KVR :: Hosts (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.) » Magix drop Samplitude dongle... [View Original Topic]
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christianmusicmaker - Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:36 am

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Samplitude 10 with no dongle and only a few limitations...

http://www.samplitude.com/eng/seq/shop.html

* Limitations of the download version: Independence LE not included
* Impulse responses for Offline Convolution Reverb not included
* Content for Auto Jam Session not included
* Demo content not included
* Printed manual not included
* DVD not included


It's heating up in the host market. I think Magix are responding to Logics drop of "le dongle" last year.

Interesting...

Might Steinberg follow I wonder?

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HobbyCore - Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:38 am

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If it were on mac, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

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original flipper - Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:43 am

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HI

It's unfortunate that as one company drops using a dongle another takes it up: LinPlug.

Flipper.

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christianmusicmaker - Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:48 am

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It is impressive. I think the price is lower as well. Much lower.

Samplitude 10 Pro = £786 or 999 Euros

This version which appears to be the full V10 pro is £295 = 375 Euros.

Unless there is a catch somewhere, that is some drop in price considering the limitations (no track or plugin limitation I can see) are minimal IMO.

I think most potential buyers could probably not miss any of the limitations apart from maybe a printed manual, but I doubt even that is a big deal as I think a PDF manual is available.

I think it's a major move by Magix. Samplitude seemed too pricey but that looks like it's maybe about to change.



Maybe Linplug are being hit too hard by piracy. It looks like dongle for hosts though might be a thing of the past before long.

Logic and now Samplitude all in less than a year. I wonder how long the dongled version will remain considering the price difference is so high compared to the DLV of Samp. Interesting times.

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Teksonik - Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:58 am

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$549 for a host with limitations...............Hmmm good luck with that. They should drop more than the Dongle.

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aallvor - Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:02 am

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AFAICS, None of it's core features have been limited or removed, just some of the 'extras'

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HobbyCore - Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:03 am

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Limitations?

It just looks like a bunch of 'content' isn't included That's fine by me because It's completely useless. Installing logic I made sure to not install the 'content' and deleted most of it that made it on.

I think it'd be well worth it, samplitude is an absolutely excellent product.... but I just absolutely hate windows.

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Teksonik - Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:12 am

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From the News Release page here at KVR:

"Magix has announced the availability of a download version of Samplitude 10 which is a limited version of Samplitude"

Doesn't matter what the limitations are.................so the content is worth another 650 Euros (1012.00 US Dollars) ???? Riiiiight. Good luck with that.

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HobbyCore - Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:20 am

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I think the better point is that the boxed version is over-priced, not that the download is improperly priced.

$500 for a host that is as full-featured, stable and well-supported as samplitude is an excellent price. It's at least on par with logic and surpasses it in many areas (particularly support and stability), and logic is also $499.

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MountainKing - Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:27 am

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Just wondering if I'm getting it right:

This download version is SAM 10 (former "Classic") .... not SAM 10 Pro; right?

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Kraznet - Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:29 am

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Just to clarify this is NOT Samplitude Pro . It's based on Samplitude 10 (formerly known as Samplitude Classic) which is limted to to 64 stereo/mono tracks with 8 plug ins per insert and 8 VSTi's per project . Also it's limited to 8 submix and 6 auxbusses .However it allows sample rates up to 384khz and 32 bit float including rendering at 16/24/32bit and is is octo-core optimized (Unlike Samplitude Music Studio) It also includes the full version of Variverb and the Vinage FX Suite but lacks Ammunition and the Analog Modelling Suite. It also includes the HQ timestretch/pitchshift algo .You can use it for 30 days without a serial and theres no intrusive cp . For anyone wanting to get a taste of Samplitude it seems like a good deal to me .

Regards
Kraznet

PS It also includes the Audio Quantize engine , sidechaining plus full track and object automation .

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christianmusicmaker - Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:46 am

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Ok...so that is the catch...

It's a good first step by Magix but for 64 tracks it's a bit pricey. Having said that the octocore optimization, full version of Variverb, 8 inserts is not bad. Not bad at all. Had they removed the track / bus limitation it would have been much more appealing but a nice crossgrade price might be of interest...I could do with a heavyweight Editor and I prefer samp to other Editors out there.

A bit pricey still IMO, but a good first step from Magix.

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HobbyCore - Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:56 am

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I take back my comments earlier in the thread....

That's not at all worth the asking price.


Magix had a chance to do something really great, and they managed to screw it up. Oh well, not on mac so it's irrelevant to me (which makes me wonder why I keep commenting )

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Kraznet - Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:10 am

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Logic Studio 8 and even Logic Express 8 is without doubt the best deal of any DAW but I guess Apple can afford to make such a big price drop .

