KVR :: Instruments » How do you make your beats? [View Original Topic]
There are 52 posts in this topic.

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Harry_HH - Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:22 am

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I guess this depends partly on the genre you are working with.
But I'd like to about your drum track production practicies:
which of the follwing (or something else) you use mostly, which one(s)
sometimes:

1. "Old school" beat production stations (such as AKAI XR20)
2. Sequencer software + ready made samples (or partly programming)
3. Generic drum plugins (such as BFD)
4. Spesific beat station plugins (such as Motu bpm 1.5)
5. Drum machines or synths
6. Real drums
7. (something else, what?)

Please mention also the genre(s) you are working with.

Harry

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damoog - Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:29 am

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nothing beats reasons kong and redrum for beat making...everything just 'locks in' if you know what i mean

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Blue Wind Project - Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:16 am

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Number 2 for ambient/dark ambient.

I use FL Studio and I usually
pick the sampler then load a sample
in the channel. Then use another channel
for a different drum sound and so on
untill I have a beat constructed.

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samsam - Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:32 am

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None of the options work for me or I'd imagine most people who use samples. I use Live plus sampled one shots, either in Sampler or using the individual wavs directly in Arrangement View. Most of the samples I either layer (like 3 snares) and process.

So samples like num. 2 but I wouldn't call them either 'ready made' or 'partly programming".

DnB, dubstep, house, tech, allsorts.

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Nig - Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:37 am

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FXpansion Geist and a Korg PadKontrol

Lots of fun beat making with that combo

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justin3am - Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:38 am

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Pretty much all of the above.
I use Superior Drummer 2 for a lot of acoustic drum sounds.
An Octatrack for sampling on the fly and manipulating samples.
An MFB-503 for analog drum sounds.
I use Battery 3 and Ableton's Drum Racks for creating kits based on samples and software instruments.
Most of the drum loops and samples I use are from sessions I recorded using real drum kits (that someone else played).
I use my V-Synth for processing drum samples.
I use Bazille, Zebra and Microtonic for synthesizing drum sounds.

I don't ever work within a single genre, unless you consider "weird" a genre.
I think that different tools are suited for different results/approaches and no one tool is perfect for everyone.

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thecontrolcentre - Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:08 am

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Most of the loops in my music are from my own recordings of acoustic drums (not played by me). I also use Ableton Live's Drum Racks and Sampler to build kits (acoustic and electronic) from recordings I've made. I use a Dark Energy, Teisco 60F and Opus 3 to create my synthesized drum sounds. I usually have a loop as the foundation of the beat, and build it up with extra one-shots (usually kick, snare, hi-hat), and then chop, slice, mash until it's right.

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MDMK - Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:15 pm

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From 2. to 5.
I use everything from samples and loops to a hardware synth. For several months I've been mainly using Rob Papen's Punch in combination of sampled one shots or looped percussive patterns. Sometimes I use noise gate to make percussion loops sound more choppy. Sometimes I use sampled drum plugins like Drummix layered with a punchier electronic kick, if I wan't to add a more realistic component to the drum track. I recently bought FXPansion's Geist and an Akai MPD32 controller and love 'em both. But I guess I'm still gonna use Punch a lot to synthesize perfect kicks etc.

If you need an inspiring tool to use, I'd recommend Geist with a good pad controller like the Akai MPD. It's just insane how those can boost your creativity, and do it while being pure fun.


Genre: electro house, dubstep and dance.

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Tricky-Loops - Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:46 pm

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I like to have every element of the beat in one track (in a sampler or on the track itself) and all together in a group (or even sub groups). So I can process every element differently. I can use FX that nobody has in their drum samplers.

Unfortunately, this costs much of CPU power and in the end I have to bounce it. Therefore sometimes I use ready drum loops to save CPU power.

But nowadays there are so much samplers out there, that it would even be possible to have the whole beat in one track and process the elements in the sampler itself.

