KVR :: View topic - Suzuki QChord - help filtering the midi output into my DAW

KVR :: Hardware (Instruments and Effects) » Suzuki QChord - help filtering the midi output into my DAW [View Original Topic]
There are 72 posts in this topic.

runagate - Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:39 pm

I've got a Suzuki QChord solely for the "midi strumplate" and chord buttons. Follow that link to see what I mean.

However, the midi data it sends is quite poorly implemented. I've edited the relevant information from an article by Jeff Obee in Electronic Musician magazine.

Jeff Obee in Electronic Musician Magazine wrote:

MIDI OVERBOARD The Q Chord receives and transmits MIDI in Omni mode only. It transmits its various parts on 12 separate channels. For instance, the Melody Keyboard is on channel 1, Chord Plus on channels 3 and 4, and the Strumplate on channels 14, 15, and 16.

As noted previously, most Q Chord sections can be turned off, but not drums-so MIDI data is constantly output on channel 10. Strangely, the Q Chord regularly sends MSB, LSB, and Pitch Bend value 64 (the middle, "neutral" position on a pitch wheel) messages on all accompaniment channels, even those that are supposed to be turned off. Presumably this data is intended to reset synth voices on all channels, but when a part is off, it ought to send no data.

To top that off, when you change chords with the buttons, the Q Chord sends unexpected Pitch Bend messages in order to shift sustaining Strumplate notes to the proper pitch. (Remember, the Strumplate triggers chord tones determined by the buttons.) These Pitch Bend messages can make a non-GM synth sound drastically out of tune. Add the three channels for Strumplate output, and you have enough extraneous data to annoy the average sequencer jockey.

With some effort, you can sequence Strumplate parts, even in odd meters. To sequence the Strumplate on its own, I had to turn down the drum part (turning down the Rhythm volume on the Q Chord sends CC 7 messages to the GM module) so I didn't have to listen to it. But I was still forced to remove the superfluous drum, Pitch Bend, and other data recorded to the sequencer.

Jeff Obee is a San Francisco Bay Area-based composer and producer who plays the synthesizer and fretless bass.

What can I use that'll most efficiently filter out all the useless midi data so that the chord buttons and strum plate can be used to play VSTi in my DAW? I use Usine so modularly routing midi data isn't a problem.

Thanks in advance for any help.

If I get it working the way I want I'll post files to help other QChord owners utilize them as a controller for VST instruments.

synthgeek - Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:54 pm

NicFit's midi munger plugin could probably do something for you: http://www.asseca.com/

Outside of vst-land, I know there's at least one midi utlity app that lets you filter and change midi input in a number of ways, it's been a long time since I used it, but it may have been part of Hubis MIDI Loopback.

runagate - Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:05 pm

I can think of lots of utility apps and midi VSTs that'd do what I need.

I'm just not sure what'd be easiest to set up, nor exactly what I should be filtering out.

The idea of the strumplate being sent on midi channel 14, 15 & 16 and somehow still triggering the chords - I don't get how they implemented that. I do know I should filter out channel 10 (drums) and the entirety of the pitchbend message as the article implies that switching chords does something funny with PB.

I've been fumbling around with zweeger VST to no avail as of yet.
I'll let you know if NicFit's works for me, synthgeek Wink

VariKusBrainZ - Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:12 pm

dont know what data you want filtering but MidiOx will do it

dougsyo - Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:59 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:

dont know what data you want filtering but MidiOx will do it

I was going to say MidiOX+MidiYoke. Feed your MIDI interface into MidiOX and the output of MidiOX into MidiYoke (or Hubi's Loopback or Maple Midi Cable or etc). and on to your sequencer.

To the OP: thanks for that info. I have a QChord, but I've never tried to do MIDI with it, partly because it's pretty-much undocumented.

Doug

runagate - Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:05 pm

MidOx and MidiYoke are needlessly fiddly.
I use Usine, it reports midi messages right on it's main panel.

