KVR :: Everything Else (Music related) » Anyone performing live ambient, space, or new age electronics? [View Original Topic]
There are 42 posts in this topic.

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Pulse Width Modulation - Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:42 pm

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I've been gearing up my system and my musical chops to start playing ambient and space music live, so I'm curious as to what similar musicians are doing. I grew up listening to Music From the Hearts of Space, so I always figured there were tons of people performing it around the US and the world, but it seems to be very slim in this day and age, except for basement studio dwellers like me.

I've always loved the music, and now I figure it's time to start playing for people and really sharing it.

So, hey, let me know that you're out there, maybe trying to get out of the basement yourself! Because a synth pad is a terrible thing to waste!

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mcnoone - Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:24 pm

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Yea...I love new age type music.
I use to listen to a lot of it it the late 80's from people like Patrick O'Hearn, Steve Roach, and Suzanne Ciani.
That's the reason I bought my first synth, so I could make those kinda sounds.
Unfortunately I'm rather limited in certain abilities to create any good music like that, as I lack the patience to get going long enough to finish anything using my daw.
So I just stick to the sound design, and don't pursue the music creation so much.

Good luck with your music.

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JJBiener - Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:41 pm

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There are people who have been able to make the transition to performing ambient/electronic music live. There are some examples on YouTube. I have been curious about how to start since there doesn't seem to be too many venues that feature that kind of music. This especially true in the sleepy, little beach town where I live.

So my questions are...

How much of performing Ambient/Electronic music is live vs sequenced?

How do you find appropriate venues where you live?

Do you perform solo or with a group?

What other aspects beyond music do you incorporate into your shows, ie lights, video, pyros, etc?

Thanks, PWM, for starting the thread.

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4lb Kitty - Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:20 am

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Eventually I'd like to produce a cross between Space and New Age, but I doubt I'll even perform live as I really have no coordination in my fingers. I'm always hitting more than the keys I mean to hit.

What settings are you thinking of performing in? I can see group meditation, "church" settings and even dinner, but I'm not sure I'd personally care for going to a space music "gig". New Age I could see, though.

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Sequent - Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:55 am

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Coordination is mainly just a matter of practice... unless you have other stuff going on. But depending on what kind of music you're going keys are not always necessary.

There are lots of possibilities for venues depending on where you live and how open people are to your kind of music.

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Sequent - Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:18 am

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It would be interesting to hear people's recommendations especially regarding lights and video... which is not really something that I've worked with in the past. Video... like, what kinds of projector have you found to be good, how strong of a bulb would you recommend. Screens? Projecting on a wall? Other?

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I am not an expert on it, at the same time, there are a few things that I would keep in mind:

Always have a contingency plan and redundancy in case part of your setup breaks down.

Don't put all of your eggs in one basket.

Keep things simple.

Rehearse your show as you plan on presenting it and with the same exact setup that you plan on performing with.

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4lb Kitty - Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:29 am

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OT: I'm listening to "Towards the Sky" on MySpace now. I like!

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Pulse Width Modulation - Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:53 pm

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I can't speak from experience, because I haven't started playing live yet, but these are some of the ideas I am looking at:

-I'm looking to start small. The important thing for me is to get out and actually perform. I'll probably do free shows for a while, and maybe sell a few CD's.

-I've got my live rig set up with my laptop running Cantabile Solo for about 2-4 VSTi's at a time. I use an old Ensoniq ASR-10 sampling workstation for some sounds, but mostly as my main MIDI controller and master reverb unit. I can get a lot of complexity with just that system, but I also use a second MIDI keyboard for layering, as well as a Roland Alpha Juno 1. I'm making sure that whatever I configure, it will be the same everytime I set up, with room to expand in the future.

-There might be plenty of venues that fit the mood of the music. Obviously bars with noise and drinking don't really work for space music, but I'm looking at places like book stores, lots of coffee shops, or outdoor community
festivals. Maybe there's a planetarium or an amateur astronomer's club event that could use some music? Or an art reception that needs a little different mood?