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michael2 - Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:09 pm

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i kind of suck at analog drum emulations and I like pop music (classic not current - 60's, 70's and 80's pop), indie, downtempo and psych. since i can never get the sound I would with a band (it's just me here most of the time), I like to mix and match and i'm working on blending all of the things i ever loved into my own sound (thankfully i have until the end of time to figure that one out). kind of a digital pop ambient thing.

using:
ezdrummer
ultrabeat
EXS24 with samples i have accumulated and made from various sounds
loops I make (most of the time i make loops on my phone or my ipad)
i have Geist (the free CM edition), but haven't really used it alot, and I'm waiting for mini spillage 2 to come out (still using the old freebie of mini spillage).

on the ipad/phone I mainly use:
imaschine
Funkbox
DM1
Stochastik

i also have a bunch of percussion, hand drums and toys that belong to my kids lying around the house. these will end up in a lot of songs. will usually make a loop from these things and then build around it. i like them to sound kind of lo-fi amidst the nicer sampled/synthesized sounds.

really I like using samples for some reason, and then playing with effects to get a different sound. looking forward to seeing what everyone does (always hunting for new ideas).

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pdxindy - Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:59 pm

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I use Geist to sample my synths... then I use Geist and/or Live Drum Racks combined with some live playing so it sounds fluid and organic. I use various techniques to create rhythm and rarely have a standard drum track... Geist is much fun!


Music wise I tend towards ambient, poly-rhythmic, hard to define meanderings and musings... I've done a fair bit of soundtrack stuff for video.

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Harry_HH - Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:24 pm

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Good to get response concerning this - it would be nice to know how representative our answers are (e.g. comparing to the KVR population).

So far a couple of questions have risen according to your replies:

1. Because Geist is mentioned in several answers, I'd like to know what kind of music genre you produce wiht using the Geist and how
would you compare e.g. Geist to Motu bpm etc. similar?

2. If your genre is hip hop, house, dance etc., the first in my lis (old school beat production stations)used to be absolutely dominant for some years ago (also nowdays when I see these artist working, this is very much used tool. According to your obserbation, is this
the case anymore, and what are the main tools and the "latest trend"
inside this genre? Harry

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pdxindy - Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:26 pm

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Similar yes... but if you are interested to create your own content, Geist is superior to BPM... BPM is more about its own library, which is bigger than Geist. (very quick synopsis)

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C-note - Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:53 pm

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Geist, Nerve, Battery and Tremor through/ with Maschine

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leggie - Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:57 pm

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Micro tonic and Jamstix

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djshire - Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:41 pm

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Logic ES2.

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gtg605 - Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:59 pm

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At the risk of being seen as a troll I dare this:
I use my fingers. I load drum sounds and play them with my fingers on the keyboard.Is that weird?
I like to have full control of my sounds, and I usually edit each drum sound to my liking and add effects etc. to every single sound.
With my layered drumsounds I create loops and grooves for further use manually.

Are people just using pre-recorded loops?
Just asking, because I didn't think so.
I always play drumtracks live with my fingers on the keyboard, pattern by pattern.Then edit individual notes if neccesary.

But maybe thats not the case normally?

Interesting if not. ( Aren't you afraid to sound like everybody else? )

Best regards.

Mik

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illkind - Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:09 pm

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+1 on Maschine...recently picked one up and it revolutionized my workflow with beat making. Love it.

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quayquay17 - Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:23 pm

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I use one shots for my drums.

When I don't have musical inspiration I do sound design. I use cheapo/free VA synths to make zips, zaps, blonks and baps. I use my mic to record thwacks, pings, and clacks, I layer, effect, and EQ, then save it all to my audio drive.

Then say i'm working on a song and need a nice loud snare:
samples > homemade > drums > snares > big > thwack.wav

Other times I use one shots from sample packs, organized similarly, and sometimes I layer or mix and match.
Then I drop the sample into ableton's drum rack, sometimes add a delay, reverb, or saturator, throw a compressor on the bus, and leave the rest for mixing.


Korg nanopad + ableton's drum rack + samples.

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Moe Shinola - Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:19 pm

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Either Orion's Drumrack or Session Drummer 3 in Sonar with Groove Monkee MIDI loops. Orion's Sampler is good for slicing a loop and then triggering the slices manually w/ the keyboard at whatever tempo you want. ArcDev H4xx0r is awesome for moving the start and end points of loop slices around, reversing them, whatever, then pitching one slice an octave down. You can play this slice manually on your keyboard with the other slices and make some real trippy beats.

