KVR :: Instruments » Geist or Tremor - confusion! (done, bought geist) [View Original Topic]
There are 65 posts in this topic.

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CT - Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:01 am

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I bought the CM Beats & Bass Special with the intention of upgrading to Geist for 50% off. Then the fxpansion guys release tremor, I demoed it and really dug its interface and sound. Now im trying to decide between the two but finding it difficult, and not finding enough info to go by.

I own a maschine, and my inital reaction last month was that Geist would be quite redundant. But then, Geist does have timestretch, and excellent layering, and very good fx, and very quick loop slicing, etc. from what Ive read. My research seemed to indicate that Geist and Maschine actually play really well together, and so I bought the CM special. The 50% discount is till the 29th.

Now, along comes Tremor, and I seriously dig its interface, and Ive found it really quick to come up with very useable patterns in minutes.

I should mention that I also have Kong (Reason) and Drumaxx, though I think neither comes close to Tremor, especially Drumaxx. To be fair, I havent spent a lot of time with Kong as I havent been using Reason lately.

Right now, Im leaning towards Tremor, simply because I feel it expands my options and brings more to the table than geist, considering what I already have. But I should also mention that I have a core i3 3.06 ghz imac, and Tremor does take a lot of cpu.
Also, if I buy Geist now, I save $125 while with Tremor I only need to spend another 50 after the 9th of feb. So if I decide to get geist later, Ill end up spending a lot more.

I produce, or want to produce, ambient, drum and bass, and similar genres. I also work as a composer of background music for tv commercials, corporate films, and documentaries.

I would really appreciate any helpful comments that help me decide, particularly from those who own any, or even better, all of these products.

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ariston - Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:28 am

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Quite a conundrum...

Just a thought: you could approach the decision from a very practical, sober point of view - which would complement your setup better? That's basically the question you're asking.

You could, however, also use a different approach: which one really inspires you to make music? Tremor has obviously struck a chord with you. The cpu usage is a consideration, but there's always bounce 'n' freeze, and your hardware will probably get an update sometime in the future. To me, inspiration has made almost every purchase worth it, despite there being a good deal of overlap in my plugin collection.

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CT - Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:48 am

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After making my original post, I thought about it and realize that the question is not really one of IF I buy tremor, but when

I totally agree with what u say. Inspiration is at least as important as practicality, if not more so. Tremor to me is truly inspiring, very tweakable and not so difficult to program, though the depth is there too.

I guess the question is of whether Geist will be useful, since I have maschine. I think i already answered that question when I bought the CM special

Would still like to hear from those who own both maschine and geist.

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ZenPunkHippy - Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:56 am

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I have Maschine and Geist, but favour using Geist. It's very powerful, and provides basically everything required for sampling, slicing, layering, sequencing. Maschine is nice, but Geist is more focussed for what I want to achieve.

The obvious point about your OP is that Tremor is a drum synth, and Geist is a sampler. Which one do you need? Or if not need, which one would suit your workflow better?

Peace
Andy.

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Redspark - Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:12 am

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Totally agree with that. Although I love using Maschine it's always more of a standalone thing with it, rather than inserting it into a DAW project, whereas Geist is usually the first VST I insert into a project. It is very quick and intuitive to get going with ideas. Maschine does sound great but IMO I get better results with Geist.

Tremor, on the other hand, is primarily a synth and although it's quick and easy to get your rhythm parts going (the polyrhythms are brilliant), there's a lot more to do 'under the hood' to get at the sound you want. That's still very rewarding though.

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BERFAB - Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:30 am

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I own Geist, and I'm currently doing the math on whether it would make sense for me to get Tremor.

I spent a bit of serious Tremor time giving it a good run through, and, although I don't think my music is a fit for many of it's sounds, it is very intuitive and infinitely tweakable--overall, very good and fit to wear the FXpansion badge.

However, I then wondered if I could get similar results from Geist. Using Geist's pattern bank and going into the Experimental bank of kits (this MAY have been from the Guru expansion pack--not sure) I came up with some great beats that I think would rival anything I got from Tremor. I even used my results to bump out a complete track.

Now, obviously, I'm not creating new drum sounds in Geist, but you do have the ability to really alter your samples just about any way imaginable if that's what you want to do. As for me, I'm a preset guy, not a programmer. So, I think Geist will hold me for a while longer.

