KVR :: Instruments » Does anyone NOT like Diva? [View Original Topic]
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donato - Fri May 04, 2012 6:18 pm

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I'm just curious as a prospective buyer. I don't think I've ever heard a negative thing about it, with the exception of a couple feature requests (arp., sequencer to name a couple). Does anyone have any other complaints? Or maybe think it's overhyped a bit? I'm not looking for a bashing thread, just looking for some differing options if they're out there. Thanks.

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zvenx - Fri May 04, 2012 6:35 pm

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there are a few of those, but we already took them around the back and had a 'talk' with them

I guess cpu usage is an oft complaint.

rsp

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digitalboytn - Fri May 04, 2012 6:38 pm

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Some of the other developers aren't liking Diva too much right now...

She's the gal wot stole their customer's hearts and minds

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned

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LeVzi - Fri May 04, 2012 7:11 pm

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I didn't like it because of CPU use when I demo'd it upon it's release.

I tried it earlier and that's certainly been addressed to a certain degree.

I just don't want it because it doesn't offer me anything new to what I already have.

I've pretty much stopped buying synths all together now anyway, I am in fact making music which is a bit of a shock to the system.

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digitalboytn - Fri May 04, 2012 7:26 pm

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Mmmmmmmmm...You should take her out on the dance floor for another twirl

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braj - Fri May 04, 2012 7:43 pm

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Every time I open Diva afetr not playing for a few days it is a revelation. It really is in a league of its own right now. There are plenty of great vst synths but there's only one queen. I admittedly haven't tried dcam yet though.

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pdxindy - Fri May 04, 2012 7:57 pm

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It is okay if someone isn't interested...

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djshire - Fri May 04, 2012 8:34 pm

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You mean the soft synth that everyone seems to hail like its the second coming of Christ?

I haven't tried Diva out yet, but I'm already tired of it. Its far too overhyped in this community. I don't care if it is good or not....I just wish everyone would shut up about it for a while.

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pdxindy - Fri May 04, 2012 8:38 pm

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More than once I have found myself shocked when listening to various other synths that now easily sound oddly empty or brittle or harsh in comparison. And there are times when I listen to something done with Diva where there is a moment of startling presence and immediacy to a particular sound that is just kind of breathtakingly gorgeous.

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xamido - Fri May 04, 2012 8:46 pm

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CPU and the fact that it doesn't fit my music.

I like my music cold and sounded digital. I'm not like the rest of the forum member who grew up loving analog, i grew up loving digital and my favourite musicians music have that kind of sound.

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quayquay17 - Fri May 04, 2012 8:56 pm

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Similar to the above poster, I love lo-fi crap.
I'm working on an instrumental hip-hop project, and if I'm using synths, it's for digital sounding pads/chords, classic casio-sounding bass, or quirky warbling clipping leads from something like OLGA or the Wasp emulator.

I'm sure I would love Diva if I made trance, ambient, prog, or something requiring a silky warm analog tone, but until then, I won't spend a sizeable chunk of change that doesn't fit my sound.

However, many props to U-He, I demoed it a few times, and it certainly does sound great, and very inspiring to play loud chords while moving the filter!!
It reminded me of the first time I ever played a moog. I was taken aback a bit by how rich the sound was, and how musical the filter is.
Sure, i'm spouting bs at this point, but it's hard to convey the feeling!

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jacqueslacouth - Fri May 04, 2012 9:14 pm

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It's not that I don't like it, it's just that by the time I bought it, I had listened to the never ending stream of accolades on KVR and to be honest was expecting....well, I'm not sure really...perhaps I was expecting its sound to be better than the best BJ I've ever had, and well, it sounds like a synth...a good one but that to me, is it.

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Mogular - Fri May 04, 2012 9:17 pm

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I think the excitement is so ongoing because Diva really delivers what virtual synths have promised the whole way along. When I first played with the ES1 in logic 13 years ago I got this little hit of excitement that this could get close to the real thing.
In that time there have been a lot of great synths come out but none has been matched (for me) in terms of sheer addictiveness and satisfaction in noise creation.
I own a lot of the really great software synths, yet again and again I find myself playing with them and then opening Diva, and replacing them with what I come up with in Diva. Even if it isn't exactly the same as analog, the experience of playing it is - it is musical, but full of surprises that help the sound design process take on an emotional depth that is very satisfying and inspiring.
Inspiration is the key for me, and Diva brings it in bucketloads.

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zerocrossing - Fri May 04, 2012 9:39 pm

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Says the man who's shilling for 3 different U-he competitors in his signature.

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ChestRockwell - Fri May 04, 2012 9:40 pm

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If Diva is a Moog

Then, Strobe is like an Sh-101

Fusor is just plain insane!

