KVR :: Samples, Sampling and Sample Libraries » Kirk Hunter Studios FAQs, Tips and Peer2Peer Info Sharing Thread [View Original Topic]
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kcisANDderit - Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:10 am
I created this thread to be a temporary space where Kirk Hunter Studios Customers can share helpful tips, answer each others questions and exchange helpful resources


Summary of updates/documentation

Update page:
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/update.html

1. Download all patches for the product(s) you own.
2. Apply them in chronological order (older ones first, then newer ones).

Organize your downloads by saving them in separate folders, such as "Diamond Updates" or "CS2 Updates". This will prevent a lot of headaches later.

Online TVEC 3 User Guide here:
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/Concert_Strings_II_Manual_TVEC3/CS_II_Items/tvec2_overview.html
and
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/Concert_Brass_II_Manual_TVEC3/CS_II_Items/tvec2_overview.html

And "TVEC 3 At a Glance" guides here:
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/tvec3_strings.html
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/tvec3_brass.html

pdf versions here:

TVEC 3 Programming (Concert Strings II)

TVEC 3 Programming (Concert Brass II)

TVEC 3 For Strings At-A-Glance

TVEC 3 For Brass (French Horns, Trumpets, Trombones) At-A-Glance
kcisANDderit - Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:18 am
installation procedure

some people have been getting a error msg about missing samples. it turns out that during installation they used the extract to option of the unzip software instead of extract here

here are the installation instructions [with my addition]:
Quote:
1. Create a new folder where you want your new library to reside. Name this folder anything you wish.

2. Download the files (including "bonus files" shown at the bottom of this page) into the new folder you created and then unzip them [using the "extract here" option].


if you use extract to instead of extract here, extra subfolders will be created leading to an error msg when you try to load an instrument
kcisANDderit - Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:43 am
Using Diamond Orchestra with Windows XP

p356 wrote:
I bought Diamond and assumed I could upgrade to Kontakt 5 after the group buy. I currently have 3.5 on XP. Just found out those knuckleheads at NI only support Windows 7! Can't afford Kontakt 5 and new operating system or computer too.

Any solutions besides hari-kari? I'm really hoping there's a workaround for Diamond in 3.5 (not using TVEC3 for now).


EDIT: I downloaded Kontakt 5 Player, and was able to get it working in XP. I was also able to get some Diamond nki instruments working, though I imagine it is only for a limited time in Player. Didn't try the TVEC instruments. Was also able to load a nki in 3.5. So, I'm hoping to still get Kontakt 5 to run with TVEC3.
DarkStar - Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:46 am
^^^
Kontakt 5 does run on Windows XP (reported by EvilDragon) but it would not be supported by NI.
kcisANDderit - Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:48 am
Comparing Concert Strings 2 and Pop/Rock Strings


http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/compare_cs2_prs.html
kcisANDderit - Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:21 am
Concert Strings 2 free trial

KirkHunter wrote:
Ok, below is a link where you can sign up and immediately thereafter download a free trial of the 1st violins (whole, half, quarter and solo divisions) of Concert Strings 2. You need the full version of Kontakt 4 or newer to use it.
Once downloaded unzipped and loaded into Kontakt, it will time out after about 20 minutes. Also, it only includes an octave of the range (middle C and up an octave). Note limit is 500, but once that is exhausted, you can reload the file to play it again. Also, this demo patch MAY run/respond a bit slower since it used a tiny bit more CPU to run than the non-demo patches.

http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/signup_free_cs2_demo2.php
StickyWicket - Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:54 am
kcisANDderit wrote:
my first tip is concerning the installation procedure...

some people have been getting a error msg about missing samples. it turns out that during installation they used the extract to option of the unzip software instead of extract here

here are the installation instructions [with my addition]:
Quote:
1. Create a new folder where you want your new library to reside. Name this folder anything you wish.

2. Download the files (including "bonus files" shown at the bottom of this page) into the new folder you created and then unzip them [using the "extract here" option].


if you use extract to instead of extract here, extra subfolders will be created leading to an error msg when you try to load an instrument


I wish I read this before installing.... Rolling Eyes

I downloaded Diamond into a different folder than where all my Kontakt4 samples are kept, but both are on the same drive. What's the best way to fix this so I can use the "extract here" function so it will see all the samples?

Thanks,
DarkStar - Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:39 am
^^^
The easiest way is (probably) to delete them all then install as kcisANDderit describes.

Or, can you list your current Diamond folders and .nkx and .nc files. It might be possible just to move them around.
DarkStar - Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:46 am
Pop Rock Strings

When you purchase this product, you will be redirected to a DLGuard page with the Installation instructions and listing your Downloads. You will also get a similar email.

Please note that the email lists the main download files but not the TVEC 3 files.

As far as I can see these are only on the DLGuard page. There are 2 [Download] links at the bottom of the page for the TVEC Instruments (177 MB (186,162,956 bytes)) and the TVEC 3.1 Instruments update (4.81 MB (5,047,694 bytes)).

So make sure you download at least those files from the DLGuard page. The other files on that page are not links so it is probably easier to download them from the email.

----------------------
Also your Receipt Number is on the DLGuard page not in the email, so copy and paste it somewhere safe.
kcisANDderit - Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:15 pm
StickyWicket wrote:
Quote:
if you use extract to instead of extract here, extra subfolders will be created leading to an error msg when you try to load an instrument


I wish I read this before installing.... Rolling Eyes

I downloaded Diamond into a different folder than where all my Kontakt4 samples are kept, but both are on the same drive. What's the best way to fix this so I can use the "extract here" function so it will see all the samples?

Thanks,


as DarkStar said, it's easiest to delete and start from scratch. i think it may be more time consuming for you otherwise
kcisANDderit - Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:35 pm
DarkStar wrote:
Pop Rock Strings

When you purchase this product, you will be redirected to a DLGuard page with the Installation instructions and listing your Downloads. You will also get a similar email.

Please note that the email lists the main download files but not the TVEC 3 files.

As far as I can see these are only on the DLGuard page. There are 2 [Download] links at the bottom of the page for the TVEC Instruments (177 MB (186,162,956 bytes)) and the TVEC 3.1 Instruments update (4.81 MB (5,047,694 bytes)).

So make sure you download at least those files from the DLGuard page. The other files on that page are not links so it is probably easier to download them from the email.

----------------------
Also your Receipt Number is on the DLGuard page not in the email, so copy and paste it somewhere safe.


RE: TVEC 3 for PRS, (for future reference)...

looking at the comparison chart posted above one will notice that, for Pop/Rock Strings, having TVEC 3 normally requires an update. it was only included in the group buy as the result of a mistake Kirk's assistant made (that may be the reason it's not in the email). Kirk generously chose not to correct that mistake. i think ppl who bought PRS in the GB truly got the deal of the year

anyone buying PRS after the group buy will have to buy TVEC 3 separately if they want it, currently $29 USD

i bought the TVEC 3 upgrade back when it first came out and i have to say it makes PRS a lot more versatile and much easier to use. i love it
kcisANDderit - Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:19 pm
Problem with NI Authorization Manager
(related to the missing sample error posted above)

musicalwarmth812 wrote:
Mikelo wrote:
Went to activate offline in service centre but no option to enter serial code for Kirk Hunter Pop Rock strings.
Can't even try in demo mode as I get Patch encrypted and cannot be loaded unless the respective library is registered properly"
but as I said, there's no option to enter the serial code!


