KVR :: Everything Else (Music related) » Most solid, reliable, bug-free, indie VST developers with excellent customer service? (EDIT) [View Original Topic]
There are 29 posts in this topic.
optofonik - Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:52 pm
What independent developers are consistently releasing the most bug-free, solid, reliable, VST compatible, software instruments, fx, and processors and have the best customer service reputations?
I'd like to concentrate on the best and brightest and ignore the rest so things can stay positive. I'd like to omit freeware developers even though I know there are some great developers in that category. I'm looking to buy from independent developers who are making great commercial software from the ground up with solid code that can be counted on to provide a trouble-free user experience.
Thanks in advance.
miedex - Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:02 pm
Spend some quality dedicated time thoughtfully monitoring the communities and all shall be revealed and then you can say the same about yourself as you require from others.
metamorphosis - Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:08 pm
miedex wrote:
Spend some quality dedicated time thoughtfully monitoring the communities and all shall be revealed and then you can say the same about yourself as you require from others.
wtf?
optofonik - Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:17 pm
metamorphosis wrote:
wtf?
+1
miedex - Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:27 pm
optofonik wrote:
metamorphosis wrote:
wtf?
+1
To clarify, it is ironic that you require no corners of quality cut but go about your quest in the biggest corner cutting way.
It seems like 90% of the developers discussed on KVR are indie and probably 90% of those provide high quality products and services. So it seems kind of fruitless to try and divine that kind of list.
optofonik - Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:43 pm
Miedex, thanks for the thoughtful reply. Duly noted. Much appreciated. Very helpful indeed.
Kind regards.
geroyannis - Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:54 pm
Thanks, I learned a new word, "pithy". I like the way it sounds.
EDIT: This awesome word, pithy, was in optofonik's above post but it has been edited at least twice so far. It seems I was one of the few lucky ones to see it.
optofonik - Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:20 pm
geroyannis wrote:
Thanks, I learned a new word, "pithy". I like the way it sounds.
EDIT: This awesome word, pithy, was in optofonik's above post but it has been edited at least twice so far. It seems I was one of the few lucky ones to see it.
EDIT: This awesome word, pithy, was in optofonik's above post but it has been edited at least twice so far. It seems I was one of the few lucky ones to see it.
It's true. Upon re-reading my initial reply I thought if overly harsh and edited it accordingly.
aciddose - Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:39 pm
i do that constantly. it would be much better if the preview mode saw more use.
it is a bit silly of a request you're posting though.
i've seen crashes and ridiculously bad implementations from every developer out there.
sometimes the most reliable tool for the task might be a synth-edit plugin.
"indie" doesn't really work because 100% of all plugins are written by small teams at most, and generally by single programmers.
you have to be a lot more specific.
do you mean privately distributed products registered to / licensed by a sole-proprietorship or individual rather than a corporation?
that changes things - they become more like 10%.
optofonik - Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:45 pm
aciddose wrote:
...do you mean privately (coded and*) distributed products... licensed by a sole-proprietorship or individual rather than a corporation?
Sure. Why not.
*My edit
tony tony chopper - Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:49 pm
Quote:
"indie" doesn't really work because 100% of all plugins are written by small teams at most, and generally by single programmers.
for once we agree
Audio stuff is a niche, even more for plugins, every team is independent - to start with, what would they be dependent to?
aciddose - Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:03 pm
optofonik wrote:
(coded and*)
Sure. Why not.
*My edit
Sure. Why not.
*My edit
all of them are "privately coded".
so let's be specific - you want code that is written outside of any sort of contract.
do you also want to limit the amount of externally sourced code (libraries, etc) in the product?
if so now you're in territory where you can't find the answers. you couldn't even easily figure this out if you wrote the product yourself.
you'd have to be 100% certain you never wrote derivatively, which means never read any other source from anything at any time.
this is pretty much impossible.
honestly if you look at the commercial closed-source code in most products you could easily find license violations and derivatives. if you had super powers (god?) and could examine the history of all authors you would definitely find tons of interconnecting derivation lines.
this is actually one major reason most commercial products are closed source. open-source is a liability.
the other reason is just a branch from that - you put yourself at a huge disadvantage when you expose yourself while everybody else does not. anybody could take your source code use it while you'd never know and never have any recourse.
