KVR :: MeldaProduction » MXXX testing/preset program [View Original Topic]
There are 65 posts in this topic.

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MeldaProduction - Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:17 am

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Hey folks, so, please here post any comments/problems regarding MXXX. This is obviously only for MXXX program participants . If you registered and you got no email, let me know .

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elassi - Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:49 am

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"... I hope everyone will be honest ..."

In every aspect, man.

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MeldaProduction - Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:10 am

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Good!

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Grodada - Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:13 pm

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I explore the interface, so many parameters, it will take a bit of time.
sliders are more appropriate for this interface. Good impression.

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abstractcats - Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:06 pm

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NICE! Posting screen shots of what we find, here is good?
Probably a dumb question....

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elassi - Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:35 pm

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Someone already tried the Modular-module...?

Fantastic! What a deep plugin...

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abstractcats - Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:55 pm

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OUCH!!! I'm sorry, What?? Quite a spike in volume, here. Indeed, should be a stunning plugin! 3:40 AM here. I'll report fully on Sunday after noon. Thanks for the opportunity, Vojtech!

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MeldaProduction - Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:47 am

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Yeah, sliders are definitely more appropriate, they will be default in the next build. Modular module... well... you will probably need to enlarge it a little bit

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whyterabbyt - Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:03 am

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Im finding straight away that its unusable in Bidule; both x64 and x86. As soon as you hook up any audio, Bidule flags it as problematic and auto-bypasses it. Ive tested that on two Win7 x64 systems.

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Michael1985 - Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:45 am

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First problem: The voice parameter of the chorus chances to fast if I turn.

Second, there should be on/off switches of the different devices and it should be possible to assign MIDI notes of the MIDI track to the on/off switches to "play" the effects like another multi effects like the finger or artillery 2.

I dont exactly know how to use the math tools, but I will get it, I just use it since yesterday

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elassi - Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:41 am

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Michael, right-click a device to find your on/off switch. Midi options can be configured via "Settings" in the top menu.

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FarleyCZ - Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:49 am

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Minor glitch: When saving preset and filling the info boxes, ctrl+alt+v or alt+v makes @, but also do pastes in whatever you coppied somewhere else by ctrl+c...

Also when re-saving opened preset it does wierd things, but didn't investigate this one further, so will report with some results lately.

Other than that, soundwise and behaviour-wise no problems so far. Ableton, Win7.

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elassi - Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:56 am

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+1 for weird active preset storing. Seems that using too many flags disturbs the saving process. Tried to store an empty preset for scratch start and flagged everything but this failed. Using less flags (only 1st column) worked.

@Vojtech: Posssible to add MNotepad to the devices? It comes a bit more handy than using only the notes provided while saving. I prefer to note what's going on in the Modulators and/or Multiparams especially in the designing process.

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Grodada - Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:21 am

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Oscillator is fatness, midi input enable + Mod enveloppe on dry
+ bandpass low(mod) = dubstep wooble bass hihihi.
On xp 32 sp3 and renoise, no problem so far.

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paterpeter - Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:26 am

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My first impression: potential EZmix killer! I'll have a blast digging through this baby and see what it can do.

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Grodada - Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:40 am

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it may bury several vst mix.

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abstractcats - Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:15 am

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Safe to assume that this means, you should not open plugins in the Sidechain area? But can a warning/stop in the sidechain section for the accidental opening of plugins be added? The noise sustained bursts could be bad for hearing/headphones/monitors. Even with the DAW volume set to near zero, its still super loud.


If you right click the image and select "view image" you can get a bigger view.

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abstractcats - Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:35 am

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YAY! I just crased FLS Using, Chorus and Harmonizer set to granulizer setting. I love grain synthesis! MXXX should be a great granulizing tool!

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satYatunes - Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:36 am

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First of all thanks for the opportunity. Just read the e-mail, downloaded, installed and registered. Loaded up in Sonar X1D and played around a little. Seems stable so far. I will post what I find here.

