KVR :: Sonic Reality / eSoundz.com » If you could have any Genesis sound... [View Original Topic]
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Squids - Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:25 am

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So, now is a chance for you to be heard and affect something. I can't tell you what exactly but if you know me you can imagine.

If you could have any sound(s) from Genesis history, what would it be? You can name a particular instrument if you know those things or you can name a sound from a particular song. This is your chance to request it and you never know what may happen. I CAN tell you that at least someone's wish will come true. That means I am making a little secret contest out of it with a prize that is unknown at the moment but when revealed will be quite enjoyable so... good luck!

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aMUSEd - Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:27 am

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Guitar from Firth of Fifth

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dkristian - Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:36 am

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Ditto.

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Dimus - Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:37 am

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The sound of Phil Collins' forehead being whacked with a sliver plated dessert spoon. Preferably from around 1976.

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ians - Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:50 am

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The synth sound in the solo at the end of Entangled for starters.

If you are thinking of something along the lines of Amplitube Steve Hackett then count me in.

Ian

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Acid Mitch - Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:56 am

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I was going to suggest the sound of Phil falling off his drum stool, but I suppose I'd settle for the dessert spoon thing.

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Reverend Rhythm - Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:59 am

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How about the drums from Mama (album - Genesis)? I especially like the snare.

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Squids - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:04 am

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A soup spoon or table spoon?

Guys, PLEASE be more specific. Haha.

I'm kidding btw. Read my next post. Thanks.

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Reverend Rhythm - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:04 am

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I know it's clichéd but I like the pad on No Son of Mine. I know it's easy and simple, but I like it.

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Squids - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:05 am

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Actually, if you guys don't mind being a little more serious only because this is somewhat time sensitive and a real legit request in our Sonic Reality company forum. Thanks.

Also, word of warning, if people don't happen to read this first page and start posting about wanting to hear a the sound of Peter Gabriel shaving his head in 1974 then don't be surprised if posts are just deleted for the sake of keeping this useful and focused.

Thread is for Genesis fans only. So, mods feel free to be chop away on this one if you want. Discuss only Genesis-related sounds that you really would actually love to have. This is an extremely rare opportunity I am talking about and I think some of you even know (but don't say please) so... go for it! But, the more you can name specific instruments if you know the better.

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Squids - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:09 am

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I like that one too. One of my favorite pads is the one that comes in halfway through Mama.

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Bubbamusic - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:22 am

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Obvious: The synth in Abacab

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hifiboom - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:30 am

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I always wondered whats the synthetic fat bass sound in "Land of Confusion", one of my favorite Genesis songs.

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Meffy - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:37 am

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I feel so stupid -- all those sonic textures and I can't think of specific ones I'd like to be able to use. This is off the wall, and probably easy enough to reproduce using stuff I have but I'd never get around to trying: the muffled, swelling intro pad and the bright brass/string(?) chord sounds from "Ballad of Big." I know, lame; sorry... like Big Jim Cooley, I deserve to be jumped by an all-star Indian tribe.

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aMUSEd - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:37 am

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There are some fantastic glitchy and blippy electronica sounds in Colony of SlipperMen and Doktor Dyper (from Lamb lies down) - tried replicating them myself before

Oh and the beautiful haunting synth sounds in Hairless heart

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duncanparsons - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:39 am

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...All of the sounds in the original studio take of Cinema Show. I realise that most of them can be created with more or less thought, depending on the patch.

Synth sounds on:
>Colony of Slippermen.
>Riding the scree.
>In that Quiet Earth/ Unquiet Slumber for the sleepers (esp the swung part).
>Solo in Musical Box

Guitar sounds on:
>Solo in Musical Box
>In the Cage (that kind of overchorused/ ultra tremolo)
>Apocalypse in 9/8 (I realise that part of that is the choice of voicing, but it's a great sound)

>The combined synth and guitar sounds used in that break in 'Ikhnaton And Itsacon And Their Band Of Merry Men' on Supper's Ready.

..I guess that should be enuff for now!

DSP

oh, and:
>Phil Collins Tambourine from the 'I know what I like' solo;
>and the bit where he forgot to come in during the intro of Supper's ready at the Rainbow in 1973 (the Jerusalem Boogie bit )

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mellotronaut - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:43 am

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Eno was involved in 'Colony of Slippermen'.

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Sleep Distance - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:44 am

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I've always loved a lot of the sounds Genesis used. Some favorites:

1.) The swelling strings during the solo in Firth of Fifth. I think that's a readily available Mellotron sound though.
2.) The choir in the middle and end of Los Endos. But this is also a readily available Mellotron sound.
3.) The Moog Taurus bass in Afterglow. Readily available these days.

