KVR :: Hosts (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.) » PreSonus Studio One FREE??! [View Original Topic]
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3ee - Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:34 pm

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Just saw this Musikmesse 2012 video about what's new in Studio One 2.xx and discovered some interesting news.
I'm not a Studio One user, but checking it out from time to time since It seems pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNI4PNovFyI

For those who don't understand german, the guy explains at some point that there will be a free version of Studio One released shortly... (including effects like chorus, flanger phaser, delay reverb... channel strip (hmm I wonder how that would sound ).. much more + )

I guess that we'll find more info soon @ www.presonus.com

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CTStump - Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:58 pm

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Here is the English version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xYKOB-akfh0

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LawrenceF - Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:04 pm

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Yeah, my understanding from the video / screenshot / and what the guy was saying is that it's free with unlimited tracks.

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metamorphosis - Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:05 pm

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With probably no VST support, given their licensing I would imagine.

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grymmjack - Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:44 am

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This is pretty cool considering that Kristal audio engine was free for so many years. Nostalgic throw back to the KAE days?

Nice gesture.

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chokehold - Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:08 am

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Let's hope they finally make their Artist version open to VST/AU plugins by shoveling the pile of "no 3rd party plugins" sh*t down on the new Free version. I would then probably get some use out of my $20.11 after all.

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quayquay17 - Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:14 am

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I wouldn't jump on it if it won't have native support for this plugin

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sellyoursoul - Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:26 am

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I'll pass, but thanks for the offer.

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audiojunkie - Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:37 am

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This is the second time I've seen Kristal Audio Engine mentioned at the same time as Studio One. Was one of the developers of Studio One a Kristal Audio Engine developer, or is Studio One some form of newer version of Kristal or something?

--Sean

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bpblog - Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:43 am

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Studio One channel strip is just a simple utility plugin, no fancy saturation effects and such. but useful nonetheless!

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VitaminD - Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:53 am

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Yep!


and further..

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audiojunkie - Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:18 am

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WAY COOL!!! Good for them!

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Beazlebug - Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:30 pm

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They cut some of the video off: basically the free version will not allow 3rd party plugins and all audio output is disabled. Other than that it's totally uncrippled.

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VitaminD - Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:35 pm

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(not a dig at you but at presonus)

Read: It is completely crippled. Other than that it's totally uncrippled.

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mabian - Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:39 pm

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Maybe it would have been interesting if they released Studio One V1 for free...

- Mario

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fedexnman - Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:09 pm

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I guess we'll see what the free version has to offer soon ?

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FrankT - Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:41 pm

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strangedogs - Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:46 am

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IMO Studio One should be free. To me it's just "fluff". Reaper, Cubase, Logic, etc. are all logical DAW's - Studio One I rate low - on par with TRACKTION. That's my 2 cents

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standalone - Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:40 am

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Is that your 1st of April contribution?

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xamido - Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:48 pm

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Lol, the amount of nonsense some of you are posting must have been from april fools mood. Of course it won't have 3rd party plugin.



Fixed that for you

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fedexnman - Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:16 pm

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Fixed again , Tracktion was great ! Happy April Fools Day !!!!!

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redsunmuzik - Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:51 am

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yaaay. its here.

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bpblog - Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:10 pm

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where? i can't find any news.

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satYatunes - Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:24 pm

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We are already past April fools day, please stop it

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paulbreeze - Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:25 pm

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http://studioone.presonus.com/free/
http://studioone.presonus.com/what-are-the-versions/

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Tricky-Loops - Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:38 pm

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Too bad that the free version has no VST support and very few native effects (and no virtual instruments). And I couldn't live without folder tracks and grouping, neither.

I don't know how you can make music with it, probably only with audio tracks?? (As it's not possible to load a VSTi or VST)

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bpblog - Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:40 pm

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sweet, thanks!

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CTStump - Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:19 pm

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Comes with Presence, Soundfont capable player, Not the best one out there but more than useful for a taste of the program.

