KVR :: Hardware (Instruments and Effects) » Your next amp [View Original Topic]
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Hink - Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:07 pm

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thought we should have an amp version of hibidy's guitar thread.

Since moving I have this big walk-in closet perfectly placed to be used for vox and mic'd cabs. I just had the boogie in there at 2 1/2 (on half power) which was very loud and quick to grab the feedback . My neighbor downstairs was home and said he wouldn't have noticed had he not be listening for it. The guy is great, 61 years old and anytime I ask "am I too loud" he says "hey you gotta live but I never hear you".

The boogie is just too much amp still so I've decided 2011 and maybe 2012 will find me with a new 1x12, a 2x12 open back cab and some lower wattage amps. I tried the Orange Tiny Terror which is sweet but found it to be a one trick pony, I tried the Ibanez Tube Screamer tube amp head which was cool and is on my list as is the The T5 BUD25

But the T5 is not anytime soon at 1,700 dollars and the Ibanez needs a little more time on the market to see how it holds up.

After the taxes are done and the dust settles I think the next amp will be an Egnater Rebel 20 watt I really liked this, I was able to A/B it with the TT a few weeks ago and it's fantastic. Yes it got as nasty as the TT but with the tube mix it got very sweet too...I'll buy it through American Musical though because of the splitting up the payments over three months.

Also in my sights is a Blackstar HT-5H, the place I buy parts and pickups, guitar parts depot sells them at a nice price (329 usd).

TBH the 4x12 I have now may get stuffed away as I go along because I'll be better off with 1x12 or 2x12 here so I can get feedback easier. (Egnater matching 1x12 for sure and I'm looking at a Laney open back 2x12) My 4x12 is a Crate but when I worked at a small music store there was a Fender 4x12 cab in the basement that the cab was toast and the boss said just dump it...I took the speakers from the Crate and put them in the Fender an took the old (but in great shape) old Celestions for my Crate...so any cab I buy for mic'ing can have them as well.

So what is your next amp?

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fateamenabletochange - Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:42 pm

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Seen the Egnaters, but haven't tried them....The Rebel 30 does have the XLR Direct Record Output which would give you another layer

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Hink - Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:48 pm

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I have a Ted Weber attenuator, I looked at the 30 but I like the 20 better.

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susiwong - Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:18 pm

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Guess it had to happen ...
Threads like these are bad for my bank account.

Having most of the basics covered I'll probably let fate decide ...
So all I can name here are a few (rather different) candidates, I'll wait for whatever (used) opportunity will come up.
One of the following would sure find a good home here :
- a Soldano, probably of the 50/60 W variety
- a DrZ Maz 38/Sr
- a nice 2203 (JMP or early 800) might be an option
- last but not least, I wouldn't turn down a Simulclass Mk II Mesa
All that said, something completely different might bite me in the ass ...

Hink, let me additionally suggest a Peavey Classic 30/50 (not your old enemy, talking about the EL84 ones), they hang pretty well with boutique amps costing several times as much, love pedals and cover everything from Tweed Bassman style to Hot Rod Marshall territory easily.
Built like tanks, a used one will be just fine (and affordable).
One thing however, the magic is in the power amp, crank them and prepare to be amazed, these are no bedroom amps.
Use your Weber ...

Ymmv,
susiwong

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Hink - Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:43 pm

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I have considered the Peavey Classic but tbh I want to stick to heads for now...just curious, in this day and age do you really need the power of an 800 (even if you get a 50 watt), boogie MKII or a Soldano? Remember when I first got the Weber I had problems with the Boogie? Well it's my fault, I bought a 50 watt weber, my Boogie is 100/60 so I figure I would be okay...not, so on my list is another Weber that's rated for at least 100 watts (and still run the amp on half power). If I keep the Boogie down enough the Weber is great but I want to crank the amp.

So yesterday the whole building was a little loud and I took advantage by turning the Boogie up some not through the Weber. 1/2 power both pre's on or close to 10 (I, know, I know)...the master at 2, tried to go to 3 but got about 3/4 of the way there and figured I was pushing my luck so I stopped. It was roaring though. What are you doing that you need such power? One could ask me the same thing but I have to have one beast right?

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susiwong - Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:26 pm

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- at least the Classic 50 has been available as a (very pretty) head, check the s/h market, they go rather cheap in the US. I think I saw a cute little C30 head once, but I might be mistaken here.
Just saying ...

- true, attenuators should be rated a lot higher than the amp's nominal output, a dimed 100 watt Marshall will put out closer to 180W in the real world.
The rated output is measured more or less with a clean sound.

- The big amp thing has several reasons for me, ymmv :
-- I often need really clean sounds on stage, with a loud drummer 50W often are not clean anymore
-- a 100W amp is not that much louder than a 50 watter but it has much more clean headroom
-- 6L6 or EL34 just react very different (more open, different kind of 3D) from a small EL84/6V6 output stage (not counting a few very pricey boutique designs), both are nice, my small amp needs are covered quite well by the Classic 50, a SF Deluxe Reverb modded to BF specs and a modded Blue Angel (the Dr Z would fit in nicely ), in the large category my main amp is a wonderful 1987 from '76, it screams like Gibbons, Haynes or Grissom . A Mesa Heartbreaker head does both Twin- and vintage Mark 1, some others have their own strengths.
-- I can play loud here and I do, hey, it's only rock'n'roll.
Recording unfortunately is problematic here (long story) so I rely on 80% tube pres and 20% sims atm.