A few that I don't know are already available:

4.) The choir pad at the end of Afterglow. It doesn't quite sound like a Mellotron. I'm not sure what instrument that is. It's very pretty though. I'd like to have a sound like that available in my studio. I have Eleventh Earl of Mar playing now. It sounds like they use that sound in the dreamy part in the middle of that song too. I'm listening to Down and Out now. They have the same sound swelling in during the choruses.
5.) The lush string pad in the intro and outro of All in a Mouse's Night.
6.) The chimey sound that doubles the nylon string guitar in Blood on the Rooftops.
7.) The little whistley sounding synth that comes in and out on Snowbound.
8.) The shimmery, arpeggiated sounding pad in the choruses in Snowbound.

Any of those keyboard sounds would be cool, though I think #4 might be my favorite.

Other than keyboard sounds, and Amplitube 2 patch replicating the wierd guitar sounds that Hackett got in the live version of Los Endos from Seconds Out album would be cool.

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Reverend Rhythm - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:49 am

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I agree. But I also like the 90s (commercial) Genesis, so I like the pads on the Invisible Touch and We can't Dance CDs. For all I know they are stock sounds from a Korg or Roland keyboards, but in the hands of Tony Banks.... e He can make a simple synth string pad into a thing of beauty.

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aMUSEd - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:51 am

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I know (also in Back in NYC)

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jsp1979 - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:51 am

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I like the "swirly sounds" in two mid-era songs:

1) "Me and Sarah Jane"--The keyboard during the part with "First I'm flying going round and round..."
2) The part of Duke's Travels right before the reprise of Guide Vocal ("I am the one..")

How about the weird keyboards in "Whodunnit?" (I'm serious!)

I'd also really like to see how to program some of the cool drum machine beats they've used through the years (e.g. "Mama", Intro to "Me and Sarah Jane", "Duchess"). I've got samples from most of the machines they used, but often I can't quite figure out how to make the beat just right.

--JSP

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mellotronaut - Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:53 am

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well, i have some 'Watcher ... ' sounds already . So, i'd like to have the electric guitar sound (Hackett) from the second part of 'After the Ordeal' (Selling England ... ) and the jazzy guitar (which almost sounds like a keyboard; not the fingered one, the picked one) in 'Aisle of Plenty'.
Lots of others ... .

m

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Paul Vicory - Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:33 am

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Hmm.

Tony Banks -

Various organ sounds of interest:

"The Knife"
from the end of "The Musical Box"
solo from "Supper's Ready"
"In the Cage"
All of the organ sounds on "A Trick of the Tail"
"The 11th Earl of Mar"
"Afterglow"

Various Piano/Electric Piano:

"Return of the Giant Hogweed"
"Supper's Ready"
"Undertow"
"Duchess"

Various Mellotron sounds:

"The Fountain of Salmacis"
"Watcher of the Skies"
"Entangled"
"Blood on the Rooftops"

Various Synth tones:

"The Cinema Show"
solo(s) on "In the Cage, The Colony of Slipperman, Riding the Scree, it"
solo on "Robbery, Assault and Battery"
"Wot Gorilla?"
... In That Quiet Earth
"Down and Out"
"Duke's Travels"

Mike Rutherford

Bass Pedals on:

"Back in NYC", "Dance on a Volcano", "Squonk", "Los Endos", "Down in the Motherlode", "Man of our Times"

Bass Guitar:
"The Knife"
"The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway"
"Robbery Assault and Battery"
"The Lady Lies"

12 String:
all of them

non-12 String:
solo on "Burning Rope", "Cul de Sac", "Abacab", "Calling All Stations"

Steve Hackett:

pretty much every single tone, especially the solos on "The Musical Box, Return of the Giant Hogweed, The Fountain of Salmacis, Can-Utility and the Coastliners, Supper's Ready, Dancing with the Moonlit Knight, Firth of Fifth, Los Endos, The 11th Earl of Mar, One for the Vine, All in a Mouse's Night".

Phil Collins:

"The Lamb" era kit and "Duke", of course.

Peter Gabriel:

Flute from "Firth of Fifth", bass drum from "The Musical Box"

Anthony Phillips:

12 String on "Stagnation"
Lead on "The Knife"

Edit: forgot the Synthi sound from Steve on "Counting out Time", and the solo at the end of "Dance on a Volcano"

Another Edit:
Also every instrument on "Seven Stones" - just love that track.

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Diek - Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:07 am

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There are a lot of good sounds that come to my mind when thinking on Genesis, but for me the Trade Marks are the Hammond and Mellotron pads (like in "Seven Stones"), the Rickenbaker bass, all the string thinguies and the guitar sound (like the solo at the end of "The Lamia")
All too general, but it's hard to choose

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cgnat - Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:10 am

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+1

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mellotronaut - Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:12 am

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Mikem - Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:31 am

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I was going to say that, dangit!!

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scuzzphut - Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:42 am

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the solo from Dodo off Abacab

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Meffy - Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:45 am

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This isn't Genesis per se*, but that sharp, clear, crystalline guitar (12-string?) in Anthony Philips' "The Geese and the Ghost." Right at 8:07 it's at its most fur-raisingly glittery. Less than three. Also right at 10:51 when everything kicks in. Glorious stuff that.