It's as good as Mutools Mulab(more tracks) my friend.

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Tricky-Loops - Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:32 pm

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Yes, for a taste of the program it's good - but solely for a taste I could also use the demo version...

MuLab Free is better, IMO - it has the modular synth and great FX, and you can load some VSTi and VST. There is no track limit on PreSonus, but I couldn't fill loads of tracks just with Presence and Audio samples.

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CTStump - Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:36 pm

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You notice I didn't say it was better? I knew you come back with that response. Let's let those who try it make up their own minds with out making assertions as to what is better.Silly argument it's free anyway.

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LawrenceF - Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:39 pm

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And so it begins...

Anyone who doesn't like Artist won't like Free either. It's kinda not for those people anyway. It's more (as I understand it) for the financially challenged who play acoustic instruments. Not that you can't make something good on the electronic front with Presence, you actually can with a little talent and patience.

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Tricky-Loops - Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:50 pm

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Everyone can try, I don't hinder anybody.

But I have to say, that the free version of PreSonus Studio One doesn't convince me. If I could load at least a few VSTi or VST, then I would try it - otherwise not.

The full version of PreSonus Studio One is indeed great (and much better than MuLab, I wouldn't even compare it to), but the free version is TOO restricted.

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CTStump - Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:56 pm

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You made the assertion that it didn't come with an instrument I clarified that, I made a comparison with another FREE program. Let's leave it at that or this discussion will be taken over by a non issue in the first place, are we in agreement?

If not continue with out me.

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Tricky-Loops - Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:14 pm

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You have clarified that, and now I know that it has a sampler as instrument, which is Presence. But it would be useful if there was at least one other instrument, especially a synthesizer. Not a modular synth, but at least one with a few oscillators.

That's only a suggestion, you don't have to take your potential customers for serious, if you don't want to. I can buy any other DAW, too, there are several good ones.

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braj - Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:45 am

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I am installing the Free version now, but it makes me think a 'free' version without VST support is a bit daft, I personally think 'Studio One v2 FourTrack' would be a better idea, something limited to 4 tracks, but otherwise fully-featured and allowing a good scratchpad that would likely get many many adopters, and many many upgrades after people feel 4 tracks is too limiting. Plus for me it has some nostalgic value Anyhow I hope to get to appreciate S1 more with this free version (my demo timed out before I could find any love for it). Just without VSTs I don't know what exactly I'll be able to do with it. Limitations should be there definitely, i understand not giving away the farm for free, just it seems VST support is the wrong thing to remove. Maybe make it only 2 audio and 2 midi tracks, similar to some versions of Live.

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braj - Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:57 am

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Actually having seen Presence I think it is a great free DAW. It is enough variety to make a track and tell if the workflow is what you want/need. One question though that can't be answered is if my plugins (especially midi effects like arps) will work. Allowing the use of one VST per project would resolve that.

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braj - Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:10 pm

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One thing I really like about Studio One after playing with the midi editor is the groove system, that is really really cool.

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LawrenceF - Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:18 pm

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That's what the demo is for. You can turn "free" into the demo at any time (I think) and when the demo expires it reverts back to the free version. 30 days should be more than enough time to test plugs..

The demo is free also... so seems like a non-issue.

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braj - Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:25 pm

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Yeah just right now I have a question if my collection of arps will work, the demo has timed out and so I can't tell. maybe someone can answer that for me? The built-in Presence sampler is really cool though, good selection and effects and it sips the CPU juice, I think this is my new laptop DAW I'll play with it for a while, maybe it will win my heart. Hopefully I will get a positive answer on the midi plugin support, I seem to remember hearing it wasn't supported. Is there any built-in arp in the DAW?

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LawrenceF - Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:40 pm

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All of the plugs that come with it are publicly listed on the net, like all DAWS. If you don't see it there, it doesn't have it. It's a question you can easily answer for yourself by just looking at the feature list.

http://studioone.presonus.com/what-are-the-versions/

Nothing there anywhere about midi plugs so I'd take a wild guess and say they aren't supported.