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rtkeeling - Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:55 am

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So far so good here with the VST3 version in FL Studio. This is a very cool plugin, and it's obvious that you've put a lot of work into it. Thanks for letting me help you create presets with it!

Roy

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MeldaProduction - Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:34 pm

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Ok folks, I'll try to respond to your questions:

- Bidule - I'll check.
- Voice parameter in chorus - what you mean by "fasten"?
- MIDI notes to trigger effects - check the supplied samples . It doesn't work like you want, but this method is more "general" and there are some technical reasons.
- ctrl+alt+v - yeah, well, I guess you have some installed addon, which makes the @, don't you?
- Preset storing & flags - ok I'll check, but do you have some kind of "defined behaviour"?
- EZMix killer - you bet!! That's obvious!!
- Sidechain area - no no, you can do anything there, but then right click on the plugin and set its input to something else.
- Crash using granular harmonizer - can you give me more info about that? I tried, but nothing so far. Try to reproduce it.

And folks, I see some of you are really interested in the Modular processor , please be careful with it .

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FarleyCZ - Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:54 pm

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Nope. But it could be system related somehow, I also heard Ableton has pretty wierd keyboard handling sometimes. Better wait for some Ableton confirmation.

Well in my case I opened already saved active preset, changed it and saved it under original name. It seemed like it overwrote the preset, but in preset selecting window was new one with no name (empty menu item) and the new settings.

Anyway congrats on amazing plugin! As I said on your Facebook. Like Zebra of FX world. Outstanding! This won't be just EZMix killa! Loving it already for some creative madness!!!

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rtkeeling - Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:07 pm

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With Ableton on Vista, I don't get @ when pasting. ctrl+v and ctrl+alt+v both paste okay. alt+v didn't do anything. I thought maybe you had some quirky behavior in the email field, but I didn't get an @ there either.

Roy

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visa tapani - Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:10 pm

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I've already emailed this to Vojtech, but I'll post it here as well, in case some folks here have some comments on the idea:

I'm suggesting a new processor/module: a dynamic- or transient-crossover. Basically this would divide signal into two, one being the louder/transient parts and the other the quieter/sustain parts. I noticed that by doing this manually with dynamic processors or with amplitude-followed gain modulation, it is difficult to get the amplitude to stay constant between the two signal strands (so there will easily be either drop-outs or unnaturally loud moments). Building this into a crossover would ensure that the overall amplitude would remain constant.

I suppose there would be different ways of approaching this - one would be by transient detection and another by loudness. Perhaps it could be two different modules, one with an approach similar to the Transient processor and the other similar to the Dynamics processor - but maybe it would be more convenient to build the functionality into a single module.

In any case I would argue this could be devastatingly useful, not only for esoteric creative effects but also for mixing tasks. After all, foreground-background -thinking is crucial to much sound-design and mixing and a processor like this would give great control over that. In many cases the background could be effected much more radically while still maintaining clarity (a bit like in M/S-processing).

Perhaps the simplest way to do it would be that behind the scenes there's a panner between two (stereo) channels. A threshold-parameter is used to control whether the signal is being directed into channel 1 or 2 - when it's under the threshold, it's going to 1 and over to 2. However, the attack and release parameters control how quickly the panning from ch 1 to 2 and vice versa happens - say, if attack is set to 100ms and release to 200ms, it smoothly pans from ch 1 to ch 2 during 100ms when the signal has gone over the threshold and from ch2 to 1 in 200ms once the signal has dropped below the thresh.

It could perhaps be enhanced with a Ratio parameter (or perhaps more appropriately min and max ratios), so that once the signal has gone over the threshold, if the ratio is set to 70%, 30% of the signal is still coming out of ch 1. Furthermore, many of the standard features of a dynamic processor, such as peak hold, look-ahead RMS length, knee size, side-chain input etc would still be applicable and useful. Finally, of course it could also divide the signal into more than two channels (say, with low- and high thresholds dividing the signal into 3), but it might be overcomplicating things.

