KVR :: Off Topic Classics » Dr Who [View Original Topic]
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aMUSEd - Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:04 pm

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7325727.stm

What is the point of them posting this the day after it's been on? - I have seen no promotion of this prior to yesterday so I missed it? I had no idea it was starting back already. Was it their idea of an April Fools joke or something? And what's happened to Torchwood? - couldn't find an episode last week and I can't seem to see one for this week either? BBC is getting hopeless.

(Also where did the old Dr Who thread go?)

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gnu23 - Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:11 pm

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I watch Torchwood (currently in Season 2 - I missed Season 1) on BBC America. Dr. Who in its current incarnation runs (ran? I'd have to check again) on the SciFi Channel and Season 3 looks to start on BBC America this week.

As for the older Dr. Who, it runs in my area almost perpetually (has since 1982 anyway) on Maryland Public Television on Saturday nights ~ 11PM to midnight.

It just occurred to me that you might be in the UK so none of this helps you at all.

And no idea where the old Dr. Who thread went. Maybe it's in the rift and Torchwood will find it...

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xoxos - Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:27 pm

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george antheil -

"Audiences in Budapest got so restless sometimes that Antheil would pull a pistol from his jacket and lay it on the piano to make people pay attention"

Apart from music, Antheil had many other pursuits. He was a corresponding reporter during World War II, contributing columns on endocrinology to Esquire, and on love advice to the Chicago Sun Syndicate. He also wrote books, including a popular autobiography, Bad Boy of Music (1945). His inventions included a patented torpedo guidance system and a broad-spectrum signal transmission system which then was called frequency skipping, co-authored with actress Hedy Lamarr.[10]

sonic screwdriver??

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Goseba - Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:33 pm

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Last episode of Torchwood is this Friday, and Dr Who starts on Saturday (5th).

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Ben [KVR] - Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:25 am

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http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=78733

?

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fandango - Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:45 am

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Just reading through that BBC article...

I'm a big fan of Davros ("Genesis of the Daleks" being my favourite), but I'm not overly keen to see him back.

I sense some fannying of the timeline to bring him back.

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GaryG - Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:58 am

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This was just the official release for press and stuff, they screened a couple of episodes for the attending journos etc. but the series proper starts on Saturday.

Anyway, hopeful Catherine Tate will lift it up a bit after that godawful Xmas episode (this years one with kylie, not the one with Tate in...)

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aMUSEd - Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:31 am

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Search didn't bring it up (does it exclude classics?)

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aMUSEd - Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:32 am

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It was dreadful wasn't it. Too self referential and celeb reverential.

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aMUSEd - Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:33 am

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Oh right that wasn't clear. As for Torchwood I'm completely lost now? Was there an episode last week but on a different day from usual? How come it's suddenly jumping to the last episode? They seem to be pissing around with scheduling.

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aMUSEd - Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:53 am

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Bollocks they switched it to a Friday - I've missed 2 episodes due to this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Torchwood_episodes

Sod them then - BitTorrent to the rescue

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pljones - Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:33 am

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They should have kept them on iPlayer longer, IMO, because of the day change. I've only missed one - and it's repeated tomorrow at 7pm in the kiddy-friendly version and the original was still on iPlayer, so I got lucky.

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aMUSEd - Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:00 pm

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iPlayer is a waste of space

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GaryG - Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:05 pm

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I really wanted to play it straight but it's such a pain to use... So many things I downloaded wouldn't play (license issues) or would play at first then decide you'd watched it too many times or something when you hadn't (and all ultimately pointless as it's *so* easy to strip the drm once you've downloaded a file). And I lost count of the number of times i turned off the 'share stuff when inactive' option only to find it re-enabled next time.

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Glassback - Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:46 pm

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They suddenly moved Torchwood to a Friday, having 2 episodes in the same week. We wouldn't have known either if I hadn't spotted it on the Sky Planner in time.

Looking forward to the new series (natch). I'm sure Catherine Tate will be fine. She doesn't look bovvered, anyway.

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kritikon - Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:07 pm

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Hmmm...I thought the last several series had poor choices for the female lead. They really should get a decent actress in for the role. I'll wait and see about Catherine Tait - can't say she thrilled with her initial episode in the last series. What's the name of that mad one who always plays gothic roles - was Beatrix summat-or-other in Harry Potter? Posh bint and all that. She'd make a fine Mrs. Who. Bring in a bit of psycopathy to darken the mood a bit.

