KVR :: Instruments » Free VSTi Sampler : TX16Wx 0.9beta *update 11* [View Original Topic]
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elcallio - Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:20 am

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Hello there.

This is a sampler instrument I've been tinkering with for 2+ years, with pauses for up to a year. Now its finally beta-ready I think. It's a multitimbral sampler with multiple outs, graphical keymapping edit, sampling and sampler editor.
I created it for several reasons:

• I don't really like the huge disk-streaming sample library players. I wanted something that felt like my favourite hardware sampler - the Yamaha TX16W with NuEdge Typhoon.
  
• I wanted something with an open file format that would not lock me and project made with it in forever. Seems all instruments, free or otherwise, use closed, undocumented disk formats. Well, not anymore.
  
• Its fun!
  

So, here it is: TX16Wx Software Sampler v0.9b

Main view:

Sample editor:

Keyboard mapping:


Features:

• Unlimited multi-timbral operation
  
• 128 voice polyphony
  
• 16 modulation slots per voice
  
• 24dB resonant filter
  
• Two LFO + Two modulation envelopes per voice
  
• Polyphonic glide
  
• Built-in sample editor
  
• Actually samples! Record straight into the sampler.
  
• Graphical keyboard mapping editor
  
• 4 Stereo + 8 Mono outputs
  
• 16 mappable controllers for automation
  
• Multiple loop definitions per wave
  
• Individual outs for keyboard groups (drums)
  
• Multiple keyboard scales
  
• Multiple trigger modes
  
• Mono/Poly/Legato operation
  
• Preview loaded programs and samples in your song before loading
  
• WAV/AIFF/AIFC/SoundFont 2 support
  
• Reads Typhoon compressed AIF files
  
• 100% documented XML-based sound file format. Anyone can write conversion tools.
  
• Low CPU usage
  
• Fully native, optimized for SSE2.
  
• 64-bit support
  

Again, this is beta software. I take no responsability for damage or disappointment you might suffer should you try to use it. That being said, I really hope some people find this useful. Feedback is most appreciated.

You can download the plugin from http://tx16wx.blogspot.com/. The download package has a PDF user manual attached.

Please let me know what you think, and any bugs or suggestions you might have.


Update 2011-08-25
v0.9.01

• Added drag & drop support for waves, programs and performances
  
• Fixed graphics bug when editing group name in group list editor
  
• Keyboard mapping editor can now edit select parameters for multiple groups at a time
  
• Fixed tempo-synced LFO position offset
  
• Added global settings + dialogs for import of already loaded items
  
  

Update 2011-08-29
v0.9.02

• Added indicators to groups in keymap editor on noteon trigger
  
• Added quick select mode. When holding any mode selector key depressed and playing Midi notes, the matching groups and splits will be selected in a rotating fashion
  
• Reworked sample auto-layout to give better results
  
• Fixed "wave start" group attribute not saved correctly in programs
  
  

Update 2011-09-05
v0.9.03

• Added loop start & end modulation
  
• Added glide modulation
  
• Made mono mode handle held notes correctly
  
• Fixed broken XSD definitions for polyphonic modes
  
• Fixed wave start modulation units
  
• Fixed "goto" in sample editor
  
• Fixed sample editor update on drag&drop of samples
  
• Tweaked resonance of filter to be a little less loud&aggressive.
  
• Reduced automatable program slots to 32
  
• Added 48 assignable automation parameters
  

Update 2011-09-08
v0.9.04

• Added quickstart guide
  
• Fixed group separate messing up splits
  
• Fixed file selector graphics messed up on WinXP
  
• Fixed missing waves breaking load of host plugin data
  
• Fixed newly sampled waves not saved in host plugin data
  
• Fixed crash on wave preview in split
  
• Fixed wave load play looping
  
• Fixed frozen modulation of volume, pan and pitch cancelled by non-frozen
  
• Oneshot voices now always retrigger, even in Mono mode
  
• Fixed crash when saving empty wave
  
• Fixed race+crash with all notes off
  

Update 2011-09-09(!)
v0.9.05

• Fixed outputs not detected correctly in FL Studio and others
  
• Fixed graphics glitch in key mapping editor
  
• Added support for sustenuto (sustain) and damper (hold) pedal
  

Update 2011-09-13
v0.9.06

• Improved robustness for loading WAV/AIFF/Soundfonts/FXB
  
• Added drag&drop of banks
  
• Improvements and fixes to soundfont import
  
• Fixed failure to load FXB/programs with splits without assigned waves
  
• Fixed crash when loading WAV with trailing junk data
  
• Fixed AEG:level1 and glide parameter not loaded/saved correctly
  
• Fixed XSD typos
  
• Fixed AIFF files loaded as "unknown"
  