Cheers,
susiwong

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susiwong - Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:35 pm

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Hink,
the Jet Citys are something I'm not sure about yet.
They sound quite good, and @ US street prices they might be worth a shot.
Here in Europe you can get a s/h SL60 or HR50 for not much more than a new JC head if you're lucky ...
Unless proven otherwise I assume they did cut corners with components, trannies and stuff, and the small parts (caps and resistors) do add up, too.
Ymmv,
susiwong

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Hanglow - Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:37 am

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I want so many Even though I only really play at home with the occasional jam.


I only have a couple of 5w tweed sounding heads and a 1 1/2w Firefly . So I have nothing that does clean well. Or anything that is nice and tight and defined

I was considering building something like the Brown Note D'Lite but I've never played one so I have no idea if I'd actually like it Clips do sound good to my ears


Also has anyone tried the Egnater Tweaker? Still not got round to trying one of those yet, supposed to be good value

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Hink - Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:37 pm

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thought about trying the jet city 1x12 cab, cheap, and maybe (depending on how it sounds) putting one of my celestions in it.

The Egnater Rebel will be mine sooner than expected, thanx to my wife and her golden touch on scratch tickets I have the disposable cash I need now to make it happen. I'll use the three payments from American Musical (I did this with my tele for the baritone). Just gotta go to the bank tomorrow, I will take the free shipping so it might take a week to get here but I can wait.

I was going to get it with taxes, now with taxes I'll go with a 1x12 cab but I'm not sure which yet and with the difference maybe a bigger Weber for the beast over there

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Hink - Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:45 pm

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btw this is all vandal's fault, it's so 'real' feeling and sounding it got me back to wanting more amps. I was forced to sell my little blues jr so I need this...next up after this?

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Dean Aka Nekro - Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:00 pm

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I poored nearly all my amp lust into the guitar thread but yeah good call Hink and i will be back soon to rattle on about my latest crush. For the meantime i have been loving the br00tal of these but they are very steep price wise:

Fortin Natas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fxxdf2ibvgg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MApWCD0Gdg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzolOFW8SYk

Fortin Meathead (no it is not an Acme Bar Gig thing!) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Otmb2Cazk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM7Svwuf0_8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7xBkMOqoo4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xUZ3v0Y8Kk

Another amp head in the above by accident
Fortin Modded JCM800 2203:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEhFg1_JmjM

...etc.

Want Natas, Must Have Natas, That Chunk Is Immense!

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Hink - Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:13 pm

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seeing how you Dean as do a few others have experience with the Marshall 9000...another very cool feature of the Rebel is it has an fx loop, which should also mean I'm getting an all tube power amp for the Marshall and it might be interesting how it works with the tube mix knob on the Rebel.

The 4x12 goes into the closet tomorrow along with two mics, an SM57 of course and one of the mics my cousin sells (Gauge), large diaphragm condenser and of course I'll be using the Weber for a line out...that will mean often I will recording at least 5 guitar tracks for every take. (one dry re-amp, one matching the dry but through a Boss CH-1 first, two mic'd and the weber line out

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fateamenabletochange - Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:55 pm

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ok then, see you have been giving this quite a bit of thought

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Hink - Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:04 pm

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I've got a pretty complicated rig, I actually have a 10" speaker deadbox I built in a cabinet too but it's not assembled right now. I've been using tube amps for almost 40 years of all shapes and sizes, found some pretty interesting ways of mic'ing them...I've given this more than quite a bit of thought.

I once mic'd up a cab in a bathroom, recorded it and then filled the bathtub and recorded again to see if it sounded different. Dont ask, I dont know...I did a lot of acid then

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susiwong - Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:08 pm

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Sorry to say, but that's hideous.
If somebody wants that tone, build a new amp or maybe mod a current production line Marshall, but butchering a classic vintage amp is stupidity.
He even recommends vertical input 2203s ...
I'm all for finetuning a classic, finding the right tubes, upgrading caps and resistors to higher specs, but never turn the amp into something completely different.
Feels like putting EMG HBs and a Floyd into a 59 Strat, hurts to think how many wonderful guitars were destroyed that way.

And while this might sound biased now, that Satan reverser doesn't even seem to be a half decent craftsman.
Why not at least give that poor ex-2203 a new chassis and front- and backplates, instead of this amateur hackjob ?
I wouldn't even trust that guy enough to let him rebias one of my amps.
Look a bit further, there are many great builders out there, also in the metal business.
Btw, I would object just as much if somebody put a spring reverb and tube tremolo in an old Marshall.

Sorry, rant over,
ymmv,
susiwong

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susiwong - Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:11 pm

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A bathtub full of acid ...
Respect !
That's what I'd call a lot, too.

Lol,
susiwong

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Dean Aka Nekro - Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:52 pm

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Well i would not buy a 2203 to have it modded, i would just buy that Natas build. Amazing for my stuff but i bet it sound shit clean. With Active buckers and Floyds all the way

He could of done a current 800 re-issue instead, i agree if not built the thing himself, Still if a customer asks and asks and asks the guy was bound to give in

I do agree but it does sound pretty good

Peace

Dean aka the lover of a butcher whom dabbles in all things sacred

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susiwong - Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:29 pm

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Granted, original amps are a different story.
Still, I know several builders (guitars, amps, FX) who wouldn't do a hackjob for anyone, including MacGyver, Charlie Marx and Berlusconi.
Check closely about build quality and components, in my eyes work ethos is a full time job.
What about those Labogas, especially the cheaper German Fame variants ?
They looked pretty well-built back then.
Of course tone is subjective, so that's not what I'm talking about.