Mikelo, I am attaching Sven's post that solved my identical problem...

Sven wrote:
Hi musicalwarmth812

Your issue is the same thing that happend last year during the PRS GB. Because some of us like to unzip the downloads into a new folder, the Native Instruments Service Center find the name of a few files (in your case not a file but a folder with the same name) needed for installation, create some of the registry keys and cannot move on because the following registry keys are not generated because the file that should do that is a folder. Because the first keys are created, NISC thinks that everything is fine and it doesn't ask for your serial number anymore. Therefore you cannot authorise either.

I created a PDF file last year and uploaded it to the bank and patch area here at KVR. This is the information based on a windows system and can be used for xp, vista and win7.

Here: http://www.kvraudio.com/banks.php?s=dl&id=1487

is the download link for my PDF. Follow every step very carefully and your library will work within at most ten minutes. Pay extra attention to the changes in the registry and look how everything is written.

Greetings
Sven
kcisANDderit - Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:28 pm
Saving RAM
(how to create smaller intruments)

KirkHunter wrote:
musicdoc wrote:
I'm only seeing these gigantic huge Kontakt progs that take close to a gig in ram. Is there a way of only loading one articulation or section without going into Kontakt and editing out what you don't need? Otherwise, even with a newer computer RAM in these kind of amounts sometimes gets hard to come by. Sometimes you just need a sustain sound without any fancy stuff.


Go here http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/Concert_Brass_II_Manual_TVEC3/CS_II_Items/purge.html

You can then create your own smaller instruments.
synchronizer - Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:35 pm
I'd like to point out that the "46 Strings" instrument in Diamond seems to have a sample missing: Short Notes, Staccato 3, Spiccato. If it's indeed a missing sample, I hope the problem will be addressed soon. I have had no more problems regarding missing content.
DarkStar - Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:41 pm
There are an online TVEC 3 User Guide here:
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/Concert_Strings_II_Manual_TVEC3/CS_II_Items/tvec2_overview.html
and
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/Concert_Brass_II_Manual_TVEC3/CS_II_Items/tvec2_overview.html


And "TVEC 3 At a Glance" guides here:
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/tvec3_strings.html
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/tvec3_brass.html

Are there any downloadable .html versions or .PDF versions?
kcisANDderit - Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:51 pm
TVEC 3 PDF Files


DarkStar wrote:
Are there any downloadable .html versions or .PDF versions?


i haven't seen any pdf versions so i made them:

TVEC 3 Programming (Concert Strings II)

TVEC 3 Programming (Concert Brass II)

TVEC 3 For Strings At-A-Glance

TVEC 3 For Brass (French Horns, Trumpets, Trombones) At-A-Glance
jerrypettit - Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:36 pm
I'm missing something.

I just upgraded to Kontakt 5, authorized, etc. I can successfully play instruments in Kontakt 5. Yay!

Except my KH stuff (which has all been "extracted here" successfully and is being seen by Kontakt). (I just bought Concert Strings II, and Concert Brass).

When I open it in Kontakt it says "Demo", for one thing. Did I miss some kind of authorization procedure?

No sound. I can see "midi" happening on the indicator, but no sound. I CAN get sound out of my other Kontakt instruments.

What am I missing?
DarkStar - Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:31 am
@kcisANDderit,

That's good of you to do that (but that's just a single Overview page Smile).
AKJ - Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:57 am
jerrypettit wrote:
I'm missing something.

I just upgraded to Kontakt 5, authorized, etc. I can successfully play instruments in Kontakt 5. Yay!

Except my KH stuff (which has all been "extracted here" successfully and is being seen by Kontakt). (I just bought Concert Strings II, and Concert Brass).

When I open it in Kontakt it says "Demo", for one thing. Did I miss some kind of authorization procedure?

No sound. I can see "midi" happening on the indicator, but no sound. I CAN get sound out of my other Kontakt instruments.

What am I missing?


this is strange since these are unprotected libraries... Are you sure that K5 was fully authorized?
kcisANDderit - Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:59 am
DarkStar wrote:
@kcisANDderit,

That's good of you to do that (but that's just a single Overview page Smile).


i included everything i see when i click your links. i don't understand, what's missing?

I guess you mean all of the table of contents. I'll have it tonight

[edit]: pdf post above updated with complete TVEC 3 guides for CS2 and CB2
jerrypettit - Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:06 am
>What am I missing?...this is strange since these are unprotected libraries... Are you sure that K5 was fully authorized?<

**Yes. I am able to play other sounds in there--just not KH.

...sigh... I'll contact Hunter directly and see if we can figure things out.
amadeusrecords - Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:53 am
Vibrato in Solo Bowed Instruments

In solo instruments of Concert Strings II (and previous) VibratoLive is not implemented.
Furthermore, there are not intermediate levels of vibrato between 'non vibrato' and 'vibrato espressivo'.

Quote:
The vibrato levels can be changed a LITTLE bit if you use less velocity. This is only for the violins and violas however.

Thanks,
Kirk
kcisANDderit - Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:27 am
jerrypettit wrote:
>What am I missing?...this is strange since these are unprotected libraries... Are you sure that K5 was fully authorized?<

**Yes. I am able to play other sounds in there--just not KH.

...sigh... I'll contact Hunter directly and see if we can figure things out.


"demo" errors have so far been related to an incorrect installation procedure

if it turns out your problem/solution is indeed different please come back here and post the solution
StickyWicket - Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:39 am
kcisANDderit wrote:
StickyWicket wrote:
Quote:
if you use extract to instead of extract here, extra subfolders will be created leading to an error msg when you try to load an instrument


I wish I read this before installing.... Rolling Eyes

I downloaded Diamond into a different folder than where all my Kontakt4 samples are kept, but both are on the same drive. What's the best way to fix this so I can use the "extract here" function so it will see all the samples?

Thanks,


as DarkStar said, it's easiest to delete and start from scratch. i think it may be more time consuming for you otherwise


Thanks kcis & Darkstar...
I deleted and reinstalled in the K4 samples folder, but haven't had a chance to check it out yet.....will do so tonight. Smile

Great idea on starting this Tips/Q&A thread!! Very Happy
DarkStar - Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:12 am
^^^^
You're welcome
DarkStar - Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:12 am
synchronizer wrote:
I was simply asking if there was a way to control how much emphasis there is on the bow/scraping noises [in Diamond]

KirkHunter wrote:
Yes you can easily control this using either the attack knob, lessening the marcato amount, or even choosing a lighter staccato style such as detaché.
KirkHunter - Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:48 am
DarkStar wrote:
There are an online TVEC 3 User Guide here:
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/Concert_Strings_II_Manual_TVEC3/CS_II_Items/tvec2_overview.html
and
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/Concert_Brass_II_Manual_TVEC3/CS_II_Items/tvec2_overview.html


And "TVEC 3 At a Glance" guides here:
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/tvec3_strings.html
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/tvec3_brass.html

Are there any downloadable .html versions or .PDF versions?