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birrbits - Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:15 am

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aMUSEd - Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:20 am

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Wow this is tempting - I certainly don't need more than 64 tracks that's for sure (my average project will have 6 at most and often just 2-3) and the object based editing is very interesting to me

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Xenakios - Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:29 am

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You've used Reaper, right? What does Reaper's object ("media item") based editing lack compared to Samplitude? For me Samplitude held some interest up to the point Reaper got the per-take-fx...

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aMUSEd - Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:35 am

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I'd like something like the all in one object editor for starters

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HobbyCore - Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:41 am

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Already a reaper discussion by page 2... you guys are kinda off the ball today eh?

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Xenakios - Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:43 am

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Yeah well, I'm sorry about that... I am not usually interested in participating in the Reaper "discussions" here...

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christianmusicmaker - Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:49 am

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Hmmm I just tried to download the 30 day demo /free trial and Wibu's Codemeter software gets installed.

If you only need a serial why does the same software used for the dongle (Wibu code Meter)get installed?

Magix should be more open about this IMO. My Firewall picked this up...



The code meter icon is running in my System tray (XP).So it is definitely there.

I thought it would be a simple serial like Cakewalk or Apple but it seems like a type of software CP. The same software used for the dongle.

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Kraznet - Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:56 am

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I guess as I have a Codemeter already it didn't need to install it on my machine when ran the setup .

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HobbyCore - Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:01 am

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Since you've done so much (relatively at least) for the reaper community, what would samplitude 'need' to make you re-interested?

I'm curious what samplitude is lacking from someone 'formerly interested'. Or is it perhaps that it's not and you found something comparable with other benefits?

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Xenakios - Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:13 am

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While I probably won't need insane amounts of tracks (over 64, likewise for the groups/auxes) in any real-life situation, spending over 300 euros for a limited software in that regard isn't very appealing, on principle...

It's difficult to say if there's anything in particular Samplitude should get in the future to make me re-interested...Lower the price for the whole real deal and the ability for 3rd parties to make software functionality extensions, maybe? But Reaper does just fine for me at the moment...Things can change, of course...

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MitchK1989 - Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:54 am

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WRONG.

GOOD GOD.

HOW CAN PEOPLE BE THIS STUPID?

I've said it again and again. LINPLUG SOFTWARE DOES NOT AND WILL NOT REQUIRE A DONGLE. It's uses synchrosoft powered CHALLENGE/RESPONSE or an OPTIONAL dongle.

Jesus christ.

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djanthonyw - Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:57 am

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Looks like some companies are starting to see the light, and Logic isn't even really competition for Magix!

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TheoM - Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:20 am

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Thanks. I needed that laugh. That makes the WHOLE thing useless, and for over 300 Euros?



Ok, 64 tracks, ok, 8 inserts, but 8 vsti PER project?

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Kraznet - Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:35 am

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I guess thats one thing extra to temp you to buy the full version . Anyway I'm sure you're very happy with you new MacPro with Logic ttoz

BTW you can now snap automation curve points although still no numerical input of values.

Regards
Kraznet

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original flipper - Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:01 am

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HI


MitchK1989 wrote:



You throw your insults around pretty freely don't you Mitch?

Yea, the dongle is optional to a licence - the licence is an option to a dongle: so where am I wrong?

You either use one or the other: both a PITA IMO.

So perhaps you should think things through before insulting people next time.

BTW, I think an 8 VST limit is a bit of a killer for such an expensive host.

Flipper.

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Kraznet - Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:21 am

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Maybe if you using individual single output synths yes . But you can assign multiple outputs per VSTi . So for example you can have 16 outs for Kontakt or the like . So 16 x 8 gives you 128 tracks of Kontakt . Also you could also freeze the VSTi if you need to add another Synth past the 8 limit .

Regards
Kraznet

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Kraznet - Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:28 am

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BTW if you use Yellow Tools Independence Pro 2.1 it even allows you to host VSTi's inside that application

http://www.yellowtools.us/cp21/cms/index.php?id=794

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aMUSEd - Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:53 am

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I think the limits are not justified at that price point but all the same afaik this is 8 VST's per track - not a major problem and I would tend to be using KORE or Bidule to chain stuff for most things anyway.

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spritex - Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:23 am

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IMO, such a price for the limited version is almost arrogant.

You can get the whole Logic Studio for less than that, and even Logic Express isn't crippled in any practical sense.

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HobbyCore - Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:31 am

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This is simply not practice workflow for a large number of potential customers.

I don't do much electronic music, but when I do, quickly moving back and forth between 10+ synths is not at all uncommon. Even being primarily a rock musician/recordist I would feel very limited by 8 VSTi's.