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borkman - Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:22 pm

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I've noticed odd behavior with modulation when removing a processor. To reproduce:

1) Split into 2 bands using the main crossover
2) In the low band, add a Frequency Shifter
3) Modulate the Shift parameter and turn on the modulation
4) In the high band, add a Phaser

Everything is at it should be, with only Shift getting modulated.

6) Delete the Frequency Shifter

Note that the modulator is now modulating the Min frequency of the Phaser.

Other than this, Mxxx has been very stable for me in FL Studio 10. It's also been a lot of fun!

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elassi - Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:49 pm

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Exactly the same here (blank preset name). However I managed to successfully store a preset later on. I'll try to reproduce it next time.

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Panozk - Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:53 pm

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Hi to all,

PanozK here a humble sound designer,

I spend the day playing with MXXX by using it right away for the monster voices of an upcoming MMO I'm doing the sound.

Just my first report here,

The UX is great and the interface looks good without getting my eyes tired at all!

Its now very easy to make custom plugins, until now I was using either Plogue Bidule through REAPER's great routing facilities, or JS plugins I was making by combining scripts form other users. This one (MXXX)will be a blast!

I love that we can have a Modular module within another Modular, encapsulation rules!


Now I will tell you my big wish, as the plugin already captured my heart and my mind runs with the speed of light right now.
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As I do a lot of vocoding and spectral morphing (with other tools) in order to create voices of monsters from actors, it would be great to have a vocoder that can do pitch tracking of the modulator and pass it to the end result, thus keeping the spoken word physically into the right spoken pitches. This, together with a loop player (borrowed from the MDrummer) could be the ultimate vocoding tool. I also have a lot of personal generated loops that I use when vocoding or morphing for voices that it would be nice to be included on a closed file if distributed as presets for the MXXX.
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Now, I know that I'm running here, but as I too have a software development company, I really know that ideas are good to be noted way ahead

Other than that, the plugin looks great and I'm gonna enjoy using and testing it for sure!

Over and out for now, more news and reports later this week, probably with some samples of work in audio

Thank you for making so nice toys for us to play and create!

Cheers!

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abstractcats - Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:24 pm

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Hmm, I've tried to reproduce it but it seems to work ok now, may be an FLS thing. I'll post if it happens again.

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abstractcats - Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:18 pm

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A track I did in about 2007 Cleaned up with MXXX(Mixer and Dymanics)
http://soundcloud.com/abstractcats/phoenix-67-the-apiphany

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farfadetfarfelu - Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:54 am

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Wow is it monday already ? I've been in a time warp since MXXX has hit my mailbox.

MXXX has been very stable here with Repear and Usine (modular host in the fashion of plogue bidule).

FM in the mixer is a nice touch !

My only observation at present is about the feedback loop, for convenience and layout reasons, it might be better if the feedback rectangle thing in the grid can be inserted in line with an audio signal, and lets the regular audio signal run through it + add the feedback return tap, instead of just being the feedback return thing.

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MeldaProduction - Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:20 am

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Ok, folks, replying again:

- Dynamic crossover - added to to-do list.
- Modulation when removing processor - will check it out
- Vocoder - there's none yet, hmmm, anyway what you are describing is a normal vocoder or is there any specific feature (i'm a little lost in the description).
- Feedback - add "dry", understood - anything else? What you mean by add feedback return tap??