I'll look into the missing sample issue. Also, I'm putting together a wishlist, so I'll include what you wrote before about extending the assignable keyswitch range.
KirkHunter - Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:56 am
jerrypettit wrote:
I'm missing something.

I just upgraded to Kontakt 5, authorized, etc. I can successfully play instruments in Kontakt 5. Yay!

Except my KH stuff (which has all been "extracted here" successfully and is being seen by Kontakt). (I just bought Concert Strings II, and Concert Brass).

When I open it in Kontakt it says "Demo", for one thing. Did I miss some kind of authorization procedure?

No sound. I can see "midi" happening on the indicator, but no sound. I CAN get sound out of my other Kontakt instruments.

What am I missing?


Thanks for the email about this. I didn't see this thread until today. We'll get to the bottom of it.
DarkStar - Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:00 am
PRS - Folders and Files

This may be helpful. Below is a listing showing the organisation of the folders and files for Pop Rock Strings.
-- it includes the TVEC-3 Instruments, whioch are a bonus in the GB,
-- I have removed several of the ifles, for clarity,
-- I have added a folder "zz_originals_DS". I store the original Instrument patches (in their .zip files) in there, just in case I manage to mistakenly overwrite any of them. Smile


Folders:

K:\KIRK HUNTER\POP ROCK STRINGS
+---Documentation
|   \---Pop_Rock_Strings_II_Manual
|       \---CS_II_Items
|           \---images_manual
+---Instruments
|   +---a_4_Solo_String_Players (Solo)
|   +---b_13_String_Players (Quarter-Chamber)
|   +---c_23_String_Players (Half-Studio)
|   +---d_46_String_Players (Whole-Symphonic)
|   +---e_Combined_Sections (QUAD)
|   +---zz_originals_DS
|   \---_TVEC_3_Instruments
|       \---ir_samples_TVEC3
\---Samples


Files:

K:\KIRK HUNTER\POP ROCK STRINGS
|   Pop Rock Strings_info.nkc
|   Pop Rock Strings_info.nkx
|   
+---Documentation
|   |   Pop_Rock_Strings_Manual.pdf
|   |   
|   \---Pop_Rock_Strings_II_Manual
|       |   Pop_Strings_Manual.html
|       |   
|       \---CS_II_Items
|           |   accent_styles.html
... etc
|           |   vibratolive.html
|           |   
|           \---images_manual
|                   accentchooser.png
... etc
|                   vibratolive2.png
|                   
+---Instruments
|   +---a_4_Solo_String_Players (Solo)
|   |       00-----------VIOLINS------------------------.nki
|   |       01 Pop Rock Violins Solo All Articulations.nki
... etc
|   |       46 Pop Rock Strings Solo Pizzicato.nki
|   |       
|   +---b_13_String_Players (Quarter-Chamber)
|   |       00-----------VIOLINS------------------------.nki
|   |       01 Pop Rock Violins 4 All Articulations.nki
... etc
|   |       46 Pop Rock Strings 13 Pizzicato.nki
|   |       
|   +---c_23_String_Players (Half-Studio)
|   |       00-----------VIOLINS------------------------.nki
|   |       01 Pop Rock Violins 8 All Articulations.nki
... etc
|   |       46 Pop Rock Strings 23 Pizzicato.nki
|   |       
|   +---d_46_String_Players (Whole-Symphonic)
|   |       00-----------VIOLINS------------------------.nki
|   |       01 Pop Rock Violins 16 All Articulations.nki
... etc
|   |       46 Pop Rock Strings 46 Pizzicato.nki
|   |       
|   +---e_Combined_Sections (QUAD)
|   |       00-----------VIOLINS------------------------.nki
|   |       01 Pop Rock Violins QUAD All Articulations.nki
... etc
|   |       46 Pop Rock Strings QUAD Pizzicato.nki
|   |       
|   +---zz_originals_DS
|   |       Instruments.zip
|   |       _TVEC_3_Instruments.zip
|   |       _TVEC_3_Update_Instruments.zip
|   |       
|   \---_TVEC_3_Instruments
|       |   000    V I O L I N S    V I O L I N S    V I O L I N S    .nki
|       |   001        16,8,4,1 Players                                     .nki
|       |   002 Pop Rock Violins QUAD All Articulations.nki
|       |   003 Pop Rock Violins QUAD Accented.nki
|       |   004 Pop Rock Violins QUAD Smooth, Adagio.nki
|       |   005 Pop Rock Violins QUAD Short Notes.nki
|       |   006 Pop Rock Violins QUAD Tremolo.nki
|       |   007 Pop Rock Violins QUAD Pizzicato.nki
... etc
|       |   490        Solos                                                    .nki
|       |   491 Pop Rock Strings Solos All Articulations.nki
|       |   492 Pop Rock Strings Solos Accented.nki
|       |   493 Pop Rock Strings Solos Smooth, Adagio.nki
|       |   494 Pop Rock Strings Solos Short Notes.nki
|       |   495 Pop Rock Strings Solos Tremolo.nki
|       |   496 Pop Rock Strings Solos Pizzicato.nki
|       |   TVEC3SkinPRSbasses.tga
|       |   TVEC3SkinPRScellos.tga
|       |   TVEC3SkinPRScomb.tga
|       |   TVEC3SkinPRSviolas.tga
|       |   TVEC3SkinPRSviolins.tga
|       |   _TVEC_3_Installation.rtf
|       |   
|       \---ir_samples_TVEC3
|               bass_1.wav
|               cello_2.wav
|               kh_brite_room.00.wav
|               kh_brite_room.01.wav
|               viola_1.wav
|               violin_1.wav
|               
\---Samples
        Pop Rock Strings_001.nkc
        Pop Rock Strings_001.nkx
        Pop Rock Strings_002.nkc
        Pop Rock Strings_002.nkx
        Pop Rock Strings_003.nkc
        Pop Rock Strings_003.nkx
        Pop Rock Strings_004.nkc
        Pop Rock Strings_004.nkx
        Pop Rock Strings_refmap.txt
       
synchronizer - Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:47 am
I'm curious if it's possible to make more TVEC 3 versions of Diamond instruments; namely the non-solo woodwinds.

Thank you for looking into the key switches and missing sample Smile. (That's the only one I've found thus far.)

Thanks for the scraping bow solution too! Very Happy

One thing that I've noticed though: The upward slides in string instruments work, but for some reason I can't get the downward slides to work. Is there a problem or is there some procedure that I haven't figured out. For up slides, I move the pitch wheel up and then press the note. It works there. If I move the wheel down though, the note plays normally.
KirkHunter - Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:49 am
synchronizer wrote:
I'm curious if it's possible to make more TVEC 3 versions of Diamond instruments; namely the non-solo woodwinds.

Thank you for looking into the key switches and missing sample Smile. (That's the only one I've found thus far.)

Thanks for the scraping bow solution too! Very Happy

One thing that I've noticed though: The upward slides in string instruments work, but for some reason I can't get the downward slides to work. Is there a problem or is there some procedure that I haven't figured out. For up slides, I move the pitch wheel up and then press the note. It works there. If I move the wheel down though, the note plays normally.


Tell me the exact name of the instrument that has the issue, and I'll take a look.
synchronizer - Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:50 am
EDIT:

The instrument is in the TVEC 3 instruments folder, and in the folder called 41_COMB_46_players.