Also, acousmodules has a great6 midi monitor. I just have bad eyes, and the data flies by too fast. I am great at some things, but this little practical problem eludes me. There's a much easier way, I just don't know it Wink

shamann - Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:53 pm

runagate wrote:

I'm just not sure what'd be easiest to set up, nor exactly what I should be filtering out

This is the MIDI channel implementation in the Qchord manual:

MIDI Channel 3 - CHORD PLUS
MIDI Channel 5 - AUTO CHORD 1
MIDI Channel 6- AUTO CHORD 2
MIDI Channel 7- AUTO CHORD 3
MIDI Channel 8- AUTO CHORD 4
MIDI Channel 9 - BASS
MIDI Channel 10- DRUMS
MIDI Channel 14,15,16 - STRUMPLATE

I'd filter out channels 9 and 10, since they're just auto-accompaniment crap. Does auto-chord mean accompaniment or just the output of the chord buttons? I'd filter the pitchbend messages on all channels by limiting their range to only output a value of 64 (unless you can just filter out all pitchbend messages, Bidule I think only lets you limit the range). It means that those reset messages will still get through, but that's it. I'd also drop all incoming CC messages. Best way to narrow it all down to just the good stuff would be to filter out everything and gradually turn stuff back on. Eventually you'll have the exact setup you want.

This is easy to do in Bidule, since it has modules for filtering channels, controllers and pitchbend, but I don't really know how best to do it elsewhere.

runagate - Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:26 pm

shamann... I infered that you must have found a manual and so I finally found it, too.

Wow... I was wondering how in f**k you get dim and aug chords... I'm in heaven!

This is easily the cheesiest manual ever. Very useful though. Thanks!

Lots of functions in there I couldn't figure out how to access...

Looks like if I filter PB on the correct channels I can still use it on the main channel for chords, which is good.

I'll make a Usine VST template that others can load as a preset if I figure it all out.

dougsyo - Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:29 am

runagate wrote:

shamann... I infered that you must have found a manual and so I finally found it, too.

Yup, http://www.qchord.net/docs/qchord-manual.pdf

In the early 80's a friend had an Omnichord, the predecessor to the Q-chord. I also have an used autoharp I picked up cheap at Sam Ash (I think I paid under $100 for it). I'd always wanted a Q-chord so I grabbed the manual and checked it out first.

For a few months one of the local Wal-Marts carried them (up in front by the registers, where they'd stick cheap guitars, telescopes, metal detectors etc), but I got mine at a music store that was going out of business - Q-chord, manual, hard case and AC adapter all for cheap.

I was just playing it the other day.

Doug

runagate - Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:20 pm

Hehehe it's incredibly funny to play w/o midi filtering.
It just drives the poor VSTi completely insane!
Weird, pitch bent random glitchery.
Such a ridiculous toy prior to VSTs, but very interesting way of playing now in the VST era. I've not monkeyed with it again yet but i should be able to filter all the crap out tonight and hopefully post a demo.

runagate - Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:56 am

Oddly, I couldn't figure out how to simply eliminate midi channels 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10 and keep 3, 14, 15 & 16 and I think I figured out how to filter out just the pitch bend from all channels, but I want to discover which channel the actual physical pitch bend wheel is being sent on, so I can keep that.

I didn't realize you could transpose it's octave up or down one. Or by semitones, too, though I can't understand under what circumstances that'd be helpful, since the buttons are all properly labeled and in alphabetical order...

Finding the extra 100 internal sounds by pressing the Melody Key then F#Maj then the Melody Key once again (and again to get rid of the bass accompaniment) then hitting the voice select up to 99 times and then repeating this each time you want to switch sounds isn't especially fun. Luckily I don't much care for the GM bank it's got, though the drums'n'scratching is hilariously kitschy and would work well in a vurt song.

I still love the strum plate and the ability to audition 7 chord types at the push of a button. 84 chords... makes life so much easier.

Every single other function of the damned thing can simply be eliminated.

I seriously cannot fathom who has bought the add-on "Sound Cards" except maybe on Moonie who plays Beatles songs for some sort of karoke sing-along.

shamann - Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:00 am

runagate wrote:

What are you using for filtering?

runagate - Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:02 pm

I was trying to use Usine's midi filter module.

Then I tried zweeger VST but realized that sans wifi I couldn't figure it out and needed the manual.

Then I got interested in configuring something else. Lot on my plate atm. Dunno what I'll try next. Certainly not anything but a VST.

shamann - Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:14 pm

runagate wrote:

Dunno what I'll try next. Certainly not anything but a VST.