Cheers
-B

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CT - Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:00 pm

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Thanks guys, some of those comments made things clearer to me, and well, before I changed my mind again I went ahead and bought Geist

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codec_spurt - Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:00 pm

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Sensible advice.

But then again, would you feel as if your studio was really complete unless you had both?

If you don't know what the difference is, get both. You won't regret it.
They both do slightly different things anyway.

Seriously.

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codec_spurt - Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:05 pm

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You won't regret it.

It really is fifth-generation fighter software.

You will find yourself chuckling as you think, can I do this? and you realise it has all been thought about before you. FXpansion are a serious force to be reckoned with. They are something special and their products prove that.

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ZenPunkHippy - Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:06 pm

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KVR, where the answer is always "get both"

Peace,
Andy.

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stikygum - Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:20 pm

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I actually have both, annnnd Maschine. But if I were to recommend to someone what to get, I would say this. Both are great. Question you should ask yourself is, do you want the ability to have high quality drum samples or do you want to do for a more electro synthetic approach to drum. I almost akin Tremor to the old Electribe ER-1, but of course much more fun than that (without the hardware though). You get synthetic drums with Tremor.

With Geist you get to use samples, which I enjoy using and actually have to have access to. So for me because I need something that can use samples, and I love playing with synthetic drums, I bought Geist a while ago and just bought Tremor. I picked Fxpansion over Punch and some of the other drum machines in VST format out there, mainly because I really enjoy the interfaces of these two products. Tremor has a great 'quick' interface and Geist's sequencing and interface are similar (being Tremor utilizes Geist type sequencing with some differences).

Once I tried Tremor after owning Geist I realized they are both completely different sound machines, so I wanted both.

I have Maschine and really like it as well. The controller is great, but I would pick Geist over Maschine if I had to choose one. Geist is so efficient and streamlined and easy to use and it works the way I want.

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CT - Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:35 pm

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Yea theyve been churning out some incredible products. The concept behind synth squad's fusor is really cool, so huge in scope but essentially a very simple idea. Ive found synth squad and dune to be the most innovative synths in the last year or two, cause of simple ideas that are implemented really well.

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CT - Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:36 pm

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Yep, and always the "right" answer.

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stikygum - Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:11 pm

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To further sum up what I was saying earlier, I actually find myself having more fun tweaking and 'playing' with Tremor, but I actually use Geist more for making tracks, probably because I like using samples. And it's fun too, of course.

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pdxindy - Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:22 pm

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I would really prefer to have Tremor built into Geist... I find it a bit disappointing that FX came out with the cool features in Tremor and I have no option to have them in Geist. I especially like the sequencing in Tremor and wish Geist had that adjustable track lengths. I can do the similar thing with multiple Geist engines but it is not as fluid as on one page in Tremor.

Geist and Tremor are not designed to work together and there is no integration. For example, there are different groove engines. I don't feel like FX gave thought to Geist users when making Tremor.

FX has really tempted me cause by itself, Tremor rocks... but I am gonna use Geist cause I need the sampling, samples, more tracks, multiple engines and so on... so am left with deciding whether I want to run the 2 sequencers and my DAW. That added complexity is more than I want so for the moment, I am deciding no on Tremor. But damn it sounds good...

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knobs - Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:41 pm

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If they made Geist and Tremor crossover too much, there would be no reason to spring for both.

I couldnt be more happy with my Geist purchase and customer experience with Fxpansion.

these guys REALLY know what theyre doing.

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lightsfadelow - Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:42 pm

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I'm struggling with this too... because I have less than a month to decide on Tremor to get the special price.

The funny thing is that I'm still learning Geist.

But this is KVR, so I'm sure I'll end up buying Tremor too. Because if I were just about making music I'd avoid this place

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Andywanders - Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:26 pm

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Pardon me if I'm out of line here, but these kind of gigs are usually very well paid (at least they were when I did them), so why don't you just buy both? The fee from just one corporate video track should more than cover the cost.

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zerocrossing - Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:41 pm

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If you already have Maschine I agree that Tremor is the way to go if you can only do one. I don't know Giest's sample lib, but it's probably somewhat on par with Maschine's. Does Giest do multisamples? That's my only complaint with Maschine, though I'm a long time Battery owner so I'm set in that respect anyway. (why Maschine won't just load Battery kids is beyond me.

