KVR :: Computer Setup and System Configuration » Upgrading from 32bit XP to 64bit Win 7. What's to know? [View Original Topic]
There are 33 posts in this topic.

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Goseba - Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:18 am

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I am just upgrading my music PC hardware and am considering moving on from XP, which has been very reliable for me, to 64bit Windows 7 to allow me more than 4Gb RAM.

I have the chance of the upgrade version (at a good price) rather than a full install version and wonder what problems I might encounter with the upgrade? How easy/successful is upgrading 32bit XP to 64bit 7?

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UltraJv - Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:25 am

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The first thing to know is that its not really an upgrade. You cant upgrade 32 bit to 64 and keep your programs. Its a fresh install. About 97% of programs will still work on Windows 7.

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Goseba - Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:41 pm

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OK thanks. I guess I have to enter my XP serial then during install so it knows the upgrade is genuine.

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metamorphosis - Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:48 pm

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That's correct yes.
Check your motherboard and other devices websites first to double-check there's drivers available (particularly if you have an older machine), and download those before you upgrade, would be my advice.

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DarkStar - Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:53 pm

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I did find this:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows7/help/upgrading-from-windows-xp-to-windows-7
You can download a PDF too.

This forum has many helpful people: http://www.sevenforums.com

After installation, do not install any of your VST(i)s into the Program Files or Program Files (x86) folders as Windows 7 is more protective of them. Set up your own, e.g. C:\Music\ Plugins-64 and C:\Music\ Plugins-32 with sub-folders as you wish.

Also, you may need to run some Installers "as Administrator" in order to complete the installs successfully. Note that that is not the same as being logged in on an administrator-type user account. This is needed as not all installers are fully compatible with Windows 7 (even after all this time)

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Goseba - Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:56 pm

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I'm just upgrading to a newer motherboard/cpu and have already downloaded latest drivers ready for when I start.

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DarkStar - Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:06 pm

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Also:
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/31402-clean-install-upgrade-windows-7-version.html

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Goseba - Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:13 pm

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Thanks DarkStar. I am trying to decide if the hassle of going 64bit just for a few gig more ram is worth it to me at this point.

Would there be any other benefits other than more RAM?

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metamorphosis - Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:15 pm

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Well, you get to run 64-bit apps, meaning you get access to more than just 2GB per app. SO you can use more ram in your apps.
You could use rt7lite and strip out some of the junk in 7 before you install as well, if you wanted.
Personally I'm still on xp 32bit here.

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Goseba - Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:25 pm

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I'm happy with XP 32bit, but since I'm upgrading hardware it got me thinking about going 64 bit. Staying on XP will be the easier option.

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Kaboom75 - Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:27 pm

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All your drivers will need to be changed to 64bit drivers such as, sound chip, graphics card, motherboard drivers and so on. If you have a 32bit DAW buy Jbridge it will allow your 32bit daw to use all your ram by making your plugins use a seperate processs, Ram address space. make sure its all backed up and download 64bit divers for any hardware you can think of put it all on a flash stick or backup drive.

If you don't use large sample instruments then 64bit is not too important.

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VitaminD - Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:53 pm

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I think this is important to know. You will no longer use 32-bit drivers.. you will HAVE to use the 64-bit drivers.. for everything.

So you can use 32-bit software in win7 64, but the drivers have to be 64-bit only. Before going 64-bit, ensure all of your hardware has 64-bit drivers.


Also, mostly mentioned, there is NO upgrade from XP to windows7. That includes from XP64 to Win7 64-bit. You will be installing fresh (or reformat) on a new HDD.

HOWEVER, there is a method to install the Win7 'upgrade' media cleanly. The basic idea is to install Windows 7 normally, when it gets to asking for the serial dont enter anything.. it should still install.. when you get to your new desktop, go to the activation applet in your start menu and enter in the key then and allow it to activate. At least that is what I think I remember... Google is your friend here to confirm.

In my experience and opinion, Win7 is soooo much nicer than XP and I liked XP. As long as you have stable hardware, Win7 will be stable as well. I've been up on this session for 11 days, 17 hours I more than likely will be skipping Windows8.

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decalogue - Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:59 pm

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Something to know about Win 7 64-bit is that the different editions (Home, Professional, Ultimate) allow for different maximum amounts of RAM. The Home version has an upper limit of 16 GB.

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Goseba - Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:31 pm

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I can get Professional at a good price until the end of the month so I have a week and a half to decide. Maybe I'll buy the 'upgrade' now anyway and see how I get on with XP. I guess I could set up a dual boot for XP and 7.

