KVR :: Effects » Waves Tune vs AutoTune vs Melodyne? [View Original Topic]
There are 33 posts in this topic.
lfm - Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:57 am
Hi
Now with Waves plugins being hot I'm looking at pitch correcting.
How does Waves Tune plugins standup to competitors?
One thing about Melodyne that seems to cause problem is that it does not operate on the audiodata on the track, but somehow copies this and processes.
It seem not to work that well with Sonar running in a loop. Sonar loops and Melodyne just continue where it was.
AutoTune I read is a bitch to work with. Very cumbersome.
But how do they standup in your view with Waves Tune?
(full version not the LE in most bundles).
Thanks.
Lenticular - Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:05 am
I prefer Melodyne, never had problems with it in X1. I tried using Waves a few years ago but it never seemed to function easily & would either crash/ freeze Sonar.
Maybe different now in v9 / x64 though.
lfm - Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:31 am
Lenticular wrote:
I prefer Melodyne, never had problems with it in X1. I tried using Waves a few years ago but it never seemed to function easily & would either crash/ freeze Sonar.
Maybe different now in v9 / x64 though.
Maybe different now in v9 / x64 though.
Thanks.
You don't miss not being able to run a loop over and over?
I felt that was a turnoff somehow, since I imagine to work over a problem spot like that and listen until it sounds alright.
Or did they do something to X1d that fixes that?
Or can you set a marker, and just go to previous marker over and over by a simple keypress - and Melodyne can follow that?
Lenticular - Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:55 am
lfm wrote:
Lenticular wrote:
I prefer Melodyne, never had problems with it in X1. I tried using Waves a few years ago but it never seemed to function easily & would either crash/ freeze Sonar.
Maybe different now in v9 / x64 though.
Maybe different now in v9 / x64 though.
Thanks.
You don't miss not being able to run a loop over and over?
I felt that was a turnoff somehow, since I imagine to work over a problem spot like that and listen until it sounds alright.
Or did they do something to X1d that fixes that?
Or can you set a marker, and just go to previous marker over and over by a simple keypress - and Melodyne can follow that?
I see your point, I don't loop when editing.
TheoM - Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:55 am
wave tune is brilliant and could not work in 64 bit bridges due to it's reliance on rewire.. now that it has been updated i am grabbing it without hesitation. (well i WILL wait for a super special though hehe).
The vibrato section is just.. well.. unmatched, and melodyne can NOT do that
TheoM - Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:01 am
that's weird, it says it is compatible with logic 9 but logic does definitely NOT support 64 bit rewire... hmm....
I am surprised they didn't re engineer it to not rely on rewire for sync, like a melodyne bridge kind of thing.
In any case, the plug in is old and i still laugh sometimes how good the pitch shift quality is compared to "newer" products.
OK, autotune in graphic mode - very easy to use, quick results, especially for the dreaded synth effect
Pitch quality average
Waves - pitch shift quality equal with melodyne but with vibrato tools that WORK (even the synth vibrato, best on planet) A little clunkier to use and relies on rewire
Melodyne - if you want to do harmonies and time stretch this is the only real option
Personally i'd own autotune efx, melodyne dna AND this and use them all where required depending on a strength or weakness, they are all great tools.
lfm - Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:45 am
ttoz wrote:
that's weird, it says it is compatible with logic 9 but logic does definitely NOT support 64 bit rewire... hmm....
I am surprised they didn't re engineer it to not rely on rewire for sync, like a melodyne bridge kind of thing.
In any case, the plug in is old and i still laugh sometimes how good the pitch shift quality is compared to "newer" products.
OK, autotune in graphic mode - very easy to use, quick results, especially for the dreaded synth effect
Pitch quality average
Waves - pitch shift quality equal with melodyne but with vibrato tools that WORK (even the synth vibrato, best on planet) A little clunkier to use and relies on rewire
Melodyne - if you want to do harmonies and time stretch this is the only real option
Personally i'd own autotune efx, melodyne dna AND this and use them all where required depending on a strength or weakness, they are all great tools.
I am surprised they didn't re engineer it to not rely on rewire for sync, like a melodyne bridge kind of thing.
In any case, the plug in is old and i still laugh sometimes how good the pitch shift quality is compared to "newer" products.
OK, autotune in graphic mode - very easy to use, quick results, especially for the dreaded synth effect
Pitch quality average
Waves - pitch shift quality equal with melodyne but with vibrato tools that WORK (even the synth vibrato, best on planet) A little clunkier to use and relies on rewire
Melodyne - if you want to do harmonies and time stretch this is the only real option
Personally i'd own autotune efx, melodyne dna AND this and use them all where required depending on a strength or weakness, they are all great tools.
Thanks for very useful info.
Isn't it VST - not rewire - that works?
I'm not familiar to Mac-world.