Cordelia - Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:22 pm
The only plugins I have used that have been truly trouble free, nearly bug free, with excellent sound, good GUI, hassle free copy protection, regular updates, great dev, not one complaint, are Voxengo plugins:
www.voxengo.com
The dev is Aleksey Vaneev.
optofonik - Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:24 pm
Cordelia wrote:
The only plugins I have used that have been truly trouble free, nearly bug free, with excellent sound, good GUI, hassle free copy protection, regular updates, great dev, not one complaint, are Voxengo plugins:
www.voxengo.com
The dev is Aleksey Vaneev.
www.voxengo.com
The dev is Aleksey Vaneev.
Thank you, Cordelia.
optofonik - Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:26 pm
///
SampleScience - Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:23 pm
To answer the question:
- WOK
- de la Mancha
- HG Sounds
- Variety of Sounds
- Nucleus SoundLab
& many more...
xoxos - Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:43 pm
samplescience, you are so off my christmas card list
that's why we don't do these threads like that. there are like a million doods on this site and at some time or other in the last ten or so years we've all gotten to know each other to some degree.
that's what makes kvr good - lots of developers.
what makes kvr shit is incessantly holding threads where we generalise about who is the best.
because a fair amount of the devs here have something worthwhile to offer. spacedad - Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:16 pm
odo kicks my tits but he's freeware,so shan't count.?
cryophonik - Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:28 pm
I thought for sure that the majority vote would go for Crysonics, since they are so beloved by the KVR community.
optofonik - Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:18 pm
xoxos wrote:
samplescience, you are so off my christmas card list
that's why we don't do these threads like that. there are like a million doods on this site and at some time or other in the last ten or so years we've all gotten to know each other to some degree.
that's what makes kvr good - lots of developers.
what makes kvr shit is incessantly holding threads where we generalise about who is the best. because a fair amount of the devs here have something worthwhile to offer.
that's why we don't do these threads like that. there are like a million doods on this site and at some time or other in the last ten or so years we've all gotten to know each other to some degree.
that's what makes kvr good - lots of developers.
what makes kvr shit is incessantly holding threads where we generalise about who is the best.
because a fair amount of the devs here have something worthwhile to offer.Xoxos,
First and foremost I want to congratulate you on the solid reputation you've built since I remember first seeing you around on the DT forums in the 90s; I respect your opinion on this matter. Unfortunately I've been burned a few times, most recently ordering a boxed indie product that has ceased working since I updated it. The original version's issues didn't show up until after I installed the purchased product, well after demoing it; hence my installation of the latest version. This sort of thing has happened in the past with others so I'll blame myself for not demoing more thoroughly for months on end, looking into very nook and cranny; beta testing.
I really do want to support indie developers but I'm coming to the conclusion that I can't. Mostly in part to the issues I've had but since posting this.., in the end, I feel like I may be discovering a level of protectionism that is perhaps masquerading as "support among the community". I asked a question that others like me want an honest answer to. Where else would we go other than a site that is frequented by developers who are familar each others' reputations? Cryophonik pointed out that Crysonic does in fact have an excellent reputation here and elsewhere.
This could have been an opportunity for developers to honestly give props to their peers that are doing excellent work but instead it seems to have opened a door that some here would prefer to be left closed. Your comment to SampleScience, although made in jest because he perhaps forgot to mention you, is very telling in this regard. It's not like I asked anyone to call out devs who aren't performing at their potential or willfully selling shoddy product.
"What independent developers are consistently releasing the most bug-free, solid, reliable, VST compatible, software instruments, fx, and processors and have the best customer service reputations?", is the wording I used within my actual post so I guess I'll take the hit because I used the word "best" in the title. The fact remains, however, that within the body of my post I defined "best" to mean something specific, something I defined quite well using very specific criteria. I most certainly did not ask for anyone to, "generalize about who is the best". Quite the contrary, in fact.
Kind regards.
optofonik - Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:30 pm
aciddose wrote:
optofonik wrote:
(coded and*)
Sure. Why not.
*My edit
Sure. Why not.
*My edit
all of them are "privately coded".
so let's be specific - you want code that is written outside of any sort of contract.
do you also want to limit the amount of externally sourced code (libraries, etc) in the product?
if so now you're in territory where you can't find the answers. you couldn't even easily figure this out if you wrote the product yourself.
you'd have to be 100% certain you never wrote derivatively, which means never read any other source from anything at any time.
this is pretty much impossible.
honestly if you look at the commercial closed-source code in most products you could easily find license violations and derivatives. if you had super powers (god?) and could examine the history of all authors you would definitely find tons of interconnecting derivation lines.
this is actually one major reason most commercial products are closed source. open-source is a liability.
the other reason is just a branch from that - you put yourself at a huge disadvantage when you expose yourself while everybody else does not. anybody could take your source code use it while you'd never know and never have any recourse.