Well, I may not be much help then. Bidule is the only thing I use for this kind of stuff, as it makes it all easy. Like so:

But that's an expensive solution for just midi channel filtering. I'd thought Mr. insertpiz might have something appropriate:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192282

But I'm not sure any of those could drop channels in bulk. I'm sure MIDIscripter would do it, that leaves just the simple matter of learning to script it:

http://azertopia.free.fr/Supermidiscripter.html[/img]

runagate - Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:52 am

I certainly know about Mulch and wish I had it. I've been lurking without speaking on their yahoo group for years now.

Cool, azertopia made this? Missed that one. Smile

Thanks.
Obviously I am by far the biggest fan of ADopplerEn EVAR!

I discovered something really awesome running the QChord through FireOne:

When you already have the main interface initiated (FireOne) you don't have to reboot your DAW just to plug in an actual midi-cable midi device (QChord)and use it. Oddly everything else I use has USB and I never actually bothered to plug a midi cable into my VX5 or anything like that.

(Oh thank Gaia or whomever - there's actually .pdf documentation in the downloaded archive of SuperMidiScripter)

You rock, Shamann. I'll post the script if I manage to grok it. Scripting = not my way of thinking Wink

dougsyo - Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:18 am

Maybe it can be done with vstlua as well.

Also, SuperMidiScripter.zip appears to really be a .rar file - it wouldn't open with Windows zip support, right-click and open with WinRar showed it to be a .rar file so I renamed it.

Doug

insertpizhere - Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:54 pm

shamann wrote:

I'd thought Mr. insertpiz might have something appropriate:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192282

But I'm not sure any of those could drop channels in bulk.

midiChs_noGUI will do that. it can reroute channels, or if you set a channel to below 1 ("--"), it's blocked.

shamann - Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:09 pm

Thanks, good to know, it seemed like something you would have already covered.

insertpizhere - Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:35 pm

runagate wrote:

have you tried my midi monitor? it will record basically an unlimited amount of data, and then you can scroll back up to see it. it's also resizable, so you can see more at once.

runagate - Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:15 pm

I love your resizable GUIs!

Problem is: no internet at home. So this is taking forever.
I did use your plug to record the midi (obviously I have all you and nic's but not the documentation necessarily) and it's... even more bizarre than I thought.

I even resorted to midiOx but can't understand the midi routing from the documentation... I think the "filter" I set up worked great, but I can't seem to interface this with the midi yoke to my DAWs... I think I need to make "maps" or somesuch. Ugh. The "pointless" pitchbend which gets sent on every chord change also all gets sent on the same channel as the pitchbend wheel, which is infuriating and I think might mean I simply have to not use PB at all on the device.

Thanks. I'll be back again Wink

insertpizhere - Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:26 pm

that is weird. the only thing i can think of is if the pitch bend messages on chord changes are large jumps and the ones from the wheel are in smaller steps, there could be a way to fix it. i would be interested to see a midi file of this thing's output...

runagate - Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:39 pm

will do

I certainly would like to make something that'd enable this device to work for others in the future

I paid $125 for it
Nothing else has a midi "strum plate" nor 84 chords Wink

Contrariwise, the EWI just works as advertised. Suzuki, what in hell were you thinking? lol

runagate - Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:34 am

midi log

That's a download link to my attempt to capture midi-ox data (which failed) and record the output in FL, saved as a midi file.

SuperMidiScripter obviously would work but after 2 hours of trying to parse it I obviously am in over my head. I think it's beyond my ken Sad

insertpizhere - Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:04 pm

ok, i see some center pitch bend (along with some other junk) at the beginning and end of the midi file, and some normal-looking pitch bend in the middle.

is it the stuff at the beginning and end that needs to be filtered out?

runagate - Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:19 pm

insertpizhere wrote:

Woot! I'm getting wifi and I saw that you DLed the file so I came back to check.

Well, let's see. "center" pitchbend - that's smart. I didn't think of that. The random piles of PB come from changing chords with the "chord buttons" regardless of whether you are stumming the plate or not. You're correct that the "centered" PB messages are coming from the actual whell I was playing.

The EWI also sends "centered" PB messages from both the "bite sensor" in the mouthpiece and from the "up" and "down" thumb sensor plates - unless you reassign it to send midi CC#s.

Channel 10 always sends drum notes, no matter what. Which is idiotic.