I use Omnisphere and sometimes Kontakt which I think are my most RAM consuming items. I am happy freezing tracks and haven't hit any problems yet, CPU power has been more of a restriction hence the upgrade.

I am going from a Q6600 marginally underclocked (as fast as my motherboard would allow ) to an i5 Quad at 2.8 so I should see some improvement

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Kaboom75 - Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:39 pm

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The i5 is far faster even at the same Mhz. If you buy a third party cooler you can overclock it a huge amount and overclocking is easier these days.

win 7 Home 64bit can use 16GB RAM
win 7 64bit professional and Ultra can use 256GB RAM. Pro and Ultra also come with usless extra features that only a corporation or the pentagon could make use of.


There is also Win 7 64bit OEM which is cheaper but it's licence is locked to your motherboard so if you upgrade the motherboard you have to buy Windows again the retail versions are better for upgrades.

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metamorphosis - Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:04 pm

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Just to note, you can't legally buy OEM versions without a new machine, so with a new machine is your only window for the OEM vers.




Have a look at my guide, it is possible to get a lot from x86 if you tweak a bit.
I have 4gb ram (3.6GB accessible), currently running firefox, have 3.1GB free ram, and am able to access up to 3gb per app due to the /3GB switch (and having an nlite'd installation - do not attempt /3GB without a stripped nlite'd installation).
All depends on your needs and your apps.
If you need access to more than 3.6GB of ram total, win7 x64 (or xp x64).

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Goseba - Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:14 am

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Thanks for the info so far, I will do some more research first.

It just occurred to me though.

The Win 7 upgrade is not OEM but the XP install may have been. How do I tell from the XP install disc?

If XP is OEM, does that mean it won't work after a motherboard/cpu upgrade?

Also, would the Win 7 installation be classed as OEM if upgrading from an OEM version?

Questions, questions...

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shanecgriffo - Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:48 am

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i just bought a new (2nd hand)win 7 64 bit laptop and i have to say the whole changeover (from xp)has been a bit stressfull, My main audio interface (novation x-station) no longer functions (just bursts of noise, tho drivers are supposed to be 64 bit compatible)asio4all works tho and my smaller m-audio interface, been getting a few crashes with ableton too.. it all looks nice and it is a faster machine for me but i'll be keeping my xp laptop just in case!
(oh and re-installing re-authorising everything .. what a freekin' pain!!)
sorry for the negative review.. thats just from my perspective

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Goseba - Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:26 am

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All opinions welcome

I guess if my XP is OEM and I can't change motheroard I will be forced into a change anyway. Maybe 32bit Win 7.

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Kaboom75 - Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:32 am

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You can buy OEM as long as you buy it for a build which most shops allow you to buy OEM with just a hard drive purchase.

OEM XP allowed you as many installs and upgradeds as you liked as long as you keep the sticker on the same case and install on one computer at a time but they changed that with Win 7.

You can buy Win 7 OEM if you buy a hard drive or motherboard with it and then after install it is locked to that motherboard.

I installed the same Win XP OEM on two complete new builds this was fine with the licence as long as you dont have it on two computers at the same time.

The upgrade looked awkward to me so I baught Win 7 64bit home retail.

I found with Win 7 64bit that any software or hardware that had not been patched by the makers in a long time would not work with Win 7. This included Photoshop and some four year old games. If you're using an old version of a DAW and not the curent version you are taking a big risk.

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Goseba - Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:57 am

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My software is generally the latest version (apart from Sonar which I would not install again).

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codec_spurt - Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:53 am

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You won't have any performance hit going with 32-bit. It is just as snappy
and efficient as 64-bit. The exception being RAM. I doubt very much you will be
exceeding this limit - 3.2GB.


Win7 is ok. Just make sure you go with a non-Aero desktop - go for classic - it will save you many mpg.

In fact, Win7 is a right dog on the same hardware. It is a great, efficient and very nice OS. I have gone deep into Linux and always come back to this OS.
You use it coz you have to. Whether you use the 32-bit or 64-bit is pretty much academic. I use 64-bit and see no improvement at all. Actually, that may not be true. And I may not know what I am talking about. There are memory bandwidth enhancements. I haven't gone as far as measuring them. I think it is fair to say they are negligible at the end of the day.


For the hassle of compatibility you get, the 'performance enhancements' really aren't worth it. In 90 percent of cases. Stick with 32-bit if it is not a problem.

Please feel free to correct my devil's advocate post.
Be gentle!