-As far as performance, I'm working up a show based on a lot of improvisational space music, but I don't want it to appear like there's no performance value, so I'm trying to do more on the fly, with minimal pre-programmed sequences or beats. I use some short loop sequences, arp patterns, and drum patterns, but I try to keep them simple or tweak them on the fly. For improvisation, I spend a lot of time programming performance presets that I would use like a specific "song" in a show, but there's no specific musical direction intended. It's just a pallette of instruments and effects that are mixed and optimized that could go in a very different musical possibility for each performance. To switch things up, I'll also play some more conventional piano songs and maybe delve into a few electro grooves.

-The big obstacle has always been motivation. I was intimidated by thoughts like:
"No one would ever want to host a space music show here in Montana!"
"The stuff I play is out of style"
"People will think I'm not really performing anything, just noodling on some keyboards"
or this little gem, "All my equipment is cheap or obselete!"

So, now my view is this: SCREW THAT! It's something I've always wanted to do, so even if I fall flat on my face, I have to give this a try.

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Pulse Width Modulation - Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:55 pm

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That's what's great about space and ambient music! If it's done right, it can be enjoyable in the foreground as a performance or a recording that is actively listened to, and it can also be just as enjoyable as a background element for mood or atmosphere. I figure that was Brian Eno's take on it. So, there may be plenty of venues, like book stores, coffee shops, outdoor markets, or art showings where the music may not be the main draw for people, and yet it enhances the total experience of going. And if it's good space music, people who might want to sit and actively listen, can enjoy that as well. It would be tough to fill a concert hall with a space music show, but maybe if you help a local business sell a few more books, bring in a few more customers, or create a unique atmosphere, it might be easier to get some gigs. I'm also looking other possibilities. Why not perform in a venue in the morning, when people are starting their day? Or very late night, when people want to wind down after the dance DJ completes his set? And then let the more raucus musicians take the usual evening gigs. You might even be able to carve-out your own niche and not have to compete with other musicians at all!

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Sequent - Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:13 pm

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Bookstores is one that I didn't think about at the time... do they still even have those these days?

Border's used to have lots of music performances in their cafe, but I don't recall ever having seen live music at say Barnes and Noble.

If you still have any New Age or Healing type bookstores in your area they might be a perfect venue for a nice intimate performance.

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Sequent - Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:18 pm

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That's the spirit!

As far as preparation... it sounds like you're on the right track afaik. Personally, I think it's good to have things open so that you can make adjustments if necessary depending on the audience, etc.

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Sequent - Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:20 pm

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Thank you very much!!!

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Pulse Width Modulation - Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:09 am

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Great idea, Sequent! I've been trying to work up a variety of genres to fit different audiences.

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alexfalcao - Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:18 am

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I know Robert Rich is preparing for his tour, check on his web site.
http://robertrich.com/

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GaryG - Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:40 am

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Is cosmonauttransfer still around?

He certainly played 'space' music live (he posted some YT vids)

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Pulse Width Modulation - Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:42 pm

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It really surprised me that not many space musicians perform live, but one artist who's really inspiring is Craig Padilla. Here's some great videos of him performing and some interesting interviews that tell the story of how he did it.

http://www.youtube.com/synthwiz

What's great about this guy is that he started out like a lot of us did. When he was in college, he had only one synth, but a year or so later, he and colleague Skip Murphy started peforming anywhere they could, mostly small venues, and turning out tons of albums, mostly stereo live tracks that had little or no overdubbing.

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Emerald Tablet - Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:05 pm

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Hi,

Its perfect music to make live.
Ive done some ambient pieces in realtime
If i wouldnt be too hard on myself when it comes to seeing myself
back i would put it on video.
I find it a petty that you cant do livegigs
without always some bloke recording it.

Here is what i do
I use a piece ive created once.
Delete all content in it but leave some
VSTIs and VSTEs open.
Start selecting channels and use my
controller to play notes and tweak knobs.

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Pulse Width Modulation - Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:37 pm

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I'm shy too, but actually, sometimes I feel I need to get used to rolling on most of the stuff I do, performances and practices. That way I could evaluate the recordings later. Improvisations are so moment-to-moment, it's hard to tell how well you are playing. But, hey! The more you record, the more material you might have for CD's!