[edit: I'd also like a photo of the "Send Barns Orchestra and Barge Rabble conducted by Jeremy Gilbert" but that's another matter for another discussion. Also, I think maybe I'm hearing TWO twelve-string guitars, one played by Philips and one by Mike Rutherford. Whatever it is, I love it.]
_______________________________
* Closely connected with Genesis, at least one or two other Genesis members performed on that "solo" album IIRC.

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blatanville - Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:53 am

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<flips over to Genesis playlist in iTunes for a quick audition...>

forgive me if these have been mentioned up-thread:

The Knife:
The distorted square-wavey bass sound

Land of Confusion:
Squelchy synth bass

The Domino:
Squelchy synth bass

there're many other synth sounds listed up-thread that I would echo, too.
mostly, I think they're clever layering and production, but analyzing them is beyond me I fear.

What I'd love to have bottled: the magic in Tony Banks's hands.

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Meffy - Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:55 am

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Yeah. Hence my feeling of stupidity: many of those sounds I just can't have without a lot added after the fact. Fortunately for me Squids knows about these things and can filter out my unrealistic randomness.

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ionized - Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:17 am

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The incredibly emotive piano on The Lamia.

The heavy 12 string/keyboard main motif in Squonk & Los Endos.

Just about any of the keyboards from Riding The Scree.

More patches (or an emulation) of the Arp Pro-Soloist that Tony used.

(I realize that these can probably be made using existing stuff, but it would be nice to have them easily at hand.)

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buscemi - Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:24 am

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Every sound from Firth of Fifth. Being serious here. Flute, guitars, and others mentioned already, maybe a "song pack" of sounds would be in order?

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Murky - Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:32 am

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I would have to agree with the Paul Vicory list and the everyones comments on "Firth of Fifth".

I really do keep going back to the early 70's Genesis sounds. Here are some random thoughts:


There are the multiple 12 String guitars on "The Musical Box" and "The Cinema Show".

The various volume pedal guitar sounds.

Of course there is the "Watcher of the Skies" mellotron.

I like the Wikipedia entry on Tony Banks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Banks_(musician) The Instrument list at the bottom is kind of like a shopping list for recreating Bank's "bank" of sounds from a given period.

But it isn't just the instrument, it is the final sound. So it is the proper patch on the Hammond T-102 going through an MXR Phase 100 and Boss CE-1 with the proper settings.

So we are talking about a "tank" full of guitar and vintage synth sounds routed through a "multitude" of Amplifier and Effects boxes. Gee Squids, how could that ever be done?

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duncanparsons - Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:23 am

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I used to have a dodgy bootleg of that concert, with a bit of 'The lamb' live on it. It was a precious commodity back in the day. But now with the Archive box sets, and wider access to rare items, I don't have nearly so much kudos!



I love 'Chinese Mushroom Cloud' on that! It has the succinctness of 'The Entrance of the Capulets'...

I used to be in regular written contact with Ant. very nice chap. I kept trying to persuade him that he needed a drummer & I was that man; he was always very pleasant about it, and always said no!

I went to his front door (in a row of terraced houses in Clapham, London), but didn't have the nerve to knock... I posted a note through the door. He wrote and thanked me for not disturbing him 'unheralded'.

My favourites of his would be 'Wise after the Event' (or 'Sapiens post Eventum') and PPs 1,2 and 8. I used to have all but PP6 and PP7 on LP. I now have pretty much the lot on CD or mp3. Love it, totally love it. [In the 'Masquerade' monthly comp in early 2006, I pretended to be him, submitting 'Antasia' by 'Private Parts'. No one guessed it was supposed to be Ant, and no one guessed it was me.. ]

Paul Victory mentioned the guitar solo on 'Moonlit Knight' - how could I have missed that one!

DSP


[Edit]
Actually, Antasia can be found in Markleford's listings here
Private Parts: Antasia

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Meffy - Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:39 am

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Cool beans.

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soma - Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:48 am

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I can't beileve no one has said this so far...

For me, not a big Genesis fan really, but I always was amazed by the production on Phill's VOICE, specifically the chorus. I don't hear chorus like that on on anyone except maybe Janes Adiction. I really have been dieing to get that effect!!!

(ps first post to sonic reality)

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buscemi - Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:57 am

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I'd rather have Peter Gabriel's actual voice But I like the thinking outside the box with the vocal processing - maybe Squids could throw a bone with a couple of presets across a few products like T-Racks, CSR, and whatever for the chorus (I believe the only IK/SR product that would offer chorus would be AT2 and that would be overkill to load up for vox IMO).

Oh and an X-Gear bundle of patches would be nifty - I like the guitar sound from Calling All Stations, kind of makes me wonder if Rutherford had listened to "Achtung Baby" (edit: realized I got the timeline backwards)

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Squids - Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:40 am

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I think Rutherford was listening to New Years Day when he came up with some of the hooks in Home By The Sea.


Good stuff guys. Keep it coming. You're gonna like the surprise which I will reveal toward the end of the next month. Or I might even do a live blog in the middle of the month or something special. Yeah. This is going to be fun. You'll see what I am up to. This and some Floyd related things that are equally as fun and interesting.

