KVR :: u-he » Diva and Studio One 2 not in harmony! [View Original Topic]
There are 24 posts in this topic.

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Itron - Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:19 am

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Quick question, regarding Diva and Studio One 2. I have a PC running Win XP SP3 - Quad core Intel CPU. I have noticed that in Cubase, Reaper, FL Studio, I can run Diva with no problems. However, the same patches in Studio One 2 cause crackles and pops. The CPU meter in SO2 will show Diva running at 30 ish %, and then suddenly the meter will shoot to the right into the red zone, hitting 90% + useage for a second or so. Then the meter will drop back, fine for a while and then it happens again. This is with nothing else loaded in SO2. I also notice that even when Diva is not being played, so the DAW is just sitting doing nothing, that the CPU meter will make sudden jumps, and then return to a few % useage.(In this case the meter will hit about 40%.)

This doesn't happen with ACE, or any other Uhe product (that I have). Nor does it happen in Cubase 6/6.5, Reaper 4 or Fl Studio 10, so it seems to be particular to SO2 and Diva.

I decided to raise this question, as I noticed someone in another thread saying that they couldn't get a single instance of Diva in SO2 to operate without pops and crackles with certain patches. It seems a pity that Diva is perhaps being accused of using more CPU cycles than it actually does, due to a slight compatability mismatch with one DAW!! I like the workflow in SO2, so it would be great if I could use Diva happily within SO2, rather than switching to Cubase just for Diva.

I should mention that I am running the latest full release of Diva.

Is this a known bug/issue at either SO2's end or with Diva? Is there anything that I should be doing to alleviate the problem (within the DAW settings or in Diva)? So far I haven't found a way to stop it. Or should I raise this with Presonus?

Anyway many thanks for some great products,

BW

Mark.

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iamyourfather - Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:37 am

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Don't know about the jumps in CPU but certainly it is quite normal for poly patches in higher quality (great/divine) to be unplayable, it was the case even on my i7. There is good news however, the latest beta has multi threading support which on most multi core machines will vastly improve playability. I can play nearly every single polyphonic patch in divine mode now without audio breaking up.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=346323

this thread has a post by Urs with a link to the beta... just a word to the wise tho, it's at your own risk (Urs' words) and there's a small issue with note offs until the next beta, but it could be worth checking out.

I assume Urs is ok with me linking it as it's in the public forum and fjolle did the same for me. Hopefully you can at least check whether the next release will improve things for you ?

Cheers IAYF

PS... look for the multi-threading button in the lower pat off the GUI near middle right hand side... you will need to enable that

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Itron - Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:31 am

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Thanks IAYF for the feedback. I saw that thread, but I think that the beta has an issue with XP at the moment?

Also what I am trying to say is that the same patches will play fine in Cubase, Reaper and FL Studio, but the same patches cause this CPU jump in SO2 only. I hope that makes sense? So using the same patches in the same mode will cause the clicks/CPU spikes in SO2 but NOT in Reaper, Cubase and FL Studio. (For historic reasons that I now find quite useful, I have collected a number of DAW's which run on this PC, but NOT at the same time before someone asks!! )

Also as I mentioned spikes occur up to 40-50% when SO2 has Diva loaded, but is not being used in anyway - I did this just for interest, watching the SO2 CPU meter with just Diva loaded, and the PC not being touched in any way.

Also please note that this machine runs no A/V, or even automatic updates, networking etc. All conditions are exactly the same when SO2 or one of my other DAW's is running. So it is very much SO2 specific problem.

Hope that helps and is clear!

BW

Mark

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opus_diaboli - Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:15 pm

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BTW: Studio One creates CPU spikes on my system even without Diva. This behavior has been addressed a view times on different forums. I don't know whether this issue still occurs with the latest release of Studio One.

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Fritze - Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:42 am

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I had some CPU problems with Studio One and Diva. CPU usage was way too high as long as Multithreading was on in S1.
But with the newest Studio One version 2.0.5 and the newest (internal) beta of Diva I'm not able to reproduce this problem anymore.

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Itron - Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:51 am

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Thanks for the feedback!

Just for interest I ran S0 2 with nothing loaded, and the cpu meter showed small little 3-4% spikes.

Loaded Diva, with default patch and not doing anything else, CPU meter stays fairly steady. Load my favourite patch "a simple beauty" and do nothing else, and now the CPU meter shows spikes of >60%. Nothing is being played, the DAW is just open with Diva and simple beauty patch loaded.

This happens with some patches but not all.

This doesn't happen in my other DAW's.

chacka, how do I disable multithreading in SO? I am also using the latest version of SO 2.0.5, but not the latest beta of Diva, as I thought that I had seen Urs say not to use it on XP yet?

Fortunately for me, I can enjoy the beauty of Diva in other hosts!! However, I would love to use it in SO2 as I enjoy using SO2, and more importantly, it is a pity if Diva receives critiscm because of a slight issue in a specific host!