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whyterabbyt - Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:48 am

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Given that a vocoder is just N bands of the same filter->envelope extraction->filter chain, then could there be some 'smart' way to encapsulate an effects chain N times without having to manually duplicate it. Some sort of variation on Modular which ostensibly contains a given number of the same chain in parallel. That'd make Vocoders, and various other interesting creative tools, much easier to build.
(And if the chains had a notional 'index' which could be used as an internal variable you could use that to, eg, define the frequency band of an equally-spaced vocoder as 100Hz x index)

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Panozk - Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:38 am

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Something like this would be great: http://www.virsyn.de/en/E_Products/E_MATRIX/e_matrix.html

Off course I have never seen a good morphing effect like the one here: http://www.prosoniq.com/audio-plugins/prosoniq-morph/

The extra feature of a good sound design vocoder, used for game audio or films would be the ability to track the incoming pitch of the modulator and adapt it to the final signal in order to keep the vocoded result sound like spoken voice and not the steady pitched sound we used to hear from a vocoder. The Matrix from VirSyn does it with great results.

Cheers!

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farfadetfarfelu - Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:36 am

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Add dry, that was all i meant.

Something else : feedback sends go from 1 to 8, and the channels in the feedback return goes from 0 to 7.

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dhjdhj - Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:35 am

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After installing the Mac version, I found a file called update.cmd

I see what it is intended to do but for the Mac, there should not be an extension...windows batch files don't belong on Macs

More importantly, please consider setting up your own forum for this stuff....a single thread on KVR Forum is going to go out of control at some point, there will be way too much stuff for people to review.

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paterpeter - Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:41 am

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Maybe we can all just use this forum here, but prefix all thread titles related to MXXX with [MXXX]. A simple solution that doesn't require Vojtech to set up a new forum somewhere and us to register somewhere else.

But an actual issue tracker would maybe be even better.

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dhjdhj - Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:46 am

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Ouch --- it's worse .... I didn't realize you have your own file dialog window.
On a Mac, if you can't use the native dialogs, you should at least

a) Open to the user's home folder, not to root
b) Hide stuff that the Mac Finder usually hides such as folders that start with a period




-----------
I opened the activation dialog and saw a line that said

"Do you want to show the file explorer...."


On a Mac, this should really say

"Do you want to open Finder....."

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MeldaProduction - Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:58 am

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Yej, misnumbering

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MeldaProduction - Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:11 am

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Ok, and the rest of questions:

- file dialog - it will definitely stay this way, but I'll check for potential enhancements.
- forum - [MXXX] prefix sounds clever . I'm hesitating to make some dedicated forum or anything to avoid managment stuff and I have a blind hope there won't be many problems .
- vocoder - definitely the modular stuff not, it's impossible at the moment. Anyway I need to get some info about vocoders, because quite frankly i don't know much and i don't like them . Anyway to track input pitch you can already use each modulator.

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Panozk - Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:16 am

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The modular stuff is not good for me also, I was thinking of a vocoder effect ready to be inserted in the matrix together with a sample loop playback module to go into there.

The pitch tracking should be applied to the end result of the vocoder output and get its info from the input of the modulator signal.

I can see why you don;t like vocoders, maybe you have them linked in your mind with the lame effect of 80's music (lame for now). With pitch tracking you can do so much more. Imagine having a loop of a lion snarling and gnarling and pas this as a carrier signal, then put your actor to speak and you get a lion talking, its ultra cool for film and game audio!

Cheers!

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MeldaProduction - Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:20 am

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I guess. Anyway can you give me a quick inside about how the virsyn stuff works? Just asking 'cos you seem to know lots about it, while I ehm don't .

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Michael1985 - Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:28 am

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Now I have tested the MXXX Multieffekt and here are my results and suggestions:

First a bug:
-If i open the modular system and open a device inside the modular system, it is not seen the parameter

Furthermore I cannot assign a MIDI note to the multiparameter, even it is set on "switch" or "trigger" mode. It is seen in the MIDI preferences as example as "MIDI note C1 is triggering multiparameter 1" but if I press on my keyboard it is not working.

-the lfos are not retriggered by midi, it would be cool if there is a possibilitie to let retrigger the lfos through the MIDI notes of an incoming vsti.



So far...

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Panozk - Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:24 am

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I don't aim for a specific design as in a product, mostly the features I gave you on the previous post.

Allow me to make a schematic and send it to you, you prefer mail or I can post it here?