QChord Manual wrote:

MIDI Channel 3 - CHORD PLUS
MIDI Channel 5 - AUTO CHORD 1
MIDI Channel 6- AUTO CHORD 2
MIDI Channel 7- AUTO CHORD 3
MIDI Channel 8- AUTO CHORD 4
MIDI Channel 9 - BASS
MIDI Channel 10- DRUMS
MIDI Channel 14,15,16 - STRUMPLATE
Your MIDI device should have the ability to receive all MIDI channels or
to channel select to receive only the channels that you desire.

CC# 7, 61, 90 & 93... I think that these up/down arrow or dial controllers could come in handy. Looking at the captured data it seems that those CC's are sent only when you muck with the actual physical controls and not just arbitarily like some of the other junk. And in Midi-Ox there's a LOT of junk...

Prog Change: mostly an annoyance, though potentially useful to some users. I don't use this type of message so I'm not familiar with it's use in my DAWs.

It also sens Stystem :Clock and Realtime :Commands whatever the hell that is.

Now let me ask you this, and I think I've verified this but I'd like to be sure: If I keep just the channels 14, 15 & 16 it'll send all the relevant notes and I can just ignore the "chord plus" on channel 3 unless I for some reason don't want to use the "strum plate", correct?

Seems loony to me that 4 octaves of strum sensors get sent on 3 channels of midi. I'm thinking that I'll route all 3 of those to just one channel. That I know how to do without any problem.

runagate - Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:29 pm

screenshot of QChord behavior in Midi-Ox

I can't seem to get any of the types of "log" to work in Midi-Ox, so here's a pic.

insertpizhere - Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:26 pm

i think midi-ox only logs its own output, not its input. so you have to route the input to some output within midi-ox to get anything to show in the log.

FL must be doing something weird when capturing or saving the midi file, because everything in it is on channel 1. therefore it's hard to say anything about how to filter the channels... also, the pitch bend in your midi-ox screenshot looks pretty weird, but i didn't see anything like that in the midi file.

runagate - Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:06 pm

hmm I'll keep plugging away at it keeping hyour advice in mind

I figure once I hit on a solution I can keep it forever and pass it along to the next sucka

FL's channel thing... it's because you have to "prepare" it for midi export with a macro then export as a midi file. I'd forgotten about it reducing it all to channel 1. It's not as though all the midi info gets into FL anyways, it just ignores a lot of it.

/thinking cap on

runagate - Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:04 pm

Oddly setting the midi channel to "--" in Usine has no discernable effect in Usine on any of my midi gear. Would setting everything to -- block all midi signals? It doesn't appear to be the case for me.

Optomadic - Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:45 pm

insertpizhere wrote:

FL must be doing something weird when capturing or saving the midi file, because everything in it is on channel 1. therefore it's hard to say anything about how to filter the channels...

Yea FL does add a bunch of nasty messages that you cannot turn off. Very annoying.

insertpizhere - Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:13 pm

runagate wrote:

whoops. it's broken. i wonder when that happened?

here is a working version: http://thepiz.org/xt/midiChs_noGUI.zip

if you "clear" it (set all channels to --) it will block any midi message that has a channel (notes, CCs, program change, etc). it won't do anything about midi clock or other weird stuff.

runagate - Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:05 am

Thank you, sir. Not being a newbie I immediately went and DLed all the most recent pizpluggies. You've been busy while I was gone.

BTW I have a touchscreen again (12" ELO lmao) and can't quite use your midipads to play percussion - the latency is a bit drastic for that. But it's ridiculously useful nonetheless.

I got my midi > VSTi > sound out latency to be imperceptible last night so I'm about as happy as a hillbilly at a barn dance. QChord, soon you will obey!

insertpizhere - Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:38 pm

i really need to make an actual useful website for my midi plugins. there are too many now, and it's too hard to figure out what they do. and then there are things like my version of Middy Morphy, which is kind of hard to find.

anyway, i'm still interested in helping with the midi filtering of the qchord... i think i could figure it out fairly easily if i had an accurate midi recording of it.

runagate - Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:43 am

I'll try to get that to you.

I'll attempt to make some sort of "Piz Quickstart" and test the features. There's so many spread across so many plug-ins, but really only I have the attention span for that kind of crap. I don't know why I do, but I do.