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Fritze - Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:08 am

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Got to Preferences and there it's in Audio Setup.



Yes.

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Itron - Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:44 am

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Thanks I will give that a try.

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Itron - Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:14 am

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OK, disabling the multi threading option didn't help

Any further news whether it is OK to try the latest beta on XP?

Many thanks,

Mark.

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Fritze - Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:41 am

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Yeah, try it. There's was a XP specific bug that was fixed.

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Itron - Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:23 am

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OK - will give it a try!!

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Itron - Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:59 am

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Just a bit of feedback, tried the latest Diva beta, but still got clicks/CPU spikes in Studio One.

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bobbybland - Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:19 am

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I'm using latest diva and s1v2 2.05 on x64 and the two are working perfect here.

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Bathrobe - Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:42 am

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What are your asio settings? I know they should be the same as in the other daws, but what happens if you increase the buffers a bit?

I also noticed that when the mixer channel spikes into the red it sounds like diva is crackling.

Running XP sp3 32bit here with S1 2.05 and diva 1.1b on an i5 and cannot get diva to use up more than 50% cpu power.

Also couldn't find a patch called 'a simple beauty'.

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Itron - Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:36 am

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OK changed my ASIO settings so that Audio Buffer size the same, but disabled "use smaller ASIO buffer size" and "Use ASIO direct monitor" options. (Can't find out exactly what the first does anyway!!) Although I can still see CPU spikes by about 30-40%, they do not seem to be going into the orange/red zone, and so far no audible crackles. (I was only able to do a very quick test as I am working!! ) Will test further tonight!! Oh I should add that I am using a Cakewalk UA-25 EX sound card. (Would love to try the Native Instruments latest offering!!)

The Simple Beauty patch, I downloaded from the Uhe web site, I can't remember who created it, but it is hauntingly brilliant!! I do change it to poly mode for my other DAW's (with no problems)and can get lost for ages! That patch alone, to me, is worth DIVA

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Urs - Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:49 am

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Itrion,

If you say you're getting crackles, you're sure it isn't the demo version, aren't you? - Just making sure, as this seems to develop into one of our main support issues

Cheers,

Urs

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madslau - Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:08 am

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I dont think its the beta as i have the same problem in Studio One 2. I will try and reinstall diva and revert if i still get crackles.

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Itron - Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:08 am

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Hi Urs,

I don't believe it is to do with being a demo (or beta as it happened from V1), as I have a full license, and this doesn't happen in Cubase 6.5, Reaper 4.x or FL that I am also running on the PC. Also if I recall, the crackles that come from the demo, are more like the very old gramaphone record static noise, whereas this is more of a single pop that co-incides with the CPU meter in Studio One going red and hitting 100%.

Disabling the "Use Smaller ASIO Buffer Size" in my Cakewalk UA-25 EX did seem to stop the clicks, and the CPU meter didn't hit red, but there were still 30-40% CPU spikes being shown, just not reaching the red zone, so I guess changing the setting allowed more breathing room for the spikes before causing a CPU overload and hence a Crack?

The other slightly weird thing (to me anyway), is the way that even when Diva is loaded all on her own, the CPU useage meter sits at about 4% (which is normal and fine), but then suddenly with nothing touching the PC in anyway - no midi input, keyboard input etc, just sitting watching the PC, a 30-40% CPU spike will occur. I am sure that it is the addition of these spikes that, when you are playing the instrument and it is running consistently level at about say 40% CPU usage, cause the CPU meter to jump to 100% and a crack/Pop occur. Again these CPU spikes do not seem to occur in the other DAWs.

I also have Ace on this PC and this doesn't show the same CPU spikes/issues. The problem seems limited to a Diva/StudioOne 2 combination.

I hope that all makes sense!!!

Best wishes,

Mark.

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Urs - Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:01 am

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Mark... this makes me think... does it still happen when you turn the FX off?

(maybe there's a denormal problem in the FX-section... shouldn't be, but still!)

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Itron - Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:03 am

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Hi Urs,

I will give this a try and report back. I am afraid it won't be until later tonight.

Best wishes

Mark.

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Polybius - Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:14 am

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Maybe they did their job a little too well with the circuit modeling and all. And the crackles you hear or just the circuits that are starting to run too hot maybe you should try turning it off for 30 minutes to let it cool down

All pish posh aside though, are the crackles like buffer crackles? Like when you set it too low, and it starts stuttering?

I used to have an issue like this in Renoise. Setting my power saving options to "best performance" in the Windows control panel solved all these issues.

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Itron - Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:55 am

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Hi Urs,

Turning the FX off, didn't cure it altogether, but might have reduced the frequency of the pops a bit. However, it obviously reduced the overall CPU base useage, and as the pops only seem to happen on a CPU spike, this might be the reason. I did notice that turning the FX off improved the base CPU useage fluctuations. The CPU meter would show a base CPU useage of say 4-6% with FX on and a steady 2% with them off. This would not effect the odd 40ish% spikes whilst idle, which could be seen with or without the FX on.