Instruments: a 46 strings all articulations
d 46 strings short notes

(Either instrument set to Short, staccato 3 "Spiccato") No sample is played for me.
KirkHunter - Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:56 am
synchronizer wrote:
I'd like to point out that the "46 Strings" instrument in Diamond seems to have a sample missing: Short Notes, Staccato 3, Spiccato. If it's indeed a missing sample, I hope the problem will be addressed soon. I have had no more problems regarding missing content.


Ah, I forgot. That strings combination set did not include spiccato. I will try to eliminate the confusion in the gui.
synchronizer - Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:58 am
One more thing, I randomly chose an instrument: Diamond English Horn Solo, and the last two notes on the keyboard don't play. Perhaps it's simply mislabeled and the two notes are out of range. Just checking. EDIT: The Kontakt orchestral library has a couple extra notes on the high end for its oboe. Are these missing samples?
Thank you for ending the confusing regarding the 46 strings Smile.


May I ask?: Is any part of Diamond fully sampled, or does each instrument have stretched samples here and there? I'm just curious.
KirkHunter - Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:24 pm
synchronizer wrote:
One more thing, I randomly chose an instrument: Diamond English Horn Solo, and the last two notes on the keyboard don't play. Perhaps it's simply mislabeled and the two notes are out of range. Just checking. EDIT: The Kontakt orchestral library has a couple extra notes on the high end for its oboe. Are these missing samples?
Thank you for ending the confusing regarding the 46 strings Smile.


May I ask?: Is any part of Diamond fully sampled, or does each instrument have stretched samples here and there? I'm just curious.


Fist of all, a lot of Diamond is chromatically sampled....such as most of the woodwinds, most of the newer strings such as concert strings 1 and studio strings, and a lot of the newer concert brass 1 as well.

I will be uploading a fix for the string combinations patch for diamond so that the staccato knob and keyswitching only allows the available articulations where staccato is concerned.

The ranges of the woodwinds you mention are ok. It's just the keyboard representation has a mistake.
synchronizer - Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:28 pm
Thank you very much for the information.

Concert Strings I isn't in TVEC though, hopefully it is what is used in "Diamond Strings". EDIT: It isn't oh well. It's too bad that more of Diamond isn't put into TVEC 3.1. It's absolutely fantastic technology! Very Happy
P.T. - Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:18 am
I have to ask about RAM usage with Concert Strings II and Concert Brass II.

It seems very high.

I load Reaper and Kontakt and 8 instruments.
2 solo violins and a Quad Violin and 2 solo Cellos and a quad Cello.
Task Manager says 1.55gb.
I purge all of the samples and windows Task Manager says I am using 1.5gb of RAM.

That's with zero samples loaded.

I then checked Task Manager with just Reaper and Kontakt loaded.

It says 570mb. That's with 4 instances of Kontakt. I know I can load everything in one instance. Kontakt uses about 40mb per instance.

I load the above instruments (with all samples purged) and it says 1.55gb.

That's 980mb for 8 instruments with no samples.

If I then play the small piece that I wrote Kontakt loads 40mb of samples.

I'm using 40mb of samples (plus about 570mb for Reaper, Kontakt and windows)and I'm using 1.55gb of RAM.

What is taking up 980mb of RAM?

With CB II French Horns the overhead is even larger.
With all samples purged it uses about 200mb of RAM.
kcisANDderit - Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:40 am
P.T. wrote:
What is taking up [so much] RAM?


I don't have a definitive answer for you but I've been very interested in knowing this myself. i've learned this week that until I can afford some more power I need a way to get a handle on this if i'm going to make serious use of CB2 (just using it with Player while waiting for full version)

my theory is that Kontakt's scripts are the culprit. but that's just a guess by process of elimination. I know next to squat about Kontakt's inner workings
P.T. - Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:48 am
kcisANDderit wrote:
P.T. wrote:
What is taking up [so much] RAM?


I don't have a definitive answer for you but I've been very interested in knowing this myself. i've learned this week that until I can afford some more power I need a way to get a handle on this if i'm going to make serious use of CB2 (just using it with Player while waiting for full version)

my theory is that Kontakt's scripts are the culprit. but that's just a guess by process of elimination. I know next to squat about Kontakt's inner workings


It's actually worse than I said in my above post.

I was going from memory of the testing I had done.

I just checked again and revised mu above post.

I can't get much work done like this either.
I have to constantly render tracks.
kcisANDderit - Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:54 am
hey Kirk,
TVEC 3-point-one...is there an update for Pop/Rock I missed?
kcisANDderit - Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:01 am
P.T. wrote:
I can't get much work done like this either.
I have to constantly render tracks.


you don't want to hear the workflow i've come up with to deal with it (It's bad enough I tend to work slowly)
P.T. - Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:17 am
kcisANDderit wrote:
P.T. wrote:
I can't get much work done like this either.
I have to constantly render tracks.


you don't want to hear the workflow i've come up with to deal with it (It's bad enough I tend to work slowly)


Rendering really isn't a solution because I want to edit instruments against each other, so I really need the midi to be active for any instruments I am working on.
P.T. - Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:34 am
Ram Usage.

I think this is a TVEC 3 issue.

I have Diamond.
Both the TVEC 2 version and the TVEC 3 version.

I just loaded the Violins in TVEC 2. The Concert Violins as I am fairly certain those are the ones used in the TVEC 3 instrument.

Task Manager went from 487 to 504 with the Violins loaded and purged.

I then tried the TVEC 3 Violins.
Task Manager went from 487 to 604.

TVEC 3 is using an extra 100mb.
P.T. - Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:39 am
Kirk.

Is there a chance that we could have the TVEC 2 instruments for CS II and CB II if they exist?

Is there a chance that the RAM usage could be brought down in line with the TVEC 2 instruments?

Those of us on windows 32 bit systems and the 2 gb limit could use that extra 100mb per instrument.
It adds up quickly in an orchestral piece.

I tend to use at least 5 string sections, 4 brass and woodwinds and percussion. Even just the strings and brass is an extra 900mb.

That's the difference between being able to work and not being able to work.

___________________________
EDIT

Maybe it won't help much.

I just checked PRS.
I have both TVEC 2 and TVEC 3.

TVEC 3 uses about 100mb and TVEC 2 uses about 70mb.

The extra 30, if it is consistent across all instruments might help in a pinch: 9 x 30mb= 270mb.
AKJ - Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:48 am
P.T. wrote:
Kirk.

Is there a chance that we could have the TVEC 2 instruments for CS II and CB II if they exist?

Is there a chance that the RAM usage could be brought down in line with the TVEC 2 instruments?

Those of us on windows 32 bit systems and the 2 gb limit could use that extra 100mb per instrument.
It adds up quickly in an orchestral piece.

I tend to use at least 5 string sections, 4 brass and woodwinds and percussion. Even just the strings and brass is an extra 900mb.

That's the difference between being able to work and not being able to work.


hi,

just a few things to clarify:

a) as far as I know the memory limit of a 32 bit windows system is like 3gb (with IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE)
b) that an instrument has a larger sample amount linked to it does not mean that kontakt actually uses more memory. Kontakt has disk streaming (direct from disk) so it dynamically loads the samples needed. With "purge" you can bring the samples loaded from start down to a very low size (however, when playing live, you might experience more glitches then)

hope this helps

cheers, akj
KirkHunter - Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:33 am
synchronizer wrote:
Thank you very much for the information.