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gnu23 - Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:11 am

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I had to go to Wikipedia to get the backstory and details of Torchwood's first season. Switching from Comcast to Verizon at my home completely discombobulated my scheduling. SciFi was channel 61, and I think is 163 on Verizon...blargh...point being I lost track of David Tennant's Doctor right after his first season, so I totally missed the setup for Torchwood's introduction.

Looking forward to Tennant Season 3 this week!

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aMUSEd - Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:54 am

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Why do they always pull shit like that for sci fi programmes??!

Oh well I just watched them both after having downloaded them from BitTorrent and they were utter shite filler episodes anyway. The last one doesn't look any better - I really don't care about Jack's psycho ex lover's grudge fest even if he is sort of Spike (in an Adam and the Ants costume)

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vurt - Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:29 pm

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ohmylard!
those adapose(sp) little blur videoesque mounds

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Glassback - Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:21 am

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The end of Torchwood was pretty damned unexpected!



New Doctor series looks promising now. I reckon Ms Tate will be pretty good fun.

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vurt - Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:14 pm

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i couldnt stop humming coffee and tv.

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GaryG - Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:48 am

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well, if they're going to play it for laughs then i think she's going to be excellent, tennant needs a foil like her.

and yeah, blur.

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beej - Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:04 am

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I was annoyed by her character in the special, and also in this new episode - I can't say it's encouraging me to tune in, but we'll see how it goes - maybe they'll do enough character development to make me warm to her.

Cool seeing ****** in the first ep though, wasn't expecting that until later in the season...

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Glassback - Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:10 am

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When has anybody, ever, in the history of Dr Who, liked a new assistant straight away? They always take time to get used to.

I was going to mention "that" brief encounter. It certainly made us go " "!

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vurt - Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:26 am

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dr who at the proms :lolz:

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donkey tugger - Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:22 am

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Last weeks episdoe was a bit cack, but so was 'new earth' last year. This weeks should be better. Peter Capaldi in it too. Let's have a bit of Malcom Tucker invective. Probably not mind, family show and that; "f**k off doctor you daft c**t" wouldn't go down too well I'll wager.

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nuffink - Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:39 am

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Come back Bonnie Langford, all is forgiven.

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vurt - Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:16 pm

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was tonights as bad as it seemed?

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fandango - Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:04 pm

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Hmmmm... I dunno. My folks used to put masking tape over all the windows and glasses during the Bonnie Langford era.

BBC iPlayer is shit. Missed Dr Who tonight and I'm trying to watch it but getting "Buffering..." every 10 seconds. It's like RealPlayer all over again.

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GaryG - Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:17 pm

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well, the monsters were cool...

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Sonic Assault - Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:49 pm

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I can think of one - Leela.

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Glassback - Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:37 am

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Funnily enough, I've recently been watching Tom Baker meeting his new assistant, Leela, on UK TV Gold.
Prior to that, was the only ever assistantless storyline ever filmed, set on Galifree. Great stuff.

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pljones - Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:39 am

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I thought it was a "classic Dr Who" episode. Not necessarily a great episode, just it reminded me a lot of '80 series. I could imagine Tom Baker in it.

I then watched one of the Verity Lambert "Daleks" episodes from BBC4 and had a laugh at the "city" model. I think they must have shared modelers with Blue Peter.

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fandango - Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:40 am

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I always kinda like Romana II. She and the doctor were blatantly... well... y'know.

* cue dodgy BBC bedspring bouncing sound effect... *

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fandango - Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:33 am

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Amazed no-one's mentioned the last episode, "Planet of the Ood", I thought it was really well done. Great pacing, nice effects, etc.

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Glassback - Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:37 am

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Agreed on all counts.

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pljones - Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:25 am

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Someone on another forum triggered the "It's for kids, get over it" response when complaining about this ep. I refrained from replying about the body count...

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fandango - Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:43 am

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pljones: I'd be curious to hear what you didn't like about it. And you won't get an "It's for kids, get over it" response from me... some of us are still kids at heart.

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GaryG - Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:23 am

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I found it the plot a bit predictable, I know there are only so many storylines but this was template dr who i thought.

And it was classic Who in the 'running around quarry/deserted industrial works' stakes...

And I thought the bit at the end where the ood are freed and all the security doods just layed down their guns and milled about all rather silly.

And what is it with their guns? 41st century and we're still using bullets?! Not a future I want to live in, give me my raygun dammit...

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pljones - Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:41 pm

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Apart from the points GaryG just made, I didn't mind it. Like I said, it was someone else's comment that got that riposte. I guess there's a balance between "classic" (in the sence of "old skool") and "formulaic" and maybe this fell just the wrong side: I gave it 6/10, which I feel is fair. Definitely a "could do better" .