MidiChs_noGUI did indeed work for me. I'll post a Usine VST free version template once I get it working a little better. You can imagine what with all the repurposing of gear with custom drivers and tons of midi messages across all this hardware and other configuration craziness it's taking a while to isolate any given conflict. But I really did use your plug-in to strum the chords I was pressing and have them, in realtime, pop out of the VSTi inside Usine. I was pretty freakin' happy with that. The "strumplate" is a tempermental and imprecise thing so my technique is still developing, and I'm spreading my attention across far too many different things in my evil music lab but I'm still commited to having a simple plug-n-play type solution to using this bizarre thing as a live performance and easy chord composing instrument that other people can just download and go with.

piz, have I ever told you you rock?

BTW Alias 2 is by far the most fun thing to play via EWI of the couple dozen plug-ins I've tried out so far. I gotta get it configured properly for "breath control" and "breath-based aftertouch" but aside from the fact that pitch is totally unpredictable so one has to practice playing each particular patch to see wtf is going to happen for each note fingering, it's just a pure delight. Crazy as hell! Especially with the way it reacts to pitch bend, and the EWI has 2 ways of bending pitch, plus 2 assignable CC#s that get expressed as well to route to VST parameters. Can't wait to get my expression pedal into the mix with that bastard. Worth the price of the EWI all by itself!

shamann - Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:52 am

Related to this, anyone know if there's a MIDI monitor plugin (rather than standalone like MIDIOX) that can export to text file?

aMUSEd - Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:54 am

Try Jaltoh's Thalamus from here:

http://geocities.com/asenov_z/zerovjane.html

it can do all sorts of midi filtering - far more extensive than any other midi filter I've seen - as well as lots of other midi stuff.

runagate - Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:22 am

How'd I forget this, aMUSED? Thanks!

Somehow this never made it onto my most recent XP install... from 3 years ago!

insertpizhere - Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:50 am

shamann wrote:

Related to this, anyone know if there's a MIDI monitor plugin (rather than standalone like MIDIOX) that can export to text file?

hmmm, i should add that to mine. you can sort of do it now, by selecting the text and pasting it into a text file.

runagate - Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:15 pm

insertpizhere wrote:

shamann wrote:

Related to this, anyone know if there's a MIDI monitor plugin (rather than standalone like MIDIOX) that can export to text file?

hmmm, i should add that to mine. you can sort of do it now, by selecting the text and pasting it into a text file.

Lol, oddly that didn't occur to me, to try to select the text
I will do that
This is why being offline makes all this crap take too long!

insertpizhere - Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:23 pm

runagate wrote:

BTW Alias 2 is by far the most fun thing to play via EWI of the couple dozen plug-ins I've tried out so far. I gotta get it configured properly for "breath control" and "breath-based aftertouch" but aside from the fact that pitch is totally unpredictable so one has to practice playing each particular patch to see wtf is going to happen for each note fingering, it's just a pure delight. Crazy as hell! Especially with the way it reacts to pitch bend, and the EWI has 2 ways of bending pitch, plus 2 assignable CC#s that get expressed as well to route to VST parameters. Can't wait to get my expression pedal into the mix with that bastard. Worth the price of the EWI all by itself!

sounds great. i'd love to hear some of it.

i'll also check out the usine template when it's ready... it's always cool to see my plugins in use.

Quote:

Lol, oddly that didn't occur to me, to try to select the text
I will do that
This is why being offline makes all this crap take too long!

i'm sure you figured it out, but right-click for "select all" and "copy"...

or use the new version with a "save" button that i just uploaded: http://thepiz.org/xt/midiMonitor.zip

runagate - Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:35 pm

http://www.box.net/shared/2s54x0n4f8

http://www.box.net/shared/qlaavd8l78

the first is a pizMidiMonitor file of QChord midi prior to the Chs, the second is the exact same, except after the Chs filter. Smile

insertpizhere - Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:41 pm

ok, the pitch wheel data is completely insane, but i think i might understand what it's trying (and failing) to do...

i guess with the chs filter you're routing 14, 15, and 16 to channel 1, and ignoring other channels?

i noticed in the unfiltered file that there is also pitch wheel on channel 1. could that be the "real" pitch wheel? if so, you could try keeping only the notes from 14, 15, and 16, and keeping only the pitch wheel from channel 1, and routing all of that to a single midi stream on channel 1.

that's my first impression, anyway.

edit: second impression... i guess i was wrong, you're blocking 9 and 10 and routing everything else to 1. and the notes on channels 14, 15, and 16 are all Cs, so maybe try blocking those three channels altogether.

runagate - Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:09 pm

I didn't notice the "detented at 64" pitchwheel being on channel 1.
How odd. That's not even documented. I hit the physical pitch wheel every once in a while.