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Goseba - Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:16 pm

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I am edging towards staying with XP. As mentioned before, it is only the fact I could get 7 cheap on offer that made me consider it.

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sellyoursoul - Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:05 pm

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If you go 64 bit Windows 7, find out if the drivers are any good first. When I went from 32 bit XP to 64 bit 7, my audio interface driver took a serious dive, and there is no sign of Avid/M-Audio getting it together any time soon. I'm talking BSOD's, freezing, and mediocre performance when it is working. The usable buffer size has doubled, and the latency has more than doubled.

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Goseba - Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:07 pm

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Thanks, my audio card is an M-Audio 2496.

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Kaboom75 - Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:47 pm

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if you use Win 7 32bit you could still have problems with software and gear working it's still a different OS. Also Win 7 uses up more ram so you will have less ram than Win XP if you install the Win 7 32bit version.

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Goseba - Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:52 pm

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I think I've been talked in to staying with XP for now

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metamorphosis - Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:09 pm

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OEM versions don't tie themselves to any PARTICULAR motherboard.
They'll just detect a change if you're using the installation then you use the same installation with a new computer.
But I haven't had any problems with that.

I'm not 100% sure how the licensing works with OEM XP, but you should just have to call up and give them the call-and-response code.




That limit is in place on some older versions of Vista, but not XP.
Your ram limit in XP is RAM - system resource addressing space. I have 3.6GB accessible.
But on modern machines this doesn't seem to be so much of a problem.
For example, I have a 800MB graphics card, and it's not eating into my address space. Not sure how that works but hoorah.




Do yourself a favour and use Nlite to strip, patch and configure your OS before you install.

It's so much easier to configure the OS the way you want it in nlite, rather than gravitating through 1-hundred-odd menus once it's installed.

Also you end up with a much smaller OS footprint, both in terms of HDD space, files, processes overhead and ram usage.

The install I use is a 300MB ISO, and has SP3 and all the after-sp3 updates rolled into it. You can find links in my guide (additional tips section, I think).

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Kaboom75 - Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:26 pm

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OEM Win 7 locked to your motherboard says so on Microsoft site.

Win 7 uses up more ram than XP when it loads so less ram left for software. You only have 3.5GB - 4GB to play with on any 32bit OS. Xp is limited to 3.5GB and 2GB per programe.

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tapper mike - Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:14 pm

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Sure they do. (tie themselves to a motherboard) Which is why one can't install the os to a swap drive or removeable media and just slip it into a different computer.

Without getting into too much detail the licence validation process my company uses relies on both hardware and harddrive profiles as well as other factors. The hardware identity is stored by ms and if ms knows the components used in assembling the product they can cater the os only to operate with that configuration. Harddrive numbers exist and hardware profiles exist.

This is exactly why many products that mac claims will work on VMware and parallels often fail. VMware and parallels generate a false harddrive identity that can change. Whereas bootcamp creates a true computer identity with os the permanent harddrive identity (which is linked to os and can change due to reformat/recover and the hardware configuration.

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metamorphosis - Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:08 pm

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Yup, I was talking about XP.




It's not quite like that.
See the OS ram guide in my sig.

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codec_spurt - Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:20 pm

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That sounds about right and you certainly know a bit more about this than I do. But from my anecdotal evidence - 3.2GB to 3.6GB seems to be bandied about quite a bit. Interesting what you say about the address space, because I got a 512MB card instead of 1024MB for this very reason, yet I see no hit over all. The numbers don't add up.

Just goes to show that you can study and learn for years and think you know, just to be dumbfounded by facts.

I hoorah your hoorah. 'Hoorah!'.



As for nLite. Are you using DuX's version?
I am. It is a bit brutal in places for the average user. But I think with a bit of help, most would get through OK.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=24093

Hell, it is a bit brutal for me in places, but 90 percent the time it is a pure joy.

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metamorphosis - Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:02 am

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Yeah I don't get it either.
I think it must be modern motherboards doing something, or possibly, they've found a way in drivers to use the video card memory, while hiding it from the motherboard.
Certainly 'back in the day' it was different.





I find it's best to roll your own, according to your own personality and needs.
Also Dux's version will be way out of date by now, in terms of post-sp3 service pack updates.
I've got a nlite settings file on my website, but unfortunately nlite tends to 'forget' a lot of settings when you reload config files, so you can download it and go through it.
A lot of what nlite is good for is setting things up just-the-way-you-like-it.
Default XP is pure ugly for me now.
But then others would find my setup ugly. To each their own.
Cheers
M

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There are 33 posts in this topic.