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braj - Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:42 pm

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OH I see now you only get VST support with Producer? I thought I was a step away from buying Artist right now but I guess not. But the freebie is great to learn the system and maybe in time I'll get hooked and get Producer or better, especially if overall application performance improves or i get a new computer. Anyhow, nevermind my suggestion about VST support, I guess it doesn't matter much right now.

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braj - Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:43 pm

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Hey man no need to be pissy, it was just a question

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Tricky-Loops - Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:48 pm

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Ah, another NON-ISSUE...

Are you really interested in potential customers??

And BTW, should I take your statement for serious: "It's more (as I understand it) for the financially challenged who play acoustic instruments."

That people with loads of acoustic instruments with a value of thousands of $ are financially challenged??

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LawrenceF - Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:48 pm

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@Braj: Sorry, didnt mean to be pissy. I think my attempt at humor (see the smiley) failed.

Sorry.

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LawrenceF - Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:52 pm

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Huh? I don't work for PreSonus (or any other music company) so, no idea what you mean, I'm a mix engineer mostly, and my customers use all diferent kinds of daws.

I think you have mistakenly confused me with a PreSonus employee. I'm not, just a user.

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braj - Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:56 pm

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I'm not wondering about the plugins that come with it, but the plugins that don't, specifically midi effect plugins, wondering if it allows midi-out plugins to drive other plugins. Kind of a big deal to me, a deal-breaker if the answer is no. I also get a little confused by the interface but that groove function is AWESOME, really digging that one feature a lot and solves a lot of problems that I don't have an easy solution for in Reaper.

This groove function is very similar to what is found in the arp for Trilian/Omnisphere, with drag and drop midi which is awesome. So what arps are compatible with Studio one, anyone? class? Bueler?

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Tricky-Loops - Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:59 pm

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Sorry, I thought they had a customer support guy for all these non-issues...

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LawrenceF - Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:01 pm

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@ Braj: If you're asking can plugs send midi to other places, other instrumentas, yes. I use Catanya like that to feed other instruments, if that's what you mean. I also have sent midi from FLStudio to other tracks.

But midi inserts like Cubase, nothing like that unfortunately. Hope that helps a little.

But yeah, as far as I know, if a plug actually outputs midi it will show up as a input source for midi tracks. Any arp plug like Catanya should be compatible with it.

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LawrenceF - Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:10 pm

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Haha. No problem. If I were an employee they'd have fired me a long time ago. I always get in trouble trying to help people help themselves. Especially here.

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botkiller - Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:12 pm

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Studio One is amazing. I've been producing my band's entire record in it, and mastering all my music in it as well. It really is now my favorite DAW, and I was a cubase guy for YEARS. I still use Ableton, but for straight up tracking, Studio One is the hit.

I do tutorials on it over here: http://bit.ly/obpresonustuts

If anyone's interested, ya know.

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botkiller - Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:14 pm

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Yes, MIDI out plugins can control other plugins. The only major restriction I've found is that you can't route the audio output of a virtual instrument track to the input of an audio track, as many people do in Protools. I imagine this will get there, though; Studio one is really only about three years old, and I think it's already seen more growth in that time than some DAWs well over three times that age.

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braj - Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:21 pm

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Cool, that's what i was wondering does Catanya have to exist on its own track or can it sit in front of another VST in the track's effect chain (not the biggest deal, but wondering how easy it is to set up sends in S1 as well)? Does Catanya work with the track's groove functions or does it get overridden, and how easy is it to write Catanya's output to the piano roll? All these sorts of things I wish I would have tried when the demo was active

A BIG desire I have for Catanya is to get it to 'swing' and lock to grooves, right now it is a convoluted process in Reaper and applying groove templates or dealing with additional plugins that I have found can cause the whole house of cards to crash down at times. If S1 can handle this all elegantly I will start saving up for a producer license.