Thinking about playing with harmonies as well, but found another Waves plugin UltraPitch to play with for that.
http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=288
I don't know how good it is yet though - just got the package a few hours ago.
I got the Waves Tune LT with the package I got - but most options are grayed kind of so was curious about full version.
TheoM - Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:48 am
ultrapitch is awful and can not be used for anything other than some synthetic chipmunk effects. However you can get the antares harmonizer for pretty cheap if you want something half decent.
All the grey options are the good ones lol BUT, you can hear the pitch SHIFT quality just the same in the LT version, so if you are happy with that, that's a good start.
Yes it's a VST, RTAS and AU plugin but it *syncs* to the host's transport via rewire, kind of like the plugin appears in your host like a normal one and the rewire happens behind the scenes to sync song position etc.
bduffy - Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:57 am
Yeah, I use the Waves LT Tune all the time, it's amazing even as crippleware.
yerusalan - Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:12 am
I know there only a few real pros in the world when it comes to commercial vocal tuning and as far as I know the most respected ones use Autotune and there was no substitute or at least that's what two of them told me a few years back. Melodyne sounded like shit, I tried it myself, well recorded vocal sounded like crap right after import. I've heard they improved the engine but I'm somewhat skeptical. You'd be amazed what Autotune can do if handled with care and knowledge. Those cats are highly valued in the business and charge starting from 500 Euro - nice job to pursue. AT used to correctly work only in PT back in the days (I think it was version 3 and those guys were picky about which version to use) but now I hear it works fine in Cubase too and follows, stops, rewinds in sync nicely.
lfm - Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:45 pm
ttoz wrote:
ultrapitch is awful and can not be used for anything other than some synthetic chipmunk effects. However you can get the antares harmonizer for pretty cheap if you want something half decent.
All the grey options are the good ones lol BUT, you can hear the pitch SHIFT quality just the same in the LT version, so if you are happy with that, that's a good start.
Yes it's a VST, RTAS and AU plugin but it *syncs* to the host's transport via rewire, kind of like the plugin appears in your host like a normal one and the rewire happens behind the scenes to sync song position etc.
All the grey options are the good ones lol BUT, you can hear the pitch SHIFT quality just the same in the LT version, so if you are happy with that, that's a good start.
Yes it's a VST, RTAS and AU plugin but it *syncs* to the host's transport via rewire, kind of like the plugin appears in your host like a normal one and the rewire happens behind the scenes to sync song position etc.
I played with Ultrapitch a bit, on a basstrack and there were some useful stuff for as you said - effect.
No planning on doing harmonies to sound like a choir - more like effect on voice.
I don't care for hiring vocalists all the time for demo.
We'll see...
lfm - Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:48 pm
bduffy wrote:
Yeah, I use the Waves LT Tune all the time, it's amazing even as crippleware.
Thanks, I will give it a go. WavesUniverse is checking if there is a discount for upgrade to full version - when buying LT version in bundle.
It's always nice with options when you need them.
bduffy - Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:50 pm
lfm wrote:
bduffy wrote:
Yeah, I use the Waves LT Tune all the time, it's amazing even as crippleware.
Thanks, I will give it a go. WavesUniverse is checking if there is a discount for upgrade to full version - when buying LT version in bundle.
It's always nice with options when you need them.
Cool, let me know if there is. I do have the very good "VariAudio" inside Cubase, but sometimes Waves Tune is better.
lfm - Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:03 pm
yerusalan wrote:
I know there only a few real pros in the world when it comes to commercial vocal tuning and as far as I know the most respected ones use Autotune and there was no substitute or at least that's what two of them told me a few years back. Melodyne sounded like shit, I tried it myself, well recorded vocal sounded like crap right after import. I've heard they improved the engine but I'm somewhat skeptical. You'd be amazed what Autotune can do if handled with care and knowledge. Those cats are highly valued in the business and charge starting from 500 Euro - nice job to pursue. AT used to correctly work only in PT back in the days (I think it was version 3 and those guys were picky about which version to use) but now I hear it works fine in Cubase too and follows, stops, rewinds in sync nicely.
Thanks.
AT is good from what I heard - but maybe cumbersome to work with and still highpriced.
There were a show on tv they took a guy for fun that could not sing anything on pitch. Recording took two minutes - fixing up the end result took almost a day for these pros.
But I heard plenty good about Melodyne as well.
Just never saw a thread over Waves Tune and was curious.