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risome - Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:56 pm

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I drop one shot drum samples straight in Lives arrangement page eq each one ,layer slide around with grid off till i get a good feel and beat happening

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synthgeek - Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:11 am

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I use a combination of synthesized sounds, one-shot samples, and (manipulated) loops. Not really sure what I'd say for genre - definitely electronic, and I guess my drums especially tend to be industrial and d&b influenced... lots of found-sound & sampled and/or synthesized noise percussion, sampled loops/breaks, fx on everything, etc.

Synthesized sounds can come from any synth really, but some of my favorite dedicated drum synths are Drumular, the Ironhead: Spawn bundle, Drumatic, and xoxos' stuff.

Samples likewise come from all over - commercial samples, hardware drum machines, stuff from around the house which I bang on, my drummer friend, layered synth/sample stuff, etc. One-shots usually get loaded into Shortcircuit, I don't really use a dedicated drum sampler/beat machine. Nothing against them, my money's just gone elsewhere, and I don't feel like it's something I need.

I often use LiveSlice for loop manipulation, though I'm just as likely to import a sample directly to a Reaper track & chop by hand. I generally use LiveSlice when I want only some single hits out of a loop or if I want to completely rearrange things, and go for the regular track import for "normal" d&b-style breakbeat chopping & manipulation.

Programming is done via piano roll when possible. Not having a pad controller, I use a keyboard when I want to play stuff in. I'm seriously considering getting a pad controller of some kind though, we'll see. I'd really love an actual electronic kit, but I don't have the room.

I tend to work in passes, starting off with say, a 4-bar loop - copy a few times, work in some details (more layers, accents, fills, etc.), move to next section and repeat. I'll go back & forth between the drums & other parts of the track as I build different sections, and then go back a few times once the entire basic arrangement is settled & fill in more details. I also do a lot of track bouncing at different times during the process for further audio tweakery.

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sjm - Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:41 am

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I sometimes do that, but I'm not very good at it. I had a friend who was a wiz at playing drums on the keyboard. There are videos on youtube of some people who are fantastic at drumming this way (or using an MPC).

I don't think it's weird, just not as easy as programming them directly for most people.

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jacqueslacouth - Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:47 am

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I really don't make beats, I really am generally happy with off the shelf drum loops or preset patterns in my various software packages. I might use a couple of variations within a song if supplied, however, I am far more focussed on melody and hopefully finding the hook for a song. The beats just hold the song together for me and help keep in time. I like BFD Eco, iDrum, EZ Drummer and uTonic.

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BDeep - Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:39 am

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I mostly make tech(house)-y music, I use some one shot samples (sometimes edited/mangled in an editor) which I load into Minispillage2, and maybe layer with them with a synthesized drum sound. The rest comes from Drumspillage.

I program the beats directly into Logic parts, I feel I have more control over the composition this way (although sequencers integrated in drummachines should provide the same level of control - it's just a matter of workflow).
I sometimes use a Korg Nanokey to tap in some parts.

I'm seriously tempted by AAS Chromaphone by the way, for more natural and tuned percussion...

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whitecloud - Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:16 am

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Since my music is all over the map and I am mainly a Guitarist that happens to love synths I will do either one of the two below.
1.EZ Player Pro into SSD 3.5. If you start using the tracks available in the
arrangement window and not just using the midi files in the browser, you can really make things more interesting. This approach would be for natural sounding drums
2.Akai MPD32-Geist. This way is relatively new for me, but I have to say I
really enjoy the process. With my recent purchases of both Soft and Hardware
synths and buying Geist, my guitars aren't getting played as much lately......

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Waker - Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:52 am

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BFD 2 with the cheap Roland HD1 if I want "real" drums.

Maschine/battery/Kontakt for one shots.

Stylus rmx is my loop player of choice.

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Harry_HH - Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:44 pm

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This is absolutely what I believed majority of (at least so called home studio producers) us do - I include to "making beats" also drum samples/loops, ready-made midi pattern libraries etc.
What I originally wanted to know was 1) what are the MAIN working flows and methods for creating drum-rhytm track, 2) what tools/libraries you use, latest trends etc - all this connected to the genre you are working with.