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LawrenceF - Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:32 pm

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Yeah, you'll need a midi track for it (to monitor your midi keyboard) and another for the other instrument... If you plan to record the arp output to midi and have it play that instrument back from the recorded clips.

If you're just programming the arp with the mouse and letting it run synced to the clock (if it will do that by itself) there's no need for an arrange track for it, not unless you need to actually play into it.

As to grroves, yeah. I rarely do anything in Catanya that I don't edit afterward anyway, after recording it to midi. So yeah, you should be able to treat it like any other midi clip... as realtes to applying grooves.

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botkiller - Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:36 pm

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On a side note, I like how S1 handles Virtual instruments, taking a bit of a call from Cubase and putting them into their own little "rack", allowing you to route MIDI accordingly without needing to connect specifically to arrange tracks. I've had a lot of fun using that feature for doing drum replacement.

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braj - Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:42 pm

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It's ok, language is a virus

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braj - Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:50 pm

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Cool, thanks. I really really wish Artist supported VSTs right now This is pretty much the one thing I am not happy about with Reaper and to me at least a killer feature of S1. Does it say anything about my level of brain damage though that I fine Reaper way more intuitive? After I figure stuff out in S1 it isn't a big deal, but simple stuff like copying regions confused me just need to get used to it and I very much appreciate the free version for doing that, again i think the included sampler is great and gives you lots to work with. It kind of forces me to not fool around with sound design so much and worry about the actual music, just I wish I had an arp. My kingdom for an arp!

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LawrenceF - Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:53 pm

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Well, that's certainly true but I was wrong there. I thought you were talking about actual midi plugins, like Cubase, Reaper, whatever. The stuff you were talking about actually isn't easily discovered in print, so, yeah, my bad, the apology was very necessary.

I mean, although I was half joking It still missed your actual point completely.

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braj - Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:57 pm

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Sorry if i wasn't so clear, and sorry for calling you pissy

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Musical Gym - Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:37 pm

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Is there a way to load Presence in another DAW?

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braj - Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:48 pm

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In the full version is there a way to add additional scales to the midi editor?

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progtronic - Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:41 am

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nope. that was almost a deal breaker for me.. until I realized I could use the ability to layer midi tracks together in the piano roll, to create a pseudo scale guide.

I have a separate track I use to create a scale by plugging in the notes on the piano roll, invert it.. then copy the completed octave up and down the board.

I lay that behind the current track I'm editing (set it to 'view', not edit), so I can see where the notes in the scale should fall.

this ended up being a better option for me than the snap-to-scale model they have currently.. because I do a lot of stuff that requires going chromatic from time to time.

still.. it seems it would be really easy for them to implement this sort of feature in the future.

only having 11, pre-determined scales to choose from now.. seems ridiculous.

I'd like to see an expanded list of scales, with the ability to create my own. and some sort of scale manager. I'd like an option to gray out notes that aren't in the scale across the roll.. with the ability to toggle a note snap on & off (but leave the graphic gray scale block up), for those chromatic moments.

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braj - Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:17 am

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Yeah Reaper by default doesn't have that many, but it allows importing new scales, this is a big deal for me because I like to get all the exotic Indian scales and i don't know them intimately. But I could always use some external reference and that may help learning the scale better anyhow. But then I saw S1 has some sort of system for extending its capabilities and wonder if custom scales could be made. It would cool if you could just define your own custom scales and save them, the UI seems to be 99% there for doing just that.

I'm kind of on the fence getting S1 or not, I was able to improve the Reaper groove implementation last night after searching for how to do it, creating a custom menu, but it is nowhere as elegant and fast to work with as S1, and searching for work-arounds itself is a big time waster. But then there are things about Reaper's midi that I really like that save me time like coloring notes by pitch, that for me is very handy, and showing only active notes as well, big help I am not so quick to abandon.

