KVR :: Homegrown Sounds » Launchpad: Good controller for Vortex? [View Original Topic]
There are 20 posts in this topic.

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musikmachine - Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:23 pm

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I picked one up a few days ago and i've been checking out the stuff that's avaialable.

Quite a few people have developed apps so it can control other software like Alphapad. http://alphapadstepsequencer.blogspot.com/2010/11/alphapad-english-version.html or nomone.

Seems like a good not-too-expensive solution for sequencing Vortex. What do you think Andy?

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Astralp - Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:57 pm

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Do you know I went to a big music tech shop the other day, I was hoping they'd have one to have a play around with, I don't quite 'get' them. As I understand aren't they locked to Ableton? I'm supposing they use MMC or something similar to communicate with live.

But yep, they look perfect for Vortex if they could be interfaced!

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Astralp - Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:02 pm

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Oh, right it can be mapped using the novation software, now that's interesting.. let me know how it goes with it. I guess you just have to build a Vortex friendly preset right?

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musikmachine - Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:50 pm

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Launchpad is open source http://blog.launchpad.net/general/launchpad-is-now-open-source

Haven't really touched the automap yet, tried it with Geist but the pads were mapped all over the place, got to rtfm. I think all the pads are red though so it's hard to differentiate between controls but the launchpad side of it is really good for controlling live, though a bit buggy.

But there are apps developed with Max like nomone and then there's Alphpad which can be used as a pseudo-hardware step sequencer with any host. Made me think of Vortex.

It's the amount of control you can get, it's possible to adjust pitch, velocity, add scales, change the speed, length and timing of a sequence. it's not so good with knob values but i've seen people using the nanopads for stuff like that.

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Astralp - Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:16 pm

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Interesting! I shall have to get one, it would be a nice combination

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Astralp - Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:19 pm

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btw, can you check out the new vortex beta to see if you can make it crash, especially on the DSP side. Haven't fixed the Shift bug yet but I've added dlogging to identify where the error occurs

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musikmachine - Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:38 pm

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Will do tomorrow, need sleep.

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Astralp - Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:40 pm

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Ok

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como baila - Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:07 pm

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I'm a big AutoMap fan. Personally, I think Nocturn would be much more useful due to having real encoders. It depends what you want to do. I use AutoMap to replace the mouse as much as possible to 'real time' manipulate parameters in instruments or effects ... which can of course be written as automation in most daws.

As far as triggering sequenes goes, a midi file, keyboard or a more tactile device like trigger finger/ Kontrol pad/ mpc, etc., would be my prefrence.

Of course, Launchpad will fit in the backpack nicely.


Como

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musikmachine - Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:59 am

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For accurate control yeah but for step input and triggering the launchpad is perfect with the visual feedback. Alphapad can extend the sequence up to four bars i think, it's stuff like that that i've not found in another midi controller apart from maschine where i can play without having to look at the computer screen, i had no idea the launchpad had this kinda multifunctional capability outside of live. I've only had it a few days but colour me impressed.

I'll have to look at automap, most comments i've read are pretty disparaging so i haven't bothered with it. If i could i'd develop apps myself. Something like Vortex for the launchpad would be awesome. Like you i try to keep away from the mouse as much as possible.

The launchpad is pretty tactile imo, have you tried one? It's not velocity sensitive or anything like an mpc or drum pad but it's better than i expected, i originally bought it for the monome type stuff i'd seen and the performance control that's coming to FL.

But there are some nice apps and hacks around for it that expand it's functionality in other ways and you don't need a full license for Max or Live to get the most out of it.

Cheers.

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como baila - Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:39 am

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No, I haven't tried one ... but I've read about them in detail and have it on my 'maybe, sort of' buy list. But as I had 3 other Novation AutoMap controllers when it came out, it didn't have that ooomph for me.

Have you got some links for the hacks and custom programs you've mentioned? I'd like to know more about them ... both to see if it could put me over the top with getting the Launch Pad and seeing if what they do translates to other AutoMap controllers.

Right now in Vortex, AutoMap is listing several hundred parameters ... many apparently still unassigned. I've got my little Nocturn set up for control of the Master Vol, Master FX Mix, Global Transpose and several other parameters.

Unfortunately, so far Andy has named most of them for his own benefit, not names that immediately reveal the function. I have determined that most of the knobs in the Midi Mixer, i.e., vol, pan, CC3 and CC4, can all be easily identified on a channel by channel basis, and therefore controlled with AutoMap.

I cannot understand why anyone who understands it could disparage AutoMap. It is, in my opinion, as brilliant a controller method as Vortex is an instrument.

What throws a lot of people off is that they think the name means that your controller will automatically map your software parameters as you'd like them to be. It doesn't and no controller software can ... but it gets you as close as a drop down menu and 'click and drag' to move the parameters around the gui and therefore the controller.

What AutoMap does is examine the addressable parameters of the soft and then 'handshake' them across all it's controls in the order that they are listed in the soft. Different designers set up that list (or how things are ordered in their code) in different ways and with different names.

For an example, in Vortex, what I consider a 'Master Volume' is about 10 or so down in the list and ... from memory ... has a parameter name like 'Ammonite II Level.' FX Mix ... which is right next to 'Volume' on the GUI, is about two hundred parameters later.