I did indeed route 14, 15 & 16 to 1.

I'm having trouble parsing it all to understand whether the data on 14, 15 and 16 are really what the strum plate is sending. I played all sorts of chors, but various VSTi receiving the data sometimes simply stop switching pitch.

The intended behavior of the PB due to chord changes is correctly switching the pitch of sustaining notes when a new chord button is pressed when sent to a General Midi soundbank.

And I guess it works that way.

Unfortunately, when I strip the PB info out it seems that the result is that sustaining notes do not receive a note off message, and just hang on the previously sustaining note.

Which is infuriating. It took me a while to think this all through. I really can't believe how whacko this thing implements midi. As though someone is actually going to pay $20 to buy a non-programmable sound card and play Beatles songs at a wedding with this thing?!

It may come down to me having to figure out wtf I have that's GM capable and using only that.

insertpizhere - Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:26 pm

i looked at it some more and edited my reply above. anyway, it doesn't look like 14, 15, and 16 are sending any chord notes, just C notes and nonsensical pitch bend. so i would try blocking those completely.

if you haven't already, i would try listening to each channel one at a time to see which notes you really want.

this is weird... using pitch bend to change chords doesn't make any sense. and i don't understand why blocking pitch bend would cause hanging notes.

i think i could understand it better with a midi file, and i could try filtering it myself...

runagate - Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:36 pm

Hmm I'm not explaining this right.

I shall capture midi. Oddly I assumed til I tried it that that's what the midimonitor update did, though in retrospect that's silly. I'm having on-again-off-again wifi thus the snatchy attention to this.

Jebus, you rock piz. I talked about you at an informal speech about the new world of digital music online today.

I just can't seem to be analytical about this. My plug-ins, yes. But hardware just muddles my brain somehow.

bbiab

insertpizhere - Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:50 pm

ok. i think i'm really starting to get it. here is my theory.

14, 15, and 16 are sent by the strum plate. they're always C notes, with their "actual" pitch determined by the "weird" pitch bend. the actual pitch wheel is sent on channel 1.

routing all this to the same channel causes 4 conflicting pitch bend messages... to make all this actually work would be tricky. i have some ideas though.

in the midi file you sent before, i also noticed that the strum plate notes were overlapping. that might cause hanging notes, this at least can be corrected.

i could be totally wrong about all this of course...

shamann - Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:51 pm

insertpizhere wrote:

or use the new version with a "save" button that i just uploaded: http://thepiz.org/xt/midiMonitor.zip

You rock!

insertpizhere - Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:57 pm

runagate wrote:

maybe i'm silly too, but i thought about adding that feature to it as well. i didn't have time, but i might do still do it. i have to figure out how to handle the timing, but i think i already did it, basically, with midiLooper...

Quote:

Jebus, you rock piz. I talked about you at an informal speech about the new world of digital music online today.

that is very flattering.

insertpizhere - Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:02 pm

shamann wrote:

insertpizhere wrote:

or use the new version with a "save" button that i just uploaded: http://thepiz.org/xt/midiMonitor.zip

You rock!

cool, three times in one thread... i'm actually starting to believe that i rock.

normal - Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:24 pm

apropos of little , in this thread , i will not be satisfied , until i hear you do a rendition of ' old rugged cross ' ...

http://www.qchord.net/docs/sounds.htm

tessa ...
Love

insertpizhere - Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:49 pm

here's a new build of midiMonitor that can save a midi file. specify a ".mid" extension to save a midi file, otherwise it's a text file like before.

http://thepiz.org/xt/midiMonitor.zip

dougsyo - Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:57 am

insertpizhere wrote:

here's a new build of midiMonitor that can save a midi file. specify a ".mid" extension to save a midi file, otherwise it's a text file like before.

http://thepiz.org/xt/midiMonitor.zip

You've heard it before, piz, but you rock!