But the real big deal keeping me from buying S1 really is the price right now (not that it is unreasonable at all, just my personal financial capacity). I never really looked into the limitations of the Artist version, I had it in my mind that it did do VSTs for $99, which I could afford right now in a pinch. So I am thinking about finding Artist used on the cheap, playing with that more, and then upgrading to Producer if I feel I need to switch, and then eventually getting Pro. There is no denying Studio One has some nice features, and IMO the free version is a stroke of genius, for education it seems a huge boon, with everything one would need to learn all the basics on and then have a good upgrade path as their needs mature. Honestly I didn't mean to be so impressed but it is impressive

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progtronic - Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:46 am

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I was having so many issues with sonar, I really just had to switch. after demoing S1 for a couple weeks, I did the professional crossgrade deal from sonar 8.5.. and saved $100.

still a lot of $$, but worth it to me to be able to get back to work without having to worry about crashing every 10-15mins.

even with workarounds, I'm saving a ton of time, and getting a lot of work done. transferred all my songs for this project over from sonar (straight midi), and all the vst settings for the various fx and instrument plugins really easily.

the smooth workflow advantage with S1 is just amazing.

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braj - Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:56 am

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Yeah the groove thing really solves a lot of what I was trying to fix in Reaper in an incredibly elegant way, I don't have that many complaints about Reaper really but this is a 'killer' feature for me personally, enough to maybe give up other cool things that are in reaper but maybe not (yet) in Studio One. But if S1 is maturing and being improved constantly, it may be better to 'live with less' than live with the Frankenstein that reaper often seems to be I put in a feature request at the presonus forum for my idea of how custom scales could be added, and put in an add for a S1 license in the marketplace, in case anyone wants to sell.

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musikmachine - Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:20 am

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Email Presonus and ask nicely if you can have the demo reset.

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braj - Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:22 am

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Now there's an idea

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filter303 - Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:16 pm

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Is the S1 V2 multicore spikes fixed by now?
I really like Studio One but I can't even think about changing my daw if the problem is still there.

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braj - Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:29 am

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I haven't seen any spikes, but I have only 2 cores.

I have to say the free version is an excellent marketing ploy, after warming up to the free version, I re-tried the Pro demo and just ended up buying it.

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AstralExistence - Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:27 am

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just downloaded this. the whole artist and free is just obnoxious! this is the perfect example of you don't get something for nothin oh well

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captain caveman - Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:02 pm

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That's a bit harsh. It has uncrippled MIDI Out so you can have unlimited VSTis hosted somewhere else. With ReaRoute you can have unlimited FX too.

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braj - Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:16 pm

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And even with nothing else in the Free version, Presence is a pretty cool instrument all by itself, if you have to have just one, it is good at least. I think this is an awesome deal, I don't know of any freebie that does as much.

And though Artist isn't for me, it does have Komplete player support and Essentials, which expands the palette a lot. If someone was happy with those NI offerings, you could easily get good basses, keyboards, drums, synths all within a relatively cheap DAW. I think it depends on the kind of music you make really and how deep you want to go. You can scale up as your needs dictate too, which I think it pretty cool. I see the free version as being a huge boon for many people starting out, or for schools and churches etc. that don't need psychedelic synthesizers Especially for someone not ready to take on figuring out more complex systems and what to buy among all the offerings on the market, the Komplete integration is great.

