sounds interesting...

As can be seen, a lot of work on my side recnetly went into patches: Improvements to patch browser, faster patch loading, gui remembers patch/location, Midi Program Changes planned, collapsable directory structure planned, support for longer filenames in module preset browser, improvements/fixes to patch scripting engine etc.

It's unfortunate that I hadn't had this complexity in mind when I started the engine a couple of years ago. I have obviously been too focussed on complexity/modularity management, cpu optimization and interface design. Changes to the patch organization are tough. Even though the patch browser seems rudimentary, the underlying structure is not. In fact, I think the patch organization already exceeds 20% of the overall code.

I assume that an "intelligent" solution which has to maintain a database would be a serious enterprise. Just look at the memory side: Zebra's memory footprint for patches currently consists just of the directory tree and the list of patches within the current directory. That's quite easy. But considering that there are nearly 4000 patches available already, maybe more than 10k within a year or two, a database will have a serious amount of data to crunch, and probably keep in memory. Or, it needs a sophisticated file access scheme, much like sample streaming...

So, d'oh... we'll see where it goes...

Cheers,

Urs

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Howard - Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:57 am

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About the paradox of choice:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/93

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mcl dagaz - Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:43 am

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Urs - yeah I think the kind of thing I was talking about is very much aspirational and I suspect that it would have to be independent from any VST/VSTi... and work via an API. No idea how feasible that is - I know nothing at all about the limitations in this respect of the VST standard.

Besides which I think you are rightly focused on 'complexity/modularity management, cpu optimization and interface design'!

I have collected (tagged) many articles at delicious for my own research purposes. Some here: http://del.icio.us/mikeCL/tagging

This article is a reasonable one: http://www.iskoi.org/doc/folksonomies.htm

Be warned though it tends to be all a bit dry and academic!

More realistically(?) can we have the mouse wheel change parameters on MFM2, Zebra etc? I.e. hover the mouse over a control for 'focus' (or click for focus) and then wheel away.

It surprises and frustrates me that we have this rather obvious control device on our mouses (sic) and most of the time we cannot use it for adjusting parameters on the vast majority of audio software.

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tboulette - Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:44 am

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I would say that your focus has resulted in what is on most folks' short list for best virtual synth ever. I would also say that, as nice as snazzy patch browser/organization/metadata/espresso-making facilities would be, all of that is far secondary to the SOUND, the balance achieved between options and ease of programming, and the efficiency of the engine.

Now, as much as I'd like that espresso option , I wouldn't want to trade any of that for it. Just my $.02....

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jupiter8 - Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:54 am

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That works on Z2 on my computer.

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Urs - Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:09 am

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Yeah... it should work... even without "focussing" the control...

It will however be optional at some point... I'm gonna try to make some behaviours customizable, such as modifier keys, control focus (for keyboard input) etc...

That and skin support... when Zebra 1.0 came out, people were complaining about the waste of screen estate. Zebra 2's screen is exactly the same size but now people complain how it's too tiny. Sigh...

Later,

Urs

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