(My objection to the "it's for kids" response here was that I don't think you can use it to defend an unsophisticated level of story-telling and also expect the kids to be sophisticated enough to understand the subtleties of on-screen killing at the same time...)

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fandango - Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:33 am

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That's a fair point, and I did laugh when the security guys seemed to just wander around aimlessly. As though the work bell had just rang and it was time to go home for dinner. I was just curious to know a bit more about the Ood and it's your classic liberated slaves style story.

I guess I'm trying to be as optimistic as possible before Davros get pulled out of the archive wheelie bin for some camp Blofeld-esque escapades. It's a shame, because "Genesis of the Daleks" really hit on the whole fascism/nazism/eugenics topics in quite a mature way, hopefully they won't dumb things down for the finale.

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robojam - Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:21 am

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Just saw this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7364663.stm

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Blank_Frank - Tue May 20, 2008 11:29 am

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Russell T Davies to step down as executive producer of Doctor Who.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7411177.stm

Steven Moffat to take over!

Much as I've nothing but admiration for RTD for bringing it back, I've got to say I think this will be a step in the right direction. I'm now!

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nuffink - Tue May 20, 2008 11:31 am

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It's jumped the shark. It needs a rest for a few years.

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aMUSEd - Tue May 20, 2008 11:39 am

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Maybe - the current season so far has been poor to middling. However Moffat is a great writer (Joking Apart one of the finest sitcoms I've seen and he's written some of the best Dr Who episodes so far) so I have some hope of a revival.

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Blank_Frank - Tue May 20, 2008 11:43 am

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Unfortunately I suspect it was RTD's scripts that were the shark-jumpingest, and his influence on the show as a whole may also be to blame. Based on his previous stories, I think Steven Moffat understands that kids (and big kids ) like to be scared. When I watched it as a kid I was so scared I nearly pissed myself; when I watch RTD's stories I piss myself laughing.

Still, as I say, respect to the guy for bringing it back...

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GaryG - Tue May 20, 2008 1:13 pm

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Agreed. Which is a bit of a shame because I think Catherine Tate is working out well overall, just the material is sadly lacking...

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beej - Tue May 20, 2008 1:50 pm

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+1

I'm a big fan of Steven Moffat since Press Gang / Joking Apart and was happy to see that both my favourite New Who eps were both his.

I'm glad you liked Joking Apart, it's a big secret fave of mine and everytime I dig it out and play it for someone new they always end up falling over laughing - gosh, a sitcom that's *actually* (really) funny!

I had a brief chat to him back in the nineties - I posted to some newsgroup about how I loved Press Gang and he was gracious enough to drop me a thank you via email.

Russell T Davies' own penned stories were almost invariably very poor (as was Torchwood) and I think probably he bit off more than he could chew with the production, script re-writing *and* his own complete episodes to write. And I can't say I think he's a particularly good writer, either...

So... if Steven's in, I will make an effort to watch - I've skipped most of this season. Let's hope they've given Catherine Tate the shove by then...

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aMUSEd - Tue May 20, 2008 1:53 pm

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Joking Apart is outrageously funny - I choked on many a scene.

It's also very sexy

Such a shame it never got the recognition it deserved - imho it's better than The Office and up there with Faulty Towers.

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beej - Tue May 20, 2008 2:11 pm

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Yep - JA and Spaced are my two top all-time favourite comedy programs...

"Oh look, you've shaved your cat..."

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robojam - Wed May 21, 2008 3:13 am

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Spaced is definitely an underrated show

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fandango - Wed May 21, 2008 3:22 am

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I sometimes wonder if we'll see an older Dr Who ever again?

Christopher Eccleston and David Tennant are obviously young, extatic and animated. However, there was much that was nice about the older, wiley and wiser approach of Troughton, Pertwee etc.

(in fact, I'd wished that Derek Jacobi had stayed on as the Master in the last season, now that I think of it, he'd make a pretty good Doctor...)

Alas, has to be young blokes, bright flashing lights, overuse of CGI etc. or the TV generation get bored quickly.

Yours Sincerely,
Old Fart.