I plan to build a new system with an i7 just to support Diva, because you almost have to! It does drain the CPU.

On the bright side though, It's my opinion that if you can't afford a Moog than Diva is your best bet. I like it.

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ChestRockwell - Fri May 04, 2012 9:45 pm

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This too!

I think people, myself included, forget that not everybody wants there music to sound like 'real analog'. It's an important thought that doesn't get mentioned that often.

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Sampleconstruct - Fri May 04, 2012 9:47 pm

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I grew up with analog hardware synths, now it's time for something else, emulating the old, already known seems a bit redundant to me - but I'm sure Diva is great at what she's intended to do.

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zerocrossing - Fri May 04, 2012 9:53 pm

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I think all you need to do is notice the constant steady stream of chatter about Diva to know it's the bomb, as the kids say. Now, notice it's newest competitor Saurus. Months of pages and pages and pages sparked by a "win the software" contest. Very clever marketing, but a few days after the release the talk about it has totally dried up. On GearSlutz, a site that focuses on hardware and analog synths, Diva is constantly mentioned to the point where people complain about it. I'm pretty sure there were about 6 posts about Saurus. Now, other synths get mentioned here and around too, but there's a reason Diva garners so much attention. It's excellent. Also, shut off your targeting computer and trust your feelings. What do you feel about it?

I own some pretty good hardware analog synths and getting Diva was a no brainer. It's not my only virtual analog, but it's one of my favorites. Put it up against DCAM, Sawer, Poly-ana... those are the ones that come to mind. See what you think.

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braj - Fri May 04, 2012 10:07 pm

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I personally never cared much for digital synths, I remember when the DX-7 came out and for sure it had a new sound, but I much preferred the Prophets and Jupiters and saw the near-death of those classic analogs with the wave of digital synths. I bought a Kawai K3 as my first digital synth (wavetable) and the best thing about it for me were the analog filters and envelopes.

Basically if analog is your thing then Diva takes the cake, but if you love digital synths more of course you'll have a different opinion. But the title of this thread is 'does anyone NOT like Diva?' with 'like' being the key word there. I can't see if you like synths that you would not at least 'like' Diva, maybe not want to buy it for various reasons but even like the DX-7 which I didn't prefer, there was no doubting it was impressive and I have to give it props even though I would never have bought it.

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afreshcupofjoe - Fri May 04, 2012 10:09 pm

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It uses a ton of CPU. I could also see how it wouldn't really be as relevant for certain genres. I think something like Sylenth1 is probably still a better investment if you make music with lots of supersaw sounds, such as trance or late 90s type dance music. For bread and butter dubstep bass wobble sounds, NI Massive is still king. DIVA isn't the best all around synth. It fills a particular niche.

Also, I still don't think it sounds quite as organic and alive as some older analogs I've played. There is still a little something missing, even though everyone likes to claim it's spot on. Don't get me wrong. It's like 99% there, just not quite perfect yet.

But, otherwise it's f**king brilliant. There is no denying that it's a giant technological leap forward as far as analog emulation goes. If you want real analog tones, there is nothing else out there that delivers like DIVA, period. We finally have a virtual instrument that truly sounds like an analog synth. That is a big accomplishment. DIVA deserves the hype because it's THAT good.

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digitalboytn - Fri May 04, 2012 10:13 pm

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I guess the reason that so many people are enthusiastic about Diva is that she really is a game changer in the world of soft synths...

When we look back on the history of it all,I believe this will be an undeniable and indisputable fact...

The newly released v1.1 really does address a lot of the original criticism with regards to CPU usuage and there have also been many refinements made..

I don't actually think of Diva as an analog synth...

She's a musical instrument and wow - is she musical

I've been around awhile and it takes a lot to impress me - but just I've divorced a lot of other soft synths to spend more time with Diva and I don't miss those other girls one little bit...

What were their names again ?

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ariston - Fri May 04, 2012 10:17 pm

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I don't like Diva because, when she irons my shirts, she always misses those embarrassing wrinkles right below the lapels.

She makes a mean blueberry muffin, though. Admittedly, she takes up the entire kitchen when she's working, but it's oh so worth it.

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izonin - Fri May 04, 2012 10:20 pm

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Or underhyped?

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faun2500 - Sat May 05, 2012 12:27 am

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If something is hyped up a lot I tend to ignore it but I have tried diva and it has made me want to sell some of my stuff just to buy it.

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hakey - Sat May 05, 2012 12:32 am

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My neighbours love it.