• Fixed not detecting need to rename+resave waves
  
• Fixed Soundfont drag&drop not working correctly
  
• Fixed UI refresh when deleting last program
  

Update 2011-10-02
v0.9.07

• Added "slice" functionality
  
• Added auto slicing via "beat detector"
  
• Added auto slicing via "equal parts" split
  
• Added auto layout of slices + midi file export
  
• Added loop crossfading
  
• Added tempo detection + loading of Acid information
  
• Added support for loading Yamaha TX16W OS waves
  
• Added support for saving sound data in host project directory (when supported by host)
  
• Added sampling start on host transport start (sample on play)
  
• Fixed ui refresh on XP
  

Update 2011-10-23
v0.9.08

• Names of performances/programs are now tied to file names, i.e saving item as new file will modify the name.
  
• Added choke groups. Also removed "Mono/P" and "Legato/P" since these can easily be implemented through choke groups.
  
• Loop start/end modulation is now per sample (was fixed on note-on)
  
• Added support for ReaPeaks wave cache files to speed up drawing large waves.
  
• Load / Drag and drop of performances and programs now accept more than one file.
  
• External controllers with offset now auto-scales to keep full parameter range (i.e setting offset 63 effectively maps controller to <-1 - 1> range).
  
• Made VU meters more accurate
  
• Added support for bipolar automation parameters.
  
• Fixed bug in group "separate" operation
  
• Fixed layout of large number of slices
  
• Fixed bugs in file loading path resolve
  
• Fixed various memory leaks
  
• Fixed various races in delete operations
  
• Fixed race in program preview
  
• Fixed oneshot AEG bug
  
• Fixed missing group name escape in txprog
  
• Fixed XSD typos
  
• Fixed numeric performance/program selector response
  

Update 2011-11-01
v0.9.09

• Added Loop Direction modulation
  
• Added LFO trigger control (can now choose to retrigger or operate in continuous mode)
  
• Added limited switchable font & color for main view parameters
  
• Improved sound item modification tracking
  
• Fixed assigning individual outputs to groups
  
• Fixed AEG Attack/Time modulation, was barely noticable
  
• Fixed draw error in wave editor on XP
  

Updater 2011-11-05
v0.9.10

• Fixed broken sample view drawing + made more accurate
  
• Fixed normalization rounding issue
  
• Fixed wav save data truncation
  
• Fixed crash when preview playing in sample editor while playing keyboard
  

Updater 2011-11-07
v0.9.11

• Fixed velocity/key range as modulation source
  
• Fixed bugs with inverse velocity sensitivity - did not load, nor sound correct.
  
• Fixed reapeaks creation bug causing mipmaps becoming overlapped
  

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Axis1~SL61 - Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:42 am

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Looks promising -- I just downloaded it right now and will try it later as soon as possible. Thanks and welcome to kvr.

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marce - Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:42 am

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It looks very interesting!




So, it is supposed to load all in ram? how you will deal with large files/samples? or it is intended for little instruments?

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bpblog - Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:43 am

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looks interesting! here's a clickable link:

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No_Use - Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:51 am

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This feature alone (which I miss from many other 'samplers') will make me check this one out.

Thanks a lot for sharing your work.

Any info on what will be your further plans with it ?

Do you continue development (bugfixes etc.) or do you provide it as is ?
Will it stay free or will it be payware at some point ?

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elcallio - Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:08 am

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marce: Well, yes, it keeps stuff in ram, so it is limited to "small" soundsets, i.e a few Gigabytes. Again, its a sampler, not a library player. I thought of adding streaming etc while I built it, but it is a feature I've never used, so I find it hard to motivate me.

No_Use: I will fix any bugs that are found, and I will also keep adding features. One top feature is actually improve the SF2 import. Its kind of rudimentary. Also, in the future I'm seriously thinking of redoing the whole UI to a more "software" style, maybe using QT or similar. The current UI is built with VSTUI, which apart from quite a few bugs, also restricts what you can do quite a bit.

I have no plans on making this payware. If, by popular demand or acts of god or whatever, this would happen anyway, I would make the current (as in latest before that) version Open Source so as to not burn anyone using it.