I don't think there's too much overlap between Tremor and Drumaxx either. I really like Drumaxx and it uses a totally different synthesis method, so, of course, the more the merrier.

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zerocrossing - Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:44 pm

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You'd think, but I did a whole bunch of music for a Facebook game and I swear I had to use KORE free and freeware synths for all my sounds... I even used my own license of Live. They claimed to have no money at all for music.

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pdxindy - Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:53 pm

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I'd be happy to pay the same price as Tremor (special for Geist user) to have it in Geist... so no loss financially...

From my side, the cost is of little concern, but workflow is. Now there are two cool sequencers each with features I want, and each environment has sounds I want, but those two products do not work together at all. There needs to be MORE crossover to make me want to buy both. Can you not use Trillian samples in Omnisphere? Can you not drive their products with a common groove? Spectrasonics does some integration between products which is enticing.

Anyway, of the two, Geist is far more capable. For me, there is no question which of the two I would purchase had I to choose. Geist. The sampling is superb and I can easily sample various synths and build kits of my own synth presets. That provides a far wider range of sounds than Tremor.

Fxpansion made a fine product with Tremor, but for me they made an indispensable one in Geist.

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CT - Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:28 am

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Yea .. But they dont pay all that much here in India, or at least its not that much when converted to dollars. And the indian rupee is really weak compared to the dollar nowadays anyway. Also, piracy is very common here, not so many freelancers buy software, and many of my friends and colleagues think Im an idiot for "actually spending money" on software.

Maybe in a few years when Im more established, I can charge a higher fee, but right now I dont get all that much per project.

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spritex - Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:55 am

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As a recent Geist purchaser, I am 100% with pdxindy on this.

I would pay for a major Geist upgrade, but I won't be getting Tremor because I don't want to complicate the workflow with separate sequencers for different sounds.

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munchkin - Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:33 am

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Have you thought about getting Omnisphere instead?
















The obligatory KVR Omnisphere post.

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whitecloud - Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:57 am

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I'm with you on this one. I have been on a Synth buying spree the last couple of month's. Bought an Akai "Miniak" then at the last minute before the Holiday special bought Geist and DCAM Synth Squad. I received the boxed versions the first week of this month. Having the demos for both and reading the manual and watching all the tutorial vids(I highly recommend) I was prepared to jump in and start making some noise. Then the Tremor demo appeared and the tempting offer until Feb 12. I put the other two on the back burner to demo Tremor.
I love it's seq, but think that it still is a work in progress. I noticed right off no drag and drop feature, but noticed I could record midi to track in my DAW's. Then I discovered in the past few days erratic behavior doing so. Some times it recorded the patterns to a midi track and sometimes not. I mentioned this in another thread, no response so far so may PM one of the FX guys. Can't
to a support ticket on a demo(as far as I know). Now I have been using Geist's
sampling feature to sample other drum sounds from my other synth's. It was actually a lot of fun doing so. Over the years I have been collecting quite a few drums samples and loops, so it makes sense for me to get to work using Geist. Synth Squad didn't come with many use able presets in a musical sense(this my own opinion) so I will have to roll up my sleeves with those synths. I may hold off on Tremor and get the Akai MPD32 as earlier planned. It comes with mapping for Geist which lays things out quite nicely. From what I've seen it is almost like using hardware. I haven't made a final decision though and am keeping a close eye on Tremor.

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inaheartbeat - Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:00 am

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OK I have both Geist and Tremor. I also have Omnisphere which was mentioned for some reason in here.

Omnisphere is not part of the discussion here nor should it be. It does not allow for sample import and is not a drum instrument or sampler. OK...got that out of the way. I do love Omnisphere though a LOT!

Geist for me just makes sampling and mapping onto my MPC pads SO easy that it would be hard to give up. The slicing tools and general workflow for sample manipulation is really nice in Geist. If your main focus is on getting samples into your workflow to play with and manipulate then Geist is your choice.

Tremor is outstanding for sequencing beats. It is the kind of software you open up and just seem to be able to get without too much reference to the manual. Very nice stuff. It is totally different than Geist and I agree they don't play well together. If you have a nice way to sequence beats and manipulate sound already that you like then you don't NEED tremor. It is a very very nice tool though and the price is not prohibitive. It eats far too much CPU as far as I can see and that sort of mystifies me.