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buscemi - Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:42 am

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StudioPhonik Prelude Part II: Genesis Edition?

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hydemusic - Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:40 pm

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All the keyboard synth sounds on "Selling England by the Pound" and "Lamb Lies down Down on Broadway". The guitar sounds I can do myself

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hydemusic - Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:45 pm

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Gilmore's guitar on Amplitude would definitely rule

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Treeper - Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:06 pm

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Well, there you have it Squids....
...all of the above please

- and make it snappy

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Paul Vicory - Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:31 pm

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I love all of those sounds and the whimsical, adventurous, dramatic, powerful and yet delicately beautiful music of Genesis from the "Trespass" to "Duke".

The only problem in recreating those tones are people like me. For instance, with the recent remixes of the Genesis catalog, some of the tones got changed - I'm sure because some of the original equipment/mixing technique got lost in the sands of time(!).

Some of the tones on "A Trick of the Tail", for example, sound quite different on the remixes. Different, but not necessarily in a good way to my ears, because I'm so locked in to the original sound, having listened to Genesis from that period for so many years.

I think we would be a tough musical demographic to satisfy.

I'm not in a Genesis-cover band nor do I have any inclination to recreate the sound of Genesis of any era in my own music, but I do like the idea of drawing on certain "pet sounds" to the purpose of creating something new and musically valid, music that might conjure up some of that 70's Genesis magic.

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Squids - Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:04 pm

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The more specific the sounds the better if you know. Saying "all of the sounds on the Lamb"... yeah I know. That would be nice. And Peter's voice and the sound of this and that mix... I am obviously not talking about remixing Genesis for you guys. I'm talking about SOUNDS! Maybe it's programming patches or maybe I am sampling drums and other instruments in the style of Genesis. When I say "You can imagine" it shouldn't be that hard. Plus, I think I had said before one of the things I was up to. Well, it's gotten even cooler and soon enough you guys will know a few things we're doing lately. Fun stuff!

So, any particular INSTRUMENTS that the band used that you'd like to have samples of for example? Arp ProSoloist? Mike's Double Neck Ricky? The sound effects in Waiting Room? Specifics if you can. This is your chance.

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tronholic - Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:57 am

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Hi,

Mellotron solo sound from the latter part of 'Seven Stones'.
(Mic'ed up Mellotron MkII on 3Violins setting and you can hear key click as well.)
I had to.

This would be great:

Delicate RMI Electra Piano from 'Carpet Crawlers'(chromatic samples).

Thank you and good luck to the project!

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hydemusic - Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:16 am

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Yes you're right ..that sound is so spell binding plus it just fits so well with the whole aura of the song. I used it for a soundtrack on a video my wife and I did in the 80's. "Carpet Crawlers" and " The Cinema Show" are 2 of my favorite Genesis songs.. And while we're on the topic of sounds from then, the band Nektar, not quite as famous as Genesis but still valid. I remember they moved by me (New Jersey) near the studio I worked.

Of course we all know it's the song not the sound, but never the less. there's something about these classic sounds I love that just reach out and grab you and thankfully Squids does as well! I'm not anti-tech by any means but the richness and warmth of an antiquated technology IMHO is ions ahead of the new technology od sounds in terms of passion and feeling...it's just a vibe that 1's and 0's can't sample or catch but we're getting close to and since I can't have all those keyboards like I can't have my 20 Les Pauls and 30 Strats and 15 Teles (I'm only allowed to have 3 of each)it's the next best thing.... Haven't even got on the subject of amplification which many of these sounds totally sound like the real McCoy if put them through either a real amp or Amplitide....ooh la la la

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magog - Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:54 am

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I find it hard to analyze the sounds in Genesis music. The music is so emotional for me, for one. And so much of the sound is in the songwriting and arrangement, and also in how the instrument is played (voicing, etc. as duncanparsons wrote above).

If there was one Genesis sound, it would have to be a complete emulation of the ARP ProSoloist. The samples I have are nice, but in Tony's hands it sounds like such an expressive instrument with that aftertouch feature and all.

Beyond that, I can get by with what I already have: sampletank mellotron, a twelve-string, an organ and a taurus pedal simulation. What would be great would be knowing how to treat these better. Genesis did a lot with their effects, and I don't think I really know how to use effects...um...effectively.

For instance, that choir at the end of Silent Sorrow is just a mellotron choir, but how do they make it sound so good?

I'd be great for someone to pick apart a Genesis album and write up an analysis of the sounds and how they were created. I'd buy that.

Anyway, here's a list of sounds that I don't think I could recreate on my own:

• Lamb lies down on broadway: Ampeg/Amplitube bass patch for bass
  
• Battle of Epping forest: Ampeg/Amplitube bass patch for bass
  
• return of the giant hogweed: ampltube guitar patch for Steve's guitar at the
  beginning and the violin-like guitar at 5:36
  
• firth of fifth: guitar solo patch (natch).
  