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Northwood Mediaworks - Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:10 am

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Looks cool, a quick start guide would be nice, I've just skimmed the manual, it will take some considerable reading to get a sound up and running.

Thanks for sharing this.

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marce - Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:13 am

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Im playing with it. I like it. The soundfont import is a little "primitive", i mean, soundfonts will not play like they are intended. Is more a start point for a sample you have, but then you need to re-program the release times, and that.

In the keymap editor i miss some kind of indicator ala shortcircuit or kontakt, that show you what layer are you playing in your keyboard.

Also i miss some polyphony selector, specially for monophonic instruments.

The assignment of parameters "mod" is very usefull.

There are some quirks proper from a beta, like the text editing of the right panel out of place when you double click to edit it.

Im not sure how to edit the wave files still.

About the sample feature: Can it only record a wave file and then you map it, or can it record several wave files and assign them to layers according to their volume?



It looks like a nice sampler!

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thecontrolcentre - Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:17 am

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Looks interesting, and great that it actually samples ... is there any way to download it without having to open a Google account?

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marce - Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:24 am

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Your first bug report

Testing it with Cantabile Lite: If you clear a bank while it is sounding (you have pressed keys in your keyboard) it will crash.

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elcallio - Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:25 am

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Yes. On my todo list to actually map all SF2 generators as close as possible. I think that's top prio for .9.01.


Yes, not sure how it should look though. Perhaps just a 'blip' in the group list.



All groups can be set to either poly, mono or legato mode. Or is this not what you mean?


Oooh, that's new. Here it looks fine (not surprising). Could you do a screenshot? Don't know what would cause that bug...


Check the manual for some description of wave editing. Suggestions on improvement to that is good as well.



Right now, it samples one wave, and that is it. It cannot even auto-layout waves that are already loaded. And the reason for that is simply that there are no Combo-boxes in VSTGUI.
I'm gonna have to roll my own proper box...


Thank you!

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Northwood Mediaworks - Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:34 am

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I used http://tx16wx.blogspot.com/ and no need to login!

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phreaque - Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:35 am

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Wow classy vintage looking GUI.. Good job indeed.

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marce - Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:49 am

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Hi! Thanks your answers.

About Poly, i found it like you said. But, if i correctly understand, you cant set the poly for a multiple selection? I mean, how can you quickly select all the groups and set them to Mono, by example?

About the layer indicator, here is how shortcircuit and kontakt manage it:





And here is the quirk with the text:

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thecontrolcentre - Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:00 am

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When I click on the download link I'm asked to login to Google Docs.

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sinkmusic - Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:03 am

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Same here.
Anyway, it seems a very powerful and interesting instrument, thank you for creating and sharing it, Elcallio

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elcallio - Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:07 am

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You are right. Those menus are not working for multiple selections. I will fix.




Ah. Found it. Fixed it. Will be in next bugfix release (soon).

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elcallio - Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:11 am

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Weird. It should be accesible without any google logins. I should perhaps add another download host. Any suggestions?

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jobromedia - Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:23 am

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It is a nice sampler! But I must warn you that Yamaha owns the patent for TX16W, so you owe it to yourself to really work out a new and more original name for your sampler than TX16Wx, unless you don't want to get a C&D letter from Yamaha demanding you to remove this plugin. I'd really hate this plugin being removed. And you also might want to adjust the color of the display area since it is really the same colors the Yamaha TX16W has. Apart from these copycats I'm really looking forward to test your sampler!

Instead of putting the link in google docs you might as well want to put it on mediafire since they have no problems whatsoever with download links. I was able to download it within 10 times longer than it would've taken me on mediafire. Just so you know.

As for the sampler it seams to be a really nice sampler, but it deserves drag&drop support for banks and samples. I might consider using this sampler over Direct Wave since I haven't been able to record with DW for the last 3 years.

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thecontrolcentre - Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:29 am

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You can use box.net free for filesizes up to 25MB.

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mrdr - Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:36 am

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very promising:)
drag & drop samples from DAWs browser would be nice

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jobromedia - Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:47 am

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Oh and one other thing... Plugins with pictures of stationary knobs makes me most likely instantly throw away such plugins for plugins with working knobs.

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bpblog - Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:51 am

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dropbox is a great free host!

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elcallio - Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:54 am

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I am acutely aware and somewhat worried about the name issue. However, the original TX16W has been out of production for more than 20 years, and I would dare to hope that Yamaha would take an homage for what it is. I don't think LED colour can be really copyrighted though. I have at least four other harware items with same LED display colour + a few with additional red buttons.