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aMUSEd - Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:39 am

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Ah I reread it - it's 8 plugins per insert but only the ones that come with Samp - for VSTi's it's 8 per project - that does suck unless you're using a chainer.

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spritex - Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:41 am

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Anyway, how is a samplitude as a VSTi/fx host? I always had the impression that it's better as an audio DAW?

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aMUSEd - Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:45 am

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I had the free SE version 9 on my system before I reinstalled my system and it managed well enough though it had no freeze (I'm told it has a great freeze in the other versions).

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Cap'n Spanky - Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:20 am

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They seem to be a bit too proud of their software, IMO. I purshased version 7 a few years back and refused to pay the upgrade price after that. Upgrades were nearly twice what other DAW makers charge. Samplitude your good but not THAT good (imho)

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TheoM - Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:27 am

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Of course I am happy with Logic, it's amazing, but surely that doesn't mean I can't read other topics and post opinions, does it?

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ughnonumus - Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:34 am

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Didn't Linplug used to be the darling of the VSTi market? IMO, they have the tech expertise; no idea how to run a business. However, this is typical in most Internet-based ventures.

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kingswood6 - Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:44 am

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They're obviously going for the impulse buy. But that price for a stripped down version of the stripped down version?

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christianmusicmaker - Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:45 am

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Yes a great product but not *that* good. I think it costs £200 a year to upgrade from the latest Samp Pro version to the next. I think it has easily the most expensive upgrade path compared to it's closest rivals feature wise(Cubase, Sonar, Logic).

Logic studio bundled with Soundtrack Pro 2 can be had for as little as £150 or less on Ebay...*new*.

I would be very happy to have a copy of Samp but either Magix cannot afford to drop the price to a more competitive level or they *can* afford to perhaps get the bulk of their income from their consumer level products and maintain or even increase the upgrade price for samplitude Pro.

A few years ago it was about £150 - £170 (every 18 months or so) it's £200 every year now. Far too pricey IMO. But it remains a great product just not competitive price wise with similar products.

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siriusbliss - Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:00 am

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Bootcamp.

Greg

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siriusbliss - Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:02 am

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excellent as a VST host.
I've never had a concern.

Greg

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siriusbliss - Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:05 am

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IT's a good deal!

Greg

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siriusbliss - Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:09 am

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Or just plugin EnergyXT and add VST routing that way.

This per project VST deal is NOT really a limitation compared to what else you get with Samplitude.

it's apples to oranges comparisons to other hosts in this price-range anyways, so why worry?

Greg

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Coxy - Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:16 am

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Never!!!!

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HobbyCore - Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:23 am

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I hate windows. It's a steaming pile of shit.

In order to get things working well, you have to go through some trouble, disable half the computer.. for what? Making music every once in a while?

Or I can just open a box with a mac in it, turn it on, install logic and start working on a project at 64 samples latency. Get bored for a second? Go browse the web, or answer IM's during playback or check back and forth between my music library in itunes... you know, be functional.

I own 5 windows daw licenses, and I will not be using any of them ever again. One of them happens to be samplitude (v9)

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Kraznet - Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:00 pm

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[quote="ttoz"][quote="Kraznet"]

Of course you can . I always enjoy reading your posts anyway.

Regards
Kraznet

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hibidy - Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:20 pm

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sounds interesting, but I just don't have it in me to learn YET ANOTHER host

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captain caveman - Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:26 pm

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The upgrade price is the thing that has put me off buying Samplitude Pro - it's rediculous if you skip a version.

As for whether or not they can afford price dropping, click here to see that maybe they cannot unless they sell a lot more units.

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billybk1 - Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:00 pm

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Holy smokes! That is not a promising trend for shareholders or for the end users for that matter.

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HobbyCore - Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:40 pm

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I'm sorry, but logic 8 studio is the exact same price in the US and offers _far_ more. Cubase is quite close on the PC side along with sonar..

Samplitude's limited idea here is certainly apples and oranges with any other major sequencer in the range, it should be compared perhaps with limited versions of cubase or home studio.

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christianmusicmaker - Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:02 pm

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Thanks for the link, that does not look good. Maybe the non dongled approach for Samplitude 10 DLV is a necessity not simply an option.

Samplitude *Pro* 11 may very well have a DLV as well. That would not surprise me.

I noticed that after starting the demo that I have to manually close the Wibu Code Meter service after I finish using Samplitude. Also the Code meter service starts up with windows automatically and runs as a background service even if Samplitude has *not* been started. I see no reason for this and find it intrusive.



I would have thought it should start when the application is started and also the software used for the dongle (Wibu code meter) should not even be in the download version if it only needs a serial.?!?!?!?