I have found that turning off the "Use Smaller ASIO buffer size" does solve the Pop's although the spikes do still occur but only hit 80% CPU peak. So can be seen visibly, but not heard anymore. At least it helps!!

I also tried Diva in Renoise, Notion3 and Sonar 8.5 last night. Renoise and Notion seemed fine, (might have heard the odd faint click in Renoise, but I wouldn't have noticed anything if I hadn't really been listening for something and I wasn't 100% sure), but definitely Sonar also produced pops, but the CPU meter didn't seem to pick up the spikes. (One of the reasons I moved away from Sonar was because I found it very picky working with certain plugins, so not really surprised or concerned with this finding.)

Back to StudioOne 2, I noticed that with Diva loaded with the default patch the CPU spikes could also be seen whilst everything sitting idle - very boring just sitting and watching the CPU meter - I must get a life!!

So in summary removing the "Use Smaller ASIO buffer size" has meant that I can happily play Diva in SO2, without loud Pops!! However, from a technical point of view, there may be a slight issue with the CPU spikes that were causing it, as they still remain, but just not hitting 100% CPU utilisation. They now reach 80-90ish% but obviously the base CPU usage level is also lower.

Maybe on my system these spike are also occurring in the other DAWs but because the Diva/other DAW base CPU usage is much lower, and possibly the CPU meters are not so responsive to picking up spikes, you cannot tell that the spikes are occurring? (or maybe Diva needs these occasional lumps of CPU draw?)

Just for completeness, I should add my PC specs - Asus P5WDG2 WS Pro mobo, Intel Core 2 Quad Extreme QX6700, 4GB RAM, Main disk Samsung F1, and 4 additional drives in RAID 5 array runing from mobo for non music related data, Win XP Pro SP3. No networking enabled, speedstep disabled, no A/V, networking disabled, automatic updates etc disabled, UPS software disabled. Cakewalk UA-25 EX USB soundcard, Edirol PCR-800 keyboard. So I have tried to disable anything that could reduce performance on this PC.

Sorry for the long post but hope the information is useful.

Best wishes,

Mark.

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JimmiG - Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:45 am

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Hi. I'm demoing Studio One V2 and found exactly the same thing. Patches that play back fine in Reaper crackle and pop in SO2. There seems to be a compatibility issue between SO2's multithreaded audio engine and the multithreading in Diva. Unfortunately, my audio interface does not have a "Use Smaller ASIO buffer size" option.

-If I turn off "Enable Multi-Processing" in the SO2 settings and enable Multi-Threading in Diva, it works fine. CPU usage as measured with Windows Task Manager, with all 16 voices playing is about 55% (down from about 70% with Multi-Processing enabled in SO2). But then SO2 is only using a single core of my quad-core CPU, which might cause problems down the road.

-If I turn off Multi-Threading in Diva and turn it on in SO2, Diva behaves as it does in other DAWs without multi-threading enabled - ie. it's stable, but I get much fewer voices than I do with proper multi-threading mode enabled, before it breaks apart.

If I decide to buy this DAW, it will definitely be something I mention to U-He and PreSonus. I think the main problem is with the SO2 audio engine though. As soon as it detects high usage on a core, it "jumps" to the next core, which is also busy because of Diva, so it jumps to the next etc. Every time it jumps to a new core, you get a crackle. That's my theory anyway.

Maybe this has something to do with it, also:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan08/articles/pcmusician_0108.htm


It's very annoying - I just want something that works. Reaper doesn't play very nicely with my Virus TI (massive latency) - SO2 is perfect with the TI but instead Diva doesn't work properly

Edit: Definitely seems to be an issue with SO2. Guess it's up to them to fix it:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/5067.page

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JimmiG - Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:53 am

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I've found something that seems to work very well for Diva in Studio One and might help in other DAWs too.

I downloaded the demo version of JBridge (works for 20 minutes at a time) in order to test out Studio One x64 (which has no native support for 32-bit plug-ins like Reaper does). Out of curiosity I tried bridging Diva (even though there's a 64-bit version available).

Once the bridged plug-in is loaded in SO2, click the little Settings button under the Diva GUI and check "Performance mode". I can now play big chords again with my Phenom II X4 in Multi-Threaded mode and at Divine quality.

This is the description of "Performance mode":
-Processes the audio asynhronously, with one buffer of extra latency.

I think it basically detaches the Diva process from the Studio One host. Latency wasn't an issue for me. You can also actually "bridge" the 64-bit version inside the 64-bit host if you want.

I may have to seriously consider switching to SO2 now. Reaper is incredibly lean and efficient, but it seems every new version adds some more sub-sub-menus with options that I don't really use or need.

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