Good advice. I've added mediafire links.



Again, mainly a limitation of the version of VSTGUI I've used. I would be interested in how people would like drap&drop to work.

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elcallio - Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:55 am

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??? Stationary knobs? Working knobs? What knobs are not working for you?

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jobromedia - Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:37 am

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Well... All of 'em. At least they doesn't give any visual feedback.

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elcallio - Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:41 am

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You need to select one or more groups before the sound edit knobs (or most anything) becomes active. Otherwise there is nothing to display or edit.

• Create a performance
  
• Create a program
  
• Add one or more waves into groups
  
• Select one or more groups in grouplist (right) or keymapper.
  
• Now tweak away with the sound controls.
  

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Grenoybel - Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:46 am

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Hi,

Just saying Thank you for this.

I hope you'll get positive feedback and encouragement to continue to improve this beauty.

(I will wait for the time of feature requests lol)

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PietW. - Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:59 am

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Hi, take a look here.

http://www.ewetel.net/~carsten.ender/images/tx16wbig.jpg




but a great plugin. I really like.

ups. to late

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elcallio - Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:03 am

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I actually have the real hardware in my basement. I even considered making the UI an exact copy from photos of my own unit (complete with scratches and dents). But I wanted a graphical UI.
Still, my first and best HW sampler.

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sinkmusic - Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:42 am

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+1 !
Some rex/slicing features could be great, too

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Jonathan Shepherd - Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:18 am

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Thanks very much man! Good to see another sampler enter the field...Short Circuit is awesome, as are others, but new ones don't come along too often. Will test tonight, good day-----

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Grenoybel - Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:29 pm

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Loop Start and Loop end Modulation would be heaven

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CoolColJ - Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:33 pm

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Nice, will check it out
I'm always looking for a soft sampler that can compete for hardrware ones for filtering quality and character

What sort of pitch shift quality does it have?

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dalor - Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:51 pm

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Looks very promising! Love the open format, kudos for that!
Questions: Is it Synthedit (causes trouble on my system)? Plans for x64?

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Z3R0T0N1N - Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:50 pm

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Wicked! The TX16W was our workhorse back in the Atari days
this has some amzing stuff... wow, it's a real sampler!!

Thanks for this, I look forward to trying it out!
g

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hcv242 - Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:20 am

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this is SO cool...loving it. thanks a lot for this. it might become my main sampler

lots of crashes and annoyances, though.

some issues that i can remember from last night testing:

if i play a note, hold it and then change the filter cutoff the changes are only heard when i play the next note. (maybe a feature ...maybe a bug ?)

if i double click a knob value to enter it with the keyboard, things dont work as expected. i insert 1 ms and it shows 0. if i insert 2 ms it show 0 again. if i insert 3ms it will show the value correctly.

the lfos are working in a strange way. the POS knob should change the start phase of the lfo when in tempo sync mode but it has absolutely no effect. when i press play on my sequencer the modulation always starts in the same lfo position\phase even though i change the POS value. or maybe am i not understanding the way it should work !?

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kev2525 - Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:59 am

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I second this motion! And third and fourth it.

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elcallio - Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:19 am

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Just an update for the interested parties. I've taken the suggestions and bug reports to heart, and an update is forthcoming. First iteration will bring drag&drop of files + fixes for some (most?) of the reported bugs. After this I'll look into loop point modulation and group indicators for incoming notes.

Thanks for the feedback people. Keep it coming.

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YaKa93 - Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:19 am

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Good work !! Thanks a lot for share it !!

just some wichs...
- add many mod destinations (drive for exemple)
- the ability to change a bit-depth and sample-rate
- LFO rate can be dotted
- a quick start guide
- Group sound controls more clear

for the bugs...
In Keyboard Mapping, when I change Program (in top-left), the sound controls knobs is not active, normal because no group are select. Then when I click on the group, the sound controls knobs go to good value except the first row (volume, attack, decay1... and LFO1 too). The "display value" is good but led not ?? If I click on knob, the led go to same value as "display value" (perfect).

I hope I was clear because I speak a bad english

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Kenmac - Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:23 am

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I haven't really gotten around to using this yet but I was reading through the PDF and I was just wondering if there's support for velocity layered samples? I've got a drumkit that was recorded with seven different velocity layers on the kick, snare, toms, etc. and I'd like to try importing it. Is velocity layering already present or is this something that'll be added later? BTW thanks for this and I'm looking forward to trying it out when I have the time.