• suppers ready: keyboard sound at 13:45 after willow farm - treated mellotron?
  
• dancing with the moonlit knight - the guitar or bass riff at: 2:25
  
• dancing with the moonlit knight - guitar patch for the lawnmower sound at: 2:54
  
• dancing with the moonlit knight - arpeggios in coda: dulcimer? guitar?
  
• I know what I like: organ sound in chorus
  
• Fly on a windshield: swirly mellotron at beginning
  
• Grand Parade: organ
  
• Abacab: pad
  
• Mama: pad in second half
  

Michael

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Blank_Frank - Sat Oct 18, 2008 11:34 am

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What he said. I'm easily pleased.

Although if I was pushed...some of the synth sounds on Mr. Banks' "A Curious Feeling", particularly the solos at the end of "You", would be splendid. But that's just being picky.

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Highvoltage - Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:24 pm

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Drum sounds from "Harold the barrel"

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duncanparsons - Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:29 pm

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Oh, tell me about it... First time I heard the 'definitive edition remaster' of Selling England, I couldn't believe it! Suddenly there was all this reverb! (most noticeable with the opening vocal section of the album). Granted, it could be seen as tasteful and up to date - no! no! no! no! no!

Part of the reason many prog albums from that period 'work' is that they understood effects, and reverb was an effect to be added or declined based on what was appropriate for a passage or instrument. Since about 1976 or so, when mixing first thing that's done is set up a bus with a reverb, so now everything has that sitting behind it... aaargh! It's not big and it's not clever. Eddy Offord had asked Chris Squire a number of times if he could do 'remasters' of CTTE and Fragile, but Chris politely declined, since he knew what would be done. If you listen to the Yes remasters, they are great, and have been sympathetic to the original masters, a proper mastering job where attention is paid to what is actually there, rather than adding stuff that just shouldn't be.

Another good remastering job, arguably, is some work that Alan Parsons did on some of the 'Project' albums a while back. I listened to the newer editions, and to me they sounded just as good as I remembered them; but then on returning to the originals found the sound somewhat more dull [no digs about APP here!!!]. Albums like EVE, Turn of a Friendly Card, Pyramid, etc, came out at a time when LPs in the UK didn't always have much presence, and the bass was favoured somewhat. I realise that this is something of a generalisation, since I'm sure we could all point to albums that defy that trend, but if we're honest with ourselves could easily find many that confirm it. Anyway, listen to the originals (either on LP or first edition releases on CD) and compare them to recent CD outings, and Alan has been sympathetic to the source material, but also done much to bring out qualities that you remember. My father always said that for a band to make a comeback, they have to be twice as good as how they were in the first place, because your emotions always distort and 'improve' the memories. This is what I experienced with APP, that the recent remasters sound how I remembered them to be, until I listened to what they actually were!

I realise this is a bit of a digression, Dave and all, but it is Genesis related, in as much as whoever did the Definitive Edition Remasters should never be allowed in a studio again!! I haven't heard recent the 5.1 versions, and I'm slightly worried, but I'm sure I'll get to hear them in good time...

DSP

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EuropeanOnUranus - Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:00 pm

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What can I use to match that prominent 60 cycle hum that's all over my pressing of The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway?

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EuropeanOnUranus - Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:03 pm

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Oh and more seriously, the heavily distorted clav in The Musical Box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W35wtfcByIY

For the longest time I always assumed that was a guitar.

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Squids - Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:25 am

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That's a distorted Pianet he used on Musical Box. I don't think Tony ever used a clav. But those Pianet sounds from Nursery are good.


By the way, on the subject of Genesis, if you didn't know your friendly neighborhood Squid on keys and some production/composition elements with Simon and Phil Collins dueling drums. Check it out: www.sonicreality.com/squidscorner/BigBangTeaser.mp3

That's a quickly edited together taste of the song The Big Bang from Simon's album "U-Catastrophe" which also features Steve Hackett. However, the rest of the album is only Genesisy or PC-like in certain areas... it's more modern rock and electronica than PC/Genesis would do. But, a few hints here and there with the odd Mellotron making an appearance (actually I used SampleTron).

Anyway, out of interested I thought I'd post it in here. This, however, has nothing to do with why I asked the question of the thread in the first place.

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BroderYon - Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:20 am

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Hi, jsp1979. The weird sounds in this song were made with a Prophet V

Greetings from Tenerife

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eDrummist - Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:56 am

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Lots of people already mentioned Tony Bank's keyboard sounds that I like, so I'll suggest some drum sounds. Now, my hard drive with my mp3s just died and all my CDs are packed in boxes, so I'm doing this from memory. I'd pick Phil's drums on:

- Trick of the Tale
- Abacab
- No Son of Mine
- Put Another Record On
- You Might Recall (yes, many folks might not be impressed, but it sits nicely in a mix where you don't want drums to be too aggressive)

I'm sure there are tons of songs I am missing, but those are some of my favorite Phil Collins drum mixes. They're not even necessarily my favorite songs, just songs with drum sounds/mixes I like. Actually, I can't remember too many of the songs, but there were some good drum sounds on "Calling All Stations" (yes, even though my favorite albums were Abacab and before, I still kept buying; I think Nick D'Virgilio and Chester Thompson played on CAS). Being a drummer, the dilemna of using similar sounds/mixes to Phil is that his drum sounds are so identfiable, many people who would hear the sounds, regardless how original drumming was, and say something like, "That sounds like Phil Collins." So if I were to use a kit that sounded too much like Phils, I might avoid hitting the toms!