There is Roland VVocal in Sonar and I have not tried that yet either. But it does not compare to Melodyne, seem to be the verdict.
fx1mark - Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:20 pm
I have melodyne editor, auto tune evo and cubase 6.5, with variaudio. each is a great tool in it's own right. I personally prefer melodyne and think it's pitch correction is slighty more realistic sounding. autotune though, can be used in realtime and in capture mode, and has cool editing features in capture mode, plus is can do special affect pitch correcting that melodyne is not capable of. autotune has a steeper learning curve but really not bad. variaudio is less powerfull, editing wise, but fast and easy to use. I use all three depending on what I need.
standalone - Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:51 am
yerusalan wrote:
I know there only a few real pros in the world when it comes to commercial vocal tuning and as far as I know the most respected ones use Autotune and there was no substitute or at least that's what two of them told me a few years back. Melodyne sounded like shit, I tried it myself, well recorded vocal sounded like crap right after import. I've heard they improved the engine but I'm somewhat skeptical. You'd be amazed what Autotune can do if handled with care and knowledge. Those cats are highly valued in the business and charge starting from 500 Euro - nice job to pursue. AT used to correctly work only in PT back in the days (I think it was version 3 and those guys were picky about which version to use) but now I hear it works fine in Cubase too and follows, stops, rewinds in sync nicely.
Here are some real pros too
http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=artists&L=2
yerusalan - Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:09 am
Quote:
Here are some real pros too
May be. Yet their software was crap last time i checked it and it was pushed to to potential clients in the same manner. I tell you this - I was pro enough to hear the sound go south on import lol and it was out of discussion with vocal tuning specialists. Flexibility was certainly there and also far easier to use than AT. This actually has been discussed in depth, I mean the principles behind their sound engine vs AT. I think it was on gearslutz, dig it up cos as far as I remember it was good read. Dammit you got me curious and I will download their demo if there is one and check on it again. If it still sound crappy I'll post some samples. If not I'll be the first to admit it's great. As for now now all I can say I'm not gonna read marketing hype - been there before.
xamido - Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:14 am
yerusalan wrote:
I know there only a few real pros in the world when it comes to commercial vocal tuning and as far as I know the most respected ones use Autotune and there was no substitute or at least that's what two of them told me a few years back. Melodyne sounded like shit, I tried it myself, well recorded vocal sounded like crap right after import. I've heard they improved the engine but I'm somewhat skeptical. You'd be amazed what Autotune can do if handled with care and knowledge. Those cats are highly valued in the business and charge starting from 500 Euro - nice job to pursue. AT used to correctly work only in PT back in the days (I think it was version 3 and those guys were picky about which version to use) but now I hear it works fine in Cubase too and follows, stops, rewinds in sync nicely.
Name those two pros that you know and tell you that.
yerusalan - Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:40 am
Ok. I downloaded Melodyne demo. I admit it's a lot better than what it used to be. It still does change the sound of unedited parts to worse but is now much more subtle. I guess since theres a 30 days trial on offer everyone can download and check.
Hey bxamido I'll do much more than just giving you the names. Let's do it this way - you do some correction in melodyne and I do it in AT, minor editing just to check for sound integrity. How about that?
5Lives - Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:26 am
I like Autotune and Waves Tune the best (for both sound and workflow). Melodyne is fun when you want to try out different melodies / harmonies and such, but for just straight tuning and cleaning up vocals, I don't find the workflow as good (this is in PT via AudioSuite). Waves Tune sounds surprisingly great actually, but AT7 with the time adjustment features is pretty hard to beat.
xamido - Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:17 am
yerusalan wrote:
Ok. I downloaded Melodyne demo. I admit it's a lot better than what it used to be. It still does change the sound of unedited parts to worse but is now much more subtle. I guess since theres a 30 days trial on offer everyone can download and check.
Hey bxamido I'll do much more than just giving you the names. Let's do it this way - you do some correction in melodyne and I do it in AT, minor editing just to check for sound integrity. How about that?
Hey bxamido I'll do much more than just giving you the names. Let's do it this way - you do some correction in melodyne and I do it in AT, minor editing just to check for sound integrity. How about that?
No, i'm not bashing you. I'm just seriously curious of who they are. If you can name them it will help me to believes on antares more. I'm also considering between these 3 choices.
standalone - Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:47 am
5Lives wrote:
I like Autotune and Waves Tune the best (for both sound and workflow). Melodyne is fun when you want to try out different melodies / harmonies and such, but for just straight tuning and cleaning up vocals, I don't find the workflow as good (this is in PT via AudioSuite). Waves Tune sounds surprisingly great actually, but AT7 with the time adjustment features is pretty hard to beat.
I think Melodyne's workflow is hard to beat, especially in Studio One V2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyeWpfGfDWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LQoUBbbIew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edz2PoO3GIs
5Lives - Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:23 pm
True - but until all the DAWs have that, the workflow is more cumbersome in my opinion - especially compared to AudioSuite.
blueman - Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:38 pm
I prefer Waves Tune and am actually quite baffled that it's not taken more seriously as a competitor to the others
I have Melodyne with Studio One v2 Pro and I used to use AutoTune 4. Waves Tune sounds superior to me; if you're going for a natural vocal. For other applications, I cannot say.