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mcnoone - Sat May 05, 2012 12:42 am

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Well some people like digital type sounds, and some like analogue type sounds.
Maybe I'm in a minority when I state...I like all kinds of sounds.
Including acoustical.
Using both Zebra and Diva, we who like a wider variety of tones, can have just that.
I also happen to like samples of acoustic instruments, and physical modeling too.
I like super saws, and filter sweeps.
Stop not liking stuff, and open up a bit. Use a freekin pan flute patch on your next dance track, and stop doing the same stuff, using the same sounds you always use. That is to not fear doing something different.
Otherwise all EDM tracks are gonna sound the same as they do now 15 years from now. I mean, they already sound the same as they did 15 years before.
So an unchanging music for 30 years, is a dead music genre.
At least rock music made drastic changes over the years.
I don't see that happening in electronic music...enough.
Long live the suppersawz and lolz.
Just an opinion, so...whatever.

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Lunatic_Machinist - Sat May 05, 2012 12:54 am

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I just find Diva boring.

But it's cool that it's there for whoever wants and needs that.

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oval303 - Sat May 05, 2012 1:07 am

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my neighbours perhaps don't like diva...

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Shy - Sat May 05, 2012 1:19 am

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It's fine but I don't really like it. I can't say it's any kind of "revolution" if I prefer some ancient digital synths' sound better. It's just another digital synth with the usual digital synth limitations especially in sync, fast modulation, basically anything that "pushes" it. I can tell you that I like for example The blooo's and The deputy's (free synths) filter at least as well (also zero-delay-feedback, but it's not hyped to death and called a revolution), works really nicely with the envelopes.

I also agree with others that it's sad that I expect some smart-ass comment about me not thinking it's freakin awesome and not "getting it".

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hakey - Sat May 05, 2012 1:20 am

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Weird. My neighbours can't get enough - the louder I play, the more they bang on the walls in appreciation. Even at three in the morning when you'd think they'd be asleep.

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Howard - Sat May 05, 2012 1:27 am

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Understandably, some other plugin developers "don't like" it!
e.g. the guy from Hamburg-Audio.de in this German video - w_w_w.musotalk.de/video/u-he-diva-11-und-die-top-news-der-woche/

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Examigan - Sat May 05, 2012 1:31 am

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+1

I still can't really use it, even after that last updated demo was released.

I know I have an older PC, but I can run my other synths easily with multiple instances.

It does sounds great though.

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Ingonator - Sat May 05, 2012 1:35 am

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Maybe this is because some people (including me) just started working with Saurus instead talking about it the whole day...
If you search for some news you could also check the official Tone2 forum:
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php
In the mean time i also got ElectraX BTW.

Anyway like i already mentioned 10 or more times i love both Diva and Saurus and the new Diva update is a big step forward in terms of CPU use. About the sound quality there is no doubt from my side.
Anyway it's not really the general CPU use that is reduced that much (even if there are some improvements too), it's more the fact that a single instance does use Multicore CPUs in a more efficient way.


To be honest besides the fact that Diva sounds great indeed the permanent talk about how cool Diva is and how "crappy" other synths are in comparison slowly starts to be a bit annoying IMO.


Ingo

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pdxindy - Sat May 05, 2012 2:21 am

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For the high cpu type presets (crank the resonance with noise for example) there is a very significant cpu reduction even with multi-core off. Something like 20-30+% less cpu.

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Ingonator - Sat May 05, 2012 2:29 am

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I know that already but for having the full benefit from the new update you need a Multicore CPU and best one of the new ones with i5 or i7.


Ingo

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ariston - Sat May 05, 2012 2:35 am

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hakey - Sat May 05, 2012 2:35 am

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Noticed a big improvement on my geriatric Q6600, even without using the multi-thread option.

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digitalboytn - Sat May 05, 2012 2:43 am

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Computers are so cheap and powerful these days and we're getting closer to where Ray Kurzweil predicted we would be at this time in history...

When you sit back and consider just how much bang for the buck we are getting compared to the "old days",it's ridiculous and we should all be down on our knees singing hallelujah

To replace Diva back in the "dark ages" you would have had to have bought a big bundle of analog synths and for that pleasure you would have paid out more pesos than the price of a posse of palomino ponies

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braj - Sat May 05, 2012 2:44 am

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U-he is very clear that Diva requires the latest processors for the best performance, so IMO CPU use isn't really an issue, my issue is I don't have that great of a machine. This is the same as when a new game comes out that requires the best of the current video cards to get the best performance. It shouldn't be surprising and the payoff is really great sound. Especially given the target market of professional musicians and producers, requiring an up to date PC is an understandable requirement. Even on my old core2duo it is not that bad, especially if you use draft for playing and best for rendering, and freeze tracks religiously. My machine actually has more issues with RAM on some plugins that it does handling most patches in Diva. I knew what I was getting into though using an older PC, I was duly warned my U-he just need to get me some i5 or i7 love sometime soon.