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trimph1 - Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:27 pm

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After my last band broke up waaaaaayy back in the late 1980's I went into a kind of hiatus. Now, what with my wife being a lot more healthier and myself getting better I have gone back to playing live with a couple of friends of mine as well.

I find that actual performances can be good practice runs as well..and what a way to pile up material!

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lionscub68 - Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:40 am

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electro-music.com
or
http://event.electro-music.com/

I've performed for 2 years now. I'd have to say it is a straight-up mix of folk who sequence 99% of their set vs those who sequence nothing at all!

Of course you have to weigh in the results: some of it is just plain noise, some of it is truly space music, some are looping experts and build a wall of sound, and some have structured songs in either case.

Good luck!
Maybe I'll see you at EM2012!

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zerocrossing - Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:10 am

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Well, here's the thing. You share a 6 pack of beer. You give a performance. There's no music coming back to you other than your own which, as you know, can be made more easily in your basement. You can share with a music partner though, so I recommend finding one as to me that's a lot less lonely and makes for a more enjoyable experience. Chances are if you're enjoying it your audience will too.

You also have to ask yourself some bigger questions like, "Does anyone want what I'm offering?" Ambient is very different than other genras of music in the fact that it's designed to be part of the atmosphere instead of the focus of attention. If you try and play a traditional club or bar people will wonder, "When does the song start?" I know this happened to me the first time I heard Music For Airports. I remember thinking, "This is like a Pink Floyd intro where they're all too stoned to remember the song." It took me a few tries to "get it." Most of your audience won't. Look to non-traditional venues like art galleries and cafes. I found it can help if you make an announcement along the lines of "go about your business, I'm here as part of the background." Giving your audience something to focus on can help. I've had success "re-scoring" movies. It's almost exactly an hour set from the time Dorothy gets whisked into Oz to the time the credits roll. Tron (the original) and James and the Giant Peach also work well (and oddly, are also an hour of fantasy time) If you're feeling dark, try Eraserhead. I've actually projected interesting looking video games like Rez and turned the music track off.

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zerocrossing - Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:31 am

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This is more or less my work-flow for live improvisation. One thing that's crucial to me is that I keep an audio looper or two on a send. The best are Mobius (free) for pure flexibility and ability to record a lot of chunks and toggle between them in real time. Augustusloop is great because it reacts more like a tape loop. If you're using only hardware I recommend finding a used Repeater, Digital Echoplex or Electro-harmonix 2880. Some people also like the RC-xx's from Roland, but the fact they don't allow you to control the feedback percent makes them useless to me. Creating a loop with less than 100% feedback is really great to create long evolving soundscapes.

If you're going all hardware, don't make the mistake of bringing too much gear to a gig. I've made that mistake and it always leads to frustration. For instance, a Roland ROMpler like an XV-5050 or the new Junos are a lot better than lugging along 6 different analogs. If you're a knob tweaker, (I'm not) a Virus would be a better choice than a Voyager simply because they cover a lot more ground in a single box and trust me, no one will notice the lack of "analog magic" in a live venue. Save that stuff for studio use.

If you go the computer route for live (I would at this point) make sure you don't focus on the computer. Get good knobby controllers and maybe something like the Maschine or Spark for beats (if you're doing rhythmic stuff) It's better to control a filter sweep with a Hot Hand MIDI or Roland D-Beam than it is to use a mouse. If people can't tell if you're checking their email, you'll have failed.

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tremolounge - Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:35 am

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A friend of mine has performed ambient-type music live at art galleries, as sort of "background music" for openings. Might be a possibility to look into.

Also, there's the whole "house concert" thing (google if you're not familiar with it). The music usually runs to folk/jazz/rock appropriate to a smaller, quieter space, so maybe there are people out there who'd like to host something in a more electronic vein.

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Pulse Width Modulation - Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:57 am

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Thanks for the tip about the looper! I think that might open some possibilities I could easily transistion to.

I think you're right about not over-doing gear, but it's good to have several hardware controllers to give some freedom. I have a 3-keyboard system. Two separate keyboard controllers going to my PC is important for getting some good layering of sound.