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synthmagic - Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:17 pm

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Is the real machine a good sampler?
I have seen them on ebay a few times and have often wondered if it would be good to pick one up-I love old grainy sounding samplers.
This software looks really good.

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thecontrolcentre - Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:26 pm

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If you can live with 12 bit sound and only 1.5mb of RAM ... then go for it.
http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/tx16w.php

You'd be better off looking for a Yamaha A5000/A4000 imho. They go for next to nothing on ebay. I have an A3000 which is also great except for the dodgy rotary's.

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synthmagic - Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:29 pm

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Thanks,
I love old 12 bit samplers and 8 bit ones too-I have even got an old korg dss1 which is more like an analogue synth than a sampler,but it does sample and sounds great.
I may scope an old Yamaha out and have a play.
Cheers,
Steve.

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VSTJuNkiE - Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:16 pm

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Great. Keep plugging away at it!

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jens - Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:05 pm

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That's a hilarious suggestion.

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Full Bucket - Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:14 pm

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elcallio, you did a fantastic job!

Congrats & cheers
Björn

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elcallio - Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:14 pm

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New version up. Check first page for what's changed.
Next will be:

1. Quickstart guide / tutorial
   
2. Playing group indicators
   
3. More modulation dests.
   

Cheers.

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synthmagic - Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:21 pm

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+1

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Grenoybel - Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:16 am

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Thank you for the update

I drool for that modulation dests

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elcallio - Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:20 am

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This is now added in the 0.9.02 version.

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marce - Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:47 am

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Great! Thanks!

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FrettedSynth - Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:51 am

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Wow nice!
Thank you for continuing to work on this sampler.

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audiojunkie - Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:19 am

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+1

--Sean

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sinkmusic - Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:36 pm

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On feature i would use a lot would be the ability to drag and drop a batch of audio files on the GUI, and each sample would be loaded into a single key : it would allow for very quick drumkit creation
We could call it : "auto drumkit keymapping"

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larsalt - Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:02 pm

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Love it so far. Thanks for making this!

Quick question: How do you rename a performance, program etc? I can rename a group but when I try to click on a program, it's just giving me a drop down to select another program.

Thanks!

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V'ger - Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:12 pm

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Thx for this. A bit unintuitive as it is now, but you mentioned revising the GUI at some point so looking forward to that. Also hope for an integrated browser with search and autoplay features which are so useful.

I know there's a clever autoplay feature in the window dialogs, but unfortunately that kills the dialog app i'm using and turns everything gray and unusable which can't be set to make exception to the vst, only apps and that's the daw alas.

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Z3R0T0N1N - Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:09 pm

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Well, it did well for me, but it didn't really have much in the way of filters without the replacement OS, Typhoon2000. Editing was a terrible chore, too.
But, I have to say that the sounds we got out of it were really superb - after a lot of work of course - and that was with the original OS, so if 12bit is your thing, it is a solid machine. We still have and use a boatload of samples originally made with it.

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Z3R0T0N1N - Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:15 pm

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funny thing, nostalgia... I keep wincing at the idea of things like loop-point modulation, and all these cool modern features I had to laugh at myself when the suggestion of making the GUI "more intuitive" made me feel grumpy! I'm like, "Cripes, here we go! The TX16W wasn't supposed to be easy to freakin' use, dammit, why the hell do you think they went to all the trouble to restrict us to only 16 buttons and a 2 line LCD??? They would have at least given us a function wheel if it was meant to be fun... YOU KIDS GET THE HELL OFF OF MY LAWN!"

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elcallio - Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:55 am

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It is actually already there. If you d&d several files into the keymapper they are laid out accoring to root key. For drumkit creation, simply create an empty group (new group in grouplist), set its key scaling to "fixed" (no pitch shift) and drag the drums onto it. They will be placed on a single key each, in the order you selected them at the drag source.

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elcallio - Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:56 am

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Shift-click the name of the program or performance to edit the name.

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V'ger - Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:53 pm

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pc2000 - Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:49 pm

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I'm using win7 32bit on a laptop and can't get any audio whatsoever from tx16w2. Even the sound browser doesn't produce audio. Other plug-ins like Kontakt and battery 3 work fine. My CPU supports SSE2. I tried this plug-N with Fl studio 10 and Music creator 5 with the same no audio result. Anyone using this in win7 or Vista?