R
TheoM - Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:46 pm
waves tune pitch shift is probably the overall best plugin for vocal pitch shifting out there...
i forgot to say nectar is very very good too though as it basically uses radius shifting!
cryophonik - Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:34 am
I've been using Melodyne for years, but I just upgraded to the Waves Gold bundle and I'm really impressed with Tune LT so far, so much so that I'm probably going to upgrade to the full version. Based on my use with Tune so far, it really does seem to sound more natural, and especially seems to handle note transitions better than Melodyne, particularly the way it handles relatively large intervals where the vocalist initially over-/under-shoots the intended note. Melodyne can get pretty wonky in that situation IME.
don1thedon - Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:32 am
FYI I recently checked my "Special Offers" over at Waves online and picked up Tune for just $90 ... absolute bargain (I also have AT & Melodyne in Studio 1 V2), I think it may have been Gold that gave me the offer (though I do have a few other singles).
noiseboyuk - Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:46 am
I know I should know this... but what's the main differences between Tune and Tune LT?
lfm - Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:56 am
noiseboyuk wrote:
I know I should know this... but what's the main differences between Tune and Tune LT?
Most of the tweak options are grayed in LT.
But it's still useful as I understand it. I just got a bundle two days ago so I have not tried it yet.
Really glad over what I read about Tune here though.
noiseboyuk - Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:31 pm
lfm wrote:
noiseboyuk wrote:
I know I should know this... but what's the main differences between Tune and Tune LT?
Most of the tweak options are grayed in LT.
But it's still useful as I understand it. I just got a bundle two days ago so I have not tried it yet.
Really glad over what I read about Tune here though.
I've had Gold a few months, but never got round to checking out Tune LT. I can't make it work in Sonar 8.5.3. I worked out I need to insert rewire device / waves rewire, so its there and claims to be working - but its not following the transport control, so nothing is happening.
Yeah, I now see most stuff is greyed out. The vibrato in particular I'd miss.
lfm - Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:26 am
noiseboyuk wrote:
I've had Gold a few months, but never got round to checking out Tune LT. I can't make it work in Sonar 8.5.3. I worked out I need to insert rewire device / waves rewire, so its there and claims to be working - but its not following the transport control, so nothing is happening.
Yeah, I now see most stuff is greyed out. The vibrato in particular I'd miss.
Good info, I get the same result. Nothing moves about transport.
I wander if rewire x64 existed at the time of Sonar 8.5.3, if that is it?
If Sonar X1 works maybe?
X1D should be rewire x64 I think.
Tried in Reaper 3.6 and transport and everything runs at least. Marker moves and keys played are animated. Still says though unable to establish rewire link.
I will update Reaper to whatever version I bought and see.
I don't see Waves Rewire anything, isn't that installed if Tune needs this?
This would be launched automatically by some apps, it says.
EDIT: It's not supported in Sonar X1 to X1D either.
http://www.wavesupport.net/Objects/Images/Product%20Info/Supported_Hosts_Charts/V9_pc.html
Got rewire connected by does not send necessary stuff it seems. Everytime you start transport it scan one note, but not more. So it's probably not much needed to get it running.
Reaper 4.21 does not quite do it either. But transport is running, but nothing identified somehow.
noiseboyuk - Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:41 am
Hmm, thanks for that info lfm. Looks like its another Waves product to add to my list of "does not work in Sonar" - Vocal Rider doesn't either.
Just to clarify, in Sonar I install Waves Rewire first (which appears in the Rewire menu), then install Tune LT - but the transport doesn't work.
lfm - Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:49 pm
Yes, but I got Reaper 4.21 to work just fine in the end.
I got rid of the message to connect rewire link in Sonar by loading rewire like instructed for ProTools.
I never got rid of that message in Reaper, but it works anyway.
Scanning, rendering, everything...really nice.
And to be truthful, it actually says in Waves compatility chart that Sonar does not support Tune or Tune LT. I missed that from start.
SamplitTude does not support it either, and Studio One support it from version 2.0. So they fixed this.
I didn't look at Reaper for 20 month now, and upgraded from 3.6.
Really nice and I'm looking seriously into switching.
Have no obstacles so far in Reaper now, it feels rock solid in everything it does.
One thing in Tune LT is the zoom function sometimes just works on a tiny portion of the visible area. And I had something like that in Sonar too.
I don't know if this part is depending on rewire info or is a bug.
Plug seems to loose navigation where it's displayed. It operates where you expect though.
I will try to narrow down a scheme to go through and report to Waves and see what they say.
But I don't think Sonar is so far away to get it working. As I mentioned it identifies one note and time I start transport.
There are 33 posts in this topic.