Concert Strings I isn't in TVEC though, hopefully it is what is used in "Diamond Strings". EDIT: It isn't oh well. It's too bad that more of Diamond isn't put into TVEC 3.1. It's absolutely fantastic technology! Very Happy


Actually, if you get Diamond, you do get TVEC 3 with Concert Strings 1.
KirkHunter - Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:35 am
P.T. wrote:
I have to ask about RAM usage with Concert Strings II and Concert Brass II.

It seems very high.

I load Reaper and Kontakt and 8 instruments.
2 solo violins and a Quad Violin and 2 solo Cellos and a quad Cello.
Task Manager says 1.55gb.
I purge all of the samples and windows Task Manager says I am using 1.5gb of RAM.

That's with zero samples loaded.

I then checked Task Manager with just Reaper and Kontakt loaded.

It says 570mb. That's with 4 instances of Kontakt. I know I can load everything in one instance. Kontakt uses about 40mb per instance.

I load the above instruments (with all samples purged) and it says 1.55gb.

That's 980mb for 8 instruments with no samples.

If I then play the small piece that I wrote Kontakt loads 40mb of samples.

I'm using 40mb of samples (plus about 570mb for Reaper, Kontakt and windows)and I'm using 1.55gb of RAM.

What is taking up 980mb of RAM?

With CB II French Horns the overhead is even larger.
With all samples purged it uses about 200mb of RAM.


I'll check on this, but I suspect the monitoring is way off.
KirkHunter - Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:39 am
kcisANDderit wrote:
hey Kirk,
TVEC 3-point-one...is there an update for Pop/Rock I missed?


Nope. 3.1 was used only as a delineation from the first 3.0 version. 3.0 looked like this in Concert Strings 2 and Concert Brass 2:

http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/images/tvec3_strings.jpg

After that, I completely overhauled it. It was then that it became 3.1. But since it was not really released in PRS, I just used the name 3.0. I suppose I should use 3.0 in everything since it is the definitive release. It's just that there ARE a few out there who have the old 3.0 with their Concert Strings 2 and Concert Brass 2 libraries.
KirkHunter - Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:41 am
P.T. wrote:
Kirk.

Is there a chance that we could have the TVEC 2 instruments for CS II and CB II if they exist?

Is there a chance that the RAM usage could be brought down in line with the TVEC 2 instruments?

Those of us on windows 32 bit systems and the 2 gb limit could use that extra 100mb per instrument.
It adds up quickly in an orchestral piece.

I tend to use at least 5 string sections, 4 brass and woodwinds and percussion. Even just the strings and brass is an extra 900mb.

That's the difference between being able to work and not being able to work.

___________________________
EDIT

Maybe it won't help much.

I just checked PRS.
I have both TVEC 2 and TVEC 3.

TVEC 3 uses about 100mb and TVEC 2 uses about 70mb.

The extra 30, if it is consistent across all instruments might help in a pinch: 9 x 30mb= 270mb.


If you go back to your Concert Strings 2 download page, you'll see that the old TVEC 2 instruments are included as a download there. TVEC 2 was never used in Concert Brass 2, however. But again, I'm looking into the RAM thing.
amadeusrecords - Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:44 am
Changing mood:
My first sketch with CSII:
http://tomaszlida.pl/kirk/Prinzessa_Valse_quartett.mp3

[kcisANDderit, sorry, I'll remove that post it after]
kcisANDderit - Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:04 pm
amadeusrecords wrote:
Changing mood:
My first sketch with CSII:
http://tomaszlida.pl/kirk/Prinzessa_Valse_quartett.mp3


good stuff! you need to finish that and enter it in the contest

Quote:
[kcisANDderit, sorry, I'll remove that post it after]

Question
P.T. - Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:34 pm
KirkHunter wrote:
P.T. wrote:
I have to ask about RAM usage with Concert Strings II and Concert Brass II.

It seems very high.

I load Reaper and Kontakt and 8 instruments.
2 solo violins and a Quad Violin and 2 solo Cellos and a quad Cello.
Task Manager says 1.55gb.
I purge all of the samples and windows Task Manager says I am using 1.5gb of RAM.

That's with zero samples loaded.

I then checked Task Manager with just Reaper and Kontakt loaded.

It says 570mb. That's with 4 instances of Kontakt. I know I can load everything in one instance. Kontakt uses about 40mb per instance.

I load the above instruments (with all samples purged) and it says 1.55gb.

That's 980mb for 8 instruments with no samples.

If I then play the small piece that I wrote Kontakt loads 40mb of samples.

I'm using 40mb of samples (plus about 570mb for Reaper, Kontakt and windows)and I'm using 1.55gb of RAM.

What is taking up 980mb of RAM?

With CB II French Horns the overhead is even larger.
With all samples purged it uses about 200mb of RAM.


I'll check on this, but I suspect the monitoring is way off.


When Task manager gets up to around 2gb the computer either freezes or crashes.
I'll get a message that there is not enough memory to load the instrument and the computer freezes and I have to Ctrl>Alt>Del my way out.
synchronizer - Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:36 pm
KirkHunter wrote:
synchronizer wrote:
Thank you very much for the information.

Concert Strings I isn't in TVEC though, hopefully it is what is used in "Diamond Strings". EDIT: It isn't oh well. It's too bad that more of Diamond isn't put into TVEC 3.1. It's absolutely fantastic technology! Very Happy


Actually, if you get Diamond, you do get TVEC 3 with Concert Strings 1.

Pardon me for my ignorance, but from my understanding, the only instruments that use TVEC 3.1 are in the TVEC 3.1 instruments folder. The vast majority of the instruments doesn't use it at all. -at least, the only instruments labeled "concert strings" come up with this interface:



I'm rather confused. Have I not installed everything correctly?
P.T. - Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:12 pm
synchronizer wrote:
KirkHunter wrote:
synchronizer wrote:
Thank you very much for the information.

Concert Strings I isn't in TVEC though, hopefully it is what is used in "Diamond Strings". EDIT: It isn't oh well. It's too bad that more of Diamond isn't put into TVEC 3.1. It's absolutely fantastic technology! Very Happy


Actually, if you get Diamond, you do get TVEC 3 with Concert Strings 1.

Pardon me for my ignorance, but from my understanding, the only instruments that use TVEC 3.1 are in the TVEC 3.1 instruments folder. The vast majority of the instruments doesn't use it at all. -at least, the only instruments labeled "concert strings" come up with this interface:



I'm rather confused. Have I not installed everything correctly?


That is TVEC 2.

While not the exact same as TVEC 3 it functions in a similar weay.
synchronizer - Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:14 pm
Yet we all can agree that TVEC 3.1 is much nicer. It would be great if all of the instruments could be updated, but alas, I doubt it's worth Kirk's effort. It WOULD be great though. I wouldn't mind the lack of background art.
amadeusrecords - Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:23 pm
kcisANDderit wrote:
amadeusrecords wrote:
Changing mood:
My first sketch with CSII:
http://tomaszlida.pl/kirk/Prinzessa_Valse_quartett.mp3


good stuff! you need to finish that and enter it in the contest

Quote:
[kcisANDderit, sorry, I'll remove that post it after]

Question


The contest is not finished??
synchronizer - Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:25 pm
What instruments were used in that beautiful piece?
AKJ - Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:33 pm
synchronizer wrote:
KirkHunter wrote:
synchronizer wrote:
Thank you very much for the information.