- eDrummist

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jkleban - Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:28 am

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Squids,

Even though I purchased OWD (and I love them) I still am in search of PCs drum sound from The Lamb... not necessarily the drumset but the kit and the "ROOM" sounds used on the Lamb (in OWD format of course, with all the control one could ever need).

IMHO, as far as drumming goes, The Lamb was Phil's swan song and was mixed as such on this album which I totally admire after all these years.

So, I hope you are on the other side of the POND and can sample this drum kit (along with all the percussion used) that PC used (and hopefully you can get him to tune them and perform for the samples).

This shouldn't be too hard since PC has been playing with toy trains in the basement for the last 6 months... shouldn't take too much convincing to take a short break from his train set.

Thanks,
Jim

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KindredSpirit - Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:29 pm

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Falling notes of organ? on Stagnation 1.40, Twangy sound behind voices on The Knife 4.58 and on Unquiet slumbers for the sleepers 1.28. Oboe and that lovely string sound on Blood on the rooftops 1.24. All the 6 and 12 string guitars on these albums!!

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Squids - Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:53 pm

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Oh yeah, that's the old L102 when you turn it off for a sec the notes die out. Fun effect. You can sort of simulate it though but there's a certain sound to it winding down. It's possible.

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EuropeanOnUranus - Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:25 pm

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Ah thanks! (Similar profiles, and with all that overdrive was hard to tell.)

What's the opening of Carpet Crawlers played on? Is there any effect or doubletracking or does TB have like 5 hands?

By the way, Korg CX-3 organs can do the tone wheel slowing mentioned above. ("WheelBrk" parameter lets you assign a pedal to it.)

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buscemi - Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:35 pm

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Are we going to have a moment of "and now for something completely different" and you're working on a book deal "The Secret Banks of Banks" where you'll get him to go through how many sounds were made (with DVD too, of course)?

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Squids - Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:05 pm

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A pitch envelope can simulate it pretty well potentially. But, there may be something to the real tone wheel winding down.

Carpet Crawlers was played on an RMI Electra Piano. He does a cross-hand technique for the arpeggios and I don't think there's double tracking. There may be delay helping it though and that would sound like double tracking. However, I am not sure if there is. I'd have to listen carefully and think about it. There's obviously reverb though.

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Squids - Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:06 pm

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No, but that would be fun. However, I am working on something that Genesis fans should like. I can't say exactly what just yet. But I should be able to discuss it more toward the end of next month.

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taijiguy - Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:14 am

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Hackett's Ebow from any song. Problem with the Ebow is you can only play one note at a time. As a sampled sound, it would be great for chords.

http://www.mikedickson.org.uk/tron/ebow.mp3

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Waker - Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:26 am

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Peter Gabriels voice from "Selling England" With a wordbuilder option, which doesn't sound fake

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Squids - Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:10 pm

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That will be ready in 2092.

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Reverend Rhythm - Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:16 pm

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And pre-orders on esoundz will begin... when?

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Squids - Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:20 pm

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2092.

You can email my great great grand Squids.

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BroderYon - Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:20 am

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Look at this web

http://tonybanks.lakeofsilence.de/tbkeyb.htm

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KindredSpirit - Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:56 am

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I can't believe he only used a Pro Soloist on Lamb Lies Down, superb!

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Squids - Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:30 pm

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There are other synths on The Lamb. But mostly for the effects (Arp 2600 for example, maybe even an EMS Synthi since Eno was involved). There's also the Moog Taurus of course. But the main one is that ProSoloist. Secret Tony Weapon.

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Gothboy - Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:46 pm

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Well it's just so vast...the Genesis catalogue is filled with amazing sounds and I was lucky enough to see them last year. I was blown away and quite pleased with the sounds Tony used. He had his trusty Korg Wavestation, a Roland A-90 controller and a Korg Oasys(which he hardly used...spent most of his soloing time on the Wavestation, which is actually a controller now triggering sounds from a Receptor). I think the sounds he used on "Home by the Sea" and "Second home by the Sea" were spellbinding.
I've always wanted an Arp Quadra or 2600!

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mikefkeys - Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:49 pm

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Thanks for the opportunity to provide input. I'm a late-era Genesis fan

Roland JD800/990 - Fading Lights - brass sound
Prophet - Dodo - intro chord sound
Sample - No Son of Mine - elephant guitar thing
Prophet - Man On the Corner - Layered sound in last half of intro
Synclavier - 2nd Home By the Sea - 'Falling pitch' ghost sound effect behind the guitar solo
Synclavier - Home By the Sea - Spooky pad sound in the section before 2nd Home drum pattern begin
Akai sample - Brazillian lead sound
Synclavier - In That Quiet Earth (Mama Tour) - both the verse and chorus lead sounds
Hammond - Follow You Follow Me - a definitive 'Tony chorused organ' sound
Yamaha CP-70 - How about a hi-def 1GB version of this instrument once and for all - 4+ velocity switched samples per key?