I think sadly this will be uninstalled. I'll re visit this when they drop the dongle software as well. It was worth a try I guess.

As for Price comparisons at £295 for Samplitude DLV with only 64 tracks it is in direct competition with the full flagship Sonar Producer version which costs far less and Cubase 4 (not the lesser studio version).

So for £295 Samplitude DLV is priced way above it's feature set considering the limitations it has.

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siriusbliss - Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:11 pm

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I hate WIndows, but am bored with being so locked down with Mac.
Everything you say you do I already do on three different PC's that I've totally hotrodded (whether it needed it or not is besides the point) for more audio/video editing performance.

Too bad you've spent money on licenses without getting any of them to run. Hmmmmmm....

You should sell them.

Greg

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siriusbliss - Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:15 pm

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Having used and/or owned many other hosts, including all the other 'major' Culogibendotools, I can rightly say that until you dig into Samplitude you will not realize that feature for feature has many other things that the others simply don't have.

Sorry, but Logic and Cubase do not offer more for the price, and Sonar and Nuendo need too many other tweaks or plugins to get what comes native in Samplitude.

It's too bad a $100 difference here or there throws people off from what they're really getting with the undongled Samplitude.

Greg

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HobbyCore - Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:17 pm

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I've gotten the softwares to run to my needs (very low latency, moderate track count, heavy vst usage)

The issues is that to do so, you have to cripple the OS (windows). That is completely unreasonable to me.

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Bob Nova - Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:43 pm

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That explains it. The company isnt doing well obviously and everyone knows the economy is going into the shitter in the US and EU.Time to ship some units...fast.

i think they'll have to be more aggressive than that to get people to try it or switch hosts. The major competitors have been around for a long time and have big user bases.And then there's Reaper with very aggressive pricing.

A tough time to be the guy in the middle that many DAW users have never heard of.

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Bob Nova - Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:51 pm

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Then you're obviously doing something wrong.

But no point feeding the OS Wars.

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christianmusicmaker - Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:13 pm

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Yes their pricing structure (full retail and upgrade) now seem very out of date. Also with Logics street price so low and slipping even lower over time, developers like Magix have two choices IMO...keep prices high and attempt to sustain their revenue stream that way, or drop their prices to remain competitive. I think the latter cannot be avoided at some point.

There are some superb hosts for very little cash outlay...Podium £45, Reaper £120 (or less - non commercial)..e.t.c so at some point Magix will either remove the Multicore limitation from Samplitude Music Studio (£69) or...drop the price of Samplitude DLV.

The Samplitude product line's price structure above Samplitude Music Studio is defintely looking very outdated.

The host market is certainly getting tougher. Logics price drop has hit hard. It now looks like the smaller host devs may benefit as peoples perception of Value for money host wise has changed considerably since Logic studios anouncement last year.

Apps like Podium and Reaper have progessed very well and offer very capable host feature sets that cover a lot of ground to say the least at very low cost.

There is I think pressure from both sides of the price spectrum for Magix...Logic at the top (feature wise and based on content) and smaller devs like Zynewave and Cockos.

I actually think Samplitude DLV and Samplitude Music Studio are too similar. I think there are less inserts in SMS, no multicore support and a lite version of Variverb instead of the full one that SDLV offers.

But £69 and £295 is clearly IMO *far* too much of a difference in price considering both IIRC have 64 tracks. Even if Magix clipped SMS to 48 tracks it would just make it far less competitive for it's price range.

I would drop SMS completely from the product line and bring SDLV's price down to sub £100, put a lite version of Variverb in (if that is what is pushing the price up), do away with Code meter software totally, and have a much more competitive product.

Anyway that is a problem for Magix to fix not me

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hibidy - Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:44 pm

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I'm not sure I understand this download/dongle-less version, but if it has variverb, the am suite, those fx and amunition..........that would pretty much be worth the price of admission!

ESPECIALLY, if they are vst and can be used in other hosts! God, I wish they sold amunition separate.

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tomg - Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:32 pm

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Why was it necessary for him to bash PCs in this thread about PC only software? What's he even doing here? If he's just trolling and tossing out flame bait I can deal with that. I'm still loaded from last time.

I'm getting very tired of the same old Mac FUD and lie toss routine. I have never removed anything from XP and I make music just fine. Some people may butcher their XP install but not everyone.

It's simply not true and you should narrow your wide sweeping general statements to something a little less like the ultimate Mac user wet dream and more like the truth.

Here's some truth for you. Macs were so overpriced and had so little software for so long that the only way Apple could save their 5% market share was to build PCs and run Windows. Unfortunately for Apple that hasn't worked all that well either. Only 10% of Mac software is Mac only, most of the tiny amount that is available is still PC ports.