Ymmv,
susiwong

sacred is relative, but destroying something good/legendary with limited supplies when you could just as well use current components doesn't make sense to me.
When will they realize you can't eat butchered Marshalls ?

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Dean Aka Nekro - Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:57 pm

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yeah i have NOT forgotten about that Laboga Hector Duo Master Mk II at all. Will have to check the cheaper branded builds you mentioned in case as i do not like the price of the Laboga, other than that it is great

When they run out of original SLPs and 800s i guess NO! Surely he could use say the Laney models for the same reason/purpose as they are cheaper but very similar with the single channel/master volume (models are LH-100/50s! IIRC)

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susiwong - Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:23 am

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When done correctly all that gets used is the trannies, not even the chassis mostly. Maybe the wooden box ...
At least that's how Larry (Grohmann, one of the better hot-rodders ) does it afaik, hey, would you want to reuse 20+ year old caps, resistors or pots ?
http://www.larry-amplification.de/gallery/?level=collection&id=1
And before I'd start modding a steel chassis I'd rather outsource that to the local metal workshop, they'll build a better one for sure.
So bottom line - why not keep the JCM800 stock, maybe sell it, get a set of Mercury or TAD trannies and base the new amp on them ?
That's what I meant in a nutshell.
Ymmv,
susiwong

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susiwong - Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:42 am

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afair :
Fame Overkill = Laboga Mr Hector


Fame Rockforce VII = little brother of Mr Hector
built for http://www.musicstore.de
not sold anymore, check German ebay
current Fames are built elsewhere, @ Yerasov in Russia for example
no guarantees - do your own research

Cheers,
susiwong

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Dean Aka Nekro - Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:56 am

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Cheers, noted down incase, not in any rush to spend though. However it is excellent resourse information for if i ever do mate

Nice one

Dean

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Hink - Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:29 am

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egnater rebel oredered...chose ground delivery so it may take a bit to get here (and then when it does I might have to wait an hour or two to allow the tubes to warm up to room temp first) review to follow when I get it

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jkleban - Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:34 am

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Believe it or not, the FENDER CHAMP (vintage) is a great AMP for recording. That aren't cheap (and they aren't loud) but sound GREAT on tape (or DAW) with nothing more than a 57.

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Dean Aka Nekro - Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:03 am

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Nice choice, i had a play around on the rebel and tweaker earlier in the year and liked FWIW man
Will certainly help when cranking, won't step on the Mesa's toes as they have a much more neutral voice i found (just my ears though). The tight control is good and will work with the baritone well i imagine

Looking forward to hearing how you get on with Bruce's little beast

Dean

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Hink - Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:03 am

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no doubt, I've seen the reissues but I haven't tried them yet

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Hink - Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:18 am

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I toyed with the idea of getting the Tweaker instead especially after eric in a pm told me how much he liked it but this time around I went with the Rebel because it's one of the two I played (tried an Orange TT too). I like the tube blend and the fx loop, the wattage control will be interesting in conjuction with my weber (my weber is under rated for the boogie, yes I can use it but I still have to hold back a lot).

I'm still interested in the Ibanez tubscreamer head and a few other 'micro tube heads'. However it's winter so a winter project might be to build a tubescreamer from general guitar gadgets (with the mod) so that might turn down my interest in the amp. The Blackheart Handsome Devil or whatever it's called looks interesting and I did like the TT, just not now.

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Dean Aka Nekro - Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:52 am

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You should give the Blackstar HT-5 (head only, the combo is meh due to the speaker and the head means you can use it with whatever you cab you wish - that is important to me anyway big time. Susspose you could pull out the stock 10" on the combo and put in what you prefer but that is more money then anyways) a whirl if you get chance. For the money it is pretty much faultless as a recording mini amp head! I would not go for the Ibanez mini-head with the tubescreamer built-in even though having a TS or other OD of choice is a good idea. Well i did not like the Ibanez one at all FWIW. Tiny Terrors are rather good but i went for the Blackstar instead/better range of sounds and sound superior to my ears at lower volumes). The Dual Terror also good but not 'me'...Then there is the Marshall Haze 15 (again head only as the combo version meh) - that one is cool/good sounding with an OD infront of it and Doug Aldritch/Whitesnake approved Traynor Dark Horse looks v.nice, have not tried any of the blackheart amps myself so can not comment. Bass amp wise have you seen the Little Bastard by Ashdown? and the Mini SVT classic by Ampeg? I dig them as good candidates for clean sounds plus taking high-gain distortion pedals well. Also the MarkBass amps are also whilst rather more expensive than the Ampeg/Ashdown again great for clean sounds and distortion boxes. I use an all-valve Marshall DSL50 with 4x12 (infront of it is a Boss NS-2 and a Digitech CM-2 & Fulltone Fulldrive II) along with an Ampeg BR-1e Solid-State Bass Amp head, Marshall 1936 2x12" and a Wienbrock Custom compact 1x15" cab which is driven hard by a Line-6 Uber Metal Distortion so it gives me all the valve greatness i need plus an extremely solid low-end, very punchy and good higher-mids that carve through. I mix the relative volume of each to get the balance of all-valve high-gain and FET/Solid-State immediate high-gain clout. That is my big rig though and at home i mainly use the blackstar with the 2x12" and 1x15" or Roland Cube...etc. for practice. I thought i would mention this since with a baritone scale length (my cases the monster gauge strings/maybe you also i am not sure what your gauge of choice is, plus the active buckers) the bass amps i find great. Obviously if you have already tried it out then ignore Also it is handy since i can also record and play what bass guitars i have

as susiwong says always YMMV, all the best

Dean

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Hink - Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:22 pm