You, I don't remember from the 90s. I have dealt with hundreds of equally tiresome people like you over the years so, piss off.
aciddose - Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:11 pm
i've had to deal with lots of people like you over the years who make outrageous demands and attack those who point out the flaws in your assumptions.
optofonik - Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:53 pm
aciddose wrote:
i've had to deal with lots of people like you over the years who make outrageous demands and attack those who point out the flaws in your assumptions.
I work with people who make what needs to happen, happen, instead of pointing out flaws in anyone's expectations or demands. That will explain your issues with people like me.
I also don't go out of my way to provoke people. If all you can contribute after 8 years on this forum is this kind of tired rhetoric why do you bother anymore?
spacedad - Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:26 am
if you've had a problem with a particular company/dev,you should be asking 'what can i do about this problem'.
because my guess is that most indie devs are very helpful and have great customer service.
the one you dealt with is most likely an exception to the rule.
aciddose - Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:40 am
spacedad wrote:
my guess is that most indie devs are very helpful and have great customer service.
i can second this. odds are if you're dealing with a larger company you'll just be talking to what is essentially the pr-department when you email "tech" support. when you're dealing with a small company odds are you're talking directly to the or a programmer. in some ways this can make things more difficult. in others it can be an amazing advantage.
in cases where you're not hooked up with the pr-department you'll likely be talking to someone who just acts as a go-between and really can't help you with any technical details. you can't ask questions and you often won't be able to discuss your problem because "that isn't how it works."
on the other hand, with a small developer the demands on you are going to be much higher. they're not going to feed you a pr-line, and in return they expect you to be focused on the technical issues, reasonable, and willing to accept their take on the situation. odds are they know a heck of a lot more than you ever would about the product in question - but again, on the other hand you have the advantage talking to the developer directly that you can make technical suggestions they might not have thought of. small things can easily be over-looked. as a programmer myself, i can tell you with 100% certainty that absolutely nothing can be more appreciated than a technical description of an idea that is easy to implement and improves the product.
you and other users get a better product, and the developer gets a better product.
i think it would be far easier to make a short black-list of companies people have had very negative experiences with than a short list of the ones they've had good experiences with.
either way though - you're just asking for customers to act either as fans or haters. it'll just end up a popularity contest which is i think why a lot of developers here would rather not participate.
to answer a question like "what are the most stable plugins" you'd have to poll huge numbers of users. you also could never account for selection bias in the results. that makes it in my opinion fairly pointless unless done as some kind of academic thing.
aciddose - Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:49 am
(by the way, see kvr's list of plugins and ratings system.)
optofonik - Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:50 pm
aciddose wrote:
i think it would be far easier to make a short black-list of companies people have had very negative experiences with than a short list of the ones they've had good experiences with.
Why would anyone want to make a blacklist? All something like that will do is discourage an indie developer who may actually be trying but having a difficult time of it? In the end that dev may actually get their act together and produce a reliable product of note.
In the meantime, there are independent devs who already have their act thoroughly together and reliably sort issues out straight away. Developers who should be commended for their efforts. It a win for all concerned. The solid developer wins, the customer wins, and the not so solid developer is left alone long enough to sort things out. If anyone thinks this is somehow a wrong attitude to have or a bad idea I can only imagine they have an agenda that is less than wholesome regarding the subject.
optofonik - Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:55 pm
Edited the title; that should calm some delicate sensibilities.
xoxos - Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:01 am
optofonik wrote:
Edited the title; that should calm some delicate sensibilities.
thank you for the long memory. i'll answer again on "the other side of the coin".
"and the lions come to greet us by the hundreds. from a corner one is watching us being eaten."
this forum and industry are overrun by predation, coordinated and otherwise. it's worthless to petition for the honest answer you desire. let the buyer beware.
me even responding to this thread is like inviting a landmine. my "reputation" has been through so much filth and slime. i had a certain customer, who after clearly expressing (quotable, referencable) awareness that they were not allowed to purchase my software, placed eleven orders for the same product over the course of a few days.
that's the shit storm i have to go through, and god forbid i express it, because *look what happens to this thread next* (or if not in this thread, then elsewhere... "i'll bid my time" lol)
good luck, happy music making
There are 29 posts in this topic.