There are more people running NT4 than OSX. Look at Win2000 and the numbers are about the same. Even Vista is installed on more machines. As bad as people think Vista is, as far as the numbers are concerned, Vista kicked OSX's ass in less than 8 months. M$ has 90% of the world OS market and XP has 83% all by itself.

Mac users are quick to point out that Mac sales have increased 61% over last year but the declining sales of the iPod and boy are they way down, still make more money for Apple than Macs do. I'll give you 2%, just for the hell of it I'll even give you 5% and make it a 10% share and it still wouldn't make any difference.

Apple is not in the OS business they are in the computer business. That difference means that I can't install OSX on anything but a new Mac but I can install XP on a 486 socket 3 66MHz w/8Meg of ram.

It also means that I have to buy a Mac to run the latest version of Logic. To me that's extortion. I admit it's a pretty low level of extortion but it still pisses me off. Not that I care if I ever boot my Mac or run Logic again, it just shows what lengths Apple will go to to sell a new computer or two.

Actually it's pretty sad that despite their attempt to convert the PC logic users to Mac by pointing a gun at their heads, it didn't work. Not even slicing the price in half, for all practical purposes selling it below or at cost has made any real impact.

Now that the iPod is in serious decline it's a good thing Apple has the iPhone and iTunes because if they were relying on computer sales it would be time to close the doors.

Mac lovers..... We have so much trouble connecting the tiny number that are out there with reality that I think it's a good thing that there are so few of them.

Even though the Mac may even be better at some things and I'm not saying it is, it doesn't matter with a 5% share. It wouldn't matter with a 10% share either. The Amiga was better than them all and you couldn't buy a new Amiga today to save your life because Windows 95 killed Commodore. The Macintosh didn't exactly die but it's been on life support ever since.

As clever as Jobs is, despite his best efforts and a huge pile of money Mac gets a 1% increase. At most companys a 1% increase in market share would get the marketing manager fired.
.

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christianmusicmaker - Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:23 am

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I am not sure I understand it either fully but I know the version of Samplitude that has all the plugs you mentioned above is Samplitude Pro 10 not Samplitude DLV which is based on Samplitude 10 (or what used to be called Samplitude classic)

Samplitude DLV appears to be based on "Samplitude 10" not "Samplitude Pro 10" a step up from "Samplitude 10"...confusing I know.

The DLV version of "Samplitude 10" probably has a feature set that is pretty much identical to "Samplitude 10" in this version comparison grid...

Variverb (full version it appears) is included in SDLV. But there is no AM suite and no Ammunition plugin. Also for some reason the Code Meter software used for the dongle is still present and used in the download version of Samplitude.

It took two attempts just to kill the process in Windows task manager and I had not even started the application (30 day free trial of the download version) yet. It seems to attempt to access the internet as well. Why this is needed for a serial number based product I do not know.

It only requires a serial (supposedly) but it appears Magix also require the Code Meter dongle copy protection software to run as well. Even though it is a download version. There is no mention of Codemeter software anywhere that I can see in the description or product listing for Samplitude DLV.

Even without Multicore support, Samplitude Music Studio looks like far better value IMO anyway as it has 64 tracks just like the Samplitude DLV version and has versions of the Vintage FX suite and Variverb as well as the full notation / Score editor from "Samplitude Pro 10" IIRC as well.

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aMUSEd - Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:42 am

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Once you have killed the CodeMeter process will Samplitude still run?

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Melkor - Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:58 am

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Good question

It better run without it, or there go the "dongle-less" version claims.

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Kraznet - Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:37 am

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It does I just tried it . I quit the tray icon and also killed the Codemeter process .

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sascha - Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:47 am

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Exactly. AM Suite (and am-munition) are included in 'Pro' only, apart other stuff. VariVerb is included in the download version. The whole thing can be seen as the 'Samplitude Classic' as it used to be the name of the app with V9.



I have to ask our Volker why the Wibu software is still included, perhaps he simply didn't want to mess with code branches and therefore issues due to version differences. There's probably a simple and unspectacular reason for this.
Just be assured that the dongle doesn't access the internet. It never had. It just wants to access 'localhost' (therefore a probabe firewall alarm). The CodeMeter software acts as a server. We needed such as Sequoia (the big code mother) is a network-capable DAW and integrates into content-management systems like those used by radio stations/post-production facilities. There's no 'phoning home' or something; we aren't interested in such.

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aMUSEd - Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:47 am

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So could it be uninstalled?

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sascha - Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:50 am

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The CM? I can't say before next week.
You may try asking in our Samplitude newcomer forum. Perhaps André or Volker are around at the weekend (they often are).