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yeah Dean, on the first page I mentioned the baby blackstar...on my list to check out, guitar parts depot sells them at a good price (in fact the day after black friday was blackstar saturday there)

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hibidy - Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:39 pm

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thread makes we want to play guitar

I can't have an amp. I will not put myself in a position of having the neighbors mad at me. If I was a riffing/soling madman then I'd brave it.....but I'm not so I'll pass

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jkleban - Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:47 pm

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Hink.. you can find a vintage CHAMP on EBAY usually between $400 - $800 depending on age and condition. I think they are like 6 watts but man, do they sound great with the original 8 inch JENSEN speaker.

Now, I am talking about the silver face CHAMPS not the fifties TWEED baby. The silver/black face amps were made from the early 60s to the late 70s (I think they stopped making them in the late 70s but could have continued them into the early 80s).

The models from around 69 to 76 had the best sound from some reason but like everything else, each one sounds a little bit different.

Three knobs... VOLUME, BASS and TREBLE... that's it but man, talk about sweet and you won't bother your neighbors at all.

Jim

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Hink - Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:50 pm

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I thought you had a house? Surely there's a place to mic a micro-tube amp, add a small weber attenuater and your neigbors will never know...options, never had so many, never gonna stop exploiting them

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Hink - Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:56 pm

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I don't know about the neighbors, I was forced to sell it but I had a fender blues jr (sunbust finish, cool amp) it was only 15 watts but it was very loud. I wish I had bought an Alamo a few years ago, they seem to be suddenly gaining attention on ebay. They were very good little tube amps, but now they are climbing above 500 bux...I use to see them for 150

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hibidy - Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:11 pm

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I do have a house. But I'm a VERY quiet neighbor and I expect others to be the same So I give no reasons for some dingdong to start invading my earscape

Just played around with AT3 and RP delay.......whammy fun!

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Hink - Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:31 pm

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I assume the houses are close together?

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justin3am - Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:35 pm

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One of my long term projects is to build a nice stereo combo amp based on a Fender pre-amp topology (my co-worker used to design amps for Fender) with a power amp stage that is designed for low output.

I have a prototype for the pre-amp stage (which I'm going to install into a shittier amp some time this month) but I'm having trouble coming up with a design for the cabinet. It seems to me, most speaker cabinets aren't designed specifically for recording and definitely aren't designed with stereo separation in mind.

Any thoughts on this? I figure I may end up with an amp head and two speaker cabs (with a woofer and horn each) instead of a combo cabinet but I'm aiming for something all-in-one.

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hibidy - Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:39 pm

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Just a few feet.

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Hink - Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:44 pm

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exactly what will you be splitting stereo, two of the same signal? What will be the ying/yang so to speak?

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justin3am - Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:57 pm

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Well the pre-amps will be normalled with a buffer, so if you only connect input 1 it feeds input 2 without signal loss. Most of the signal processors I use are stereo though, and I'm just as likely to use the amp with a synth as a guitar.

So the amp will take a mono or stereo signal. Right now I just have a single channel of the preamp. I'd like to make it so you can use it as a traditional switchable two-channel mono amp or as a stereo non-switchable amp. The circuit that allows me to use a single set of controls for both amps in stereo mode, while using independent controls for each amp in mono mode, is kinds tricky though. I may end up using a pic or atmel processor to control everything digitally.

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jkleban - Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:12 pm

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Back in those psychedelic days, I know a guy who wired his each pickup post on his guitar to have separate outputs, then he made a 6 channel amp and placed them in a arch from the floor to about 5 feet over the ground back to the ground on the other side and he would sit in the middle of the speakers and play his guitar for 10 hours a day.

One day, not knowing what the monstrosity was, I asked him and he took about an hour to explain to me what he did, he was very excited. Then I asked him, "but how can anybody else hear how cool this sounds if only the person sitting in the middle of the arch can hear the pickup spread?".

I stumped him and he never played the thing again.

But I did run into him a few years later.... his band was playing in a big theatre and he kept the six channel guitar and spread six fender TWINS across the stage so that other people could finally hear his invention (which was pretty cool).

I forgot all about this story until this thread. THANKS HINK.

Jim

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trimph1 - Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:58 pm

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Older neighbourhood right?

If so then it might be an idea to look into that attenuator...

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Hink - Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:13 pm

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That's over the top I want to put a p-bass pick-up between the humbuckers in my baritone and wire it with a second jack for stereo

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Dean Aka Nekro - Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:14 pm

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I missed that one then J man and then rambled on for ages but you know what i mean (i think!?)

