KVR :: Instruments » What soft synth do you prefer over the virus? [View Original Topic]
There are 100 posts in this topic.

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mikedw - Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:05 am

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What soft synth do you prefer over the virus?

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Doug1978 - Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:11 am

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Most Virusy soft-synth for me (and probably plenty of other people) is Sylenth. I prefer buying this than a more expensive Virus synth.

But the software (commercial) synth which I prefer over a Virus or any other synth for that matter is Aalto - it's brilliant.

And the free synth that I prefer over buying a Virus is Antopya, which is great fun for dubby space-out sounds (although if someone crazily gave me a Virus synth it would be admittedly a bit better than Antopya).

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EvilDragon - Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:11 am

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Pretty much any.


Zebra 2, Largo, OP-X Pro II, OLGA, PPG 3.V, VAZ Modular...

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electro - Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:19 am

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Yeah, as long as you stay soft the virus will never be a concern

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Restless - Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:35 am

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I prefer the sound of Diva to my Virus TI. IN fact, I find it very hard to tolerate the virus after playing Diva.

I don't get this from any other soft synth that I own or have demoed.

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Francisco Cepero - Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:43 am

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Any software synth, even a crummy one built with Synthedit or Synthmaker, over any overhyped, overpriced hardware unit.

I have a Roland PMA-5 and a keyboard I bought at Radio Shack for 2 Ben Franklins or so, and I really haven't missed them for years since I discovered VST instruments.

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cryophonik - Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:13 am

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Oh geez, is it time for the weekly " I hate the Virus, software is better " thread already? I could've sworn we still had a few more days.

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tehlord - Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:16 am

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I plantz teh seedz and watches them growz

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sabiwa - Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:23 am

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What the hell is virus? Ages ago there was similiar name Access synth I used to play with my Steinberg Neon (which by the way owned the poor bastard)

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Fred_Abstract - Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:10 pm

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the good thing about the virus is that it save you cpu cycle.
if you want to get the same sound as the virus or even better with softsynth you need processing to get the sound more organic and meaty and it can take lot of cpu.

at sounding like a virus the virus is the best option but you can get as good sound with any decent softsynth from zebra to sylenth and a fast cpu to use quality processing and fx

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Richard_Synapse - Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:14 am

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With DAW freeze getting more popular (I'm working on an efficient algorithm for Orion too), I think the overall plugin CPU usage is less of an issue. Basically you click a button and the CPU drops to 0

Multi-threaded plugins are likely going to get more popular and will further lower the computational demand as well.

Richard

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nix808 - Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:39 am

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That'd be very nice Rich,
generally I end up having to render stuff out.
(My home-brew VSTi & fx are costly)
That would do a great deal for utility.
No-one else will ever sound exactly like a Virus though,
as Dune has it's own sound too.
I gotta just make some music and get Dune,
instead of tinkering with plugs maybe.
Maybe I do both
edit- Virus never really blew my socks off, I like it, but like I say, I've been trying to develop my own instead of pushing the capabilities mine have. I say try it. It could well be software. If it was- it would still be a killer synth

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Teksonik - Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:49 am

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It's better than the "Nothing sounds like a Virus" threads that seriously make me want to go on a killing spree.....

But the Virus is a softsynth so.............

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liquid wind - Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:21 am

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This, it'd be better if there just weren't so many conversations that revolve around every other synth trying to live up to the Virus. Nothing is very good if you expect it to be something it's not, if you like Virus then...get a Virus. You're selling other synths short and probably missing out if you have that preconceived paragon of what they all should sound like though

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nix808 - Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:23 am

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Wouldn't the Virus style controller go down a treat though?
Instead of any knob, u have the synth laid out already?

grr, come on which die-hard Virusist is gonna step in?
I've been trying to keep up the end--but

virus is a cool synth, but there r a few good ones

hehe,
prolly u could give me any dulcet synth and I would make it sound 4-bit

At one point I approached Access to see if I could sample their wavetables-It's a no

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Teksonik - Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:59 am

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By "you" I assume you mean everyone else....... By the way I have no desire to own a Virus.......

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zlatan - Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:37 am

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Sold my TI2 last week.
I keep my vintage analogs for the real sound and got
Diva , Zebra, Dune, Dcam, Synplant and Sylenth to replace the TI2.

Now I feel like I have a much broader palette to work with AND still have money left
for something else....

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PHassan - Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:05 am

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How come you guys are not tired answering these Virus questions over and over again? Seriously...

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VitaminD - Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:30 am

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The only thing that really makes the Virus appeal to me is the tons of themed genre patches available for it.. great for getting a starting run on a production. Most places either give away for free or charge little.

Vs. what happens with say.. Zebra patchbanks which tend to cost around quarter to half of the price of the actual synth

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liquid wind - Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:57 am

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Yep, speaking generally. Lots of great synths, people should just appreciate them on their own merits

Virus is good

Z3ta is good, Zebra is good, Harmor is good, Omnisphere is good, Sylenth1 is good, Diva will be ****ing amazing in 10 years when I have a good enough computer...