Doug

RSP-atron - Sun May 03, 2009 10:31 pm

I'm so glad someone it trying to figure this out. I've been trying to find a way to do this for the last 8 years. Really. i don't know a lot about Midi, but here are the things I've noticed. You are correct about the strumplate data. all the notes and chord information is being done via pitch bend. I also have a OM-300 (the omnichord released before the Q-chord) that transmits 4 midi channels, I never had a problem recording midi information via Logic. the strumplate came through perfectly. However there was no pitch bend wheel and the strumplate notes were all on one midi channel.

One interesting note: If I connect the Q-chord to a Yamaha QY-70 all the midi information is interpreted properly, however if the QY-70 is connected to a computer, the midi Data from the q-chord will note record properly, while any data from the QY-70 comes through fine.

I hope some one can figure this out. the Q-chord would make a great controller.

Thanks

RSP

runagate - Sun May 03, 2009 10:35 pm

Is the QY-70 a GM module, RSP? Qchord works fine with GM, which is why it doesn't with anything else.

Suffice it to say since you found this thread I'll try some more to figure this out tomorrow.

RSP-atron - Mon May 04, 2009 5:22 am

runagate wrote:

Is the QY-70 a GM module, RSP? Qchord works fine with GM, which is why it doesn't with anything else.

Suffice it to say since you found this thread I'll try some more to figure this out tomorrow.

Yes it is GM.

insertpizhere - Mon May 04, 2009 5:42 am

just send me a midi file of it (saved with midiMonitor) and i can probably make a midi plugin that will sort it all out.

RSP-atron - Thu May 07, 2009 9:28 am

Hello all

here are two file

1. is the data going into Midi Monitor

http://www.betatronstudios.com/Q-Chord/Midi_monitorDATA.zip

2. Is a split channel file in Logic

If you look in the hyper editor the ptich bend information is in channels 14 through 16, but it's not doing anthing.

the other thing that is strange is that the note length defaults to 1/32 on the strumplate notes.

http://www.betatronstudios.com/Q-Chord/Q-Chord_LOGIC.zip

Hope someone can figure this out,

thank you

R. Scott

insertpizhere - Thu May 07, 2009 10:54 am

i can't use either of those files... what i need is a standard midi file. i'm sure you could export one from Logic.

(the "midiMonitor" i referred to is the plugin from me, linked a few posts up, but i haven't made an AU version that could be used in Logic)

RSP-atron - Thu May 07, 2009 11:46 am

Oooopppps Sorry

I'll get you one in a few minutes

yardko - Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:18 pm

insertpizhere wrote:

I ran into this thread with the same problems. So far I can only get the QChord -namely the strumplate- to work with midi when I use it going into my QY-70 (which is kind of neat being able to pick three different sounds for the three channels the strumplate gets transmitted on) and also with certain soundfonts (I think they have to be GM compatible?) just being streaming in Midi-Ox. Otherwise you get a stream of C notes.

How I'm envisioning the QChord being useful for my crappy midi sequencer (and then possibly routed to VST's or other things) is if there was a way to take the pitch bend information that gets sent when you change the chords and actually transpose the notes on the channels to their real notes. I've never heard of or been able to find any info on this.

Merging the three channels to one isn't an issue, either I can figure out how to do that in Midi-Ox (filtering out the extra channels was easy enough, esp the grating ch 10) and route with midi yoke and also when I record to my crappy PC midi sequencer it takes all the midi channel note info and plays it to one instrument. I realize I could probably use a better midi sequencer but everything else works just fine for me aside from trying to get the Qchord strumplate notes.

It wouldn't matter to me if the pitch bend wheel functioned while recording, that's more a live effect or something I would sequence.

So you experts can help I captured the strumplate with all other channels filtered out in midi-ox to a text midi file and converted it to a .mid with mf2t both zipped here: http://www.surrealistflamebait.com/qchord.zip

What I did was turn the QChord on, switched to the strumplate only mode which I later realized didn't matter with everything else filtered and started playing. I changed the presets a couple times and right near the end I also hit the actual pitch bend wheel just to cover the bases. When you see a couple pitch bends in a row is where I am hitting two of the chord buttons to create a 7 or augmented chord, it only works when you press them quickly together but looks like it registers a couple pressed.