Dean

@hibidy - just get a very low wattage mini, your neighbour's will not hear it unless you crank it right up. The Vox ValveTronix range even though they are not all-valve (digital pre, mini-dummy valve power-amp then amplified by a solid-state power-amp) have a control which allows you to take it down to 1 Watt and crank everything for example - With a mini valve badboy and something akin to Hink's Weber or other power soak you can do the same. It is obvious you are really missing the actual experience an amp gives you and giving in to temptation is your forte I am a fan of the Sequis Motherload Elemental (basically a Motherload and Richter Control and then some in one not very big box and not a silly amount of money either) - http://www.motherload.co.uk/products/motherload-elemental/
Been so close to pulling the trigger on one a few times but something has always come up which prevented me doing so - Not that i changed my mind i must add. Its on 'Teh List Of Finacial Ruin' i have. The list is pure exctasy to look through but torture when it comes to reality/current bank balance dude Something i will require for studio use at 360 (here is a review of part of it versus a PODXT/BassPODXT FWIW:

Full low down here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul05/articles/sequis.htm

and that is the older models of the seperate units instead of everything under one roof of the newer one and then there is this device which i would love to try out:

http://www.two-notes.com/en/Two-Notes-Products/Le-Torpedo-VM-202.html - Although for that kind of money it would have to be bloody breathtakingly amazing

PPS: Hink i do not mean to make your Weber attentuator feel lacking or anything with the above links

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Dean Aka Nekro - Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:28 pm

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Think about PA systems speakers and the way the line array works with angles and that may work mate Or you could build two speaker coffins. Like the AxeTrack or Randall ISO cab but with DIY skill and the total freedom of spec to own preference (which driver, which horn, which mic/mic to have inside...etc.). If you want to go with a more conventional cab than the Isolation thing then it is all about the angles, even looking at the principles of decent monitors could work if applied but just on a larger scale and with slightly less fidelity in mind. I am sure there must be alot of resources if you ask susiwong for forum/site links for this sort of thing (between susiwong and Hink they are like an encylopedia of info/experience and resourse ) They have had a good few years extra on yourself and myself chasing the unholy grail

All the best to you and hope you are having a good festive season with the Mrs and family/loved one's. Same to everyone else of course

Dean and Family

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Hink - Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:30 pm

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you didn't answer my question though and I am someone who always wanted similar, I really wanted a tech 21 trademark 120...afterall my fx are stereo, I have a stereo tube pre-amp and at one point I had my 4x12 wired down to 4 ohms stereo with a 400 watt stereo power amp...you know what I got out of it? A hernia

Perhaps if you could design a cab that sent the signal wider it would be good for live (I could see issues too if it's too wide) but again what is the gain for guitar? For recording it's a snap now and if you want it live go through the board. Yeah a stereo amp is cool and it has a limited place but I found it's like going from the east coast to west coast by heading east. You go a long ways and it aint that big a deal when you get there YMMV of course and I do like an old school stereo guitar rig with a wet side and dry side, but would that sound good too widely spread?

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Dean Aka Nekro - Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:37 pm

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Oh and one extremely important feature not to forget to add - A horn/tweeter bypass/defeat switch or a level control on the cab/cabs btw as distortion through a horn/tweeter is nasty ear bleed material and not in a good way as you will already know (akin to DI'ing a Boss MT-2 MetalZone - Some black metal types might like it...) but just incase you have not added it to your spec list Justin my friend

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Hink - Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:42 pm

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which will optimize it for acoustic guitars or keys in a generally intimate setting

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justin3am - Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:12 pm

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Ha! Most of my electronic projects are more about the journey than the destination anyway. I'd only be using the rig for recording and mostly for stereo chorus/phasing, ping-pong delays, big reverby drones and stereo synth patches. It's just another way of achieving an effect which I normally achieve by mic'ing my monitors. Sure, I could get the same results ITB but I take such pleasure from mic'ing speakers.



Of course! I learned that lesson when I added a horn to my bass amp. It sounded fantastic clean but as soon as I kicked on the overdrive, I got squealing feedback.

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Hink - Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:25 pm

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I use to say on FL forums that there should be a contest for the biggest workaround that accomplished the smallest task

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Dean Aka Nekro - Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:46 am

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Ditto when i used a bass cab and forgot to turn the level of the squealer down! AAARRRRGGGG....Too high Fidility. Luckily it was in the rehersal room only thank feck!

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Hink - Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:10 am

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I'm baffled...I ordered the amp yesterday had two emails saying it would ship soon, one confirmation call from AMS mid afternoon verifying my address...then nothing, no other emails but he last one said if the item is out of stock. Well it said on the web page 'in stock' so I was a little nervous (MF did this to me twice and why I dont shop there). I get up this morning wondering but had to drive my wife to work, naturally I expected the worst and wondered if I would have to call. I check my bank statement and the money had been taken, so why no notice of shipping? I check my email and sure enough there is the shipping notice, ups, good so I go check when I can expected it to be delievered (remember I went with ground shipping to save 30 bux, but hoped it would get before xmas vacation ends because my daughter is home to help watch for the driver incase I have to go out and I do not have to go out as often with her home) What do I see 'out for delivery', it's already making it's way to my door step...not only has it shipped but it's on the delivery truck...overnight service free

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Hink - Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:40 pm

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hibidy - Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:52 pm

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Ahhhhh, there it is!

Now record something already (sheeeeesh, you are not dealing with patient people here )

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Hink - Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:56 pm

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right back at yah

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hibidy - Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:59 pm

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DOH!

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Dean Aka Nekro - Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:49 pm

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Nice turnaround you got there mate and saved money on the same instant dispatch kind of thing

Looking forward to hearing how the EG works for you/your guitars/pickups...etc. General nerdism per-usual.