Concert Strings I isn't in TVEC though, hopefully it is what is used in "Diamond Strings". EDIT: It isn't oh well. It's too bad that more of Diamond isn't put into TVEC 3.1. It's absolutely fantastic technology! Very Happy


Actually, if you get Diamond, you do get TVEC 3 with Concert Strings 1.

Pardon me for my ignorance, but from my understanding, the only instruments that use TVEC 3.1 are in the TVEC 3.1 instruments folder. The vast majority of the instruments doesn't use it at all. -at least, the only instruments labeled "concert strings" come up with this interface:



I'm rather confused. Have I not installed everything correctly?


the concert strings I are part of the tvec3 diamond strings
kcisANDderit - Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:34 pm
amadeusrecords wrote:
kcisANDderit wrote:
amadeusrecords wrote:
Changing mood:
My first sketch with CSII:
http://tomaszlida.pl/kirk/Prinzessa_Valse_quartett.mp3


good stuff! you need to finish that and enter it in the contest

Quote:
[kcisANDderit, sorry, I'll remove that post it after]

Question


The contest is not finished??


KirkHunter wrote:
After receiving numerous requests to extend the length of the contest, we have decided to extend the length of the Customer Demo Contest from November 22, 2011 to December 15, 2011 at 11:59 PM PT in order to accommodate customers who have recently purchased libraries in the Group Buy. The winning entries will be chosen by December 20, 2011 8:00 PM PT.

We thank everyone who has entered so far and encourage all of our customers who haven't yet submitted an entry to do so.

Kirk
abshet monkey - Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:59 pm
synchronizer wrote:
KirkHunter wrote:
synchronizer wrote:
Thank you very much for the information.

Concert Strings I isn't in TVEC though, hopefully it is what is used in "Diamond Strings". EDIT: It isn't oh well. It's too bad that more of Diamond isn't put into TVEC 3.1. It's absolutely fantastic technology! Very Happy


Actually, if you get Diamond, you do get TVEC 3 with Concert Strings 1.

Pardon me for my ignorance, but from my understanding, the only instruments that use TVEC 3.1 are in the TVEC 3.1 instruments folder. The vast majority of the instruments doesn't use it at all. -at least, the only instruments labeled "concert strings" come up with this interface:



I'm rather confused. Have I not installed everything correctly?


I just bought Diamond and I haven't been able to load it into Kontakt 4 as a library as it looks like you have. I was under the impression this wasn't possible. I'm new to Kontakt as well.

Am I not able to load Diamond as a library in Kontakt because I installed wrong? I can load instruments by going through the Files tab, but it isn't ideal for navigating through so many folders and nki files. Is there an advantage to using the Library tab?
KirkHunter - Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:01 pm
abshet monkey wrote:
synchronizer wrote:
KirkHunter wrote:
synchronizer wrote:
Thank you very much for the information.

Concert Strings I isn't in TVEC though, hopefully it is what is used in "Diamond Strings". EDIT: It isn't oh well. It's too bad that more of Diamond isn't put into TVEC 3.1. It's absolutely fantastic technology! Very Happy


Actually, if you get Diamond, you do get TVEC 3 with Concert Strings 1.

Pardon me for my ignorance, but from my understanding, the only instruments that use TVEC 3.1 are in the TVEC 3.1 instruments folder. The vast majority of the instruments doesn't use it at all. -at least, the only instruments labeled "concert strings" come up with this interface:



I'm rather confused. Have I not installed everything correctly?


I just bought Diamond and I haven't been able to load it into Kontakt 4 as a library as it looks like you have. I was under the impression this wasn't possible. I'm new to Kontakt as well.

Am I not able to load Diamond as a library in Kontakt because I installed wrong? I can load instruments by going through the Files tab, but it isn't ideal for navigating through so many folders and nki files. Is there an advantage to using the Library tab?


With Diamond, you don't need to go through the "Add Library" process. Just open the instruments, and you're good to go.
P.T. - Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:22 pm
synchronizer wrote:
Yet we all can agree that TVEC 3.1 is much nicer. It would be great if all of the instruments could be updated, but alas, I doubt it's worth Kirk's effort. It WOULD be great though. I wouldn't mind the lack of background art.


Not always.

I find that the sound of the TVEC 2 clarinet and the clarinet in the Older Folder sounds better than the TVEC 3 version.

I wouldn't have expected the programming to change the sound, but it has in some cases. I think they are all the same samples.
P.T. - Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:25 pm
KirkHunter wrote:
abshet monkey wrote:
synchronizer wrote:
KirkHunter wrote:
synchronizer wrote:
Thank you very much for the information.

Concert Strings I isn't in TVEC though, hopefully it is what is used in "Diamond Strings". EDIT: It isn't oh well. It's too bad that more of Diamond isn't put into TVEC 3.1. It's absolutely fantastic technology! Very Happy


Actually, if you get Diamond, you do get TVEC 3 with Concert Strings 1.

Pardon me for my ignorance, but from my understanding, the only instruments that use TVEC 3.1 are in the TVEC 3.1 instruments folder. The vast majority of the instruments doesn't use it at all. -at least, the only instruments labeled "concert strings" come up with this interface:



I'm rather confused. Have I not installed everything correctly?


I just bought Diamond and I haven't been able to load it into Kontakt 4 as a library as it looks like you have. I was under the impression this wasn't possible. I'm new to Kontakt as well.

Am I not able to load Diamond as a library in Kontakt because I installed wrong? I can load instruments by going through the Files tab, but it isn't ideal for navigating through so many folders and nki files. Is there an advantage to using the Library tab?


With Diamond, you don't need to go through the "Add Library" process. Just open the instruments, and you're good to go.


But, it's in the Library Tab rather than the Files Tab.

If you put the Diamond folder inside of the Kontakt Instruments folder it will show up in the Library Tab inside of the Kontakt Library.
P.T. - Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:52 am
In both CB2 and Diamond the volume control (in settings)for the intervals only works for UP intervals. It has no effect on DOWN intervals.

Is that the way it was programmed or is it a bug?

I would like to be able to change both the up and down interval volume.
amadeusrecords - Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:11 am
..
amadeusrecords - Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:20 am
P.T. wrote:
I have to ask about RAM usage with Concert Strings II and Concert Brass II.

It seems very high.

I load Reaper and Kontakt and 8 instruments.
2 solo violins and a Quad Violin and 2 solo Cellos and a quad Cello.
Task Manager says 1.55gb.
/../

I've read much about, because I have similar troubles. Also with other libraries. Problem seems to be in Win XP which is not capable to work hard and good with modern software as Reaper and Kontakt. All people using 64bit OS and more RAM do not report any memory management troubles with it.
KirkHunter - Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:42 am
P.T. wrote:
In both CB2 and Diamond the volume control (in settings)for the intervals only works for UP intervals. It has no effect on DOWN intervals.