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beej - Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:06 am

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You complain about an unnecessary post, and then go into a long rant about Macs on a Samplitude thread?

I'll just put:

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headquest - Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:17 am

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I'm no expert at reading share values and relating that to future prospects, but to the uninitiated this looks simplly DIRE

Unless I misunderstand, MAGIX's value has plummetted 700% in the last three years...

How long can this company be expected to continue in those circumstances before the doors close? (an important question, surely, for anyone even considering investing in this latest version release...?)

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Hitch - Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:40 am

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Samplitude 9 SE, which came free with Computer Music magazine, was the first DAW I really got into. It was full of features and great fun to use, but eventually I became frustrated with the "lite" version's restrictions. The full version of Samplitude was far too expensive for me - in fact, it seemed far more expensive than anything else on the market - so I was forced to look around and eventually chose *cough*sorry*cough* Reaper. Admittedly, Reaper was extremely cheap due to the one-man-band nature of the development team, but Samplitude seemed excessively pricey, even for such a good program.

As for Magix needing to shift a lot of units: Samplitude is (and always has been) the worst publicised major DAW. The marketing department really needs to get its act together and start placing lots of colourful and informative adverts in the major music magazines and influential websites. Magix must drop its price and start offering cheaper upgrades, etc. It would be a shame if such a good host disappeared from the market.

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christianmusicmaker - Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:58 am

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Yes Kraznet is correct. It will still run. Which begs the question why include Codemeter software at all...?



Thanks for clearing that up sascha. My Firewall has blocked the Codemeter software and SDLV still runs so yes it looks like Volker left work early the day SDLV was finalised...no summer holidays for him unless he has taken them already

But seriously it does look like left over code as it appears to make no difference to SDLV's functionality AFAICT.

I would be interested to find out how to uninstall Codemeter as it is clearly not needed for SDLV.

Lets see there is a Codemeter runtime kit uninstall option...I'll remove it and see what happens...

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aMUSEd - Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:04 am

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I seem to remember the dongle-less Reaktor 4 installing Wibu drivers so as to enable people who had made ensembles using Reaktor 3 (that used the dongle) to open their projects so maybe that's also the case for older Samplitude projects and the drivers are installed for people who made projects with a version that used a dongle even though it is now not needed for new users? If that is the case though you'd have thought they would at least have made it optional and told users about it beforehand.

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captain caveman - Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:15 am

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I feel a bit bad now for posting a link to the share price.

In markets, the share price can have little to do with the survivability of a business, it's just a reflection on how actual profitability relates to the speculation and ratings that were applied to the stocks at different times and the subsequent rushes to buy or sell said shares.

The current credit crunch crisis for example stems from bankers investing heavily in investment vehicles that had a credit rating stamp of approval from Standard and Poors which were in fact dependant on ninjas (No Income No Job folks) paying for them. Now the entire financial world has screwed itself over in the name of easy profit and we are all paying the price.

Just a poignant example of how wrong the "whizz-kids" can get it.

So it is much "safer" to buy Samplitude than (for example) Reaper or SawStudio where if one guy dies/falls seriously ill then the product is up in the air.

Magix is profitable and has over 300 employees.

Again, apologies for scare-mongering.

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aMUSEd - Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:21 am

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Now you tell us - I've just sold my thousand shares in Magix and last thing I heard Headquest was about to jump off a tall building

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christianmusicmaker - Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:25 am

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Apologies? Too late for that now...my consortium of investors have signed the necessary papers to take over Magix and reduce the price of SDLV and the upgrade price. You really have to be careful what links you post next time. Now Magix's ownership is changing hands because of it.

Where's Volker? In my office pronto!

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headquest - Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:33 am

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Thanks for the clarification captain

<breathes sigh of relief>

I must admit that with the current economic gloom and the somewhat over-crowded host/sequencer market, I have been wondering if any of the known names might not be around in, say, 2 years from now. (e.g. Tracktion or Project 5 both seem somewhat uncertain...). Good to know that Samplitude is in safe hands

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christianmusicmaker - Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:33 am

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ok...I just uninstalled the Codemeter runtime kit...and drum roll...















































































SDLV still works. So the Codemeter software is really useless in this case and has no function in the DLV version of Samp. But it really should be removed from the installer asap, as it will start up every time with Windows.

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MountainKing - Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:58 am

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We have to state that the versions of the vintage suite and variverb are just a bit downstripped:

Variverb is included in kind of a FX sound modul which looks like this:


The vintage effects suite looks like this:



I'm probably not THE expert on effects (and their sounds) but in the end I find them quite well sounding!


If the Music Studio had just a view more features I'd never think about buying SAM 10 again (I just had it but sold it after getting and using MS2008)!