It's allll good

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hakey - Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:26 am

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Hmm, that's just not true.

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Mutant - Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:54 pm

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Synth1

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C-note - Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:02 pm

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I kept my Virus for a few weeks after buying Sylenth, then sold it an never looked back. Don't even have the slightest inclination to buy another Virus.

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Kriminal - Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:09 pm

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almost any soft synth

they are cheaper
they have more options
you can load 50 instances at the same time at no extra cost

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4damind - Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:36 pm

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It's also a bit the question about the Virus model. I can replace my Virus XL easier than I would expect from a Virus TI.
But Sylenth, Z3ta playing very nice in this direction... Also the new Sonic Academy "Ana".
IMO there are a lot softies this days (Dune, Zebra, Massive, Gladiator,...) making a Access Virus sometimes redundant and all few month a new and better synth is released or announced

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VitaminD - Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:19 pm

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It is true.


The average price is $38

38/150 = .253 or just over 25%

your own pack is 39 dollars.


The 3rd party EDM sets are closer to 80 dollars each!

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4damind - Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:26 pm

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Btw... Afaik the price of Zebra2 is $236 (193€) VAT included)?

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hakey - Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:37 pm

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Most banks on the u-he site are $20 to $40 - going by your calculus that would make Zebra $80, which it aint.


And 3ee's bank is just $4!


(The few banks I've made available are all free.)

And of course, there are loads of free Zebra banks and patches - not to say that the factory bank gets bigger with each new Zebra release.

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pdxindy - Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:52 pm

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Did you factor in all the free banks?

There are a few thousand free presets...

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VitaminD - Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:21 pm

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The cost of Zebra is $150 USD

and 25% of 150 is 37.5 or just at the 25% I mentioned in my original post.

The upper end of the quoted comment was 50% which is around the price of the Oldschool and the EDM compilations I mentioned.

So 25-50%.


Most of the free banks aren't genre specific. And generally are free for reason.

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Doug B - Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:52 pm

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How did you figure that? It says right on the web site that the price is $199.
($150 with the dinosaur discount.

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hakey - Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:53 pm

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But there are a number of banks on the u-he site that are cheaper...

And you choose the one bank - Oldskool - that was considerably more than all of the others (what should really have been discarded as a statistical outlier) as your upper bound but, rather than the lowest price, you used the average price as your lower bound.

Highest (outlier) = upper bound, Average(not Lowest) = lower bound

It rather looks as though you're cherry picking the data to make your point.

Lies, damned lies and statistics!

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digitalbeatsyndrome - Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:04 pm

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Alchemy, I hear Zebra is a beast too.

Alchemy not just cause it has a library sampled from the virus, but cause VA rocks... dont forget the virus has great DA conversion...

Alchemy Modulation routing is endless.

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VitaminD - Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:05 pm

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I already told you I averaged the price to get 38... if you don't believe me, I welcome you to average them yourself.

And even on the lower end of the spectrum (the lone (as in only) bank priced at 25 dollars) is still 17%. The majority of them are between 30 and 40 bucks.. I wouldn't have posted unless I had checked this stuff first

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hakey - Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:13 pm

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That's not what I was getting at.

If you're going to use the highest price as your upper bound, you should use the lowest price as the lower bound, not the average!

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VitaminD - Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:34 pm

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I did use it as the lowest bound. re-read.

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pdxindy - Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:46 pm

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There are at least 3-4 banks under $20... You did not check very thoroughly

Let's see... Forever 80's is $10.99
Annihilation Dubstep and DnB is $16.95

and the new Winter soundset is currently under $5


and you entirely ignored the dozens of soundsets that are free

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VitaminD - Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:39 pm

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The average is taken from the U-he website.

My posts seem to be missing sentences for certain people who dislike what I say. I did not ignore the soundsets that are free - I mentioned them politely in a post above.


Even if we add those outside of it to the running average, the price is still within the range I stated.

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pdxindy - Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:44 pm

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I don't dislike what you say... what you say is factually incorrect. So I corrected it. You claimed that the cheapest soundset is $25... That is a false statement and I demonstrated it as such... Perhaps you can just admit you were wrong rather than throwing up some smokescreen about people not liking what you are saying!


I also think your general statement is misleading and is cherry picking data to fit your conclusion.

You mention the tons of Virus presets that are free or for little charge and then compare that to the more expensive Zebra soundsets. You can find lots of Virus soundsets that cost in the same range as the more costly Zebra soundsets. I just found a website that sells Virus Ti soundsets and has 8 available for an average price of $39. Hmmm, sound familiar?

You can also find dozens of Zebra soundsets that are free or cheap. You can download like 4000 Zebra presets that are free... with more showing up all the time...

There, your basic argument that you have to pay a lot of money to get Zebra presets when you don't have to with a Virus is debunked.