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AstralExistence - Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:04 pm

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ive heard before that im 'harsh' and in reality im being less harsh and more having less tact. im not lying am i? i am not. see, i don't believe whatsoever in the in the generous company.

in fact i believe whole heatedly in the selfish company. the idea of a generous company does NOT exist. companies try very hard to make themselves seem like they want to help the less fortunate, they do this in a number of means, giving to charity, in the food world coupons, in the software world, limited featured versions.

but you see, whether its holding charity event, give thousands or millions to charity in essence making themselves look good, giving coupons buy such and such and get such free, or offering version of software that just is useless to the market its selling too, companies know exactly what there doing, and they know well and good the offers they make are just good enough to look good on (insert medium) but in reality offer nothing of use to the people there advertising there product too.

its all a front, to appear like the good guy, but in reality is offered for selfish gain. if companies really wanted to be honestly generous they would offer a truly giving offer. i find again and again, you don't get something for nothing, its been like this since the idea of a personal business started long ago. and still, nothing has changed.

the only place the giving spirit actually exists is with freeware, not crippled freeware, freeware, where the author gives away both his time and his money for others. i doubt well see the day where a big audio company offers something worthwhile that can be truly used by the audience it selling too, and frankly im tired of it. whether its a crippled live lite 8, samplitude 11 silver, or studio one free. this is exactly hows it gonna stay. and thats the truth. harsh, yes, harsh reality.

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braj - Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:12 pm

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They are a company that sells products, I knew this is a marketing ploy no doubt about it when I downloaded it, and I knew it would be 'crippled' that is a given, but it is a good marketing ploy that I found attractive, useful, it let me demo their product without too much interference from them, and yes, can actually be useful even by pros depending on what you are doing. Should they be giving away their pro product to other pro producers? I don't see how exploitation is absent from that scenario either, if someone wants something for free that they will use to generate their own revenue, run their own business, then it is just a different side of the same coin. But for a student, or a school, or a church group etc. they can all make good use of this, and they can use whatever hardware interface they like, it isn't tied to Presonus. Is it still essentially an add? Sure. BUt do I care about that? No. Do I think Presonus is some demonic company ala Haliburton? Definitely not

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AstralExistence - Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:21 pm

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well im glad you realize that because thats what exactly what it is. i see nothing wrong with point that out because many people miss this. and think, aww, how nice of them to do that.

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standalone - Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:21 am

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Studio One free is an amazing gift for the 99.99% of musicians that don't use plugins. What you say is not harsh, just uneducated.

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AstralExistence - Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:48 am

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well, that's a pointless argument because 99.99 percent of studioone users aren't people that just record. and certainly, i dont know what the percentage of studio one users who use plugins either. but im sure its a high number. and if you were to tell an electronic musician that, 'studio one free is an amazing gift, you know what? they couldn't careless. point is, it is useless to the plugin crowd. completely useless. and daws that record audio are very numerous. as are free ones, and ones that use fx plugins. vsti plugin daws are not. so, i speak the truth. its a useless gift to the plugin world. i think you know what i meant.

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jjmcjj - Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:02 am

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AstralExistence - Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:06 am

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i agree great band.

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LawrenceF - Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:00 am

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Not that I personally care either way about a rather pointless debate about a free product that nobody debating it's value actually needs (everyone involved already owning a relatively full featured daw right?) ... but... how do you know that exactly?

You have a printout of the S1 demographic report?

I'd be surprised if PreSonus themselves can pinpoint personal usage percentages in any really reliable way... down to a hundredth of a percentage point.

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AstralExistence - Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:05 am

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exactly. i don't, nobody does. its was a number a previous posted posted. i didn't not post that number.

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CTStump - Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:09 am

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Where is that link?... there's going to be some interest in where that figure comes form.

Edit; found it semantics don't seem to be a solution to the argument just creates more confusion.

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LawrenceF - Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:11 am

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Fair enough. I just don't see the point of the whole thing, debating it's subjective value ... unless you're actually personally seeking a free DAW to use? If you are, there are a few good free ones out there to choose from...

Acid Express, S1 Free, Ardour, Podium Free, probably a few more I don't know about.

If you already have a DAW that you paid for that does much more for you than any free product could ever do for you, what's the point exactly?

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standalone - Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:44 am

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Oh, you speak the truth. You know, people who speak the truth always scare me.