(pleased that RTD has moved on though)

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Scot Solida - Wed May 21, 2008 4:00 am

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I couldn't agree more. The new Who started off quite well with Eccleston (who seemed at least a little strange and alien), and while Tennant is good at what he does, I think the youthful Doctor and the addition of the 'soap opera" romance angle has been beaten to death. And I really disliked the depiction of The Master. The Jacobi Master was quite promising, but the younger, wisecracking Master lacked any real menace whatsoever. The actor was fine, but the Master portrayed in the script was no Anthony Ainley, and he sure as hell wasn't up to Roger Delgado's standards. However, that episode was far superior to that travesty of a Christmas special.

The original Doctor was an engaging character for two decades. This new team seems to have run out of steam after two years. I think an older Doctor (Bill Nighy!) would, oddly enough, rejuvenate the show by removing this romantic crutch the writers keep falling back on ("oh, Doctor, pleeeease stop comparing pity poor me to your previous girl").

There have been some great moments and, so far, I think they have outnumbered the missteps, but if the show doesn't get a kick in the pants from the new producer, it may end up tarnishing the legacy of the original.

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aMUSEd - Wed May 21, 2008 5:07 am

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If they keep flogging that "we're not a couple line" right through the series I'm going to throw something at the TV. Yep the soap and comedy stuff is getting OTT now - a little is fine but not when it begins to dominate everything else and whole plots (like the ludicrous Fat episode and the Xmas one) revolve around laughs and celebs.

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vurt - Wed May 21, 2008 5:09 am

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im just waiting for the spin off "jenny who?"
you knew it was coming as soon as she regenerated

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vurt - Wed May 21, 2008 5:12 am

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you probably want to avoid the next couple of episodes then...

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GaryG - Wed May 21, 2008 7:30 am

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Now there's an excellent idea! He could even play it either way: very serious (like, say, in Gideons Daughter) or very flunky ('Love, Actually')

I've just admitted I've seen 'Love, Actually' haven't I?

Shit...

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nuffink - Wed May 21, 2008 7:33 am

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or...

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Scot Solida - Wed May 21, 2008 7:38 am

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Nighy was considered during the initial casting of the show, if I recall correctly. I think he'd be fantastic.

I just wish the stream of classic Doctor Who DVDs would pick up the pace a bit. There are so many great episodes that have gone unreleased. Quite a lot of the Hartnell and Troughton episodes are still intact (and those that aren't could even be released, judging from the excellent job done with "The Invasion"), but have yet to see the light of day. I'd dearly love War Games on DVD, and the fact that Terror of the Autons has not been released is somewhat surprising, given both the effect it had on popular culture at the time and the fact that the revamped Doctor Who referenced the baddies in its very first episode.

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valley - Wed May 21, 2008 7:47 am

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Bill Nighy or Alan Rickman would make great Doctors for me.

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vurt - Wed May 21, 2008 7:49 am

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stephen fry too. the slightly comical campness and knowledge within. plus hes my fave human alive.

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Scot Solida - Wed May 21, 2008 7:53 am

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Oh yeah, Stephen Fry would be fantastic. Alan Rickman for Master. Yep. That'd about it do it for me...

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selfconstruct - Wed May 21, 2008 8:37 am

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We get it on TV here (I was surprised to learn). Am I alone in finding that scottish bloke's nostril flaring a bit excessive? The first episode I saw (since I of Withnail and I was Doctor) was the Doctor battling satan (or mindless satan beast - it was difficult) and the nostril flaring was hellish.

I grew up with Tom Baker as Doctor though.

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hackenslash - Wed May 21, 2008 9:45 am

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Deffo. Stephen Fry is among my favourite people, and a very good actor, too.

Can't stand Catherine Tate. She doesn't fit, IMO. Billie Piper and Freema Agyeman were pretty good.

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robojam - Wed May 21, 2008 9:58 am

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Me too. Could never work out what anyone found funny about Catherine Tate, I just find her irritating.

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vurt - Wed May 21, 2008 10:00 am

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if you have never seen the catherine tate show you have no right to say that. think shes annoying in dr who, you aint seen nuthin.

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aMUSEd - Wed May 21, 2008 10:02 am

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Me three Bring back Freema!


And who is this Nighy guy?

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robojam - Wed May 21, 2008 10:02 am

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I have seen it, and you're right - I could watch her for hours on end in Dr Who if the alternative was to watch her own show.

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vurt - Wed May 21, 2008 10:05 am

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shauns step dad in shaun of the dead.

i think he was slartibartfast in hhttg too.

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aMUSEd - Wed May 21, 2008 10:07 am

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That brings back vague memories.

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hackenslash - Wed May 21, 2008 10:32 am

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Yeah, but is she bovvered?