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digitalboytn - Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:59 pm

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[quote="digitalbeatsyndrome"]Dont forget the virus has great DA conversion...

quote]

But not nearly as good as the D/A convertors on the latest audio interfaces...

The quality of the convertors on the TC Impact Twin blew my sox off...

So I replaced a couple of ProFire 2626's with 4 x TC Impact Twins...

Modular versatility

What soft synth would I use instead of a Virus ?

well it could be any of these really...

Zebra,Diva,ACE,Z3TA+2,Rapture or even Dimension Pro....

Much more versatility and flexibility...

It's a no brainer really

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VitaminD - Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:18 pm

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Give me a break. The cheapest bank on the u-he website IS $25. That is where I got that figure.



You are missing my point and are cherry picking your own to suit your argument against me.

If you disagree, you have every right and I won't stop you. I hope you can agree however that what I've pointed out is fact. I mean just go add up the costs of each zebra commercial bank on their site and divide by the cost of the synth using it. I didn't make up numbers, they are all available on the interwebs. And since we are both on the interwebs, nothing is being hidden. You are free to even include the ones you listed, as long as you include the 62 and the 84 dollar ones I mentioned.

But, Yes, I'm sure there are 40 dollar TI banks. However, Considering all the free, themed ones available (Access releases them on their own website! 15 pages worth of themed sounds, many from commercial artists), you really would not need them. Besides, $39/$1300 = 3% of value of the synth.

The Virus has a huge userbase of commercial artists releasing sounds too. Not the case with Zebra or most softsynths at this point.

To make it fair.. the Virus bank would have to cost $208 to match even the cheapest one on the u-he site.

I don't want 4000 crappy patches suited for 60's sci fi soundtracks. This is the point of paying money for presets.. to get a quality set geared for a specific style of music (or at least the style one buying them wants to make) designed by someone who truly knows what they are doing.

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pdxindy - Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:37 pm

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Give you a break?? You are wrong. The cheapest one is currently $5. It is on the u-he website. Here is the damn link

http://www.u-he.com/PatchLib/commercial.html

Top soundset called Winter - current introductory price $4.41

There are at least 3 others on the page that are under $20. I already named them but would you ever just listen and admit you are wrong? no of course not... which makes it a total waste of time to try to converse with you.

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GeorgeZ - Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:47 pm

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My sentiment exactly!

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xamido - Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:21 pm

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I'm bored with Virus vs everything. In my ear virus is superior than any other softsynth i've ever had. End of the case. Why can't people just accept personal taste?

Not to go OOT much, the closest for me is sylenth. Lennard is a lazy genius!!

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CT - Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:33 pm

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What's the world coming to?

A brilliant synth like the nord modular G2 gets discontinued, but the overhyped, overpriced virus remains as popular as ever. Seriously, if the modular was re-launched, I would be all over it in 5 minutes.

Sold the virus, and never looked back. Im not interested in another virus, and dont think I will be unless the TI3 (or whatever comes next) is markedly different from the current crop of totally unintegrated viruses. In fact, I think I was plain stupid for buying it, but luckily recovered most of my money cause I found a sucker (who thought its the best thing ever) to buy it from me for a great price. Though I must clarify that the virus is not terrible or even bad. Its just about ok in my book.

Since then I have bought Zebra, dune, dcam, and ace, in addition to the few soft synths I had before, and feel I have much greater flexibility and power at a fraction of the cost.

And seriously, I dont get why theres a thread every week comparing soft synths to this overhyped, overpriced bullsh*t. Surely, ppl can pick something better to compare with.

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4damind - Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:18 am

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This is the price with VAT for European customers (without the $50 dinosaur discount). So it's the regular price for Zebra in Europe. The price will be shown on the last page when ordering (share-it)

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hakey - Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:08 am

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I have re-read and no you didn't.

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hakey - Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:16 am

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Yes, and that's the point! Arguments like yours that are based upon cherry picked data are weak arguments.

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mikedw - Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:50 am

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[quote="digitalboytn"]

And sound quality ?

I think no soft synth sounds better than the virus that is why people buy it.
It has that unique virus sound.

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jobromedia - Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:06 am

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I personally wouldn't hesitate even a picosecond to get a Virus TI2 if I had the cash. Soundwise and presetwise it is top of the notch. Nuff said. But until I got the cash then I'm still using Zebra / Omnisphere / z3ta+ / Nexus that I've already bought, know how to program to get the sounds I want, and love to use.

Freeware I'd say that ZynAddSubFx gets the best Virusish sound.

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osiris - Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:00 am

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ZynAddSubFx is the best abandoned VST evah.
Don't forget the poor, buggy Klangformer - oh what could have been...

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maclean - Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:23 am

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To answer the OPs question I find the likes of V-station although nothing fancy, still excellent for bread and butter bass and lead sounds.

Ultra analog/sylenth1 for a bit more than bread and butter bass, leads, background chords.