@hibidy - Isn't that nice and look at how little space it takes up dude

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hibidy - Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:00 pm

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Check out my new amp

http://www.box.net/shared/5szp9g8bfo

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Hink - Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:19 pm

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Hink - Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:50 pm

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this amp really pushes my 4x12 nicely, but I really need to add a 1x12. The weber sounds good with my emu speaker sim so I can only imagine how good it will sound with impulses. The fx loop is okay for jamming using my midiverb4 (wouldn't record it that way though). I haven't moved the 4x12 to the closet yet because I figured it would better to try it with the amp out here. This little amp really has some character to it and volume is not lacking, I dig the bag it came with

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Dean Aka Nekro - Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:28 am

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@ hibdiy - I promise no more 'buy real amp' talk your way (for awhile) Nice one man

@ Hink - good stuff, its like a mini padded gymn bag but better quality. Chuck in a moisture soaking crystal thing (silica) and perfect to travel

Good stuff chap's and all my best to you both. Dean

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Hink - Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:55 am

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Dean, the Marshall 9000 plugged into the fx return sounds great and the 4x12 is in my closet with an sm 57...the best part is the wife likes it. However I wont use the bag much, if I take the amp to jam somewhere sure...but I haven't done that in quite a few years and no place around has a jam night.

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susiwong - Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:45 pm

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In the beginning the universe was created.
This was widely regarded as a bad move.
Douglas Adams
(Scott's brother ?)

sorry, couldn't resist !

Good to hear your Marshall likes the Egnater. Ime it should get along well with the Boogie, too ?

Cheers,
susiwong

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Hink - Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:25 pm

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besides being a good neigbor it really can't do much for the boogie...remember I have the sob, two drives, 1 channel, 4 pre-amp tubes, 4 power tubes and speaker outs only. No fx send or return, no eq, no reverb just the power and tone to knock a fly out of the sky a mile away

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hibidy - Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:30 pm

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So that's why I lost my balance!

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susiwong - Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:56 pm

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Ah, didn't know the SOB doesn't have a loop, all Mesas I owned had one.
Apart from that and the cosmetics it should be rather close to the Mark I afair.
Great amps, very underrated.

Before I forget, happy new ear to all of you !
ear ? was it beer ? bear ? year ? don't remember.
All of the above, to be on the safe side !
Cheers,
susiwong

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Hink - Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:57 pm

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same to...have a great new year

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Dean Aka Nekro - Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:14 am

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Yep have a good one also my friends
May this one be good to you all

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hibidy - Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:49 am

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Please don't stop! I enjoy your knowledge of all these fascinating amp models!

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Uncle E - Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:38 pm

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I passed on one of these for a good price the other day. Kicking myself for it now.


We're looking at producing a Jubilee clone. It's mostly for the ESP crowd, which is our best selling guitar line, but I'm making sure it'll satisfy anyone after a 2203, as well.


What do you think of the blue stripe Mk III?


Funny, mine has been sitting nonfunctional for several years...

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hibidy - Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:02 pm

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One billion years ago, when I was a bassist I used have this friend with a classic 50. It was small but sounded fantastic and could tear the paint off the walls.

But it was in the shop all the time. Luckily he had a soldano preamp and power supply as a backup

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Uncle E - Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:07 pm

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How did you mod your Blue Angel? I'd love to have the reverb footswitch simultaneously change the fat/bright switch and defeat the mid pot, given how much the mid affects the saturation. I'd also like to make the effects switchable to series, just so a master volume can be inserted there.

btw, I changed V1 and V2 to 5751's which tightened up the feel, made the amp less noisy, and provided a more useful range to the volume control. I also changed V5 to a 12AT7 which dropped the overall volume and further tightened up the feel. The amp now reminds me of an 18W Marshall when driven yet it can still sound like a Super Reverb when the bright switch is on and the mids are dropped.

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Uncle E - Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:15 pm

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It's my favorite Egnater so far. It feels far more like a vintage amp than any other Egnater I've ever used (including my own TOL100, which is stiff as a board) and the character switch sounds legit and has a massive impact on the tone. I've got very high hopes for the Tweaker 40:

http://www.premierguitar.com/Video/20101027/1220/LA_Amp_Show_10_Egnater_Amps_Tweaker_40_Demo.aspx

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Uncle E - Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:20 pm

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That describes my THD tweed Champ, I don't find it too inspiring to play on its own but it definitely records well. It has the added bonus of a line out, too.

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Uncle E - Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:26 pm

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The Orange TT, though a one trick pony, is bad ass for anyone looking for a JMP on a budget.


Personally, I thought it sounded cool with the Tube Screamer engaged but thin and lifeless without it.

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Uncle E - Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:31 pm

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The tweed doesn't even have the bass and treble! It could really use it, actually, as it's too dark sounding on its own (although that's part of what makes it so good for recording).

I've also wanted an 80's Super Champ.

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Uncle E - Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:33 pm

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This is probably a horrible idea but maybe you could wire the speakers out of phase?

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Uncle E - Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:44 pm

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Happy New Years, guys! It's been fun closing out the year with all this guitar talk on a software forum!

btw, Dean, do check out a Framus Dragon in 2011. That would be my amp if I still played metal.

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susiwong - Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:54 pm

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Similar thing you did, maybe modding is too big a word.
Found the recipe in a forum.
V1 - 12AX7
V2 - 12AY7
V3 - 12AT7
V4 - 12AX7
V5 - 12AT7
All TAD afair, same as all power tubes.
The icing on the cake was a pair of unbranded NOS 6V6 that sound incredible, unfortunately my Deluxe Reverb needed them even more, what can you do ?
Those were the last, and they weren't cheap.
I'll try 6L6s in the Angel one of these days.
Your description is spot on, btw !
A (buffered ?) LoZ volume pedal in the loop (see below) will work as MV, since you have the blend control.
Remote switching of the boost / mid pot is not trivial due to the extreme level jumps.
I set mine for chimey clean and use a good OD or two in front.