Absolute shite, as is most of the new "comedy" on British TV these days. Her and Ricky Gervaise... (where's the puke smiley?)

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hackenslash - Wed May 21, 2008 10:35 am

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Also played Viktor in Underworld, and Davy Jones in Pirate of the Caribbean, as well as doing the really incredibly dull narration on Meerkat Manor.

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aMUSEd - Wed May 21, 2008 10:48 am

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I don't think I've watched those.

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robojam - Wed May 21, 2008 10:51 am

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No, she's not bovvered, and she says so every 5 minutes. I wonder if she realizes that if it's not funny the first time, it isn't going to be funny the 5,000th time.

Talentless crap.

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valley - Wed May 21, 2008 11:00 am

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All of that repetition based humour[1] went over my head. I never cared for Vic Reeves and Bob Mortimer, and it seems like 15 years later it's still all variations on the same crap. I realize I'm in the minority though,

Though, as I'm writing this, I'm casting my mind back to the 80s and recalling Russ Abbot, that fat f-ck Beadle, and Noel Edmonds/Mr Blobby, and realizing that 80% of comedy on British TV just plain bit then too. How was there ever a market for that crap?

[1] actually, way back in the day, Hale and Pace (who usually sucked) managed to make me laugh with a variation on that theme, as two idiots that counted everything. The set-ups were actually what made those skits amusing though.

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GaryG - Wed May 21, 2008 2:51 pm

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Alan Rickman... can you imagine the air of withered contempt he could conjour up in the part...

But what do I know, seeing as I seem to be the only one here who actually likes Catherine Tate in the role (much better than Freema Agyeman imo, so wooden...) And let's not forget she was in Big Train, much funnier than her series.

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Glassback - Fri May 23, 2008 6:30 am

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Yeah, when we watched that episode, we were actually hoping that they wouldn't regen her. Then they did and off she went like some kind of Space Rebel, born to be wild, heading out on the space highway and looking for adventure. You just know there's a series coming.


Just caught up with the newest episode (Agatha Christie) and we thought it was fab. But then, I seem to be one of the few people who seem to be able to just let my imagination go and enjoy every story just for what it is. I loved the good Doctor when I was a kid and I still love him now.
I wasn't entirely sure about Catherine Tate at first, but she's doing OK, better by the episode I'd say, although I did prefer Freema of the 3 assistants so far. I also enjoy the wit and style of Tennant as a Doctor.

All in all, long may it all continue, say I.

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aMUSEd - Fri May 23, 2008 6:41 am

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Jenny's a fox

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nuffink - Fri May 23, 2008 6:45 am

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I reckon from the teaser in ep1 that they're going to dangle a Rose/Billie return for the next series.

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Blank_Frank - Fri May 23, 2008 7:01 am

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...and played by Peter Davison's daughter. Nice touch...

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Big Karma - Fri May 23, 2008 7:04 am

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nice bit of info to know - ta for that

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fandango - Fri May 23, 2008 7:43 am

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So Doctor Who really did have a daughter...

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vurt - Fri May 23, 2008 8:33 am

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just remember kiddiwinks, no dr who this week for the eurovision.
at last, an entertaining saturday evening on the box.

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Glassback - Fri May 23, 2008 9:16 am

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You only say that cos you wish you could write songs of such a high caliber.

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Big Karma - Fri May 23, 2008 9:17 am

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I have no problem with doctor who being replaced with euroviz - I hate watching it every year but some how manage to really enjoy it at the same time. Wonder if we will come last this time round Have only heard the song once but think it is quite euro friendly!

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vurt - Fri May 23, 2008 9:22 am

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i have no problem either, its the maps festival weekend so im out anyway

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aMUSEd - Fri May 23, 2008 9:24 am

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Oh crap - why can't they put it on after or something?

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vurt - Fri May 23, 2008 9:32 am

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dunno, im not in charge of scheduling i just saw an advert
dont shoot the messenger


actually its because afterwards everyone will be out celebrating our glorious win, seeing as weve already f**ked up in the football.

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Big Karma - Fri May 23, 2008 9:37 am

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Looks like a cool place to be going - have a grand old time!! You performing?

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vurt - Fri May 23, 2008 9:41 am

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not at maps, i was too late getting my application in.
we have futuresonic coming up later in the year though and theres an event on at the sci and ind. museum that im hoping to be billed for :fingerscrossed:

kinda glad im not playing as its the start of a week off college so im going to spend the next 3 days extremely drunk and not have to worry about recovery


we also have the manchester noise festival in october at urbis, but im too old to perform wtf?