Is that the way it was programmed or is it a bug?

I would like to be able to change both the up and down interval volume.


Let me look into that.
KirkHunter - Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:04 am
P.T. wrote:
In both CB2 and Diamond the volume control (in settings)for the intervals only works for UP intervals. It has no effect on DOWN intervals.

Is that the way it was programmed or is it a bug?

I would like to be able to change both the up and down interval volume.


Ok, there is a slight bug. The volume for the "down" intervals does work, but just not on the 6ths and 7ths. I've found the fix, and will post the update when finished here on this thread.
synchronizer - Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:46 am
I can honestly say that I love the sound of the instruments, but the keyswitches are giving me a bit of trouble. Despite what people have said numerous times, no I can not map the switches the way i want them to be. In the instrument itself, "smooth" is C#1. In my program, this is read as C#0. No matter what is done, the switches are mapped incorrectly. Perhaps adding extended keyboard support would help. I'm using Cubase 6 64-bit by the way.

Yes, I could deal with the problem and get used to it, but I am truly struggling when making compositions. I have to switch between Kontakt and the piano editor repeatedly.
Perhaps it can be looked into.

Basically, would extending the keyboard also make the keyswitches map differently? Most likely not. No matter what it seems that every switch is mapped one octave above its actual note.
KirkHunter - Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:55 am
synchronizer wrote:
I can honestly say that I love the sound of the instruments, but the keyswitches are giving me a bit of trouble. Despite what people have said numerous times, no I can not map the switches the way i want them to be. In the instrument itself, "smooth" is C#1. In my program, this is read as C#0. No matter what is done, the switches are mapped incorrectly. Perhaps adding extended keyboard support would help. I'm using Cubase 6 64-bit by the way.

Yes, I could deal with the problem and get used to it, but I am truly struggling when making compositions. I have to switch between Kontakt and the piano editor repeatedly.
Perhaps it can be looked into.

Basically, would extending the keyboard also make the keyswitches map differently? Most likely not. No matter what it seems that every switch is mapped one octave above its actual note.


Assigning keyswitch notes is MIDI-based. Therefore, the name "C#1" does not really mean anything. Just map it to the MIDI note you want. By default the current "C#1" mapping = MIDI note 25, which happens to be the lowest C# on most 88-note controllers.
synchronizer - Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:57 am
I guess I'll have to deal with it then. Ah well. I could make a couple Cubase expression maps.

Speaking of those, has anyone bothered making any expression maps? I'd certainly find them useful, especially for the key switches that require double taps. Those are kind of tricky.
standalone - Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:57 am
An how about using a Cubase's midi transformer? (midi inserts).
kcisANDderit - Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:01 am
synchronizer wrote:
... the switches are mapped incorrectly.


keywitches are never mapped incorrectly cuz there is no incorrect, it's all arbitrary. a dev can put them wherever he/she chooses below or above the instrument's range

but with KHS libraries you're given a choice to leave them at their defaults or move them to your liking

if in your program smooth reads as C#0 and you want it at C#1 then move it in the instrument to C#2

easy...
kcisANDderit - Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:16 am
standalone wrote:
An how about using a Cubase's midi transformer? (midi inserts).


that is an excellent idea

in Live I do a similar thing. I use a midi rack preset before a drum VSTi to transpose notes to the VSTi's mapping if it's different from general midi

That will easily apply to Diamond, CS2 and CB2 keyswitch mapping if you want to deal with it that way
DarkStar - Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:21 am
moved to next page
synchronizer - Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:26 am
Yes thanks.

By the way, I substituted my older instruments with Diamonds in this mock-up. Enjoy:

http://soundcloud.com/synchronizerman/relentless-tides-ver4
DarkStar - Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:29 am
synchronizer wrote:
In the instrument itself, "smooth" is C#1. In my program, this is read as C#0. No matter what is done, the switches are mapped incorrectly. Perhaps adding extended keyboard support would help. I'm using Cubase 6 64-bit by the way.

KirkHunter wrote:
Assigning keyswitch notes is MIDI-based. Therefore, the name "C#1" does not really mean anything. Just map it to the MIDI note you want. By default the current "C#1" mapping = MIDI note 25, which happens to be the lowest C# on most 88-note controllers.


I could be wrong, but I don't think that will do it. it's more a matter of how Cubase translates MIDI note numbers into note names. If synchroniser maps it to C#1 in Cubase - it will actually be CC note #37 and so be displayed as C#2 in his KHS product. Really the names in Cubase need to be knocked down an octave.

Here I have my lowest note name to be C-2 (MIDI note number = 0). So MIDI note 25 will be C#0 for me.

However, this makes me think. If MIDI note #25 is C#1 in the KHS products) but C#0 in Cubase, then when a C3 (MIDI note #48 ) note is played won't it appear in Cubase as C2? I guess it all depends on which MIDI note the host manufacturer regards a "middle C" (MIDI note #60) - I've seen C3, C4 and C5. Kirk has gone for C4.

Does that make sense?
KirkHunter - Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:04 am
DarkStar wrote:
synchronizer wrote:
In the instrument itself, "smooth" is C#1. In my program, this is read as C#0. No matter what is done, the switches are mapped incorrectly. Perhaps adding extended keyboard support would help. I'm using Cubase 6 64-bit by the way.

KirkHunter wrote:
Assigning keyswitch notes is MIDI-based. Therefore, the name "C#1" does not really mean anything. Just map it to the MIDI note you want. By default the current "C#1" mapping = MIDI note 25, which happens to be the lowest C# on most 88-note controllers.


I could be wrong, but I don't think that will do it. it's more a maater of how Cubase translates MIDI note numbers into note names. If synchroniser maps it to C#1 in Cubase - it will actually be CC note #37 and so be displayed as C#2 in his KHS product. Really the names in Cubase need to be knocked down an octave.

Here I have my lowest note name to be C-2 (MIDI note number = 0). So MIDI note 25 will be C#0 for me.

However, this makes me think. If MIDI note #25 is C#1 in the KHS products) but C#0 in Cubase, then when a C3 (MIDI note #4Cool note is played won't it appear in Cubase as C2? I guess it all depends on which MIDI note the host manufacturer regards a "middle C" (MIDI note #60) - I've seen C3, C4 and C5. Kirk has gone for C4.

Does that make sense?


For reference, middle C is always MIDI note 60. What the note is called, C4, C3, N5, R9, Z0465.3 should not matter unless some external engine references the notes rather than the midi number....which would be really BAAAAAD.
synchronizer - Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:09 am
Well in any case, I'm looking forward to the fix you said you found earlier.
KirkHunter - Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:13 am
synchronizer wrote:
Well in any case, I'm looking forward to the fix you said you found earlier.

Yes, I'm working on that.
synchronizer - Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:15 am
Sorry again for the key-switch mix-up. I never encountered an instrument that didn't conform to my DAW's "labeling protocol" by default.

I hope someone out there has the patience to make Cubase expression maps heh.
sidfrancis - Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:44 am
Some Problems with the Concert Strings II.