Massive is great for doing more experemental dubstep/drum and bass digital bit crushed f**ked up crazy sounds.

Pads, warm bassy trance chord plucks, 'liquid like' sounds with lots of filter movement, will be done by the virus as i've not came accross a soft synth that handles these things as well..

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VitaminD - Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:50 am

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ah I was looking at this page http://www.u-he.com/cms/zebra2-patch-banks I didn't even see the one you posted anywhere on the site.


However, I already addressed the others in a response above. But I'll address it again.. even if you take into account the 5 dollar bank and the 11 dollar one and the 16 dollar one along with the others not on that page the average is still within the spread I stated initially. Of course I'm not going to admit I'm wrong - because I'm not in this situation!

You're basing your argument against mine on a handful of dirt cheap banks.. when I'm looking at the overall.. the average. I never stated ALL. And you can't point out one or two and say 'they are ALL cheap' you have to look at the bigger picture. the average. As I have been this whole time. My position has never swayed. I'm afraid I can't help you if you aren't willing to accept this.

Besides much of those cheap banks aren't within the range of genre specific which was in my initial statements.. and how many commercial artists are releasing Zebra banks in the genre in which they produce?

Access Music has a purposely built community side to their products.. that includes releasing these genre defined banks periodically.. it is part of their business model. They do a good job at it imo.. I seems as if it is one of the ways they address the initial cost of their synths! You get something that is supposed to just work. Similar to Apple's scheme.

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hakey - Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:44 am

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I was bored so I had a closer look at the figures.

The average price for all the Zebra banks listed at the patchlib is $32.7

By far the most common price is $30, with 7 banks at that price (and 3 banks at $39, 2 at $20 and 2 at $24).

Two thirds of the banks lie in the range from $19 to $40. Plot the prices as a frequency distribution and there is an obvious bunching of prices centred around $30. The three banks above $60 look like statistical outliers.

So it would seem reasonable to call $20 to $40 the common or usual price range, which would mean that Zebra would need to cost $80 for VitaminD's calculation to work. But it doesn't - it costs nearly twice that.

Also, looking at the prices for these Virus banks there seems to be a very similar range and frequency distribution, with $30 being the most common bank price and a few expensive banks above the $50 mark.

There really is very little in any comparison between Virus and Zebra bank prices.

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VitaminD - Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:03 am

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You keep mentioning 80 dollars. where are you getting that?

If we even use your numbers, 25% of $150 (which is what Zebra cost) is $37.50. That is in your own range of $20-$40.

About the Virus banks.. you are making part of my argument in your last post. We can even accept your false price of $80 for Zebra vs the soundbank price and that point I'm making still holds firm. I don't know what else to say to help you understand. I truly don't.

Because, more importantly, it appears my main points are being missed.. the same ones that I keep making.. and you keep countering by avoiding them and picking the parts that you want to address. Which is entirely different from what I'm getting at. So this is going no where.. I don't believe you'll ever see what I'm saying. Perhaps it is partly my fault.. maybe I'm not 'verbalizing' them fully.. or perhaps you just don't want to agree.

I get the feeling you have a chip on your shoulder and you simply want to be disagreeable with me.

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zerocrossing - Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:10 am

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This more or less describes me though it was a while ago and the TI2 didn't exist yet, so it was a C and only Zebra and Sylenth were available at the time. Since then I added some analogs and I have to admit none of the software including Diva is totally there yet but it's still useful. Click a button and you've got a Minimoog osc section and a Jupiter filter? Not a trick done in hardware, that's for sure.

Still, a Virus doesn't eat CPU cycles like Diva does, but on the other hand, you could buy a new computer for the price of one. Great instrument, but probably doomed to extinction like most VA hardware.

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jacqueslacouth - Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:29 am

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Boring Maths debate alert!!! Going on far too long and hijacking the thread...FFS LET IT GO Guys! It really doesn't matter that much.

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VitaminD - Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:36 am

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I wonder where they will go with it. TI3? Additional DSP.. How many more oscillators, filters, effects, etc does one need?

I think the Snow is based off of the original TI with one processor. So about half the power of a desktop TI. Then there is TI2 with even more power but the same feature set.

They seem to be running out of ideas on how to sculpt this product. Or are at least milking every drop out of it slowly.. I wonder what is the game plan..


Then again, We are still using recreations of hardware synths made 2 and 3 decades ago. hmm.. one day it will be retro.

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VitaminD - Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:42 am

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roger that, loud and clear.

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cryophonik - Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:48 am

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And, what do you think will replace hardware VAs? Are musicians who demand quality instruments all going to devolve into "producers" who sit on their fat asses making music with a mouse. Or, are companies all going to see the light and realize that VAs suck and all go back to making analog synths? Something else?



Amen, brother. But wait, what if we calculated the harmonic mean of the number of presets per unit cost???