In the end: MS2008 is just a really GREAT product!

I'm looking forward to MS 2009 which has been anounced (by andy, one of the sam devs) for the christmas sales this year! Hoping that some features would be included:

- MultiCore Support
- 6 Inserts plugins per track (at least 5 were OK)
- 6 Busses and auxs

*maybejustadream???*

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memyselfandus - Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:13 am

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One cool thing about buying the download version is you
can upgrade to the full version for around $100

If you call the number on the website they will answer any questions you have.

http://www.samplitude.com/eng/seq/kontakt.html

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engine - Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:25 am

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the vst- scanning for subdirectories isnt working here.

i mean is there a way to get all the vsts shown in a structure like i installed them on my hdd? for now ~150 vsts listed in a very long dropdown- menu and im worried about my mousewheel .
iirc that was the same problem with the previous version...

i cant test it without easy vst access.

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aMUSEd - Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:43 am

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Do you mean pro or a full(er) version of classic?

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Kraznet - Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:53 am

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Try going into the Samp Program folder and find the VstPlugIns Configuration setting .Probably near the bottom . Open it in notepad and look for
"DirectoryRecursionDepth=2 ".
Try changing it to something higher and see what happens .

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koolkeys - Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:04 am

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With all due respect, for some people that limitation IS a deal breaker, regardless of what else is included. However, I don't think Samplitude is as good of a choice for many people who do rely on VSTi as it is for those working with audio. So it depends on what you need if this is a limitation. But IMO it's a catch-22.

*Those who work with primarily audio won't need more than 8 VSTi slots.
*MOST people don't need 64 tracks.
*However, the professional crowd who does work primarily with audio will VERY commonly run beyond 64 tracks. It's just not enough tracks for a $550 product(or whatever it was).

But this IS still a bit pricey for a stripped down version. I love Samplitude, at least the LE version. Isn't my favorite, but I have it and use it occasionally. But the full version and this download version are overpriced in MY opinion. It has a LOT of features, but not "more" than other similarly priced hosts. Maybe AS MANY, but it's comparable. Of course it will have it's benefits. All hosts have something that makes it better than others.

If they would have taken the full version and put it at this price, then it would be much better. And they would probably sell a lot more copies. Hopefully they will tweak their system and come up with something that can compete. But as it stands, the limitations will kill some people. Stripped down hosts just don't cost that much(unless you maybe use SAM). And that is unfortunate for Magix as I think they slightly messed this up. Maybe it will change.

I do wish them luck though. I would like to see them succeed and get more recognition. Maybe the price can drop for the FULL version then as well as the stripped down version.

Brent

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engine - Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:49 am

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Thanks for that hint.
i tried every number from 1 - 10 and ive came to the conclusion that these numbers telling samplitude how many sub- dirs it has to scan. right?!
But its showing me now 2 folders (GEN and FX) and everything in it without sub- dirs.

i guess its intended to be for vst-users with just a few vsts.

btw: much respect for your tutorial vids. very relaxing voice. bob ross style.

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Bob Nova - Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:02 pm

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That data is 2 years old now.From their own website:
http://www.magix.com/us/magix-ag/investor-relations/overview/

October 1 to September 30 2003/2004 2004/2005 2005/2006
Revenue (in € million) 21.8 27.5 35.8
EBITDA (in € million) 6.9 6.4 10.5
EBIT (in € million) 5.3 4.9 8.2
Employees (as of Sep 30) 178 220 303


They seemed to be doing OK in 05/06, but there are no more recent figures on thier website.

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Bob Nova - Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:06 pm

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And, as this thread clearly shows, Magix have too many versions of software out there which is confusing consumers.The names are too similar, too easy to get them mixed up.

Simplify and explain. The company's marketing dept. needs a bit of a shake-up.

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aMUSEd - Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:09 pm

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Yep they should simplify it to maybe just two:

Samplitude Elite (for millionaires and rich producers)

Samplitude standard (loser edition)

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hibidy - Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:05 pm

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Not sure, but doesn't magix make a bunch of "consumer" grade stuff? I'm thinking the samplitube (and sequoia for sure) are more niche...with the point being that that consumer stuff is probably bread and butter.

The only thing I own is the am suite, brilliant set of vst's imo.

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HobbyCore - Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:07 pm

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Sascha Franck - Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:08 pm

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The limitation to 8 VSTis is a clear dealbreaker for me (and I guess for a lot of other folks, too).
These days computers easily allow you to have, say, 4-5 alternative tracks of VSTis just "idling" should you ever want to compare takes, check for sound alternatives, etc. And well, those alternative tracks won't even consume any CPU power once you mute them, so it's not even much about powerful computers.