If you guys need any more data to help like a log of all the channels or anything let me know. I'd really like to figure this out be it some kidn of rexx script or vst midi filter that I would probably route from midi-ox to audiomulch to run the vst to my midi sequencer. Well at any rate I'm hopeful..

insertpizhere - Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:13 pm

yardko wrote:

http://www.surrealistflamebait.com/qchord.zip

ok, i think i can use this. i'll try using the pitch bend on each channel to transpose the notes on that channel, then send out the transposed notes on channel 1 along with the "actual" pitch wheel.

is there a free soundfont that will play this correctly, so i can see how it's supposed to sound?

insertpizhere - Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:44 pm

http://thepiz.org/pizmidi/midiPitchBendToNotes.zip

this should turn the pitch bend plus C notes into the correct notes. it will read the pitch bend range if it's set by the associated RPN, otherwise it assumes +/-12 semitones, which is what the QChord sets.

i don't know if it will work right when moving the actual pitch wheel, because the channel 1 data wasn't in that midi file for me to test it.

actually, you'll probably get better results by running the original midi to three instances of a VSTi, where each one responds to channel 14, 15, or 16. that should work with anything that can set its pitch bend range to 12.

runagate - Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:49 pm

Wicked, you rock.
I'll test it out tonight. Though, without net access at home, it might be a bit before I get back to you Wink

kavastic - Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:43 am

insertpizhere wrote:

Hi all,

I just got a q-chord myself - didn't think about that the midi implementation could be such a crap,
I'm using Logic Audio on Mac - and tried to do some channel filtering and stuff in the enviroment - i managed to get out the annoying channel 10, and summed up the other (also tried it without) but i still get only C or D notes.

any Mac users here who can help me?

tom

runagate - Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:21 am

You have to put the QChord into the right "mode"
I can't recall what you call that mode, but it's not your Mac's fault.

I'm fairly certain I stashed my QChord info urls around here somewhere...

ashtarbrian - Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:20 pm

so did anyone have any luck making a logic environment for this midi beast? started working on one, but am getting befuddled..... would appreciate any tips!

CinningBao - Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:42 am

Dayum this is old, and I guess I'm a little behind the times here, but I bought myself a q-chord yesterday withOUT looking for this kind of information about the midi implementation of these expensive little toys.

However, having looked at the midi data pouring out of this thing it looks like it's all on channel 1? I'm using Plogue's midi monitoring which isn't usually so wrong (and thankfully 'assume channel 1' is now off by default! (that caught me out a few times years ago..)) and it's coming through a trusty old MT4.

I dig the previous pages analysis of the data and what appears to be a useful plugin from insertpizhere designed to reroute the pitch bend data to the 14/15/16 midi channels, though the link is now dead. Are any q-chord owners using it in the way we all thought we could? I imagined using the strumplate data to trigger pads on softsynths, sounds very simple but based on the previous posts here I'm not sure now!

First things first though, is this a defective unit? Do I need to put it into a different mode to start sending the midi data over the expected channels?

Thanks!

Do I need to apologise to a mod for dredging up this old thread? I just wanted to try to keep related information together in one thread..

CinningBao - Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:32 am

Helloooo?? Has every one who was using this died?

I opened a ticket with Suzuki UK to officially ask for all the midi documentation on the q-chord from Suzuki Japan to assist with this. Assuming I get back something vaguely useful, I will forward it to those who ask, unless otherwise requested by Suzuki.

insertpizhere - Sat May 26, 2012 6:14 am

In case anyone is still looking for it, midiPitchBendToNotes is part of the regular pizmidi collection.

runagate - Sat May 26, 2012 6:23 am

What in bloody hell? I literally just pressed send on a PM asking you about this, and haven't even glanced at these forums for ages...

You're telepathic in addition to all your other glorious traits!

CinningBao - Sat May 26, 2012 1:29 pm

I don't want to sound like a fart but is there a mac equivalent anywhere?

ashtarbrian - Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:45 pm

Wow, it's been another 3 years and still looking for a solution. I have a QChord, and Ableton Live etc, has anyone found a way on a mac to filter the midi data properly? Or made a Max4Live device or whatnot? I figured it would be pretty easy to filter out the unnecessary midi data from the channels i DIDN"T want, but did not know the strumplate required pitchbend info etc.... but would love love love if someone had a solution for this.. I'm on a mac too...

thanks

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