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ZenPunkHippy - Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:53 am

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Not quite true ... a fully specced Studio Electronics Omega 8 includes various classic analogue filter designs:

http://www.studioelectronics.com/products/synths/omega8/

Not exactly cheap, though

Peace,
Andy.

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hakey - Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:08 am

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No chip - politely disagreeing and being disagreeable are not the same. Your analysis was, imho, wrong. That is all.


Boring whinging post alert!!! Complaining about a discussion that does not affect you in any way....FFS LET IT GO Jacques! It really doesn't matter that much.

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pdxindy - Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:25 am

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exactly... two of his claims are demonstrably wrong and he still will not admit it... you may as well talk to the wall as that kind of mind.

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zerocrossing - Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:41 am

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Fixed that for you. IMO, software synths have already replaced VA hardware. You're just late to the game. Go to the Access site. Listen to their demos. Now go here: http://www.kv331audio.com/ Listen to the demos. I really don't hear a damn difference, and I didn't when I had a C in my studio either, and I never missed it one bit. Yeah, there are feature differences, but I just participated in a TI v Diva thread on another forum and it was pretty clear that Diva's filter sounded just as good even at high resonance. In some ways, better.



Something else. The myth/stereotype of the laptop musician as someone who sits behind a monitor clicking away is dead. Is that all you got? So a performance where there's a laptop on stage is different than a TI on stage... how? Don't say knobs, because knobs are for chumps who can't play a keyboard. assign parameters to real controllers like aftertouch and expression like a man! OK, I kid, but there's truth in that jibe. I could easily set up a system that an audience would have no idea was coming from a computer.

Oh yeah, and my ass isn't fat.

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cryophonik - Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:37 pm

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Oh please. Seriously? You can't comprehend that there are pros and cons to both software and hardware? You can only equate "sound" and THAT's what's going to drive hardware into extinction? Fair enough, stick with that and consider yourself the winner of the software/hardware debate. Meanwhile, the hardware VA market is still alive and kicking.



What game? The software > hardware game?



I don't need to. I already own a Virus TI2 keyboard and have owned numerous other Viruses, and countless analog and non-analog synths since the late 70s.



Maybe you should click on my first link below and look at the long list of software synths that I own and use every day. Guess what? They're great. Each one of in their own way. In fact, not one of them replaces another IMO, they just do things differently and each of them have their own pros and cons, yeah, sorta like hardware. But, they also require me to have my computer running and none of them have a nice Fatar keybed that I love so much, or weighted keys, or the ability for me to perform on in a live setting, etc. And, none of them are my Virus or my PC3X. And, as long as there are musicians like myself, there will be a demand for hardware instruments because sound is not the only thing that matters to most musicians.

Bass is actually my primary instrument and I own several fine basses. I also own and use Trilian and numerous bass libraries for Kontakt, yet they haven't replaced my basses. Hmmmmm....

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Kriminal - Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:40 pm

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filters, yes, but you cant mix osc/filters/envs tho

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SadPuppyBlues - Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:25 pm

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I agree there'll be a demand for hardware as long as there are musicians. The point you seem to be missing: that piece of hardware can be a nice fatar keybed that doesn't cost a premium because it's packed with a softsynth.

Anyway, this isn't an argument about hardware instruments being a permanent fixture in music, but one about hardware softsynths being permanent. They're done.

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cryophonik - Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:41 pm

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No, I'm not missing that point. I'm well aware of exactly what a hardware VA synth is and isn't. I'm also well aware that people have been proclaiming the death of hardware VAs for a long time now, but every year, new hardware VAs hit the market. Anyway, you guys can keep making these proclamations if it makes you feel validated and be sure to dig up this post when the demise of the final hardware VA is announced. Until then, enjoy your software > hardware debate. I'll enjoy making music with both.

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SadPuppyBlues - Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:14 pm

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Funny jokes. Anyway, there's no need for us to be hostile with each other because you can't back up:



Okay, people still buy hardware VAs. People still buy LucasFilm/LucasArts products. People still buy U2 albums. You're still eating crow right now. It's cool. It happens to everyone at some point.

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cryophonik - Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:37 pm

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Yes, people who like that things that you don't and have been successful doing it will eat crow. Your logic is solid.



Have a nice day.

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pdxindy - Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:43 pm

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I use a Korg Z1 as my midi controller keyboard. Sometimes when someone is over I will show them my set-up, play some sounds etc. They often exclaim how good the Korg Z1 sounds, not knowing that I am playing soft synths. I can change presets, have the modwheel, XY pad, expression pedal and AT and 5 performance knobs at hand without touching the computer. Someone watching would have no idea that they are hearing softsynths by my activity.

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zerocrossing - Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:52 pm

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Oh right, thanks for re-igniting my G.A.S. for that baby. God that thing sound dreamy too. I swear one day I'll own one...

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aciddose - Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:53 pm

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than the filters in the virus? oh man diva must suck hard.