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braj - Sat May 05, 2012 2:58 am

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No kidding, just to get Diva's effect section alone would have been a wad of cash way back when. Of course this is true with so many plugins, but the point is well taken. A new $600 computer would run vst plugins including Diva really well. In 1984 I paid $1000 or so for a one-voice, out of tune sh-101 with no memory and no midi. We really are spoiled when we get to complain about how insufficient our software is nowadays of course I loved that sh-101...

I remember getting pedal effects and how expensive tit could be for just one mono, noisy effect. Now we get so many free high quality effects we don't appreciate maybe because they come so easy to us. Walking 5 miles in the snow to school builds character

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digitalboytn - Sat May 05, 2012 3:06 am

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http://www.montypython.net/scripts/4york.php Brilliant English humour..

MP: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, our Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!

GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!

TJ: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.

EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, (pause for laughter), drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing 'Hallelujah.'

MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.

ALL: Nope, nope..

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braj - Sat May 05, 2012 3:09 am

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Nope, nope...

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stimresp - Sat May 05, 2012 3:10 am

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I wouldn't say that I don't like Diva. I have much respect for U-he synths and I understand that the filter design is quite innovative but I don't hear it. Probably my listening environment, or maybe I'm not pushing the filters enough. I still prefer the sounds and flexibility I get from Zebra2 and Ace.

Over time perhaps.

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Bronto Scorpio - Sat May 05, 2012 4:04 am

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This! <--

I'm tired of emulations. Analog here, analog there
I'm interested in new, perhaps unheard, sounds and often like lofi digital crappiness.

I was really, really sceptical when Urs announced Diva. Even U-He fanboys are allowed to have their doubts sometimes

Until I got the first Diva beta...

It *really* makes a difference! All the other emulations sound almost the same with a few small differences here and there to me.
Sometimes I need some warm, analog-ish sounds here and there as a contrast to my other sounds. I now use Diva everytime I need something which is not too much "out there" or lofi than most of my other sounds are

Couldn't live without her anymore!

Regarding CPU usage. I have a really ancient PC and can only play most presets monophonically but that's not a problem here. Most host introduced something called "freeze" something like 10 years ago. Time to use that feature
I have to use it on almost all tracks anyway....I was never able to run more than 1 VST + effects at a time so it doesn't really make a difference to me.

Cheers
Dennis

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braj - Sat May 05, 2012 4:06 am

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Yeah I'm constantly freezing to save RAM anyhow I don't mind freezing as it lets me render everything in Divine mode too

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pdxindy - Sat May 05, 2012 4:15 am

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A couple of my latest Diva sounds...

I particularly like the variety and character of noisy type sounds I get in Diva. I find in quite a few synths that the noise sounds tacked on more than being shapable and part of the sound. There are some gorgeous tones in Diva with noise and higher resonance. The filter FM shapes it nicely.

http://draigathar.org/sounds/Diva49.mp3

This one is just a simple key sound... Diva can also make lots of simple sounds that are thinner and not so big and full. The DCO works well for this.

http://draigathar.org/sounds/Diva50b.mp3

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LeVzi - Sat May 05, 2012 4:55 am

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How is Analog Dimension a competitor for u-he ? They are a mastering company !

Go back to gearslutz and bash various other companies some more there zc, and stop trolling here.

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3ee - Sat May 05, 2012 5:11 am

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Hey pdxindy cool audio clips!
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So, let's see: for someone who needs/wants an "analog" synth sound.

DIVA

Good:
-Brilliant sound quality with character
-Extra features & modulation options besides the classic analog emulations
-Game changer (the the VA world)
-(really have to mention this because it's true and it matters to have...) Great support!
anything else?

Bad:
-CPU-hog
-osc sync & lfo accuracy with high speeds (typical VA limitations?! )
-still missing 1-2% of that analog goodness
anything else?

Neutral:
Feature limitations (not to worry, Urs has planned and still planning features that will multiply the sound diversity within Diva... like an arp and modulation matrix now that the multi-thread support is implemented)

So, you can either choose to look at the bright side ..or focus on what tiny bits that are keeping Diva back atm (things that you might not even use), things that I'm sure will get sorted out more or less anyway...

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Sampleconstruct - Sat May 05, 2012 6:17 am

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Dennis, such a talented guy like you in terms of creating sounds and seeking for a new world of sounds deserves to have the proper tools for it. You have to get a new PC soon and I am herby officially donating 100 Euros so you can start planning. This is no KVR crap, this is for real and I will stand by my word....