So....my advice is get Geist first and save up for Tremor cause you will want it. They are both really nice tools to have in the arsenal.

Ken

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lightsfadelow - Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:25 am

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as a Spectrasonics "Everything" customer, I sure like Omnisphere and Trillian, but have migrated to Giest from Stylus RMX... not because RMX doesn't still have great content but because i can't really handle 2 rhythm instruments at the same time. I wonder if it will be the same if I bought Tremor.

Strangely, I have no problem using Kontakt, Omnisphere, Trillian, and Massive in the same project...

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CT - Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:30 am

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After downloading and playing with geist for a little while today, I have to reaffirm that what a lot of you said about Geist and its workflow was spot on. I already find it more convenient to work in than maschine as a plugin, and itll be really useful as a plugin within maschine too. With maschine, standalone is its forte, and it does not compare as a plugin. I also see geist being very useful as a sketchpad. Loved the workflow so far.

I didnt get much time to dig in today, but I will be getting a lot deeper into it over the next few days. And I cant wait. I can already see how the statement qbout geist being indispensible rings true. Geist has struck a chord with me too, as did tremor, and im glad I went for this instead. FXpansion guys get 10,000 points for yet another amazing product.

I dont know what is it with their stuff, but it really inspires me to dig in, and Ive really been enjoying all their stuff more so than any other, of late.

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srcodling - Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:36 am

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Can anyone comment on how Tremor compares to microTonic (uTonic) by Sonic Charge?

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epsy - Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:10 pm

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I am very excited to test out tremor. Been using waldorf attack for the same thing for years as my go to. This is the first thing I have seen that can rival and likely surpass it.

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whitecloud - Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:14 pm

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I have used Attack over the years, but Tremor has a killer seq with many options with either it or the synth engine. Download the demo, you'll see

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Phase47 - Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:45 pm

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They've got completely different sonic characteristics. Out of the box, Microtonic is a bit thin and more synthetic sounding, Tremor is more dense and overdriven sounding. Tremor's sequencer is more robust, but Microtonic can drag-and-drop MIDI to DAW. Microtonic is a mature v3.0 product. Tremor is newer tech, but suffers from some v1.0 stuff. Microtonic is very CPU-friendly. Tremor will eat your CPU for lunch _and_ dinner. So, trade-offs.


What I'm curious about, in this thread specifically, is how Geist compares to Xfer's Nerve??? Anybody have any thoughts on that?

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phazedown - Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:51 am

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Thought I'd share a small comparison on my top candidates:

Microtonic / Tremor / Geist
8 instruments / 8 instruments
12 patterns / 24 patterns
16 steps / 32 steps

lots of presets / lots of presets
"synthetic sound" / "analog sound" / sample based
fast results / more variety
cpu friendly / cpu melting
32bit / 32/64bit / 32/64bit
~90€ / 119€ / 189€
v3.0 / v1.0 / v1.0

Geist is out for me. I don't want 1,5 DAWs and xx GB samples.
Guess Microtonic will be my choice because cpu usage and simplicity.
But I'll give Tremor a closer try how fast I can build my sounds.

The worst thing is that for Deep House / Tech House I could even use both.
It gets more expensive month by month, damn

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whitecloud - Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:57 am

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Just a few corrections to your comparison table as far as Geist is concerned.
when you include 8 engines then you have 16x8 sample slots. Geist has 24 patterns instead of 16 and once again 24x8.
There are some preset patterns in pattern view top right "insert" pull down menu.
I know it is sample based but you can use the splitter plug to sample either hard or software synths. Lot's of possibilities their as you could sample Tremor u Microtonic, Punch whatever. And there are tools to mangle the sounds
to make some interesting sounds coming from generic samples. Just thought I would add that. I would suggest if I wanted two drum Vsti's it would include Geist with either one of the other ones considered.

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kgdrum - Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:15 am

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I have Geist and I checked out Tremor over the Holidays.
I prefer Tremors GUI & built in effects but I found the actual sounds too synth oriented and limited for my purposes.
In a perfect world I think XPansion should have redesigned the Geist GUI added better effects and had Tremor as an add on sound pack. I find the sounds to be too limited and synth oriented for me to justify purchasing or even using much if at all.
If I have a drum machine I want it to be able to sound like a drum machine, I have enough synths.

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lightsfadelow - Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:27 am

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I'm working on two songs in parallel at the moment. One uses Geist and one uses Tremor. I love them both.