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elassi - Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:53 am

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But it's still soooo typical sounding... ;(

Btw, drop me a PM if you're interested in getting Eiosis Vocoder (which is quite versatile) for a human & friendly price. I'm so fed up with vocoder sound...

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abstractcats - Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:54 am

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GUI Text issue:
Sorry if this has been noted. I'll have a good re read of the thread to day

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Svama - Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am

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Hi Vojtech and Forum people,

i wanna build a duck delay for a vox preset, but I don't get it work.

What do I need besides Delay and Compressor (sidechain)? I tried a long time, but it doesn't work.

Thanks and greetings

Marek

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farfadetfarfelu - Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:16 am

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You want to turn the delay down when the voice speaks ?
You could use an enveloppe mod to detect the side chain input.
Then connect the enveloppe mod to the volume and other parameters you want to control in the delay...

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farfadetfarfelu - Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:25 am

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Vojtech, i noticed when turning on and of a mod by hand the parameter goes back to its default value. Good.
But when a multiparameter is setup to turn a mod on and off, it does not go back to its default value. Is that normal ?

Also the delay module doen't have the global parameters (wet/dey) like the other modules.

It would be nice if the pitch tracker mod could use the sidechain and feedback inputs.

I'm really having a lot of fun with the feedback, it's like going back to my days of DIY effects pedal building and circuit bending.

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visa tapani - Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:07 pm

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I agree that some kind of morphing effect would make sense in MXXX actually, considering that those kind of effects tend to require certain flexibility of routing which MXXX obviously already has covered.

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abstractcats - Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:04 pm

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In Utility- the samples knob take a few re possisionings of the mouse to get it from 0 to 10000. I've had this with other knobs as well. Hmm. I think the slider are indeed the better way to go at this point. I still like the sliders better I think any way, they are part of what I loved about Melda's GUI in the first place. Still loving MXXX

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MeldaProduction - Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:31 am

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What do you mean by that??



Please check the last multieffect sample. And ensure you are correctly routing MIDI to the plugin in your host.




But it is there! You just need to enable it and disable sync of course.

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MeldaProduction - Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:44 am

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Ok, another set of replies (maybe we shall start the [MXXX] prefixed threads

- GUI - yes, please use the sliders, there's just no way to fit the knobs sometimes.
- Multiparameter default restore - no I'm afraid. it's for LFOs only, because with multiparameters you just control other parameters, but LFOs do that on their own, so you cannot control the changes.
- Delay dry/wet - indeed, I'll check it.
- Pitch tracker sidechain/feedback - ok.

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abstractcats - Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:14 am

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Huge request...may be??

Undo/redo just about every thing??

Its one of the things I love about FXpansion's stuff.

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Satch1 - Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:29 am

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Hello everyone, and thanks Vojtech for approving me to beta test MXXX.

I've only just managed to spend some time with MXXX and I'm blown away by the sheer flexibility of it. This is an extremely exciting piece of software. Congrats and thanks Vojtech. Can't wait to start designing some presets.

I've noticed a couple of issues though:

1) When scrolling up and down in the plugin windows that require it, my cpu takes a pretty big hit, e.g 15% to around 35%, then returns when I stop. I'm using Reaper 32bit on WinXP with an Intel Quad core 3.0Ghz processor. This cpu usage is being shown by both Reaper's overall cpu and windows Task Manager, but not by Reaper's plugin window.

2) After moving a multiparameter control there is always a glitch in the audio. This happens on both the macro page and the edit page.

Can anyone confirm these issues at all? Thanks

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Grodada - Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:52 am

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have the sugestions, Just two comments:
more multiparameter's modes, for example a keybord gui with multi range assignation
or(and) a track-bar with 8 (16) steps.
Secondly, deserves some effects modules separated to gain overall clarity.
I continue to look for ideas presets and to search bug.

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elassi - Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:47 am

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Can't confirm, sorry. :-/

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Svama - Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:49 am

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Hello again,

I spend hours to get a duck delay, but it doesn't work.
Can someone send an image to show how to configure it. I don't understand how to use the sidechain function.