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djsubject - Sat May 05, 2012 6:18 am

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Exactly!!!

D-Cam did the same thing back in its day!

Obviously there is no Single synth! & if you had to pick only one it would not be Diva unless your production's only ever needed That sound!

for me the exciting thing about Diva is where Zebra 3 could be at!

better distortion & some OSC & Filter code (& the chorus of course) from Diva would make for one hell of a synth!

but i do "Like" diva allot!

even when making a "digital" lofi production a line od Smooth Diva running through it can gel the mix & overall sound really well!

the track still sounds Lo Fi & Digital & harsh but not thin

my mate got Diva to layer with Massive (witch dominate his productions) Divas roll in the track is underlying & not obvious but powerful!


Subz

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Gonga - Sat May 05, 2012 7:04 am

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I've been using Diva a lot for bass. It's hard to justify using any other synth if you want an analog sound. When you start adding up oscillators the sound becomes unbloodyreal. I think Diva will usher in a new direction for synth bass - where VAs begin to eclipse analog hardware.

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robenestobenz - Sat May 05, 2012 7:23 am

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Nice stuff. That one sound has got me interested in Diva. I totally agree about the noise, I've never used a soft synth where it really felt glued in to the sound. But in that sample, it does.

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Sendy - Sat May 05, 2012 7:52 am

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Can someone tell me, how is Diva's osc sync deficient compared to a real analog synth? I have access to analog stuff, but none of it with sync.

What's the best softsynth for sync effects?

I'll admit, when I first tried Diva, I was having much more fun and being far more productive with Charlatan and the Polysix VST for some reason. I liked it, but I wasn't blown away at first. IMO, the idiom of analog synthesis is, on a purely intellectual level, somewhat tired, especially for a NEW synth. It's only when you sort of stop overthinking your evaluation of Diva, and just explore, listen, play... that you really start to 'get' it.

The truth is that analog style synthesis seems limited and boring to most, because the digital models of it lack nuance. When I bought a Korg Monotron it seemed like a toy, which in a way it was, but the thing is, with it's one sawtooth and one filter and one saw LFO, there are so many nuances of sound to find in there, that come about by subtle interactions of physical processes - which a typical digital model of a Monotron would miss. The digital model would yield a few characteristic sounds (filter low, filter high, resonance low, resonance high, combinations thereof...) wheras in reality you're missing SO much detail.

Diva is interesting because it's simply a step closer to sounding less like a typical digital emulation, where within a given set of parameters, you can pretty much hear all the permutations in one day and consider the terrain 'explored'. There are nooks and crannies to the sound - you can go spelunking in caves you never even knew existed.

I've never been an "analogue snobbe", I just like interesting and deep sounds, whether they be crusty digital lofi crap or a large string ensemble through a ring modulator. Diva has a deep and interesting sound to my ears.

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samsam - Sat May 05, 2012 8:38 am

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So it seems that pretty much everyone likes Diva. That's a relief.

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tropicalontour - Sat May 05, 2012 9:02 am

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I don't dislike it, but I also haven't bought it. Maybe I just didn't get grabbed by it enough. I don't know. Weird.

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Echoes in the Attic - Sat May 05, 2012 9:13 am

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That's a bit sad. Nobody seems to be discussing saurus on their own forum?

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Shy - Sat May 05, 2012 9:22 am

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Very deficient.

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LeVzi - Sat May 05, 2012 9:27 am

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Why mention Saurus ? Why keep banging on about Saurus ? Oh it's Zerocrossing, he's got OCD regarding it or any competitor to DIVA.

Why can't people just f**king shut up about Saurus in DIVA threads and vice versa ?

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djsubject - Sat May 05, 2012 10:07 am

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Personally i like the sound of them both?

i don't see the problem?

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Sendy - Sat May 05, 2012 10:08 am

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Yes, but in what way? Artifacts? Sweep stepping/zippering? Lack of smoothness?

Genuinely curious here as I don't have a reference.

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Bronto Scorpio - Sat May 05, 2012 10:19 am

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Thanks Simon! Thank you so much for the kind words and the offer! It really means a lot coming from you! But I can't accept that! Sorry! 100€ is a lot of money for me and it would feel wrong to take that money!

Thanks again!
People are always way to good to me!

Cheers
Dennis

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aciddose - Sat May 05, 2012 10:21 am

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sync isn't really that hard to do.

shy are we talking complex stuff like soft-sync using a window or just plain old zero-phase hard-sync like a sub-oscillator?

or something between like the standard 2nd osc sync with lfo modulation?

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aciddose - Sat May 05, 2012 10:22 am

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actually that tends to be the issue. only it's a lack of those features that software seems to have the problem with.

