KVR :: Nucleus SoundLab » Sorry. Patches Dont Clip. User Error Admitted. [View Original Topic]
There are 31 posts in this topic.
chicken muffin - Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:43 am
sorry.
whyterabbyt - Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:54 am
i guess we can all expect 17 pages of nonsense before user-error is admitted.
shamann - Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:01 am
whyterabbyt wrote:
i guess we can all expect 17 pages of nonsense before user-error is admitted.
Yay!
vespers75 - Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:11 am
whyterabbyt wrote:
i guess we can all expect 17 pages of nonsense before user-error is admitted.
Only 17?
chicken muffin - Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:14 am
sorry.
whyterabbyt - Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:20 am
chicken muffin wrote:
don't tell me i don't know what im talking about. ive been using reason now for over a year
wow, as long as that, eh? i bet that's longer than anyone else on the entire planet evar.
pandashake - Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:42 am
Why not just turn them down so they don't clip? Just about EVERY preset designer is guilty of this at some time or another - and some just about all the time. Just lower the fader volumes 6-12db on all your Pantheon (I'm guessing it's a combinator ordeal) tracks and be done with it. You can then shuffle through the presets until your ears grow sore without seeing it clip once.
dgkenney - Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:45 am
whyterabbyt wrote:
i guess we can all expect 17 pages of nonsense before user-error is admitted.
Wake me @ 15.
Dan
UltraJv - Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:06 am
Meh - we cant even do the Mac vs PC one on this
yairhol - Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:20 am
Hi,
Even some of Spectrasonics' Omnisphere patches clip when played at default volume. Spectrasonics say that this could be and we should just lower the volume on those patches. Easy enough.
chicken muffin - Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:35 am
sorry.
jjkinva - Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:36 am
chicken muffin wrote:
don't tell me i don't know what im talking about. ive been using reason now for over a year
...and still hasn't found the Shift key... 
fanfarecircuit - Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:37 am
chicken muffin wrote:
hmm. well that's not the way i believe sounds should be designed. i guess we have different opinion of quality. when patches clip that's just pure laziness.
just because a lot of sound designers do it/allow it, doesn't make it any less acceptable accept by those who accept it. i don't. and am very upset when my patches clip cause when i design sounds they never do. and they shouldn't. theres no reason why a person can take 3-4 hours maybe more designing a sound and then not take the time to level the sound properly. pure laziness.
just because a lot of sound designers do it/allow it, doesn't make it any less acceptable accept by those who accept it. i don't. and am very upset when my patches clip cause when i design sounds they never do. and they shouldn't. theres no reason why a person can take 3-4 hours maybe more designing a sound and then not take the time to level the sound properly. pure laziness.
i agree with you.
chicken muffin - Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:45 am
sorry.
Jeremy_NSL - Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:50 pm
I volume-balanced every single patch in Pantheon II. You are welcome to email me a list of any patches you are having trouble with.
whyterabbyt - Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:51 am
fanfarecircuit wrote:
chicken muffin wrote:
hmm. well that's not the way i believe sounds should be designed. i guess we have different opinion of quality. when patches clip that's just pure laziness.
just because a lot of sound designers do it/allow it, doesn't make it any less acceptable accept by those who accept it. i don't. and am very upset when my patches clip cause when i design sounds they never do. and they shouldn't. theres no reason why a person can take 3-4 hours maybe more designing a sound and then not take the time to level the sound properly. pure laziness.
just because a lot of sound designers do it/allow it, doesn't make it any less acceptable accept by those who accept it. i don't. and am very upset when my patches clip cause when i design sounds they never do. and they shouldn't. theres no reason why a person can take 3-4 hours maybe more designing a sound and then not take the time to level the sound properly. pure laziness.
i agree with you.
dont you feel silly now too?
vespers75 - Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:53 am
zvenx - Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:59 am
whyterabbyt wrote:
i guess we can all expect 17 pages of nonsense before user-error is admitted.
lol.....this turn out to be so correct eh?
rsp
vespers75 - Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:09 am
It didn't make it to several pages only because Jeremy caught the thread early. The end result was still accurately predicted.
Chester Desmond - Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:31 am
rofl..this reminds of that scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark where the angry Arab is showing off with his sword..
jonnyG - Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:45 am
I'm expecting a cheap copy of Reason to appear in the marketplace any time now...
chicken muffin - Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:34 am
jonnyG wrote:
I'm expecting a cheap copy of Reason to appear in the marketplace any time now...
you wish!
Jeremy_NSL - Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:37 am
Ok, well there isn't much more to say here. But I'll try to end with some constructive info on clipping.
I'm totally open to criticism if you have problems with my patches. Fanfarecircuit, if you found clipping I'd appreciate if you could email me about it.
I literally did spend hours volume-balancing all Combinators in Pantheon I, Pantheon II and Synthetic Kits though - so really it should be pretty even and not clipping. Of course, with some of the polyphonic patches, if you play enough notes at once clipping can occur. Typically I'd balance the polyphonic stuff so you could play at least 5-6 notes cleanly. If you are playing massive 10-note full velocity chords then you may need to turn down the mixer channel.
The other caveat is that with complex patches like these, with Combinator rotaries/buttons mapped to multiple destinations, sometimes its possible to find a specific combination of rotary/button settings that can raise the output level quite a bit. Its hard to balance for every possible combination of settings... The flipside of this is that some other developers sets of patches are based on templates and thus very predictable in terms of output level.