Heck, I'm a guitar player mainly, I'm pretty much conservative in my useage of whatever synths, too - yet, I have countless projects with a LOT more than just 8 VSTis running. Something like having around 10 instances of Zebra 2 really isn't too much uncommon (sure, most of those instances are muted, but they're there when I need them, without causing any additional hassles). The idea of using multitimbral synths doesn't change things in the slightest either - most synths simply are monotimbral (usually it's only samplers that aren't). And why not? Almost any host allows for running as much instances as you like.

Working around whatever plugin-per-track limits, bus amounts or max. audio track counts is sort of easy. Working around an 8 VSTi per song limitation defenitely isn't. And there's very few other hosts coming with such rigid limitations (at least those in the same price league).

Really, that's a serious showstopper. For a Magix product (I defenitely believe they are delivering quality) the price seems to be quite ok, but this limitation should be abandoned. It'll defenitely keep anybody mainly working with virtual instruments away. It'd even keep me away - and while I may only be using, say, around 4-5 virtual instruments in whatever more or less "complete" project, I will certainly have several alternatives running throughout the creative process.

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siriusbliss - Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:24 pm

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geez, if it's not the price, it's the 8 VST 'limit'.
Magix just can't win with you guys

It's Samplitude without the dongle (that people also like to complain about) for crissakes!

Greg

p.s. and yes, the included plugins are pretty amazing for the price.

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siriusbliss - Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:30 pm

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Magix does do well with their consumer products.

Greg

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koolkeys - Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:59 pm

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But it's still VERY expensive for a cut down version. It's NOT "Samplitude without the dongle". It's a cut down version that is in the same price range as other full versions of pretty much every competitor. THAT is the problem, not just the VSTi limit and other limitations.

I like Samplitude, but if I had the choice of this cut down version or, say, Sonar at the price, I'd go with Sonar(or whatever other full version you want to insert in the statement).

Brent

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Oxytoxine - Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:08 am

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there have been a lot of discussions about this topics (pricing policy / product line setup and the associated confusing labelling of the different versions etc) over at the samplitude forums. even many otherwise totally satisfied samp users are complaining, and also some devs seem to appreciate some problems, but the sales/marketing dept does not seem to be aware that they really have a problem.

i may be wrong, but besides being extremely hard competed by reaper, i also think that magix made an own goal with making the music studio(ms)so good recently, now they try to react.

when i started a few years ago people laughed at me when i told them about the ms, it was kind of "insider tip" for "poor people"/starters. nowadays one could really use the ms for serious productions, and this is also known and made public (eg. by discussions here on kvr), so the price difference to sam and especially sam pro gets more and more unjustified for a lot of people (that are not really professionals). therefore they have to add stupid small limitations to each of their versions or to drop some features that should keep users upgrading to the full versions. each version is in a way a bargain, but the missing features complement each other perfectly between the different versions.

in my opinion, the cheaper download edition of samp is a step in the right direction, but unfortunately the overall price level still is much too high for what one gets. a few years ago people said that the effects bundled in sam are worth the price alone (and that was part of the explanation of the price difference of the smaller to the pro version), but nowadays with so many free or cheap good vst alternatives and reaper, this is not true anymore.

i think both the extremes - ms and sam pro - are unconcurrenced beautifully products, but in between there is really a mess. i really hope they take the plunge and modernize themselves and especially their pricing policy; as nice as samp is there are really not many arguments to choose a stripped version of samp over reaper.

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Sascha Franck - Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:27 am

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No, it's not the price for me at all (heck, I bought a Mac to continue using Logic...). It's that stupid limitation. And for such a limitation, it's WAY too expensive for anybody working with VSTis.



It's not. It's Samplitude with some (at least one) severe limitations.
What's their tactics behind this? I really don't get it.
I have always thought really positive about Sampitude and the folks behind it, but this version seems to serve close to no purpose others than fixing folks on, so they would get the dongled version in the end. Which renders the "donglefree" point worthless.

Btw, do you need an internet connection for the machine it's installed on to authorize it? The mag-version of SE I have didn't offer any offline registration process, which is a no-go for me (simply out of principles).

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defjamm - Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:57 am

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imo it's a great deal for people who always wanted the classic version of samplitude because it's priced at 450-500 euro. now they can get it for 350 euro.

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siriusbliss - Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:37 am

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I don't think you need internet connection. You can send a file from another location.
Or simply turn off internet on your DAW.

Greg

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Muzik 4 Machines - Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:50 am

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its a combination of the 2 actually, make it 150 or less and i'll accept those limitations, but logic studio costs less and is not limited, cubase costs about the same for the full version, idem for sonar

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