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ClubHo - Sat May 05, 2012 10:24 am

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DIVA takes up way too much CPU.
But I have a confession.
I'm trying to run it at 96k.
Damn it. I just wish I was happy working in 48k.
So now its upgrade time.

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Shy - Sat May 05, 2012 10:27 am

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Sendy: the waveform sounds like it turned to mush, definition and brightness are lost, and it just sounds like a strange toyish approximation of a real analog sync effect. If you're really interested, feel free to send me a PM and I'll send you some sample later. I'm not posting samples here again, too many trolls.

aciddose: just hard-sync as well.

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aciddose - Sat May 05, 2012 10:36 am

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weird. i can't explain that. it must have mutant oscillators or something.

what some synthesizers do is they'll just apply a "sync" between two oscs at the right frequency, but the phase won't line up. some also will have sample-accurate but not sub-sample accurate, so those get a lot of aliasing.

"mushy" though is unfortunately way too subjective. pm me a clip.

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Sampleconstruct - Sat May 05, 2012 10:48 am

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Too bad, anyhow if you change your mind my offer stands, it's time for you to overcome technical (thus artistical) limitations caused by economic cirumstances!

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pdxindy - Sat May 05, 2012 10:51 am

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Indeed! the contrast brings out the best of both!

also, Diva can get various sorts of hifi lofi which adds its own character...

http://draigathar.org/sounds/Diva51.mp3

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hakey - Sat May 05, 2012 12:12 pm

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Any German speakers care to translate (I think it's the guy with the funny goatee that we're interested in)?

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VitaminD - Sat May 05, 2012 12:16 pm

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I think the existence of this thread is an answer enough...

The scary (good) thing is.. U-he ideas and products seems to 'improve' over time.. and they aren't finished designing and creating audio products..

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ariston - Sat May 05, 2012 12:33 pm

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He's just spouting an ill-informed opinion about how Diva's code is obviously not fully optimized. He's trying to bolster this feeble opinion by saying that we've been hearing "great" oscillators and filters in VAs for about 10 years now, so he doesn't see why Diva should be so CPU-intensive....


Mind you, I don't know shit about programming (aside from programming Yahtzee in Pascal about 25 years ago), so I don't know if this is true or not. He just doesn't say anything to back up his assertion, so it comes across like a sad attempt to bad-mouth a competitor.

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braj - Sat May 05, 2012 12:38 pm

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Dort singen's:
"Dreh' dich nicht um, schau, schau,
der Kommissar geht um!

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Gonga - Sat May 05, 2012 12:48 pm

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I disagree very, very strongly. All of U-He's synths produce the smoothest VA syncs I've ever heard, and the quality is analog at least up to the highest frequencies, truly indistinguishable to the ear in any practical sense (though my hearing now falls off above 15,000 Hz). Diva's sync sweep sounds just as smooth as my Voyager's, and I have tested this extensively. Diva's sync can produce many more sounds than any of the analogs I used to play, because she is much more flexible in design. If (when?) U-He adds Oberheim oscillators and filters, I will have my old FVS-1 back, including the voice differentiation, except it will be much more flexible, convenient and a better value by far.

I would agree that Diva sounds different, and that she still has minimal aliasing at the highest frequencies, but to say she is very deficient is misleading now that the differences have been reduced to almost inaudible.

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digitalboytn - Sat May 05, 2012 1:09 pm

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Hey you German guys can't even speak your own language !

What that dude's saying is that if you have an open mind and you couldn't give a toss if a synth is digital or analog and if you are interested in a synth that sounds really musical on any level - you should check out Diva...

He's also saying for all of the analog snobs who are hanging out for that extra 1% of pure analog bliss,to get your soldering irons out and rip those old discrete boards apart and then start stickin' 'em all together

(Lovely by the way - built a couple myself back when Noah and I were on the ark)

Make sure you get all the wires right and always check the voltages 'cos some of the old voice chips are getting rare and a little 'spensive these days...

Them tune them all up and you'll be almost good to go...

Well that's after you've crammed all the spaghetti back into the cases..

The dude concludes the show by saying that if we want a synth that really does transcend many of the barriers that are an obvious impediment in the analog world,then we should rejoice in the fact that digital PSpice modelling in Diva allows us stunning sounding hybrid realities that were once only the thing of dreams

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JoeCat - Sat May 05, 2012 1:16 pm

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IMHO:
Even if DIVA did not advance analog emulation sonically, I think it would still be a great and popular synth because of it's interface (I don't mean the pretty knobs). The structure - whereby the oscillator, filter, and envelope sections of the distinctly-emulated synth models can be swapped - invites great experimentation. It's fun to use.