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EvilDragon - Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:44 pm

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Looks cool, however I have some suggestions and noticings in order to make it even more interesting:

* 6-24 dB/oct filters!
* Is 128 poly global for all multimode parts? If so, increase this to 512 or 1024, since you DO have unlimited multitimbral parts!
* More modulators: S&H LFO (perhaps with adjustable slew rate, to get sample-and-glide), envelope follower, step sequencer...
* Bigger UI. It looks too crammed on 1920x1080 over here.
* Automatable synthesis parameters, not only volume and pan of 64 parts. Perhaps introduce a Macro page, which would enable the user to link synthesis parameters from multiple groups to one knob, which would then be MIDI learnable?
* The filter resonance is perhaps a bit TOO brutal, don't you think? I get a lot of master track auto-muting because of too loud signals in Reaper when sweeping the Frequency knob with Resonance only at 0.50 and drive at -1.00! That doesn't look or feel right, or does it (when compared to the original)?
* Ctrl+clicking on modulation amount should reset the amount to the default value.
* Mono mode with key-off retrigger to previously held note. The retrigger should also happen when sustain pedal is pressed (for legato hammer-on pull-off effect).
* Separate pitch bend up and down range.
* I know that you won't like it, but... STREAMING. Yes.

And now noticings:

* Make Lowpass the default filter when creating a new group (currently it's Allpass).
* When I delete a Place, the display is not refreshed.
* The modulation amounts aren't refreshed in realtime (not the display, but sound-wise). It would be better if they were.



Otherwise, a very fine plugin to be!

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shanecgriffo - Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:43 pm

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mm , i cant get it to work either, unless i just click on the window that has the sample waveform view, then it triggers.
A quick start guide is sorely needed i think
edit- oops i see there is a manual mentioned.. off to take a look

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elcallio - Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:03 am

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Some suggestions and comments about parameter automation has got me thinking. The current modulation/automation scheme of TX16Wx is based on Midi controller mappings in the modulation table, and then up to 64 program slots volume and pan automated. There are a number of problems here though.

1. Not all hosts allow for convenient automation tracks for Midi controllers, thus you have to actually add/paint/record real control changes to automate modulation. Which is fine if you fiddle knobs on your controller surface, but not everyone has one.
   
2. There are a lot of automation parameters unused (perhaps ~100) in normal use.
   

So, one post in the reaper forums got me thinking: Perhaps automation parameters should be dynamic, i.e. you add either a program slot attribute or a controller+midichannel to be assigned to automation. This reduces the number of parameters and creates a workaround for those hosts that lack automation curves for midi controllers.

Opinions?

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elcallio - Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:56 am

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I have to ask, what usecases are this actually good for? I tried implementing it, also tested it in other instruments 'for reference', and I'm pretty much just getting crap sound from it, as in it breaks the wave play... I mean, sure I guess if you set the modulation value and scale proper you can do some effects, but is it really worth the extra CPU load? Also, how should the value clamp work? Should it be allowed to modulate loop start to after loop end etc?
Still debating with myself if I'll add this feature...

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KimSteff - Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:56 am

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Hej

I cant load the plugin two or more times i my DAW. i am using Sonar 8.5
sincerely
Kim

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EvilDragon - Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:50 pm

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Kontakt does it in such way that the new sample start point is evaluated only on new note played, not in realtime. So that's one option.

Of course, you wouldn't want the startpoint to go beyond endpoint in ANY case.

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elcallio - Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:46 pm

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That makes more sense I guess, and easier to make "nice". So here is another question: I've made the "Sample Start" modifier in units of time. Does time make sense as a unit for wave start, loop start, loop end modulation? Or should this be a percentage of the wave length? I am somewhat partial towards time myself, since it is a more human unit. However, if you have a split with several samples of different actual length perhaps percentage is better?

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Grenoybel - Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:32 am

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Hello,

I use it mostly for "glitchy" stuff that I try to take some control, don't know if this makes sense.
I enjoy time for sure, but like EvilDragon said the loop start should never go beyond loop end.
By the way what's the difference in cpu in your tests?

To pc2000, I'm using Win7 Ultimate x86 and it worked.

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pc2000 - Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:19 pm

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Thanks 4 the acknowledgement Grenoybel! I guess my system doesn't agree with this plug-N for some reason. The audio browser won't even play audio. The progress bar for the browser just does a quick flash no matter the length of the audio file.

No one asked 4 my opinion, but I'll offer it just the same...I think this sampler is starting to get away from it's original perceived vision. I see request for advanced features associated with commercial samplers which seems to be quite pointless for something that doesn't have streaming abilities. I have Kontakt-3, Battery3, and other samplers. The appeal for me with this, was a quick easy sampler to make some quick sounds with.