The beauty of the Classic 50 (212 here) is its "interactivity", I played countless gigs with only a 25k volume pedal and a delay, both in the loop, and an EC style active Strat - guitar controls tone and drive, pedal controls volume - everything at your fingertips, sounds like a million $.
With a passive guitar a Klon or Horny, , Honey Bee work similar, you gotta get used to not running the guitar full open though - like in the old days.
This setup is remarkably versatile in terms of stage volume, too - anything between a bar with 20 people and a smaller open air stage works great.
For really big stages adding a 1960 always did the trick.
All that for modern country / country rock, so I often needed really clean tones.

Interesting about that Marshall clone, Jubilees are nice, but importing to Europe might prove difficult due to voltages.
I'll keep an eye open for a late 70s 2203, they're still affordable if you can wait a bit - would make a nice companion to my beloved '76 50W Lead.


All the best for 2011, btw - as usual, you're late !
Cheers,
susiwong

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Uncle E - Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:32 pm

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Cool, I'll try out that 12AY7! Try swapping a 12AX7 back in V3, I personally found a 12AT7 there to kill the feel (although this may affect you less since you've got that 12AX7 in V1).


I tried JJ 6V6S's in hopes of getting a more 6L6 type of sound but didn't find them to sound much different from the stock Mesa Boogie tubes. Do you know of any other low voltage tube that might fit there? Something like this might be good info for Hink, too, since the Rebel felt to me like it's biased cold. Come to think of it, a lot of my complaints about Egnater amps could possibly be solved with hotter biasing.


You've probably seen these already:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-52593.html

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/amp-central-station/121992-replacing-6v6-6l6-5881-mesa-blue-angel.html

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1604

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-281933.html


Even though switchable voltage isn't a problem, you definitely shouldn't wait on me. I was just sharing because it's something fun I'm working on, it'll probably be 2012 before we get these into regular production.

A belated happy new year to you! It's better for me to get it out now, anyway, given I'll be too trunk to dweet 8 hours from now.

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dubbelQ - Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:53 pm

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Doesn't count. Its not a amp.

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hibidy - Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:12 pm

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Hanglow - Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:04 pm

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think I've found my new years resolution then - to test drive the Tweaker

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Hink - Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:21 pm

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The rebel 20 is very good, the tweaker has a gain boost and such plus only el84s I believe (correct me if I'm wrong Eric)..the rebel gives you a choice between el84's and 6v6 power tubes (a blend control which is cool). The Rebel has an fx loop so I also have a Marshall 9000 pre-amp (all tube) that I can run direct into the power amp in the egnater...this is the first time in 15 years I have been completely satisfied with the Marshall tone from the 9000. Previously I did well with it if I Used the clean or crunch channel but the lead was overkill...now the lead is like a hot-rodded Marshall and still the other two channels are even better. Either susiwong or Dean mentioned the clean and crunch channels on the marshall are very 800ish.

@Eric, really? A tweaker 40 is coming out? Frankly I dont see it, with tube amps unless you're playing big shows more than 25 watts is too much imo. My boogie sob is the second sob I have owned (60/100 watt head). On the half power I never turned either to ten and frankly that's because I was afraid. Once we use to jam in a cabin that was roughly 12x15 feet, once I stepped outside (so didn't everyone else) and had it to 8 and I thought the cabin was going to explode, through the crack in the door my cable provided enough air was coming out so strong it was blowing my hair.

I'll never buy above 30 watts for tube amps again I dont think, in fact you and me need to talk about a 1x12 as we did in a pm. I like the idea of the jet city, I have my 4x12 in my closet mic'd but tbh I disconnected three of the speakers because even though my neighbor doesn't hear it I still worry...it sounds the balls. I have only tried it with an sm 57, I'll try my cousin's condenser (that you sell) next week.

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Hink - Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:25 pm

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susi, that Marshall would do great with the old cali hotrod

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Uncle E - Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:45 pm

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6V6's which is a little cooler since someone could install EL84's (via Yellowjackets). There's no way to mix them, though, like with your Rebel.


40 watts is necessary for clean tones. For example, when playing clean, I have to set the Blue Angel to 38 watts as it won't project over a drummer at its 15 watts setting. Also, the Tweaker 40 can probably be biased down to work with 6V6's, which should drop it down to around 22 watts, or have Yellowjackets installed to drop it down to around 15 watts. Anyway, the best part about the Tweaker 40 is channel switching!

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Hink - Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:10 pm

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that sounds cool, however it's doubtful I'll ever play live again (not as out of the picture as it was though due to an interesting development in the last two days). The truth is the rebel without the weber is too loud in here at about 7 o'clock on the master and on 1 watt. Anyhow, if needed the Boogie will do clean pretty well if going through the second channel (no channel switching, channel one is two drives cascaded and channel two is a separate input and only the second drive).

Does the tweaker 40 have a loop?

Also are you guys carrying the jet city deadbox cab?

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susiwong - Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:46 pm

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not in a million years !

Paid my tech well to un-mod it back to original specs as soon as I got it.
Including a complete service, caps and stuff.
It had been "improved" by a certain Mr.Diezel back in the 80s - wired the inputs in series and similar nonsense - sounded like a bandpassed fart, admittely with immense sustain, which may or may not be a good thing, depending on aroma and the company you're in.
Now you plug in a good Les Paul, turn it up a little above half and all the Free, Cream or vintage Gibbons are right there, no guesswork necessary.
Add a Klon and roll down the guitar some - instant Haynes or Grissom.
I'm using a 412 with low-efficiency Celestions, it's loud but not unreasonably so.
At least I never heard the neighbours complain when I play.