Also, For simple performance tweaks, I use a Roland Alpha Juno 1. It is a great go-to synth for real analog leads, pads, and effects that need simple filter cut-off, envelope, and auto-chord tweaks. I also have a Moog MG-1, but it's old and kind of wonky. I would only use it in the studio, or a bigger, more special show as sort of an "icing-on-the cake" synth. For VA synths, drum machines, arps, and analog-type sequencer VSTi's, my Korg NanoKontrol works great! But I had to find a way to make it more intuitive. Even though every VSTi has a different architecture, I picked the most common parameters I'm likely to use, and assign them to the same controls on the Nano (Filter Cutoff is always dial 6, resonance is always dial 7, etc.) That way I only have to remember one set of controls for synths, one set of controls for drum machines, and one set of controls for a sequencer. Anything else that is special to a particular VSTi, I can always mouse. Then I got a hold of some small peel-and-stick scrapbook letters from a craft store, and labeled the NanoKontrol. Now, it's a lot more intuitive to use live, and it also makes patch-building a snap![/img]

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Pulse Width Modulation - Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:18 am

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Good Point! One thing I'm considering is performing to the side of my audience, or (GULP!) even with my back turned to the audience. That way they can see what I'm doing, and even see the VST GUI in the background. In a small venue, I would even invite them to come a little closer and observe the process. The more they see what we do, the more they see the performance.

About 20 years ago I worked a concert for a community theater, where a local guy was performing a multi-keyboard show. He was a child prodigy in the 80's as kind of a synth whiz-kid, and now he was in his 30's, trying to get back into performing. The first thing he did was build a tacky plywood pyramid that he set up his rig inside. I guess he thought it would look futuristic and cool, but all we could see was him from the waist-up, popping out of a square hole on the top, sort of moving to the music, and there was no sign of any of the 5 keyboards he was playing. It was terrible! You couldn't see anything of what he was playing. For all the audience knew, he could have sequenced the whole thing (and it turned out, there was a lot of sequencing), and no one could see the actual good performing he was doing.

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JJBiener - Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:43 am

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I just watched a few of the Craig Padilla videos. I think it is remarkable what he accomplishes live. It is a bit different from the concept I have, but close enough for comparison. Since it is hard to hold an audience's attention, especially with ambient music, has anyone experimented with interactive video? This would obviously over lap into VJ territory, but I am looking less for visualizations and more for something with more meat. Something like being able to control a Bryce, Daz or Blender animation via MIDI.

I realize that it would be easy to score an animated piece and simply perform the score live while the animation is projected on a screen. It is easy enough to sync music to video live. That said, I am very much an improvisational musician. In fact, my ability to play a piece the same way twice is extremely limit. Is anyone aware of an application that would allow the creation of scenes like in Bryce, but then allow manipulation of objects with in the scene via MIDI?

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vurt - Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:12 am

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arkaos

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JJBiener - Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:17 am

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You might want to consider putting a webcam over your head and projecting the view from above onto a screen behind you. That would show off your skill quite well.

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Pulse Width Modulation - Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:09 pm

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A webcam is a good idea!

I always envision a concert being outdoors in a natural setting. You can't plan the weather, but how cool would it be to have your audience in lawn chairs watching a summer sunset gradually turn the clouds from orange to pink, and open up into twilight, or a spot where crickets and birdsong become your inspiration?

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JJBiener - Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:57 pm

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I have played outdoors and I can tell you it is a challenge. It is very difficult, especially without a dedicated sound man, to know what is being heard by your audience. In a club or other defined space, you can get a feel from the stage because the sound bounces off the walls and comes back. Outside, the sound just keeps going. I have played shows where we couldn't be heard and others where we could be heard from the highway two exits down. It is really hard to judge.

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jackmazzotti - Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:28 pm

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what about playing at a prison or hospital

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4lb Kitty - Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:29 pm

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Talk about a captivated audience.

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Pulse Width Modulation - Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:04 pm

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I should have known it was too good to be true, but maybe for a small enough crowd it might work?

By the way, all the comments and feedback are giving me great ideas and a lot more confidence! Thanks everyone! Keep writing!