I would hate to see this meet the same fate as the short-circuit sampler by trying to add too many needless features for something that's meant as freeware.I saw vemberaudio's reasons for making his freeware. Among the reasons was trying to keep up with updates, bug-fixes and ever changing windows OS updates that may have caused new bugs. Short-circuit-2 was a more ambitious offering which is awfully buggy! IMO, the developer added too many new features that simply made the sampler unstable and time consuming to keep updated. The first version of S.C. is better IMO, and simply needed the inclusion of a sound browser and a few other improvements.


I think adding streaming is among the most relevant features to add. No sense in being limited to small samples or a limited number of programs. A good choice of filters and maybe some simple fx included.

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rifftrax - Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:58 pm

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This does look pretty fricken sweet. I'm going to give it a try... Props for such a cool project.

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EvilDragon - Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:02 am

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Should be time. But I guess you can program it in such way that one or the other could be selected, depending on preferences. When percentage is used, the "100%" would NOT be the whole sample length, but the length from the start point to loop end point. Of course, the maximum modulation amount should be scaled at the loop end point, so that sample start never goes above loop end...

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lalo - Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:51 am

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[quote="EvilDragon"]

hi guys. nice work! congrats to the developer! as a modulation freak i'd like to have the feature do modulate start and end loop points even after the sample is triggered by midi note. this is essential to do all that retriggering strange effects wich i really love. and let the sart point go over the end one is great mostly if by mean of this technique the loop direction just ...reverse. nice effects

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hcv242 - Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:26 am

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im sorry but you are contradicting yourself... if you want to make "some quick sounds with" it, why would you need streaming?....are you planning to make quick multi gigabyte sample libraries with it ?

i really think that streaming has no place in this kind of intrument \ sampler concept. and besides, nowadays computers have at least 4 Gigabytes of ram... you can put a full orchestra in 4 Gigabytes.

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pc2000 - Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:04 pm

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Sorry, I disagree about the streaming aspect being a contradiction or having no place! Even the old free SFZ sampler offers this as an option along with ram play back! SFZ & SF2 has nothing to do with massive sample playback library's. But' if you have really long samples, streaming comes in handy. Not everyone has 4 Gb's of memory or a new multi-core system, so I don't see how that's relevant?

Thinking about it,even Snyth-Edit has streaming wav modules available for it. I recently had a conversation with the guy at Sonic-Assault about his old Sam sampler crashing my computer because it used buggy streaming modules. He informed me that there were new & improved ram & streaming modules available and that he may come out with a newer sampler version. Why would anyone prefer loading gigs of samples in memory?

I'd rather see a solid, stable vst sampler instead of a bunch of specialized modulation features that would likely appeal to a small group of users rather than the masses. IMO, these features are best suited for some sort of a sample mangler device rather than an instrument sampler. The more pointless features U add & stack, the more bugs U introduce.

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elcallio - Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:36 am

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Hello again.

New update available from http://tx16wx.blogspot.com/.
0.9.03, adds some of the modulation people have wished for + lots of fixes and small tweaks. See website or first page of this thread for changelist.

One note: I've scaled back the filter resonance a bit as per some suggestions. I personally think it sounds more musically useful now. Let me know what you think.

Cheers
/C

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pc2000 - Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:30 am

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I mentioned earlier I couldn't get any sound in FL-Studio-10 nor Music creator5.
I did eventually get sound in MC5 after choosing the all mono output option, which took awhile to figure out. I also noticed the text in the upper left corner looked slightly broken.

I decided to try it in Cubase essential-6 which worked fine with no issues. So, my problems seem host related. This got me to thinking about the fact I didn't see any info on what version of vst this is! Is this a vst 2.4 plug-in or vst-3?

This could also be an issue for some having issues if it's vst-3? Would be nice if people listed what host they've been successful in using this in.

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elcallio - Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:41 am

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It's VST 2.4. I tested it in the demo version of FL studio 10 and it seemed to work fine for me (not that I can use FL Studio but...)

Did it fail in FL on the same system as you ran Cubase on? As it says in the readme, there is a dependency on MSXML6, available on XP through SP3.

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pc2000 - Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:52 pm

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Yes, I used it on the same win7 x86 system. I saw your notation about the MSXML6 dependency which stated the plug-N would not load without it. Your plug does load in the Hosts I mentioned, it simply doesn't play audio or seem to receive midi & the audio sample browser doesn't play sound either. Things only work in MC5 if I choose the audio option for all the mono outputs.