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ariston - Sat May 05, 2012 1:31 pm

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Erm.... no, that's NOT what he's saying. Read my post a bit higher up.

I realize you're joking, but I'm sure Mr Funny Goatee would be heartbroken to hear himself misquoted.

On a serious note, I really don't get the digital analogue discussion either. They're instruments, tools to be used, and to me, it's all about getting good tools that make good sounds. Diva just sounds so alive compared to other plugins, she is a constant inspiration to me. Whereas THIS plugin just sounds sterile, monotonous, dead by comparison.

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SadPuppyBlues - Sat May 05, 2012 2:12 pm

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Sorry, but I have to contradict you there.
This plug in is amazing.

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ariston - Sat May 05, 2012 2:16 pm

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Damn! Foiled again!

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ntom - Sat May 05, 2012 2:20 pm

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I don't like it.
Quality cannot sacrifice such an amount of performance. Yes I can understand good quality make come with an impact on performance, but while my machine may not be the highest-class, it is better than your average computer and is a decent machine all around and still I can only run one instance of DIVA.
Even if I had a higher performing machine, I would not sacrifice that huge chunk of performance power for a single instrument...and at that a single instrument track.

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VitaminD - Sat May 05, 2012 2:32 pm

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Have you tried Version 1.1 ? Significant performance increases for multi-core processors (especially i-series)

I'm getting many instances of the plugin going at once.. and I'm only running a last generation i5 here..

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bailees7irish - Sat May 05, 2012 2:36 pm

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+1

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mcnoone - Sat May 05, 2012 2:40 pm

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What are on? A 486?
I got a mbp coreduo2-2.88ghz, w/t 4gb ram...and managed 4 instances, plus drum machine here, (no freezing tracks) with room for one more if I wanted.
It includes a pad (poly-and long release) plus a sync lead.
The music ain't to good, cuz I was actually playing it, and it's not created using some sequencing tools or anything.
Here-
https://www.box.com/s/ee3a9e9acfc5a96381cd
@Shy-The sync sounds better than any other sync I've heard.

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ntom - Sat May 05, 2012 2:44 pm

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No. A response I was just about to post was going to be maybe my point is invalid because I only demoed it during Beta stages. I am not sure what kind of performance it hits now, though it may be better, I still have a feeling my computer wouldn't like many instances.
You have to understand my songs get massive with layers. The song I just finished had some 45-50 layers (tracks) (many playing in poly). I cannot sacrifice large chunks of my CPU for one instrument.

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pdxindy - Sat May 05, 2012 2:54 pm

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Sure it can... and each person can choose what is more important to them.

Let's consider a vintage Minimoog. Not only do you have only 1 instance, you have only 1 voice! That is terrible performance compared to any softsynth... Yet people pay thousands of dollars for them.

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Bronto Scorpio - Sat May 05, 2012 2:58 pm

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And there is always the quality setting. The CPU usage isn't really that high in draft mode compared to other synths. Aalto (another amazing synth!) for example uses way more CPU per voice here than Diva in draft mode. Even Tremor uses more CPU per voice (at least on my PC).

Cheers
Dennis

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pdxindy - Sat May 05, 2012 3:03 pm

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On my i7 I can get approx 10 tracks of Diva playing... and of course many more with freeze. But if it is more important to you to not have to freeze, then that is valid and you are right not to get Diva.

I am totally psyched cause I happen to value the sound quality more than convenience and Diva has set a new standard of sound quality. Different people have different priorities and I'm glad that there are more offerings available like Diva, Bazille and Synth Squad. If there is something for everyone, then we are all pleased!

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pdxindy - Sat May 05, 2012 3:05 pm

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You should definitely give Diva a test drive then. Noise and noisy sounds are one of Diva's interesting areas to explore. Because of the different osc/filter modules, there is a lot more variety there than may be obvious at first glance. And the interactions between crossmod/sync/resonance/filterFM and Noise offers lots of lovely tones.

Here is another example where noise is an expressive part of the sound

lots of dynamic range so don't start with it too loud!

http://draigathar.org/sounds/Diva38.mp3

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ntom - Sat May 05, 2012 3:16 pm

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[quote="pdxindy"]
Kind of a poor example really :/
With a hardware synth and of course an audio interface, you can record the synth part and MIDI at the same time. if you ever need to correct the played part, correct the MIDI, let the synth be controlled by the MIDI and record the output audio. Then you can have as many recorded instances of the Moog as you possibly want. Actually, probably the most (CPU) efficient way of using instruments...maybe not the most convenient though.

And don't get me wrong, quality is good, it's important, it's really important, but for operation, it's just not practical to sacrifice a large chunk of my processor for a single instrument.