I would be excited to see some of the neat little features from Tremor into Geist. But I'm glad I have both.

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jontah - Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:42 am

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very interesting thread.. I stumbled on Tremor, but my main-to-go sampler tool will always be Geist, simply because it's AMAZING to cut up loops, resampling, picking patterns from other loops and putting them onto new loops, picking out the sounds you like, etc. What I do in the end is to bounce it down as audio in logic anyway, kind of save it like my own sample packs and own loops.

But tremor, damn, looks amazing, I'm leaning towards getting that one as a sequencer and drum synthesiser, while using Geist as a pure sampler, any thoughts and recommendations about this? or does Geist work as good as Tremor as a sequencer?

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pdxindy - Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:17 am

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Depends on what you want in a sequencer... Overall Geist is a far more powerful sequencer. Patterns can be much longer. You can have 8 lanes in Tremor and you can have 128 in Geist. Geist has song mode so you can chain together patterns, switch patterns etc. Tremor is not enough by itself for me. 8 sounds throughout a song is never going to be enough so that means multiple instances.

Tremor has some speed advantage by being able to set the length of a sequencer lane independently. For a quick sequence it is faster than Geist, but like I said, it is not enough for me to use by itself so add the complexity of multiple instances and the advantage is gone.

I am also not going to be happy using 1 instrument like Tremor. Sampling my own sounds from other synths is easy in Geist so I can have many instruments in Geist which means more diversity of sound. Sampling is easy enough and fun enough that I do it per project.

I would like the per lane step length from Tremor to be added to Geist... also the nodulation lanes having their own length independent of the note steps. But no way will I be using the Tremor sequencer instead of Geist. It is just too limited compared to Geist for me.

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lightsfadelow - Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:40 pm

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I just finished my first song with Tremor... it was really fun and even a little magical to work with. My next song uses Geist (I actually started it earlier but it's a bigger production) and Geist feels much deeper, but because of that a little more intimidating.

I found that Tremor gave me a whole new vibe to work with and this song sounds different than most everything else I've written.

In both cases I was able to craft what I believe to be unique tracks in a way that just using loops (even in Stylus) or using patterns in a sampled drum kit like Battery couldn't provide without MUCH more work.

Here's the track: http://lightsfadelow.com/track/small

One miss here for [ EDIT: Tremor ] is that as a drum synth, many of the drum sounds are pitched. In this song, the kick is VERY pitched, and I had to automate the pitch parameter to get it to follow the song's chord progressions. It would have been much nicer to feed simple MIDI notes into the plugin. When you listen to the track you'll appreciate how critical pitching the kick was.

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pdxindy - Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:23 am

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It is much easier to just use a kick with a different pitch on a different pad... In Geist you have 16 pads per engine and 8 engines for a total of 128 pads (sounds) so there are plenty to have multiple pitches of the same sound on different pads... It is easy to do basslines in Geist this way too.

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lightsfadelow - Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:01 am

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Sorry I meant Tremor, not Geist. There weren't enough pad slots for me to do that. Geist I haven't ha this problem with mainly because as a sampler I don't find myself with pitched kick drum samples.

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pdxindy - Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:29 am

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It is easy to sample any synth in Geist. So you could sample your Tremor kick in multiple pitches. I sample all sorts of stuff into Geist!

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lightsfadelow - Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:42 am

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That's true, but a sample doesn't respond the same way as a synth. For example I had some hi-hat like synth sounds that as long as I played stayed within a pitch range... but when there was a break they did sort of a pitch glide. Can't do that in Geist. Don't get me wrong, I love Geist. But I also like Tremor for what it is. But given how likely it is that you'll get a pitchy sound with a drum synth, and given the more simple interface of Tremor, being able to set the notes that those "drum" sounds play via MIDI would be a nice add.

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jontah - Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:16 pm

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aye

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jontah - Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:03 am

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do you guys have any tips on how to use Geist for resampling? or is Logic better for this? (to slice up an already existing sample or your own resampled synth to make glitches)?


I really like this, perfect for percussion loops etc.

But I'm finding it really hard to slice a loop using spitter on an audio track to transfer it to the sampler and then to the slicer.

When I get the audio file to the slicer, there are only 16 pads, and when using the transients in Geist there are more transients than pads, what do I about this?