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SadPuppyBlues - Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:58 pm

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Haha, so to paraphrase you, real musicians who use hardware VAs will be replaced by fat laziness because people are successful at liking things I don't. Fanboy logic.

You haven't made an actual argument because you can't, so instead of backing up what you said, you revert to goalpost shifting and attempting to make something personal out of it.

You have a nice day.

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zerocrossing - Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:13 pm

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Right, my point exactly, though the Z1 sounds good too, I'm sure.

I'm not against hardware and if you prefer it, have at it. I can see the benefit of working sans computer as it used to be my main way of performing. I used to have a really hard time hauling all my crap around too.

I recently thought it might be nice to have some sort of digital synth in my studio. My first thought was the Roland V-Synth... until I couldn't find a single example that made me love the sound. I went and listened to a lot of different hardware synths. Kawai k5000s, Kurzweils, Rolands, Nords, Virus, etc. The only one that actually made me want it was the Nords. The Lead 2x and the Wave.... but not enough to spend the money and waste the space.

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cryophonik - Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:14 pm

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No, not even close. Why don't you go back and re-read the thread?



I don't have an argument, nor do I have anything to back up. The other guy (and you) stated that hardware VAs will soon be "extinct". That is HIS and YOUR argument, not mine. I asked him to back that up by answering some questions about what actual musicians who use hardware VAs will do without them? The fact that hardware VAs are still available and, in many cases, selling very well indicates that they are not going extinct any time soon. As stated, I use both hardware and software and see the pros and cons of both. Sorry if I got under your skin by disagreeing with you.

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zerocrossing - Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:01 pm

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Why do I always have to be the other guy?

But I've considered my statement and "extinct" isn't really a good description of what I think. I just think VA is evolving into something that doesn't need a specific hardware configuration. Sure, they'll always be the musicians who just want a hardware synth, but you keep claiming that people like Access are selling their synths like hotcakes, and I wonder where you get that data. I'm no longer in music retail, but when I was hardware VA was important because no PC computer could really do it natively. Now even a cheap off the shelf Dell is capable of a lot. Definitely capable of a similar quality of sound. I can't imagine that a huge part of their market (like me) has gone away.

I also see a lot of "what sounds like a Virus?" threads like this which says only one thing: people are actively looking for alternatives.

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jobromedia - Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:22 pm

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People are looking for alternatives because the Virus itself is overpriced. I saw a Virus softsynth during the xmas sale for 500 SEK. The reason why I didn't buy it was because it required some overpriced hardware.

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cryophonik - Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:59 pm

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To be clear, I never said that they're selling like hotcakes, but I don't think anybody needs me to tell you that there is a strong market for these synths; otherwise, they WOULD be extinct, new ones wouldn't be brought to market so regularly, and you wouldn't see them on the web, in studios, on stages, etc. Access is about to release a new OS for free that will add several new features. That's certainly not evidence that they are about to go under in my book.



No disagreements here. The problem with too many producers is that they fail to see that not everybody shares their values, has the same needs, same income, etc. I see a lot of people complaining that the Virus is "overpriced." For them, that's probably true, but that doesn't mean that it applies to everybody else. Like many people, I think that the Virus a value considering its specs, frequent updates, and quality, and it's something that holds much of its value. Hell, I've sold most of the Viruses that I purchased secondhand for more than I paid for them, so that's not overpriced AFAIC.

Also, I should just state for the record, that I am NOT one of the people who claims that the Virus has some magic sound that can't be replicated very well (or close enough) with other synths, software or hardware. I don't know about most people, but my Virus makes a LOT of sounds, not *one* sound. Yeah, like all synths, it has some characteristics that comes through with some patches better than others, but that doesn't make it superior IMO. Hell, I'll go so far as to say that I can't pick out a Virus in a track, including my own (yes, I've gone back to some of my old productions and discovered that what I thought I had done with a soft synth or analog synth was actually done with my Virus, and vice-versa), nor can I usually pick out analog synths or cheap soft synths in other songs without some degree of guesswork/luck. I'm also convinced that most other people can't either, with the exception of obvious presets, of course.

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SadPuppyBlues - Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:01 am

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Here's where you came in:



Go ahead and like your vintage hardware VA all you want. I'm sure you're amazingly successful at it.

But don't pretend like your opening statement was "I like hardware VA, and it essentially comes down to personal preferences." You make pretty transparent charges here about people who don't feel the need for hardware synths. All because you don't think this thread should exist.

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samsam - Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:20 am

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'Overpriced' is pretty subjective, no?

IMO it's not digital hardware that's dead, it's just the term VA, which seems a bit redundant to me these days. What's wrong with just saying 'digital'?

I've got one analog synth, one digital HW synth and a few soft synths. They're all great. Variety, it's the spice of life.