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Big Karma - Fri May 23, 2008 9:52 am

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Blimey sounds like a summer to look forward to, hope you get the gigs!

Enjoy getting drunk hehe!

Anyway, BOT - Doctor Who rox!!

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rifftrax - Fri May 23, 2008 10:33 am

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erm. smallville all the way. I think dr. who has about half the production effort as a good episode of heroes or 24....

the musical scores for it though? top-notch. just not enough to make up for the wonky storyline.

just stirring up some trouble here

heck - I'll just give 2 examples - the color post (especially) and aftereffects/quake type integration for effects is way below the standard that I'm used to from a lot of "American" shows. Torchwood does do really really well with blood fx though (but that's more in the make-up department). I remember a episode of Heroes however where a guy who catches on fire everytime he gets mads literally explodes a house after lighting the thing up completely and Haley goes in there to get something (can't remember now) and the fire effects were probably some of the best I've ever seen for a t.v. show period...

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griels - Fri May 23, 2008 10:48 am

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I don't think the BBC ever concerned itself with the quality of its (visual) special FX

That was part of the charm (at least for me). If anything, it's a bit too slick for my liking now

(The sound FX were a different matter, Delia Derbyshire and the Radiophonic Workshop were miracle workers).

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rifftrax - Fri May 23, 2008 10:51 am

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right - that's the one thing that drew me in about it.

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vurt - Fri May 23, 2008 11:07 am

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thats part of the problem for me, theyre not leaving anything to the imagination, its like tv for the add generation, too much noise not enough signal.

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aMUSEd - Fri May 23, 2008 11:10 am

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Speaking of Heroes - is it just going to fizzle out after 11 episodes? is there any point in watching it?

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griels - Fri May 23, 2008 11:41 am

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I concur, who cares if a show's in 1080p with Pixar special effects, the question is whether it ignites your imagination.

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GaryG - Fri May 23, 2008 1:53 pm

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I've never got into Heroes for some reason, really tried but... didn't happen... Anyway, I think I saw the bit you describe; where the cheerleader gets burnt to a crisp then comes out and 'regenerates' (snigger)? Has to be said that was pretty amazing, miles beyong anything UK telly puts out.

So, I disagree with the 'leave it to the imagination' argument with respect sfx; you certainly don't need big effects and some stories positively shine without them (eg. "blink" in last seasons dr who, maybe my favourite of the entire 'new' who run) But if you're going to use them then cheap, crappy ones can totally ruin a story. I guess I'm saying either leave it totally to the imagination or do it properly, half-arsed sfx just hint at what could be without delivering.

But enough negativity, let's be positive about Dr Who: It ain't as bad as Primeval...

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griels - Sat May 24, 2008 12:01 am

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Those half-arsed sfx didn't seem to matter to 50s sci-fi fans.

IMO, those big-budget, beautifully shot, polished CGI spectaculars seem to lack something present in spades in the original Dr Who - character. Show me a show with the compelling acting of Tom Baker. Those rickety Daleks and Cybermen may appear laughable by today's standards, but that ricketiness added a certain human charm, lacking in 99% of modern sci-fi.

It'll certainly be interesting to see how we judge today's sci-fi with the benefit of hindsight. Historically, the stunning special effects of today have been the cringeworthy gimmicks of tomorrow.

Still, we do seem to be reaching the zenith with regards to special effects. But at the end of the day, we are still watching on a screen, and need to somehow be persuaded to transport ourselves to another universe. To me, that's more about compelling characters than anything else.

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GaryG - Sat May 24, 2008 1:55 pm

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Without wanting to sound superior, they didn't know any better. No one does, as you rightly say, stuff that looks convincing now can look embaressing in just a few short years. I'm sure we've all seen some fifties movie with a guy in a rubber suit and wonder how on earth anyone ever found it frightening, but they did, it was new, hadn't been seen before. The same with Dr Who, I can watch old episodes and be amazed how awful some of the effects are but I certainly never thought that as a kid.

But that isn't really my argument, I agree totally about a lot of big fx movies lacking soul - Transformers... looked great but failed on every level to grab the imagination. Cloverfield, not really a big fx film per se, much more people focussed and all the better for it (ok, contentious, i know i'm in the minority who liked it... )

What I am saying is I find cheap effects nowadays distracting, spend the budget on a half decent set and make up and the rest on a great writer and you'll have a much better show than a mediorcre script with dodgy, on-the-cheap cgi (it all comes back to Primeval... ).

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