So far I've seen interesting comments in the thread, although statistically as said I believe that majory of us (=KVR users) uses mainly "ready-made" samples/midi files + drum modules/plugins (I wonder if I'm right or wrong but this is my hypothesis). But despite these ready-made things, what's make the difference, is HOW these presets and modules are used, connected together, tailored and refined. (Of course e.g. real drummists are a different thing but very seldom the home studios can have a luxury of a drum boot/drummist.)

The end result is what counts - two person using same tools (plugins, samples,midi files, sequencers, synths) can get totally diifferent quality. The core of the state or art is combination of creative use of different tools, technical skills and - pure work, i.e. time spend with the rhytm track.

Harry

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Acid Mitch - Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:06 pm

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I use TR-909 and MPC60. I'm mostly making house/techno/acid.

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BASSDRIVE - Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:21 pm

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Mainly one shots and a few vst synths. I use FL Studio to sequence.

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T-CM11 - Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:35 am

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Microtonic
Drumaxx
RM IV
Waldorf Attack
Alchemy
Single Shot samples in FL Studio channel sampler/FPC
Recording Slim Phatty or field recorder sounds, or just resampling whatever and sequencing it with FL Slicex.
Mouse programming or playing with a Korg Pad Kontrol.

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buttrock - Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:55 am

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Like I make love: Slow but hard!

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Harry_HH - Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:31 am

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No tempos over 90 bpm? I.e. just ballads, slow walze and similar? H.

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T-CM11 - Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:37 am

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Or Ambient, Industrial, Experimental, ... etc.
Lots of things can be made with slow tempos.

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Harry_HH - Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:47 am

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Yes, that was my "similar"
But the challenge is that many bandmates (and even yourself) want it more uptempo sometimes, at least just for change, according to my experience.
But maybe this "slow" concerns just the process, not the tempo. H.

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buttrock - Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:17 am

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I was just being silly.
Actually I use Geist, Flstudio's Sequencer or I put the Samples directly on Audiotracks and arrange things there. I have some Samplepacks from Wave Alchemy,Goldbaby and Driven Machine Drums. 80 to 140 Bpm most of the time. Genres: mostly Dubstep and some "experimental" Techno/House, Witchhouse, instrumental HipHop ....

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Mac of BIOnighT - Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:00 pm

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I was beginning to think I was the last one on Earth to do this. No offence meant to anyone, but - quite honestly - I find it totally depressing that a question like that only finds as answers a list of programs and methods (not to mention loops), and not a single "musical" answer. Not one. Just my point of view.

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knobs - Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:01 pm

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theres nothing more "musical" about triggering drum sounds on a keyboard than
triggering loops off one.

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quayquay17 - Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:14 pm

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Instead of launching a debate on the "musicality" of premade drums vs making your own, let's continue on OP's path.

OR we could talk about "flexibility" and "originality"
unlike the term "musical" it's a little more concrete, making your own beats is far more flexible, and often more original. It certainly takes some practice, but I can now convincingly drum with my fingers and pads.

(much better than i can with a kit )

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Mac of BIOnighT - Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:38 pm

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there's nothing more "musical" about triggering string vibrations on a piano keyboard while composing than pressing the play button on a CD player. Sure.

In any case, that's not at all what I meant. What I meant is that I found in these answers - like I do, quite honestly, in most of what kids do today (yes, I'm getting old and grumpy, and so what?) - way too much technicality and technology and didn't feel any emotional response in them (with all due exceptions). But obviously my comment was taken as a technical/technological criticism, which actually confirms my opinion.

Anyway, everybody's free to do whatever they want as long as they feel good about it and it doesn't hurt anybody unnecessarily. And music is a different thing to everybody anyway.
Peace.

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Mac of BIOnighT - Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:40 pm

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Exactly. That and more.

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michael2 - Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:04 pm

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i didn't answer the question in this fashion as I interpreted his question as "what do you make beats with?" didn't even cross my mind really. I roll my own beats too for the most part. i occasionally use premade loops as a part of the whole, but generally I will create my own loops with the software I listed, or I will load samples (some I make, some are found, some are purchased) into EXS24 and either play or program beats. generally I will play acoustic sounding beats, and program electronic stuff.

used to dread making beats before I actually sat down and started working on it. now it's one of the most fun parts of the project.