I just want to get each transient slice in on a pad, without using layers (because layers are just stacking and making a lot of awful noise)

Also, is this the ultimate way of resampling and editing? Would you recommend something else for this? I need tips, highlights and explanations of how you guys do it I can also use logic, but since Geist comes handy with the pattern sequencing built in, I don't have to bounce out the audio files I want to edit, I can just get the reverse effect, pitch, repeat etc in directly into Geist.

Big help needed! I'm loving this plugin!

EDIT: AND YES! I've watched ALL the tutorials on Youtube given by FXpansion, they're awsome! But my question remains.

Answers are highly appreciated! I scratched my head about this today, spending hours of trying it out :/

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ZenPunkHippy - Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:19 am

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First obvious thing to check is the sensitivity of transient detection (use the knob between divide + classify buttons). If too sensitive, you'll end up with too many slices (AFAIK slicing only works within the current engine i.e. 16 pads max).

Also, the length of your loop is important. If the loops is too long, there will be too many slices which means you'll need to use layering. The "Use Layers" button turns layers on and off, so if there are more than 16 slices turn it off.

How layers are triggered (all, velocity sensitive, round robin, random) can be changed on the Pads page. Select the top layer and you will see a zone layout. The menu at the top right sets the layer play mode.

Peace,
Andy.

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jontah - Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:11 am

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gah I double posted by mistake.. read question below!

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jontah - Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:15 am

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Ok is it possible to split it into different engine parts then? (should be?)

What I want to use geist for, is resampling! like in Ableton live, where you can just set a loop from lets say a disco tune and just keep testing different loops out and then put it into Logic using this plugin. As well as slicing it up and making a beat out of that specific loop. I've tried this by resampling the master in Geist but I just cannot get around how to loop it in the sampler window (to get it looping and setting a perfect loop that is snapped to the grid lines, so I can choose the best part and then export that)

the goal is to find a plugin where I can set up my collection of samples and slice and sample ANYTHING. I know that Native Instruments Kontakt is a great tool for this, but since Geist had this feature (and since I love Geist), I was wondering if this was possible?

Aswell as treating the sliced samples so that I can reverse it and add envelopes to it such as increasing the attack or the release (just like Ableton Lives simpler). I want to use Logic, but I got Ableton. It's just that I want to find something that works really great with Logic, almost like an integrated simpler such as in Ableton. I just don't want to close Logic and open Ableton all the time to sample stuff. Do you get my point?

Thanks.

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ZenPunkHippy - Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:01 am

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A better place to ask these more technical workflow questions would be the FXpansion forum ...

http://www.fxpansion.com/forum/index.php


Checked the manual ... looks like slicing is limited to the current engine.

Geist is able to resample, but it's not quite the same as working directly in Live because it's a 3rd party plugin. Logic already has a built in function Convert to Sampler Track which converts an audio region, with adjustable transient detection, to an EXS24 sampler instrument with the required MIDI to capture the groove.

EXS24 is great, but Geist is much more flexible and can do most if not all of the things you want. I'm not sure if it's possible to replicate the workflow you are used to in Live.

What I would try is placing the audio file on an audio channel with Splitter, set up Geist to receive from splitter.

Set the Logic cycle point to the area of the track I want to capture, so that only this area plays. Set the Geist sampler to "Host" mode so that the sampler starts and stops with the Logic transport. Set the recording source to splitter, arm and hit play for one loop. Stop. You now have the audio between cycle points in Geist, ready to slice.

Peace,
Andy.

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pdxindy - Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:45 am

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If you have a loop, just import it into Geist straight to the slicer...

regarding the slicer, the 16 slice limit is the weak point of Geist. FXPansion is not very communicative or really expressing understanding of the value of being able to send slices across engines. They do say it is on the feature list.

You can manually slice and send the first 16 to engine 1 and then repeat and send the next 16 to engine 2...

I do not often extract more than 16 sounds from a sample/loop so it is only a tiny frustration for me. Even though Ableton Live can do more than 16 automatically, I still would use Geist cause though it is more work initially, I like the workflow much better in Geist for subsequent tweaking. I really like the effects in Geist too...

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jontah - Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:55 am

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yeah this works, but what I am looking for is a technique to simply find a good sample spot to use, something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toljny3CGo4 @ 3.10, look what he is doing, he is simply "finding" a good spot of a sample that he can use. I was thinking that IF this was possible within Geist, I don't have to open up Ableton while in Logic to do this. Because I logic in order to edit THAT slice, you'll have to make a separate bounce to lets say reverse it.