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AstralExistence - Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:06 am

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its more a rant then a complaint. im just sick of all these daw companies stepping up to the 'altruistic' plate. with there free version for the 'less fortunate' trying to look like the good guy when in reality they couldnt care less about helping the less fortunate. instead there offering a product that is so obnoxiously limited it edges on spam.

i feel, if you want to offer something to people who couldn't otherwise afford it then just do so. don't offer something that nobody can use. offer something that has a value instead of something that is made to appear valuable.

it like me donating my hand to somebody who needs a hand transplant with 4 missing fingers. of course it makes me look like i care to help somebody else and or its the thought that counts but the truth is i just donated something thats completely useless to the person im giving it too. that is what the free version really are damn near useless.

and i have no problem whatever in pointing this out. because like i said before theres no such thing as a company that cares about you. a company invests far more money in the advertising of a good deed then in doing a good deed. many people cant see this but if you close your eyes and look past the 'good' deed you realize how truly selfish and sneaky this is. its giving in a selfish manor.

is it really necessary that i point this out? its not but i point this out because i feel its my duty and at least it will open your eyes next time you think "oh, how nice of them"

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braj - Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:23 am

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No it isn't necessary at all, I think most people know it was a marketing ploy. Where do they say they are doing it for charity anyway? And even though I now own Studio One I am going to put the free version on my son's computer, the living room computer, every computer I don't want to use up an activation on because even as a limited freebie, I am finding it useful and actually having lots of fun trying to get my own sounds out of Presence. Anyhow most everyone is somewhere between selfishness and selflessness, when some companies. I would feel like a hypocrite myself nitpicking other's motivations when my own are certainly mixed.

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jsp1979 - Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:28 am

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@AstralExistence

1. Presonus Free is usable to some. Just because it is not usable to you does not change this.

2. Presonus never said giving this version was an altruistic deed. I don't know where you got that from.

3. Most of your post is fighting a strawman. Free or lite versions of bigger products are clearly to advertise for the big product and encourage people to upgrade. I'd be shocked if you could find one person who thinks otherwise.

So, your preaching to those people who think commericial companies code for the good of humanity is time wasted. These people don't exist...but for some reason that doesn't stop you from continuing to type pointless rants to "educate us."

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koolkeys - Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:34 am

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Wow, comparing a free, no obligation, voluntary download product borders on spam? That's a new one to me.

I think criticism for the sake of improvement is great on a free product, but complaining because they didn't give you ENOUGH for free? Really?

Nobody at Presonus said they are doing this for those who are 'needy' or anything like that. They are giving you a free, feature-limited introduction to their commercial product. It's not new, it's not immoral, it's not unethical, and it's definitely not anywhere close to "spam". That's about the most ridiculous thing I've read in a while.

While you may somehow feel you are some kind of whistleblower for the rest of us, pointing out how Presonus really doesn't care, blah blah blah....you're not. Presonus is a business. They are in it to make money. No business survives without doing so. If you don't like what they give away for free, then why does it bother you so much? Can't you just move on without making up all the junk about screwing over the "less fortunate", when they have no obligation to give anything away in the first place?

It's really quite sad that somebody would take it that far, don't you think?

Brent

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AstralExistence - Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:53 am

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im freely entitled to my opinion. i said what i said, its how i feel, it is not directed to presonus but rather company altruism. which does not exist. lets not burn the witch. end of story. move on.

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braj - Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:59 am

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But your assuming it was altruism, I assumed it was marketing, and I think I'm more likely correct and it really wasn't a witch but your bitch that we were burning I have nothing against witches, nor female dogs either, but in my opinion your complaint has little merit. we are all entitled to our opinions.

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BERFAB - Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:15 am

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And, may I add, 99.9% of all statistics quoted on forum threads are made up...

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Tricky-Loops - Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:15 am

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Interesting in which direction the debate has gone...

Obviously the PreSonic Studio One Free is a marketing product, I've never doubted that. This is no charity action for the financially challenged or even poor people.