Cheers,
susiwong

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hibidy - Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:49 pm

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Wow, just the sound I'm looking for!

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susiwong - Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:00 am

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Eric,
thanks for the links !
Seen some before, not all.
Instant pdf.
Check out this one :
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=286298
and here :
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=316863
That's what I based my tube experiments on.
John Philips, ex guitar player for the Mamas and Papas, knows a thing or two about amps and is a big Blue Angel fan.
My tech said go ahead, so ...

No guarantees, but it sure works for me.
Ymmv,
susiwong

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susiwong - Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:09 am

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sssshhh ...
Don't tell anybody, but this sound dates back to happier days, before Diezel-molested Marshalls came upon mankind.
Many roads lead to Rome, even unplugged ones ...

To be fair, I'm not bashing Diezel's current work, but this one probably was an early experiment.

Cheers,
susiwong

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Hink - Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:51 am

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susiwong - Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:59 am

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Not familiar with these clerical uniforms, which one's the Reverend ?
They both look vintage ...
Lol,
susiwong

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Uncle E - Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:14 am

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Dunno, we'll have to see. btw, if anyone ever needs a direct out, a Behringer DI100 or GI100 between the amp and speaker does the job fine (I know that's not your concern, someone else mentioned that.


We have one on order but I don't know when it'll get delivered.

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Dean Aka Nekro - Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:40 pm

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Or Mike Fortin

Greeting Eric man, good to hear from you, Hope you had a good christmas and new year mate

Dean

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Dean Aka Nekro - Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:55 pm

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I am already a fan Eric but i just do not think the price is not that good a deal (i maybe wrong though), if i notice one going second-hand/used then i would seriously consider it then. Thanks for the heads up. Even the first version of the ruby red was a gain machine and for a class A job i ain't ever heard an amp with higher gain than that but IIRC many people did not dig that so Framus revised it to a more polite but great amp. I am also a fan of their cabs as they allow you to open/swiftly remove a panel or two on the back to loosen them or have full-on closed back tightness. Again the Cabs are just a little step for me but second hand yep.

I really like the Tweaker also and its versatile sounds via the mini-toggles and if i was going for an Egnator then i would go for the 20 watt Tweaker i think. Not tried any of the bigger tourmaster models *yet* but have eyed them up in store. I could use a day to sit in my local all day and try as many of the different amps they have in, just a matter of finding the right day to do it!

Cheers

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Uncle E - Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:13 pm

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The new prices are steep but used they sell for less than Rectifiers here in the States. Framus just hasn't caught on here. Personally, I've got an early rackmount, hand-wired Dual Rectifier, which is considered by some to be the very best Rectifier ever built, and I'd take a Framus over that any day.


The Cobra cab is so sick looking. I've always wondered if that metal grill is part of smooth sound I got from the amp.


The TOL100 has tight, percussive high gain tones. The problem is that tightness is what makes me dislike the clean and crunch channels so much.

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Uncle E - Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:25 pm

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btw, here's an amp I'm seriously considering:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120666281898&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156

If it were the 1x12 version, I'd pick it up in heartbeat, but I'm concerned that this 2x10 will be unwieldy, especially considering that the main reason for me looking for a new amp is to get a portable alternative to my 4x10 Blue Angel.

The ones that got away:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=220713191658&si=s11e%252BkbkP9kkHL0Sn1D%252Fs1Ammik%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEDWX:IT#ht_500wt_1156

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=350424601362&si=s11e%252BkbkP9kkHL0Sn1D%252Fs1Ammik%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_1223wt_905

I was the runner up bidder on that Maz 38 and somebody clicked buy-it-now on that Black Pearl at the exact moment I was making up mind about it.

Also, here's something I'm regretting picking up:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=110621513418&si=s11e%252BkbkP9kkHL0Sn1D%252Fs1Ammik%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_500wt_1156

The high gain tones are surprisingly good, much better than even the Line 6 Alchemy series, but the clean tones don't have much feel to them.

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hibidy - Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:37 pm

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I never hear anyone talk of Genz benz. I had a KILLER 2x10 bass cab I lugged when I was in phoenix. Sounded bigger than a 4x10 but wasn't as big (fit in my little toyota truck front seat)

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someone called simon - Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:52 pm

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I got me a Swart AST pretty much exactly a year ago. My first ever really good amp and boutiquey bit of gear. I love it more than life itself, almost.... And it's probably gonna have to do me till the end as well....

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susiwong - Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:50 am

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Hink,
I told you that thread would cost me !
You owe me 400 Euros ...

Top condition, all new TAD tubes, 1 EQ button missing, unfortunately no footswitch (but 8 1/4" switch jacks, so it's an open system anyway )
This will go in a rack with my Studio Pre and JMP-1, a few Behringer / Rocktron denoisers, Waves DI and a patchbay, so I can record all kinds of combinations and/or plug into a G-Major, Mesa 50/50 and 412.
I'll post pics and a closer description when it's done, a simpler version already works fine.
Cheers,
susiwong

Btw, the Quad essentially combines the preamp sections of the Mk IIc+ (top) and the early Mk III (bottom) with an incredible two-stage spring reverb, the Studio again is a bit diferent. So no overlaps here, both have really good recording outs, too.

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