And finally, many of the patches do have either a Limiter or Compressor to safeguard levels. I don't think that replaces proper volume-balancing though. Furthermore if you use a M-Class Limiter on every patch its a large waste of CPU.
fanfarecircuit - Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:00 pm
whyterabbyt wrote:
dont you feel silly now too?
why would i feel silly for saying something positive to someone that was about to be publically humiliated by a mob of jerks?
do you feel silly for continually following me around the forum? you don't have anything better to do? is your calling in life really just to be an internet bully?
fanfarecircuit - Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:03 pm
Jeremy_NSL wrote:
Fanfarecircuit, if you found clipping I'd appreciate if you could email me about it.
no, you misunderstood. i haven't used your product. i was just defending chickenmuffin because i thought his statement was generally reasonable and he was about to get his ass handed to him.
chicken muffin wrote:
hmm. well that's not the way i believe sounds should be designed. i guess we have different opinion of quality. when patches clip that's just pure laziness.
just because a lot of sound designers do it/allow it, doesn't make it any less acceptable accept by those who accept it. i don't. and am very upset when my patches clip cause when i design sounds they never do. and they shouldn't. theres no reason why a person can take 3-4 hours maybe more designing a sound and then not take the time to level the sound properly. pure laziness.
just because a lot of sound designers do it/allow it, doesn't make it any less acceptable accept by those who accept it. i don't. and am very upset when my patches clip cause when i design sounds they never do. and they shouldn't. theres no reason why a person can take 3-4 hours maybe more designing a sound and then not take the time to level the sound properly. pure laziness.
no mention of nucleus soundlab in the comment i agreed with. just his general thought on sound design and finalizing patches.
Jeremy_NSL - Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:14 pm
Hey ok. I understand, its the principle you agree with. I do to! I spend 10+ hours on some patches - so a few minutes making sure they are balanced is just a drop in the bucket
fanfarecircuit wrote:
no mention of nucleus soundlab in the comment i agreed with. just his general thought on sound design and finalizing patches.
Chester Desmond - Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:17 pm
Quote:
i was just defending chickenmuffin because i thought his statement was generally reasonable and he was about to get his ass handed to him.
his question was reasonable..his statement was delivered in a socially retarded manner which I believe had a lot to do with the way his ass was subsequently handled.
fanfarecircuit - Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:19 pm
Chester Desmond wrote:
his question was reasonable..his statement was delivered in a socially retarded manner which I believe had a lot to do with the way his ass was subsequently handled.
so? i can understand that. i've been guilty of the same thing a few times...
anyway, this thread has gotten me interested in the soundcell sale... so no harm done. i guess all publicity IS good publicity.
and i think it's great that chickenmuffin is humble enough to admit when he's wrong... that's hardly "socially retarded".
ouroboros - Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:24 pm
Jeremy_NSL wrote:
Ok, well there isn't much more to say here. But I'll try to end with some constructive info on clipping.
I'm totally open to criticism if you have problems with my patches. Fanfarecircuit, if you found clipping I'd appreciate if you could email me about it.
I literally did spend hours volume-balancing all Combinators in Pantheon I, Pantheon II and Synthetic Kits though - so really it should be pretty even and not clipping. Of course, with some of the polyphonic patches, if you play enough notes at once clipping can occur. Typically I'd balance the polyphonic stuff so you could play at least 5-6 notes cleanly. If you are playing massive 10-note full velocity chords then you may need to turn down the mixer channel.
The other caveat is that with complex patches like these, with Combinator rotaries/buttons mapped to multiple destinations, sometimes its possible to find a specific combination of rotary/button settings that can raise the output level quite a bit. Its hard to balance for every possible combination of settings... The flipside of this is that some other developers sets of patches are based on templates and thus very predictable in terms of output level.
And finally, many of the patches do have either a Limiter or Compressor to safeguard levels. I don't think that replaces proper volume-balancing though. Furthermore if you use a M-Class Limiter on every patch its a large waste of CPU.
polyphonic patches with lots of modulations and controls are a bear to get the levels reasonable on. I think 5note chords should be some sort of an industry standard! I'm totally open to criticism if you have problems with my patches. Fanfarecircuit, if you found clipping I'd appreciate if you could email me about it.
I literally did spend hours volume-balancing all Combinators in Pantheon I, Pantheon II and Synthetic Kits though - so really it should be pretty even and not clipping. Of course, with some of the polyphonic patches, if you play enough notes at once clipping can occur. Typically I'd balance the polyphonic stuff so you could play at least 5-6 notes cleanly. If you are playing massive 10-note full velocity chords then you may need to turn down the mixer channel.
The other caveat is that with complex patches like these, with Combinator rotaries/buttons mapped to multiple destinations, sometimes its possible to find a specific combination of rotary/button settings that can raise the output level quite a bit. Its hard to balance for every possible combination of settings... The flipside of this is that some other developers sets of patches are based on templates and thus very predictable in terms of output level.
And finally, many of the patches do have either a Limiter or Compressor to safeguard levels. I don't think that replaces proper volume-balancing though. Furthermore if you use a M-Class Limiter on every patch its a large waste of CPU.
Chester Desmond - Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:25 pm
Quote:
so? i can understand that. i've been guilty of the same thing a few times...
IKnow..
fanfarecircuit - Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:27 pm
Chester Desmond wrote:
IKnow..
clever... that one took me a second.
There are 31 posts in this topic.