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GaryG - Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:45 pm

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Easy fix for that one:



http://www.fractalspin.com/products.php?product=%22No%2C-I-am-not-checking-my-email%2C-retard%22-T%252dshirt



(though personally think it would have been better without the 'retard' quip)

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Pulse Width Modulation - Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:42 pm

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[quote="GaryG"
Easy fix for that one:



http://www.fractalspin.com/products.php?product=%22No%2C-I-am-not-checking-my-email%2C-retard%22-T%252dshirt
[/quote]

Hee Hee! I think I'd use that for CD title!

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jackmazzotti - Tue May 01, 2012 7:37 pm

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they might appreciate it more

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zerocrossing - Tue May 01, 2012 7:47 pm

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Three sounds like way too many controllers considering you can get so much traction out of a single 61 key controller. Some basic "performance" patches splits and some MIDI channel changing should be plenty. The Novations and Akais have pads on them as well (the Novation's suck, the Akai's are good.)

I think back to audience would be death. Side is fine. See if you can find performances of Imogen Heap on youtube. She uses a lot of electronics in her show but she doesn't let them come between her and her audience. Also, she's awesome. Uses an audio looper a lot with great results.

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zerocrossing - Tue May 01, 2012 7:49 pm

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Is that still around?!

Man that was a staple of my shows back in the 90s. Used it all the time. I'm mad Apple dropped .swf from Quicktime because Flash was a good way to get tiny animations going. I stopped using it though, because I found that people couldn't really tell I was controlling it with my Roland GR system.

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zerocrossing - Tue May 01, 2012 7:52 pm

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Check youtube for Thomas Dolby performances. He had a wireless webcam built on a head mount so you could see what he was looking at. It was a little distracting but kind of cool too. He's also a great person to learn from in terms of using computers to put on a live show. When I saw him he was running two Mac towers running Logic... I think the only hardware synth he had was a Virus Ti.

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trimph1 - Wed May 02, 2012 4:29 am

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Actually I have done just that..and got a lot of questions from the audience as well about how I did certain things..you'd be surprised....

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vurt - Thu May 03, 2012 5:07 am

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what do you want from your audience?
are you looking for people to be impressed or are you looking to entertain people?
ive done a couple of gigs in art gallerys where i set up in a cupboard, not being seen or able to see my audience except for a couple of occassions where i nipped to the loo (the can for americans or the head for any navy seals)

i wasnt looking for any sort of praise i was just looking to provide an atmosphere for some friends artworks.
i have also done a few gigs where i was on a stage in front of people, i was using a laptop for part of my sound, reaktor specifically, but i set my gear up across the table so that the only time i was near the laptop was just before i started, opening up the relevant pieces in reaktor. so no one could suggest i was just checking mail.
no visuals just almost complete darkness aside from the glow from the laptop screen.
although i do like doing stuff with visuals too, but then i get my friend who has all the makings of a light show involved. then its projectors, oil lamps, spots and all manner of lighty up things

you need to decide what you want from the experiences

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Pulse Width Modulation - Sun May 06, 2012 2:52 pm

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I think that really hits it home. There might be a lot of gigs where you can fade back and let the music support the atmosphere of the event. Last Friday, I got to visit a friend of mine spinning trance at an art reception...Perfect! People's attention was on the artwork, but the music added so much to the overall atmosphere. If you crave attention, some situations may not be your cup of tea. In these places, not only do you need to perform for people with varying levels of interest in your music, but also in very intimate venues. A few weeks ago I played background music on guitar for a charity auction. I was placed right next to the bar, with a huge crowd of loud, party people having drinks. At one point I had about 4 intoxicated and very loud men chatting it up and BS-ing right in front of me. They kept leaning backwards and bumping into my music stand, hardly aware that I was there, but I laughed it off and kept playing, knowing that I was doing my job. Afterwards, the feedback suggested that the music added the atmosphere we needed that it was noticed and really appreciated, and I got the chance to practice performing for a very tough audience. If there comes a time to perform an actual concert, that might be easier!

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There are 42 posts in this topic.