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aciddose - Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:15 am

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nothing at all. of course the term "va" was never correct in the first place and was made up by some fool to deal with the issue of "digital synthesizer" having a subjective negative connotation and association with effects such as aliasing, generally understood to refer to samplers and other synthesizers not having the typical subtractive structures.

the desire then was to refer to a sort of synthesizer which was digital, but aimed to emulate the properties of an analog system.

the term then took on it's own life as a bastard term referring specifically to attempts at emulating a set of criteria usually based upon certain well known subtractive synthesizers.

let's all use the right term here - software synthesizer - and insert other qualifiers as needed.

the virus is a subtractive software synthesizer.

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ericj23 - Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:27 am

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I agree with the sentiment, but seeing as the virus is also a wavetable synth (and did they add granular stuff in one of the updates or am I making that up) I think the name VA is the problem

The virus has not been a VA or a subtractive software synth for 7 years! It is a very capable synthesis platform that has also been well implemented. Choices about how features are programmed result in differences in sound (otherwise all software synths would sound the same), so in truth their is nothing that sounds exactly like the virus - nothing.

If someone wants to give an example sound or two and ask what can do this I am sure the good people at KVR can provide alternatives, but if you want the virus you need to start saving!

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The Telenator - Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:06 am

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Now, about the thread's question. It's really funny, and I never would have expected this, but my very favorite go-to soft synths are all free ones! And it is less about the money than the sound.

I guess my No.1 has to always be Synth1. Got thousands of presets, got the look and color perfect, and it behaves so well. But the Zynewave Nucleum is a major contender -- beautiful sounds. Love Oatmeal, whether with the newer Legacy Light skin or just the funky old tan look. Love my MinimogueVA and my Arppe2600va. And let's not forget eSLine with those! Then there's always Steinberg's Model-E synth. They were giving that one away free just recently. Anyone still like the rompler ProteusVX? Don't care much for its UI and behavior, but some presets are awesome, with no tweaking required.

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The Telenator - Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:13 am

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Forgot to add, there is nothing that sounds like a handful of other synths, either. Virus is good, but in the end just another good synth. Too many out there to get too worked up about any.

As to that whole bit about VA synth debating, it makes me think about how everyone was saying that the old Moog hardware synths were all destined for the dumpster, yet now they are back and the hippest of must-have keyboards for live performance. Everything comes back, you know, whether from quality or simply nostalgia.

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Nimrod7 - Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:54 am

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I have a Virus TI in my studio, but don't using it any more.

I create most of my sounds with Synth Squad, or Diva.

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trimph1 - Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:19 am

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It really does not matter which synth you use. As long as you like what it does.

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nix808 - Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:24 am

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+1
I hope u do
we r spoiled 4 choice

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zerocrossing - Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:18 am

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I won't make any statement based on Access sales because I honestly have no real information about it. Just my own experience and I'm a guy who likes to have blinky boxes all around him, pretty much at all times.

Exhibit A, you're honor:



and that's a long time ago! Doesn't even show the DX200, ATC-1, Slim Phatty and Prophet '08 I've since added, but that was when I was doing a mostly software schtick.

So, as I started adding back hardware (old hardware VA sold because I thought I was loosing my studio space) the Virus didn't make the cut. Oddly, a Roland ROMpler, the SonicCell (FantomX in a weird desktop box) made it in because.. I missed the sounds of my XV-5050 and there were times I ran out of CPU on my old laptop. But anyway, it was cheap. I think I paid $500 for it. So if I could get a TI Snow in that range I might go for it, but $1,300 just seems ludicrously expensive. Not that I can't afford it, I just don't feel it's worth that much. Of course, that's my opinion.




Well, you're right, I can't argue that Access wouldn't be around if they charged more than people are willing to pay for their instruments... but I have a sinking feeling that it's more because in the trance world lots of people feel you have to have a Virus. Nothing else will do. Also, a lot of people still feel like a computer is "nerdy" to use in a live situation. Even you made a slight against the "fat-ass producers." Also people who never took the time to optimize their computer set up and feel it's too unstable.



Right, that's exactly what I'm talking about. So, if Access can't make a synth that's recognizable in a mix and the current trend is people are doing more Skrillexesque performances using Live and some Akai controllers.



That's the future my friend, like it or not. I don't like it either, hell, I'd love to see a live Triceratops, but I just don't see a place in the future for a multi thousand dollar hardware synth that even you can't pick out of a mix.

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Kaboom75 - Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:45 pm

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Virus Ti & Korg Radias was my dream synths till U-HE messed up the dream.

Only synths that beat the Virus is Zebra and Diva.
Diva is more close to analog and more magic about it but not got the same features as the virus but I would rather use Diva with Soundtoys plugs than the Virus.

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mkdr - Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:14 pm

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That my friend is a decade old trend by now...
And what i understood that dude is doing dj gigs?




Oh and i have to add
I've used only softsynths since 1994!!

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mbncp - Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:30 am

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I wouldn't mind a multi-timbral Diva in a box similar to my TI2 Polar or maybe a little bigger and more knobs.