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Harry_HH - Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:04 pm

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See my last post on the page 2.
I don't see function of this thread at all defining what is "wrong" or "false", "more musical" etc. We have nowdays so many different option in creating drum track (which is good) that combination of different methods is most typical. The end result is always what counts. I was mainly interested in knowing about the workflows and latest tools, without thinkigns that some method is "better" than the other (The role of the drums/rhythm depends also very much of the music genre. I have to say that if you look back e.g. 30 years, I think that the option of diffrent tools creating the rhytm track is increased much more than the quality of end result. H.

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Mac of BIOnighT - Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:51 am

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I agree on the fact that the question was more about the tools than anything, so my reaction might seem out of place, and maybe it is.
But it was motivated by:


That, basically. Only, in my opinion, that goes for music in general. Whenever I talk with an electronic musician (especially a young one) and get him talking about his own music, all I get is a list of programs, methods and tools. I never (never!) hear anything about his purposes and emotional needs, I never hear about an emotion or an experience that pushed him into creating a certain piece of music or anything. All I get is his software and tools, nothing deep, nothing higher, nothing. It's the tools that use him, not the other way round as it should be. It's like talking to a factory machine, whose only purpose is churning out and endless stream of pieces the way others programmed it to and as similar as possible to all other machines'.

Therefore, I'm at the point that whenever I see a list of tools, I get this allergic reaction, some days worse than others. Yesterday it was worse.

So please do ignore my rants and answer the OP's question, I'll take my complaints about the world out in the sun that we finally have today.

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trimph1 - Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:56 am

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Ummm...recording my own drums

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debra1rlo - Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:04 am

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I make my beats so phat they're obese.

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trimph1 - Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:10 am

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So, they're obeats?

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thecontrolcentre - Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:14 am

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My beats are so fat they'll mug you for your lunchbox

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quayquay17 - Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:58 am

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Mac, I think that's more down to the culture of their music and the amount of technical knowledge necessary. Back in the golden days, an artist didn't NEED to know about compressor ratios, phase, stereo placement, etc. Their head could focus purely on writing music and the headspace that accompanies that. These days, young musicians have much more to be conscious of, and are always learning. Therefore they dedicate much more headspace to tech.

I'm sure if computers didn't exist and young electronic musicians just had an analog synth, drumkit, and 4 track, they would be much less technical and "heartless"

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Mac of BIOnighT - Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:48 pm

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I see what you mean and up to a degree I agree with you, however... I really don't want to move the discussion into territories that perhaps do not belong in a forum like this, but I most definitely do think that it is ALWAYS a matter of choice and what kind of human being you want to be. Being heartless is a choice. If somebody gets run over by a car and dies, you can either see if you can help and if you can't, you can understand the horror of it and imagine the pain of the people who loved that person and show respect. Or you can take a picture with your phone and share it with your "friends" on facebook. It is a choice and it is your responsibility. What truly and profoundly horrifies me about today's world is this process of de-responsibilization that's been going on and getting worse for way too many years now. Nobody is ever responsible whatever they do, the fault is always with the family, the school, society, somebody else. My ass, if you pardon my French. Everybody is fully responsible for their actions, because there is always a choice, and what one does is their own responsibility, not somebody else's fault (except for some terrible cases, of course).
Being an empty, heartless buyer who shows off his toys (or whose toys show off through him, as is mostly the case) instead of a musician (or anything else, including a human being) is most definitely a choice, and society is not good enough an excuse because everybody has a brain they can make choices with...

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glokraw - Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:18 pm

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If you have or get an old Yamaha XG/PSR keyboard, most allow layering two instruments, so choose 2 different drumkits as the instruments (there will be many duplicate samples) and then put one of them on one of the two alternate octaves, putting 2 different samples on each keypress (effectively replacing duplicates with multi-samples)
Now if you use the XG 'harmony settings, which actually are rythmic repeats,
nothing harmonic, you can go hog wild with the fingerdrumming. Various XG/PSR
keyboards also have various reverb, chorus, delay etc. Maxing out the
XG windchime is great fun, among many others.
Happy Easter, to KVR

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hailduong - Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:16 am

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There are some tutorials here about making beats: http://www.realmusicmaker.com/make-your-own-beats/

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There are 52 posts in this topic.