But there are possibilities to make DAW's affordable for people with less income - REAPER is one example of them. If you earn less than 20,000 $ a year (with the music production with REAPER), then you get REAPER at a more favorable price.

That could be a model for other companies, too.

If you want a DAW without money, there are alternatives, too, for example LMMS.

What angers me, is that suggestions are apparently not welcomed. I've criticized the lack of VST support and got no intelligent answer from PreSonus WHY they don't want to support it (in the free and the artist's version). I just got a harsh reply.

That's why I will not test or buy PreSonus Studio One.

But to think - as some do - that companies should give away free pro versions of their DAW for the less privileged people, that would never come up to my mind. Every one wants to survive (even if we die in the end, anyway) and everybody needs money. Unless you live in the Amazonas jungle and live from natural produce...

And BTW, a DAW, is it really necessary for surviving??

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AstralExistence - Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:18 am

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well, theirs an old saying, "majority wins" so if the majority feel im being shortsighted, and im wrong, then im wrong. thats right i said it. w-r-o-n-g. i can admit i was wrong, so thats that. i was wrong. the sun still comes up the next day and the kids come out to play. it wouldn't be the frist time i was wrong and it certainly wont be the last.

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AstralExistence - Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:25 am

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its actually an idea suggested many times. the closes is reaper under 20,000 or podium single core. that said, there is yet, no single free powerful daw. it would be awsome is there was a big boy free daw. the ink scape of illustrator, the gimp of photoshop. maybe one day it will happen.

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koolkeys - Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:25 am

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Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but you presented it as "truth". Your word, not mine. And you essentially made it a point to pretend the company is screwing over the "less fortunate" by not giving enough away for free, likening it to almost being "spam".

I'm entitled to my opinion as well, and I think that's pretty ridiculous in every way.

Brent

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AstralExistence - Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:27 am

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yeah, i think that would go along with, i was 'wrong' yep, pretty sure...

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koolkeys - Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:29 am

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But nobody here is talking about the criticism itself of the no VST limitation really. It's being assumed that there is something fishy going on when in fact, there isn't.

Why don't they want to support it? Because that's the limitation they chose. If they limited the track count, but allowed VSTs, somebody would complain that they need more tracks. If they made it unable to handle multi-core, but allowed VSTs and unlimited tracks, somebody would complain that they can't work with just a single core.

The point is, they are giving something away for free, take it or leave it. They chose the limitation, and if it's too much for a person, they are not out a single dime. And if they do want more features, they can support the company by purchasing the software. Right?

Brent

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AstralExistence - Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:32 am

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or you could let it drop, i mean you could do that too... i already said i was wrong

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Tricky-Loops - Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:33 am

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There is LMMS which is powerful, too. It's no big boy DAW yet but maybe some time it will be. I don't need it, but so far as I've heard it's a powerful DAW.

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AstralExistence - Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:34 am

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but no asio

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koolkeys - Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:36 am

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Well, I think you will find that software development teams are not anywhere near the scale of somebody like Adobe, and don't make nearly as much. So they won't be releasing something comparable themselves, obviously. So that leaves third parties to do so. But most of the time, including with GIMP and Inkscape, the free software isn't actually as good as the commercial software. In addition, it doesn't receive the support that the commercial software does. There is a reason for this, as you know. It takes a lot of time and money to maintain a complex application.

And what's ironic is that technically, no 100% free GPL program will legally be able to support VSTs out of the box because of the license restrictions in the VST developer agreement.

Personally, GIMP and Inkscape drive me nuts. I love that they are there, but I just can't work with them after using the Adobe suites for so long. And this leads to the main problem. People who use that software, in so many cases, keep asking for it to become like the "big boy" software, without realizing just how much of a time and money investment it is to create and maintain.

All this rambling just to say this; it doesn't happen because it's harder than people realize.

Brent

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