It works very well in Cubase. What version of windows are you using? I really like the filters! Changing the range on the resonance made a big difference. A band-reject or peaking filter would be nice additions. Having the filters as seperate standalone fx would be real nice. I would love to use them on other things.

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elcallio - Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:41 am

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New version available for download (again!)
Lots of bug fixes - rapidly reaching usability!
Also added a Quick Start Guide for the most common features. Not complete by any means, but perhaps useful for some.

Cheers

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elcallio - Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:46 am

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Aha. I shall test in FL again and see what I can figure out. I didn't really test to produce any sounds... heh...

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elcallio - Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:55 am

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Ok, found it. Seems I did not report outputs in a manner that FL liked. Fixed. Expect yet another release by tomorrow.

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Crackbaby - Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:23 pm

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Jezez, it's hard to figure out how to work this baby!
I sample something and then ......... ?
In an earlier version i managed to get it to play back the wave .. i think(!)
Im using EnergyXT as host.
Should i assign the sample to a program? I tried but couldnt get it to work.
The is played back when i click on the waveform, so that is working.
I know, RTFM, but these things should be intuitive..


It is VERY easy and smooth to sample though!

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larsalt - Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:05 pm

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Another quick question: How do you get the sustain pedal to work?

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larsalt - Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:09 pm

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The way I did it:

Create a new performance, channel slot and program. With the program selected, create a new group. Now you go to 'Keymap' and right click on the dark zone that shows the name of the group and select a sample (load some first if you have done so already). You can now add more splitts and samples.

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Crackbaby - Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:46 pm

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Thanks!

Maybe author could include some option to automate all that? If you just want to record one sample and have it out over keyboard..

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larsalt - Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:19 pm

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Actually, he kind of has (at least I don't think this used to be in there). When you create a new performance (right click) there's an option "perf+slot+program". You only have to create a group and then select your sample on the keymap screen. takes about 10 secs.

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elcallio - Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:44 pm

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Sustain and hold is not yet supported. It will be in very soon. (Sorry, not a big sustain pedal person, me)

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elcallio - Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:38 am

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v0.9.05 out now. Adds sustain/hold pedal support. Also fixes incompatibility with FL Studio and some other hosts.

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larsalt - Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:55 am

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Thanks for the pedal support! That was quick.

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audiojunkie - Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:57 am

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Really Cool! Thanks!

--Sean

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larsalt - Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:06 am

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So, here's a somewhat severe bug it seems. Many of the programs sound different after I load them back in. There's a slight clicking noise in the attack phase that I can't get rid of.

Here's an example of a very simple program: Just one single wav file. The first part of the clip will play the program when it was just create. The 2nd part in the clip is after I restarted the host and loaded the program back in. You can hear it best at the very end of the clip (at about 16 seconds in).

Here's the clip:
http://www.mediafire.com/?bqe6fp5183u5h91

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elcallio - Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:12 am

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Weird. What host did you do this in? Could you provide the project and files? Also, if you take the freshly created bank (when it sounds right) and save it as a .txbank (with full copy), then clear and reload, does the same thing happen? Did you run with 'save all waves in host project/fbx'?

I would love to reproduce this.

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larsalt - Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:40 am

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I tried it in a couple hosts (energyXT and cantabile) a couple different ways. Saving just the program, saving the bank (from the sampler) and now saving as fxb (including samples). All with the same result. I also went back a couple versions of the software to see if this was around longer (yep).

Here is the FXB file.The program is very basic. I just dropped in the two wav files and adjusted attack/release a bit. Sounded fine, but when I save and load the FXB (after clearing the bank or even completely restarting the plugin), the clicking noise is back.

I did this with a couple different samples as well, so it's not just the wav files that are screwed up. If you actual slow down Attack, the clicking get's a bit worse.



http://www.mediafire.com/?r96ywqbnfsj9idq

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larsalt - Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:58 am

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One more thing: The clicking noise is not on every key. If you move the start for the sample it may fix the clicking for one key, but then another key starts to click.

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elcallio - Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:28 pm

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Sorry, but could you send me the original wave files as well? I would like to compare the actual sounds data from the FXB vs. Wav.

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larsalt - Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:33 pm

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Sure:
http://www.mediafire.com/?1sqgdglfqbyo0x7

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larsalt - Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:07 pm

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I think I got it. AFter loading the file and adjusting Decay and Level 1, the clicking went away.

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