What i tried:

1. Delay
2. Modular
3. Compressor in Modular 1 with sidechain.

Pleas help me.

Thanks and greetings

Marek

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Satch1 - Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:57 am

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I've just solved the problem. I set MXXX to save minimal undo states. This is in the compatibility settings menu in the Reaper fx window.

Thanks for testing this out anyway. Have you tested the scrolling issue?

Just open Rhythmizer and move the scroll bar on the right up and down. You should get a cpu increase.

Cheers

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elassi - Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:08 pm

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You're probably thinking too complicated.

- Enable MXXX on the track that has to be duck-delayed
- In MXXX just insert a delay in path 1 (nothing else)
- Set and activate "Mod1"
- In the Modulator1 panel choose "Follower", turn "Use side-chain" on (small knob under the AR- and levels block).
- Press "+" in the Parameters-section and select (preferably) "Gain"-parameter of Delay-Tap1; set it to a usable value
- Route something to the side-chain input of your original track right into MXXX
- You should see the "Gain"-Param (or what you've choosen) moving
- Refine the settings of Mod1 by adjusting the AR-values and other options

I'd give you screenshots but have no (hassle-free) option to upload them. Maybe someone (Abstracats?) can help here?

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abstractcats - Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:40 pm

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Hmm, not really very familiar with doing duck delay, but it would be good to learn, I'll give it a run, it might take a bit of time, I'll post an image or two when I get a chance.

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abstractcats - Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:45 pm

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ABCD Morphing is great, very responsive but needs to be much smoother. It seems to stutter(normally, something I love ) as I drag it and the audio generated seems a bit gittery as well. On presets provided from Melda, the CPU seems very good for me. Should be a standard to watch when creating my own presets.

Note to self: next hardware needs to have a good XY pad.

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elassi - Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:47 pm

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Misunderstanding. Just asked if you'd up the screenshots on your webspace.

But let's wait if he's successful with the given description itself.

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abstractcats - Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:55 pm

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Yeah, no problem, if its needed, just pm me and I'll give the my email address and then I'll upload it and just re post here.

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abstractcats - Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:24 pm

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Here is one, any one getting a delay with a slight pan effect after working with controls and then adjusting the multiparameters? I cant get it to do this consistently, it seems to come after working awhile but not always.

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MeldaProduction - Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:02 pm

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OK FOLKS, THIS THREAD IS DEFINITELY OUT OF CONTROL NOW , SO PLEASE CREATE NEW THREAD BEGINNING WITH "[MXXX]" SINCE THIS MOMENT AND COPY THE ORIGINAL QUESTION IF NECESSARY.

Now I'll answer the remaining questions:
- Undo - I'm afraid not possible, this is just too big...

- Scrolling CPU spikes - yes, that's normal, it's just rendering, actually in your case - aren't you using an onboard graphics card?

- Multiparameter glitches - I hope not! It is possible for certain combinations when you change some parameters that take lots of CPU to update, but normally it shouldn't.

- "more multiparameter's modes, for example a keybord gui with multi range assignation or(and) a track-bar with 8 (16) steps." - sorry I don't really understand what you mean, I don't understand the other idea either "deserves some effects modules separated to gain overall clarity"

- Sidechain compressor - use "Dynamics", "Compressor" is a very simple thing more like optimized for CPU than for audio quality or versatility.
ellasi posted an idea how to do that with modulators - yes it is possible, but it will take way more CPU and the audio quality will probably be worse as well (or at least the follower won't be that quick).

- ABCD morphing - uuuu, I didn't even dare to try yet , that must take so much CPU... well, depending on how complicated scheme you create .

- "delay with a slight pan effect after working with controls and then adjusting the multiparameters" - what??? don't really understand that one.

Please always when reporting a bug try to find a consistent way to simulate it.

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There are 65 posts in this topic.