But check this. So far I haven't heard anything about midi learn from Andy with respect to Vortex ... but as it is midi learn capable, AutoMap already knows that and I'm controlling Vortex parmeters with my hardware!

Not something to be disparaged, in my view.


Como

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musikmachine - Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:22 am

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I meant disparaging of the launchpad automap as it's pretty basic. The third party stuff makes it a non issue though. First hack that i tried was this http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=168495&hilit=novation+launchpad

Which greatly improves the default live launchpad template. These are a few i bookmarked from the launchpad thread here.

http://machinaesoundscapes.wordpress.com/2010/04/07/make-it-go-the-launchpad-as-monome-part-1-startup-and-mlr/
http://www.aurexmusic.com/
http://www.audionewsroom.net/2010/01/novation-launchpad-hackers-perspective.html
http://www.rngtng.com/mtXcontrol/
http://sample-hold.com/2011/12/19/make-fun-of-your-launchpad-with-launchplay-vst-plugin/
http://alphapadstepsequencer.blogspot.com/
http://parallelogram.cc/mlrv/

Then there's nativekontrol but again that's designed for Live;

http://www.nativekontrol.com/LPC-Live.html

And there are some visual hacks on youtube plus a heap of things you could do with Bome's. The nonome hack is cool cause you can use any of the Max monome stuff with the free runtime version. You need to use a virtual midi cable for most of the hacks but it makes the launchpad a pretty versatile control surface.

Re automap expectations, that's how Novation sell it! I think it makes more sense with the remote control surfaces but not so much for the launchpad but i could use it for key commands in studio one so that would be another way to utilise it.

Cheers.

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como baila - Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:40 am

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Ah! It's the launch pad implementation in Live you don't like! LOL

Thanks for the links!

Como

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musikmachine - Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:50 am

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I just read that the red buttons made it a bit counter intuitive but i came across these videos on using automap with native lunchpad mode http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPVaM7PboXc&feature=related

Worth watching those dsp project videos to show a few other ways the lp can be used. Will look at creating a template for Vortex but i'm not sure how to distinguish all th controls across 16 channels...

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como baila - Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:21 pm

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Just take a look ... most of the Midi Mixer channel knobs are near the end of the drop down list. You'll see things like "CC3 1, CC3 2, ... Vol 1, ... Pan 1, etc., ... with the ending number referring to the channel number.

I don't know if you have automap pro or the regular version ... but the pro adds quite a bit of fuctionality.

The challenge is simply figuring out how to use your controllers interface and the 'pages' in AutoMap to best lay something out.

I often use a page per channel in nocturn with usually master controls on each page. That way I know I have all the controls for that channel plus the overall volume, fx mix, etc., using Vortex as an example, then I set the consecutive pages the same way with now Channel 2, etc., but the same master controls.

The ideal tool for this with Vortex would be the Zero controller, which also includes 8 pads that can be used as triggers, MPC style.

Como

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musikmachine - Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:51 am

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I don't think there is a pro version for the launchpad.

I think i will leave the CC control to a more appropriate midi device.

Automap would be better if i could change the pad colour then at least i could assign different colours to different functions for each page keepnig things seperate. Everything midi related is red.

Anyway, for now i'll use it for triggering things like the multisequencer until Andy develops that launchpad app he was talking about.

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como baila - Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:16 am

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I'm pretty sure you can upgrade to the Pro version for $35.00. I know I did it when I had the Nocturn and original Zero SL ... neither of which came with the Pro version.

I agree that the page structure could use some rework ... both for some type of easy navigation between pages and some type of color coding.

While AutoMap works across all Novation controllers, the utility varies with the controller. I think if I only had one it would probably be the Zero SL MKII, as this has the most useful hardware feature set ... but is not tied to a midi keyboard, giving you a lot of flexibility.

I found it well worth it.

Como

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musikmachine - Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:41 pm

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Afaict, Automap 4 has replaced 3 and Pro http://www.novationmusic.com/products/software/automap/

Anyway i was using the user modes not automap () I've automapped a few plugins and the lp works pretty good with drum synths like utonic, gotta see if it's possible to increase and decrease values smoothly though and then set up a template for Vortex But the hui will help to keep an overview of the controls.

Between Live, M4L/Runtime, vst plugins and the user modes the lp offers a lot of control for it's size. Great little controller.

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como baila - Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:21 pm

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Ahhh ... yeah! It makes a big difference when you are actually using Automap!


Probably explains why a lot of folks complain about it.

One of the things you need to learn to do

Keep diggin!'

Como

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como baila - Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:33 pm

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One of the things you have to learn to really use Automap is to unlock the 'Min' 'Max' editing. (Settings> Unlock Max & Min Editing.)

Once you do this, you can get real control over the hardware. Since I don't have launch pad, I don't know how Novation defines the pads ... I assume they are velocity sensitive from 0-127 and have a 'latch' feature, so they will retain the last value reached; and, can be set as momentary or on/ off switches.

I don't know if they have a 'step' mode, but if they do, you can divide up the Min to Max parameters so that each push will take you one step up or down, depending how you set up the parameters.

If there is a 'step' mode, let me know and I'll try to explain it.

Como

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There are 20 posts in this topic.