I was interested if this was possible directly in Geist, because then I would have an all-in-one package, just by using Geist! At the moment it seems that Kontakt5 is better at this than Geist is, because in Kontakt this is possible.. but I want to use geist

I really love Ableton too, but I want to use Logic.. Logic's mixer and all that feels so much more solid for me, eventhough Ableton is quick and easy aswell. I just cant be arsed to open up Ableton all the time, when I need to sample.

I've been thinking about rewiring, just use Ableton as a pure sampler since it's so quick and unique.. but then that would mean I would have to setup a default template that is adjusted for that specific rewiring with Ableton, and also that would really slow down the computer, to keep Ableton up all the time in parallel with Logic, wouldn't it? what's your suggestion on this? I need to find a solution, lols.

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jontah - Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:56 am

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Yeah but lets say I want to resample a bassline or lets say I'm importing a whole break from a track or just the intro and I want to find good loops from that..

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pdxindy - Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:10 am

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I think re-sampling a bassline in Geist is great... I think you can do everything you might want in Geist. It is easy to slice manually when you have longer melodic material...

The thing is, nothing is perfect in every area... Some things Live is better... some things Geist is better... etc... and everyones tasks are a bit different. You have to find what works best for you.

I own Kontakt and I have far more fun in Geist than I ever did in Kontakt. I stopped using it and took it off my machine. I don't use big libraries and Kontakt does not sample... Geist rocks (IMO)

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jontah - Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:39 am

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This is true.

But lets say I want to cut a whole song such as this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1Lf_1y7rYE

and I want to find bits of it to use in Glitch electro-house or something else, how would you do this?

Would you record the whole thing or would you slice it up in Logic first? so it's exactly lets say 1 or 2 beats playing of your favorite parts of the sample?

THIS is what I mean. Since I got the whole sample inside of geist, how do I set a loop and audition the loop I like and want to slice and process?

Anyways, it would be interesting to see what you guys would have done in my case.. I gotta find some good way of doing this

Also, is there any recommendations of what to sample? I find it hard to sound good on any of my samples actually lol, eventhough the actual samples sounds good chopped up, it doesn't sound good when I play it in a pattern (using the song above that I linked).

There's alot of vocals in there, is it recommended to NOT sample the vocals or part of the vocals?

I understand that this piece of software is mainly for beats, but I want to use it like a real sampler, just like MPC or Maschine or any other sampler.

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ZenPunkHippy - Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:59 am

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Step by step ...

1. Load the long loop in to a pad
2. Go to the Pad/Layers page
- the file is displayed in the wave view
3. Use the yellow markers to define a loop
- click the pad to audition the current loop
- find the loop you want to slice
4. The pad now contains a huge sample, but is limited to the short loop
5. Open Sampler mode
6. Settings:

- trigger mode: Immediate
- source: Resample master
7. Click the Arm button
- recording begins because "Immediate" mode is active
8. Trigger the pad once
- the short loop is recorded in to the sampler
9. Stop recording
10. The yellow loop indicators are now visible in the sampler view
- use these to further refine the loop if necessary
11. Slice it how you want it

Job done.

Peace,
Andy.

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jontah - Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:13 pm

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wow that's EXACTLY what I meant! Thanks alot for this Andy!

What I'm wondering though, is.. can I snap the loop markers to some kind of grid or bar?

And, can I lock it so I can just move it around freely, trying new places where it might fit better? this was what I meant, in the end I finally could explain it, I hope? lol. I did define a loop, but how do I move that loop around without having to re-set the loop the whole time? you get my point? in Ableton Live you can just move a prefectly quantized loop around and try different bits and audition them.

Also, can I quantize or warp or anything like that in Geist? that would be awsome (I don't expect geist to have this feature) hehe.

Thanks for all the help so far! really helped. Hoping for the loop brackets to be movable

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ZenPunkHippy - Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:20 pm

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To move the loop section: hold own down the Option (Alt) key, click and drag one of the yellow loop markers.

Yes, Geist has time stretching - see the Pads/Layers page, it's disabled by default. Page 54 of the manual.

Don't know about snap to grid, can't find anything in the manual (which is really well written, btw - I would recommend reading it!!!).