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The Telenator - Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:22 am

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I really wasn't aware that there were any soft synths back in '94. Do you recall the name of any you used then? I was still running away from anything digital back then!

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aciddose - Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:14 am

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you're kidding right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8JPSeoAXAM

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zerocrossing - Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:47 am

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Oh, you only have to go into Guitar Center every now and then to know that truth. I didn't say that but yeah, the DJ trend actually a trend that goes a lot further back than 10 years, though computers wen't involved. What I was talking about is the trend for DJs to also be the people who compose and produce the music they're DJing.

I did try it once. After a gig where a fellow musician/instrumentalist and I performed at a down-tempo rave, we noticed how much attention the DJs that came on after us were getting as we packed up our gear. It was pretty clear that the audience (who responded well to us) was just as happy having people come up and play CDs. I thought of all the time I had just spent shlepping gear around and the fact that I had to leave because there was no where for me to store my stuff after our set, yet the guys who brought in a CD wallet were getting just as good a response from the audience and were free to spend the night and party as long as they wanted.

So, I started making loops of my own music and put together a set in Live. I hated it. The people at the party liked it fine, but I hated doing it. It felt... like karaoke compared to playing with a real band. Even though I had a small keyboard and I as actually playing soft synths... I just had a hard time getting into it. Anyway, no slight to the people who play Live like an instrument. More power to them. It's just not for me. However, the compact rig was for me. I'd been seeing a friend do a looping/beatbox show with a laptop and mic and I'd been really envious. Well, thanks to VSTis I'm not jealous any more. I'm doing an internet radio gig at the end of March and all I'm bringing is a guitar, Remote 25sl, IK Stealthpedal and a Behringer FCB1010. Would a Virus make my rig any better? I can't imagine it would.

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The Telenator - Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:16 am

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zerocrossing -- that's an interesting story and from your telling I can put myself into that situation. Rock and Pop bands always seemed to require tons of gear back then, even for the smallest venue.

@aciddose -- seriously, no kidding. For myself and other guitarists in those days retro had been happening since Punk Rock in the late '70s, and to at least a small degree it affected all of us. We were all anti- to any of that stuff. You could be shunned in some circles for having any synth at all on your LP. Players would sometimes put a note on the back cover, saying, "No synthesizers were used in the making of this record." And remember, starting just a few years before your '94 date, MIDI was sort of shaky glitchy and digital gear was very limited. My first solid exposure to the digital world was when I bought one of the second generation of Roland Guitar Synth setups, a GR-7 or maybe a 10 -- can't remember the number, but it didn't track very well. That was in roughly '83, and I recall that most settings sounded like a cheesy accordion. With all the hardware other than the few and expensive hardware synths being so primitive, our introduction to all that was a real turn-off. There was also some speculation that the whole thing was just a sort of fad, that it wasn't going to catch on . . . so why invest or learn much? My guitar synth was more of a curiosity -- really just an expensive toy. Good keyboard players were rare and often too broke to own much, even though we all knew about those $5k synths. Oooh! Every keys player dreamt of buying a Prophet synth way back in my teens. Honestly, though, other than the novel albums like Switched-on Bach and Tomita's Snowflakes Are Dancing, for years and years I had no idea what MIDI was for or its advantages. As a guitarist, it was so easy to remain blissfully ignorant of it all.

How things have changed! Here I am, still predominantly a guitarist but poking around the Web to find out and possibly acquire the latest top-rated soft synth. It took me years to get free of my guitar junkie gear addiction and instead I'm hooked on all this stuff. I would have never believed it a mere 15 or more years ago!

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aciddose - Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:11 pm

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maybe in some cases. the dx-7 was the first instrument to have a reasonably full implementation and that was 1983.



that is true... midi was one possible interface. any programmer or typical computer nerd who was also interested in synthesizers would have built their own DAC and software to control it though. i know i did! it doesn't take much effort or expense to produce a dac using either serial or parallel and the tons of chips made exactly for the purpose out there. it actually only costs you about ten bucks to build a parallel port dac capable of audio rates, and in the 90s you even had most software with an option for such a thing already built in!



well, in my experience there are two points that go against that: 1) the latest trend tends to be total crap and this all comes as a revelation to the masses a few years later. 2) nothing is ever more productive than a simple set of gear and a daw. software is best as a multiplier, not as a foundation on it's own.

of course i suppose other people may experience things differently, but i'd find it hard to believe a guitarist would see anything but a guitar and a good preamp as the proper foundation for their work.

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VitaminD - Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:12 pm

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Sounds like the background to an Ed Rush and Optical DNB song..

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vata44 - Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:43 pm

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everything

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cytospur - Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:11 pm

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Synapse Audio's DUNE, backed up by my Novation synths (KS rack, Nova and Xio), and Waldorf Blofeld. I'll probably sell the Nova and Xio though. Any takers?

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