Thus is why I don't use those synths either....then again, I also don't really use many commercial plugins, as we all know.

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VitaminD - Sat May 05, 2012 3:28 pm

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I'd recommend giving 1.1 a spin :c )

I doubt you are playing 45 layers at once.. wall of noise.. messy. v1.1 won't get you 45 instances at once.. but probably 6-12 depending on the patches used and quality level..

But we don't have to use the exact same synth for all 45+ layers.. use it on the more forward ones, for instance.. or to fill in the thinner synths

either way.. to each their own.. we all don't have to like the same things. If others work for you and this one doesn't.. good for you! (sincerely)

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fceramic - Sat May 05, 2012 4:06 pm

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Hmmm, I would say I don't like the interface. Nothing in particular, just not for me. I like tight one-page synths like Thor and Aalto.
I also really don't like the mod system. Again just personal preference, nothing wrong with it.
Other than that it does what it was designed to do very well.

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pdxindy - Sat May 05, 2012 4:18 pm

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[quote="ntom"]

It is an excellent example...

The Mini has no midi and so you cannot record your playing except as audio so no correcting. The Minimoog is only monophonic so you have to record multiple passes to get a polyphonic pad. And of course it does not save presets so you have to dial in your sounds each time.

It is not at all efficient or convenient... yet people still buy them and that is my point.

And it is easy to do exactly what you are suggesting with Diva. I can record my playing straight to audio and a midi track as well...

And if you don't like it or want to use it, that is completely fine... choices are good!

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zvenx - Sat May 05, 2012 4:19 pm

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Isn't this exactly what you can do with freezing in your DAW? And therefore doing as many tracks of diva as you want?
rsp

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braj - Sat May 05, 2012 5:44 pm

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http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/grasping+at+straws

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ntom - Sat May 05, 2012 6:07 pm

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Whoops, sorry, I should have made that more clear. I meant the entire song, in it's entirety (great use of synonyms, no?) is comprised of 45 layers or so. This includes strings, synths, vocals, drums, ect. I can tell you there are 8 layers of strings, 12 layers of drums (patched through MicroTonic) and about 6 layers of samples. The rest come from various synths: a Moog emulator, Scanned Synth, Serenity Free, Reaktor Player (which is so inefficient on the CPU I actually had to write it's part and render it down), Zebralette, and a few other small synths.


Probably would work best that way huh? This is usually how I try to make my crappy little freeware synths sound more full. Layers.

Perfect point. I was simply answering the topic's question: Does any one NOT like Diva? my answer was: yes, I don't.
I don't hate it, don't get me wrong. I doubt I would ever use it (but I can't predict the future). The fidelity of the first note ever uttered by DIVA when I demoed it during Beta was by far impressive. But again; I go back to my original statement, it's quality - to me (all opinion based) - is not worth the CPU use.

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Mikelo - Sat May 05, 2012 6:20 pm

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I haven't demoed Diva yet but what I've heard so far from it hasn't lost my love for Korg's legacy collection Polysix. IMO the Polysix and the Mono/Poly are by far the best analog sounding virtual synths to MY ears. Both also at ridiculous prices.

.

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digitalboytn - Sat May 05, 2012 6:34 pm

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Sorry about that...I only attended "How to Speak German for Tourists 101" and skipped all but one of the classes because I got caught up playing with this synth called Diva...So my translation may have had a few small errors...



I really agree with this...If we all painted with blue crayon,it would be a very blue world indeed..

I use a few tools,but it is the sound quality of Diva that has really changed the whole ball game here....

Deep,three dimensional soundstage - HUGE on a good monitoring system....

I have had to to re-think the game after playing with Diva..I've gone back to other synths and thought,"This has got no real dynamics and it sounds like a turd"...So they have been assigned to software heaven now...

This is the way of the world

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glokraw - Sat May 05, 2012 6:39 pm

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Should be steady sales for Diva, as people who don't buy it due
to older cpu, will upgrade their systems by attrition or for
other reasons over time, and remember they can now use Diva
with more instances, higher quality settings. With new features,
and sound designers adding to the value in the interim, time is
on Divas side, and future users side.

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samsam - Sat May 05, 2012 7:25 pm

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I have short hair and don't wear flares or a cape - is Diva still a good choice?

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glokraw - Sat May 05, 2012 7:49 pm

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Britney sagt 'Ich liebe alle gross Divas'

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deathwish - Sat May 05, 2012 8:15 pm

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I have the demo. The CPU usage is too high for per voice to really make it worth removing a few other instruments in the mix. Arturia J8v may not sound as good but I can run several instances of it no problem and in a mix one can't really pick out a Diva from a J8v.

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