Peace,
Andy.

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jontah - Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:23 pm

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wow you really helped me out here, THANKS A MILLION! learned so much from you in just a few minutes!!

Again huge thanks, this will be so much fun now! I'll definately read through the manual. Amazing stuff!!! This was exactly what I was looking for!!

The last thing I wonder is if there's a stop button? I know by pressing spacebar and then space again the audio stops since it's synced with the DAW. and also the "stop preview" button. But what if I want to stop all of the audio from geist? is there any command or button for this? as well as the start button.

lets say I import a whole song (like I did in the example you described for me), and I press one of the pads. It won't ever stop playing, unless I clear the pad. hehe. really annoying!

NEXT: digging into the users manual!

Andy, you're the man! Really made my evening.

EDIT: Never mind! I found the Panic button now! phew, finally! but is there any short command for play and stop? or do I have to map it to some hardware in MIDI learn?

The only thing I'm lacking now is that when my loopmarkers are set, I want the start and end point to be set at those points aswell, and start looping so I can just move it around while it's looping. What is REALLY irritating is that the loop markers aren't locked to the start and end points in any way. Lets say I want to loop from the start to the very end (which you want if you are searching for goods spots to sample), I cannot move them both at the same time, I have to set them up manually each time I move, really annoying. Or do you know any way of doing this?

Also, how do I get a loop going when I have set up the markers? hehe. I want it to continue looping when I press, lets say pad #1. The idea is to get the song to loop all the time and just move the markers around so I can find a good spot, without stopping.

btw, love alchemy, such an underrated synth!

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jontah - Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:24 am

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Cant find this Last shit in the manual , sigh... This is exactly Why I love tutorials..

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ZenPunkHippy - Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:48 am

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Video tutorials are useful for a quick overview, but they can't cover all the nitty gritty details.

Anyway - when auditioning possible loop points I would set up a looped region in Logic to trigger the pad. You can map a CC number (or possibly a MIDI note) to the panic button, so a looping region with the pad note + panic CC/note just before the Logic loop point is reached would work.

I don't think it's possible to adjust the loop markers in real time.

Peace,
Andy.

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jontah - Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:07 am

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Great stuff! thanks. But how do I get it to loop constantly? otherwise I have to click the pad all the time to restart the loop for playing. really annoying (since it's often 1 beat or 2 beats loop only"

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ZenPunkHippy - Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:34 am

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Set up a Logic MIDI region to trigger the pad for you ... then run the transport in a loop ... that was the main point of my post. I don't know another way to do this, aside from using a MIDI keyboard or drum pad (which would be my choice).

Peace,
Andy.

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jontah - Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:25 pm

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I didn't quite get what you meant, but got the point when I got the reply on FXpansion's forum! great stuff right here, if you guys want to check it out, to get some troubleshooting for Geist, here it is:

http://www.fxpansion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79213&highlight=geist+video#79213

and I got a video in there aswell, got 4 little questions that still is pending there, need answers of those, so if anyone of you knows the answers, please share! love this thing so much already.

Thanks for all great responses so far!

Geist is a great product!

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lightsfadelow - Fri May 04, 2012 10:22 pm

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I know the OP has already answered his question... but for anyone else who is wondering: I find Geist and Tremor to be very different beasts and very complimentary. Tonight I released a new track with a beat made entirely from Geist. I loved the power to essentially remake any loop in my large collection, break it up into sub-outs so I can control the sound of each hit differently, and make something truly unique from several different sources. Here's the outcome:

http://lightsfadelow.com/track/hurricane

For contrast, my last track was written completely around Tremor. It was a joy to pull in different sounds from different kits and map them against whatever pattern I wanted and then tweak the parameters to my needs. Because the kicks in synthesized drums tend to have a pitch, I even automated it to follow the chords of the songs. This track, as you can hear, has a totally different vibe because of Tremor's unique qualities:

http://lightsfadelow.com/track/small

I think these two tracks are a great illustration of the sonic differences between the two products.

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PraxisCat - Sat May 05, 2012 11:08 pm

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lights I agree with you they are different beasts. I was at a similar point to the OP, and I chose tremor. I went with tremor myself because it just reflects the music I do better. I don't do very beat driven music, and while Geist is great, tremor works for me much better. Sampling has a place, just not in my beats.

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There are 65 posts in this topic.