Problem 1:
I play around with Concert Strings II for some time now. When I startet to test it, I think the divisi live function did work as intended, but I am not shure, because it was not the most important feature I was looking for.
But today, when I fiddled around with it, it showed some weird behavior.
I loaded the Violas and switched to quarter section to hear the effect clearly. But Kontakt 5, latest patch, plays randomly the solo, the section or a mixture of both. I made an example for you:

http://www.box.com/s/hp63vpgb507g5inaanqv

I tested it with the violins and its the same.

Problem 2:
In the beginning I made my own patches after purging everywhere what I do not need. Also I made some basic settings in every own patch, for example velocity>volume=0 and modwheel>volume=6.
That worked like a charme and I could swear that the volume was always the same when not touching the modwheel, so working as intended. Today I notice that whatever I click at velocity>volume, there is always dynamics in it, more with setting 9 than with 0 but still very present. Isn't setting "0" meant to disable the velocity dynamics? Or have my ears been cheated all the time?

Problem 3:
I love the sound of the solo viola and I wanted to mix a bit of the quarter section in to fatten the sound slightly up. That unfortunatly did not work because the viola has some nasty detuned notes in it when heavier vibrato is wheeled in. Specially nasty is the A4. Normaly I tune the note in doubt myself in Kontakt, but not with Kirks umteen thousand groups..Wink I just don't find it. Could you please just check this?
EdC - Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:48 am
Hi Kirk, I'm still with kontakt4 player in demo mode (waiting fot k5 delivery) so check this thing on full version: if I load bass solo instrument the slided note is always at maximum loudness no matter how soft I play. Practically load that instrument in default settings, play a note, slide the pitch wheel up or down and if the problem exists you'll notice it on next note you're going to play. PS keep speakers volume low

Cheers
EdC - Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:59 am
synchronizer wrote:
Sorry again for the key-switch mix-up. I never encountered an instrument that didn't conform to my DAW's "labeling protocol" by default.

I hope someone out there has the patience to make Cubase expression maps heh.


Hi synchronizer, if you're not using a 88 midi kb if I were you I'd invest 40 euros for korg nano key keyboard to use just for keyswitching. it's very small and two octaves, more than enough for every program using keyswitches.
Because I'm not you I use logic and pressing shift lock I can use the computer keyboard for this puropse: from letter 'a' to letter 'l' it gives me more than a octave from C to F and black keys on upper row Very Happy
synchronizer - Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:09 am
I'm lucky enough to have an 88 key digital piano. It doesn't have pitch/mod wheels though. For basic playing it's perfectly fine. It's just that I normally add key switching after laying down the notes. Maybe there's a way to set a different root key for each instrument in Cubase?
EdC - Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:28 am
Does your master keyboard has split function? You could split it on the lowest violin note and transpose the keyswitches half the way you prefer.
musicdoc - Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:57 pm
With concert brass, the sustain trick to make a pedal sustain the sounds works just fine. However, on pop rock strings, the sustain pedal will sustain but then abruptly cut sounds off on repedaling. It makes playing with the sustain pedal impossible with pop rock strings for me. Is there a fix or workaround?
Harry_HH - Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:32 am
kcisANDderit wrote:
TVEC 3 PDF Files


DarkStar wrote:
Are there any downloadable .html versions or .PDF versions?


i haven't seen any pdf versions so i made them:

TVEC 3 Programming (Concert Strings II)

TVEC 3 Programming (Concert Brass II)

TVEC 3 For Strings At-A-Glance

TVEC 3 For Brass (French Horns, Trumpets, Trombones) At-A-Glance


Thank you for the great guides!
One minor thing which was not included (because it's only in
the Pop strings TVEC III) plas advice: how to do this so called "short note disco effect"?

Harry
kcisANDderit - Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:32 am
PRS Short Note Disco Effect


you can assign a CC# to ShortNotes FX, fall/scoop and FXramp in order to automate the effect




you can hear this sort of playing in this disco hit @ 0:42

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM72iWami9M
Harry_HH - Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:08 am
kcisANDderit wrote:
PRS Short Note Disco Effect


you can assign a CC# to ShortNotes FX, fall/scoop and FXramp in order to automate the effect



Cool! H.
windowman - Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:04 am
kcisANDderit wrote:
PRS Short Note Disco Effect


you can assign a CC# to ShortNotes FX, fall/scoop and FXramp in order to automate the effect




you can hear this sort of playing in this disco hit @ 0:42

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM72iWami9M


Hi, first post. First of all, thanks to DarkStar & the others for solving my problem in the other thread! Loving the CSII strings so far & will buy the brass.

Is this effect possible with CSII? I want to have a note play & 'fall' an octave very slowly, like a pitch bend without any bow notes in between. An analogy might be a slide guitar hitting a note & letting the slide fall down the neck for an octave. I can do it in Melodyne, but it ends up sounding very fake. (Cool effect though in itself.)

Thanks...

WM
synchronizer - Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:09 am
So the disco string falls are NOT in Diamond?
KirkHunter - Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:19 am
synchronizer wrote:
So the disco string falls are NOT in Diamond?


Right, and not in Concert Strings 2 as well.
KirkHunter - Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:20 am
musicdoc wrote:
With concert brass, the sustain trick to make a pedal sustain the sounds works just fine. However, on pop rock strings, the sustain pedal will sustain but then abruptly cut sounds off on repedaling. It makes playing with the sustain pedal impossible with pop rock strings for me. Is there a fix or workaround?


The sustain pedal in Pop Rock Strings is by default set to behave as a normal sustain pedal holding all notes.
KirkHunter - Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:23 am
synchronizer wrote:
Well in any case, I'm looking forward to the fix you said you found earlier.


Ok, the fixes for concert brass 2 are done. Now working on the same fix for appropriate instruments in Diamond.
amadeusrecords - Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:04 am
KirkHunter wrote:
Ok, the fixes for concert brass 2 are done. Now working on the same fix for appropriate instruments in Diamond.


Which files should be reuploaded?
KirkHunter - Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:16 am
amadeusrecords wrote:
KirkHunter wrote:
Ok, the fixes for concert brass 2 are done. Now working on the same fix for appropriate instruments in Diamond.


Which files should be reuploaded?


When they're ready to download, I'll post them along with what to do on this page:
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/upgrade.html

The fixes are in the Concert Brass 2 and the brass and woodwinds of Diamond.
DarkStar - Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:39 am
^^^^
Just an idea - I think that it would be better to put the patch updates on a different page from the paid Upgrades / Crossgrades. That would keep things simpler, imo.

Also, please put the date of each patch update in the description so that people can sort out which ones they already have / need to download.
EdC - Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:10 pm
EdC wrote:
Hi Kirk, I'm still with kontakt4 player in demo mode (waiting fot k5 delivery) so check this thing on full version: if I load bass solo instrument the slided note is always at maximum loudness no matter how soft I play. Practically load that instrument in default settings, play a note, slide the pitch wheel up or down and if the problem exists you'll notice it on next note you're going to play. PS keep speakers volume low

Cheers


Sorry, forgot to say that is related to CSII
KirkHunter - Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:00 pm
DarkStar wrote:
^^^^
Just an idea - I think that it would be better to put the patch updates on a different page from the paid Upgrades / Crossgrades. That would keep things simpler, imo.

Also, please put the date of each patch update in the description so that people can sort out which ones they already have / need to download.


Here ya go:

http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/update.html

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