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zerocrossing - Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:18 pm

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Hm... I never really thought of Genesis as a "sounds" band. In fact I can't even really think of any standout sounds. Now Peter Gabriel's solo stuff... Many gems there.

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mikefkeys - Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:04 pm

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Oh, one other treasure would be a full 'Phil Collins' drum kit library. That concert tom sound is unique, not to mention plenty of china cymbal And of course, all of the old Roland and Emu SP drum machine sounds would round out that library nicely.

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Squids - Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:54 am

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Both are major sound bands in that they have character sounds that are very different than other bands.

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Squids - Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:03 pm

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I am going to be in England next week and will try to get on line while I am there to report a few things... that you might find interesting.

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luxth - Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:19 pm

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Backpads, fake oboe and drums from Blood On The Rooftops. My favourite Genesis song.

Luca

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Squids - Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:55 pm

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Backpads are a washy verby Mellotron violins and the fake oboe is an Arp ProSoloist.

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luxth - Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:29 am

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Hey Dave,

thanks. Yup i guessed the Mellos, but didnt think about the pro-soloist, thanks for pointing it out

Luca

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rockstar_not - Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:42 am

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+1 - not sure if it's the same patch or not, but the pulsing simple monotone bass line, turning it into a pedal point exercise.

-Scott

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Squids - Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:52 am

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On the 13th and/or 14th of this month there will be a special somewhat Genesis-related event that I will kind of "blog" in this forum so if you're into this conversation you may want to be around those two days... it may include some live video feeds of your friendly neighborhood Squid in action as well as some of the gear you all love. You'll see.

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Zombie Queen - Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:56 am

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Shining Force!

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moogprodigy - Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:33 pm

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Well, I just got an RMI so I can scratch that one off my list. Next, I am thinking it would be nice to get a Mellotron, or even an ARP soloist.

Here is a vid of my RMI.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwF4hrb4jXw&feature=related

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Squids - Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:18 pm

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We're working with two producers of Genesis' past this week. On Friday I will try to do some real time video of the session with Nick Davis who is one of the two. This should be one of the most fun sessions I can imagine next to the one next week which is also really cool and involves recording consoles that were used years ago at Abbey Road (EMI Redd console and then a TG12345 board). Gear galore and some engineering secrets revealed... well, it's exciting. This is as good as it gets for me... especially since there is not just sampling but music (an album) involved as well in the works. Fun stuff. I am also trying to reuinite some musicians. No it's not Gabriel with Genesis (that would be amazing) this is something different (another band) but it's just right up my alley of classic rock production. It will be well video documented as a lot of these sessions are... just only bits have been seen so far. You guys haven't even seen the Peart sessions. That was even done in a hybrid TV studio/music studio so these crazy booms and stuff.

If I have internet access I will post some pics perhaps tomorrow if I can for anyone interested in seeing some classic gear... some you may even recognize! Like a double neck Ricky.

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nl3 - Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:33 pm

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Post Squids, post 'em all!
PGi

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jkleban - Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:48 pm

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Yes DAVE....

Post them all and while you are with Nick (at the Farm) I assume, steal the vocal tracks for The Lamb for me... I am getting tired of trying to clip them from the originals (too much work). Tell Nick that what I have heard of BOX SET 3 is truly AMAZING. Can't wait to get the surround sound versions (should be here tomorrow).

Thanks,
Jim

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Squids - Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:00 pm

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I'm getting the box set this week hopefully. But, if you want the vocals solo then that's easy. They're in the center channel of the 5.1 mixes. I love that Nick mixes it that way. Really discrete sounding surround. Can't wait to hear the box set.

Oh and yeah you'll finally have the definitive Phil Collins drum sound Jimbo but not just that... gets better. We're on a mission.

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jkleban - Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:56 pm

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Well,

I will be HAPPY to BETA them for FREE for ya DAVE... and if it gets better, I can't wait.....

I already picked up Soundforge 9 just for the surround channel editing it provides.... are the backing vocals isolated too in the center track????? That would be too good to be true.

EMAIL the samples of Phils kit (I hope the one he used on TTDOB). And make sure you sample the kick with the LAMBSWOOL beater.

Dave, you really are getting me excited.... Phil's kit is the last sound I need.

Thanks,
Jim

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jkleban - Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:57 pm

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Whoa...

I just thought of something.... if you are with Nick at the farm on a MISSION... I can't help but think of the word RE-UNION.

Jim

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jens - Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:02 pm

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yes of course - and the huge Mellotron sound from it as well - first track that came to my mind

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Squids - Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:36 pm

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Again, just so imagination doesn't go TOO wild, we're not getting Gabriel back with Genesis or anything... I'd love to though and one could only hope that this happens. Although I have to say that their collaboration on the newer Carpet Crawlers is under-rated. I don't hear Genesis fans rave about it enough but I really LOVE that. I love hearing both Gabriel and Phil sing lead on the same track. That is awesome. That IS almost a reunion in a way...

But, anyway, I couldn't tell you if I WAS involved in something like that but I can tell you if I'm not and... I'm not. Not right now anyway. We're mostly doing sampling. But, the music project relates to two other bands that I like and what I am TRYING to do (that I don't know if it will happen or not because it is unlikely from the start) is something that I could get credit for fearless boldness at least. Either way at some point I will tell you all what I was up to whether we pull it off or not. You'll laugh at least.

Anyway, www.recordproduction.com will be video documenting a bunch of these cool sessions we're doing all over England this week... yes, in different studios but one of them WILL be The Farm. Of course! We've been planning this for a while now. It's finally happening and it is going to be a blast. That and also the other sessions though too. The lack of sleep though is incredible but we're pumped. There's always Red Bull.

We will report, show pics, videos at least as much as we can. It's meant to give you guys a rare inside look and not to brag or gloat. So if it is obnoxious let me know. Hopefully not. We're just sharing what we think is cool and this is what we do for a living... somehow we got this job! To "Sample Everything". Everything also means everything I think is cool basically.

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jkleban - Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:05 am

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Squids....

When you sample the doubleneck, please sample each note on the fretboard and make a sample program of each string.. so then a MULTI can be put together of all 6 strings (6 programs) for the 12 strings which can be triggered in real time by a MIDI guitar. That way, when chords are played on a MIDI guitar, all the notes will be played back using the correct note samples.

Example, playing an open E chord in the 7th position, would trigger two different (and correct) high E notes. The one on the open high E string and the E note on the 9th fret of the G string.

Midi guitars transmit on 6 different MIDI channels and then the MULTI could respond to each string by being set to different channels. Know what I mean?

So, send the videos, pictures, whatever and I for one do not think of your sharing of this stuff GLOATING or Showing Off or anything rather giving us a chance to at least experience a small part of your envious endeavor.

Jim

PS - I will BETA this for you too

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nl3 - Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:21 am

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...and grab everything you can by your ears and eyes too!
PGi

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Squids - Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:46 am

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Wow. Hugh Padgham is amazing. What a cool guy. I've never met him before. The drum sound we got today, which took us ALL day and I didn't have time to upload anything yet (but could perhaps now that things have settled a little) is absolutely mind bogglingly amazing! Jim you are going to freak when your midi files play this Premier single head kit. I can tell you guys a little more about this since everyone is pretty darn cool and lax about it. Basically we're doing a Studio ProFiles title for the "Infinite Player" plug-in that will be announced TODAY.

There is already Drum Masters Silver and Gold Edition released this week that's already been done (and took a while) but since that time working on the editing and programming we've recorded the Ken Scott Collection with Billy Cobham, Terry Bozzio, Woody Woodmansey, Bob Siebenberg and Rod Morgenstein all with the original gear Ken would have recorded them with Mahavishnu Orchestra, Missing Persons, David Bowie, Supertramp and the Dixie Dregs (plus a few extra surprises). We've also recorded Neil Peart for a Studio ProFile title with Nick Raskulinecz who produced the last Rush album (and Foo Fighters... lots of pics on our myspace page of that). Plus, we've done some other sessions as well... and we're continuing to do them because as you can see we're dedicated to the task and we don't even know if you all will be BUYING this plug-in and the Studio ProFiles series multi-track stuff (we only hope otherwise we can't continue forever... I just have a theory basically that other people are going to go as nuts over this stuff as me).

Anyway, THESE Studio ProFiles sessions we're doing now are focusing on Hugh Padgham and Nick Davis (separately but it just so happens we're working with them both a day apart). Two different producer/engineers who have both worked with Genesis and I think have two different styles of recording someone like Phil which is very interesting.

Oh woops, a little crisis in the studio... have to run but I'll be back with more if you're interested.

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man-T - Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:54 am

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I would like to have the sound of... (mod edit: Sorry, we really want to keep this thread somewhat productive and serious to the original question)

Edit ± no sense of humor allowed... ok i see, np. [mod edit: sense of humor allowed but in this case since we're trying to ask a question looking for legit answers in our company forum - not the general forum- we ask that it's not filled with joke answers just this time... but it isn't a big deal. Thanks]

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Parisongs - Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:44 am

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Drunken robot sounds from "The Waiting Room" 2:05-2:15. Tinkly synth sounds from "The Waiting Room" 0:52:00.

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Squids - Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:32 am

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I have in front of me Tony Banks' Arp 2600 serial# 0001.

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nl3 - Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:16 pm

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WWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!
PGi

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Squids - Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:36 pm

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A little Lambience.

Also, Hackett's infamous rare Shaftsbury Duo Fuzz finally... I can never find one of these! Supper's almost ready!

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