KVR :: Hosts (Sequencers, DAWs, Audio Editors, etc.) » Reaper: VST track to mono? [View Original Topic]
There are 24 posts in this topic.

---

Mikelo - Sat May 05, 2012 6:58 pm

---

I'm trying to get virtual instrument tracks such as bass, drums etc in mono on Reaper. I'm still pretty wet behind the ears with the daw as I used to be a Cubase user.
I know that the master bus has a mono switch, but I'm trying to avoid using drums and bass in stereo.
Can anyone guide me through it please, if it is at all possible?

---

audiobot202 - Sat May 05, 2012 7:22 pm

---

There is a menu option to render a track to mono audio.

---

chokehold - Sat May 05, 2012 7:27 pm

---

3 possibilities:

1) There might be a "mono" switch in the VST.

2) Render/freeze the track, then right-click the frozen item, go to the submenu "Item Settings" and select one of the "Take Channel Mode: mono (---)" entries. If you have stereo material, then "mono (Downmix)" should give the best result.

3) Open the FX Window of the VST instrument. There is a bar at the top, and to its upper right should be a button (probably) labelled "2 in 2 out". Click this button, and a small routing dialog opens which contains 2 "boxes" made up of four quartes.
The left "box" symbolizes the inputs, the right "box" symbolizes the outputs.
The numbers (going down) symbolize the track's channel, so for a stereo track 1 would be L and 2 would be R.
Whatever's written on top (says just "AU" over and over again here) stands for the plugin's input or output channels, so the left column of each box would be input/output channel 1, and the right column would be input/output channel 2.

To make your plugin sort-of mono from stereo like this, you need to decide what you want: just the left plugin channel, just the right plugin channel, or a sum of both?

If you want the plugin's left output to be the mono source, then mark the two quarter-boxes in the first column of the right (output) box and un-mark the two in the second colums.
If you want the plugin's right channel - do it the other way round.
If you want both the plugin's channels to be the "mono source", then just mark all 4 quarter-boxes. This will send both the plugin's outputs to both the track's channels, and having two channels with exactly the same signal is ... correct: mono.

Hope I could help.

---

hibidy - Sat May 05, 2012 7:49 pm

---

Wouldn't setting the width to 0 also work?

---

mgpqa1 - Sat May 05, 2012 7:56 pm

---

Super easy...

1. For the track(s) you want in mono, right-click the pan knob and set the pan mode to Stereo pan. This will automatically spawn a width knob.
2. Set the width to 0.

No need to fiddle with rendering, freezing, or routing this way.

---

hibidy - Sat May 05, 2012 7:58 pm

---

---

mgpqa1 - Sat May 05, 2012 8:00 pm

---

Why so sad?

---

hibidy - Sat May 05, 2012 8:21 pm

---

---

Burillo - Sun May 06, 2012 12:03 am

---

if the sound is mono, it is mono. REAPER doesn't distinguish between mono and stereo tracks, in REAPER mono = stereo with 2 identical channels

---

DuX - Sun May 06, 2012 1:30 am

---

There is a "switch" on every Reaper track to make it mono, but it's a "width" slider instead. Just press the "i/o" button with the left mouse button and you'll see it. Then slide it to "0" and the track will be mono. Actually, it will output mono, but the plugins will process audio in stereo unless you don't make them work in mono.

I work a lot in mono, and have to deal with Reaper's stereo tracks by default. Therefore I use my own made mono templates a lot. Templates really help! I don't like that side of Reaper's routing much. I would like if it had "true mono" tracks, without having to use tricks - fiddle with every plugin you add as it makes the audio signal stereo again, to make it mono. Just like in a real console. I must be too much used to working with a console, I suppose... and Reapers developers wouldn't know much about consoles, I think.

Mixing with mono tracks give you better mixes... I never use a stereo track if I don't really need to. The idea is to mix in mono and get a stereo audio on the master out. That's how consoles work. mono in>pan>stereo out. Of course this is a bit simplified as there are also stereo and mono "aux"-es spo you can choose to have a mono or stereo FX on the channel, But EQ is true mono, for instance.

Cheers!

p.s. it was a looong time ago when I feature requested that Reaper gets mono audio tracks. looong time ago... nobody listened nor understood what or why I want that. Too many people nowadays don't have a clue how real mixers work - that's the main problem.

---

Burillo - Sun May 06, 2012 3:07 am

---

maybe it's not because people don't have a clue how mixers work, but because you don't understand what mono is? try recording a mono track, duplicate it and set width to 0% on one of the tracks, and reverse its phase. they null. that's because "width" only makes sense in stereo. it makes no difference whatsoever for mono material. a stereo sound with 2 identical channels *is* a "true mono" sound in every respect.

to prove it to yourself, you can also try recording a mono sound, then make a stereo file out of it (say, render to stereo stem track) and check if they null. i assure you they will. then you can put an identical FX chain on them (you can do whatever mono adjustments you usually do for the mono track), use identical pan, volume and width (in fact, width can be different!), and they will still null. because they are still both "true mono" sounds, despite the fact that one of them is technically a stereo file. this fundamental misunderstanding leads to a lot of unneeded work in your mixes (coupled with a warm feeling of "using true mono"), i'm afraid. no voodoo, no mojo, just science.

of course, if you record/produce a stereo sound*, it will be stereo, which is why you would need "width" knob set to 0 to make it mono.

so why exactly mono tracks are needed in REAPER again?

* stereo sound really means left and right channels are different and don't null each other**, otherwise it's still a mono sound

** that means that panned mono is already a stereo sound

---

Mikelo - Sun May 06, 2012 6:17 am

---

Thank you all kindly for your helpful replies.

---

DuX - Sun May 06, 2012 11:23 am

---

I understand perfectly everything you've posted Burillo, but one thing that still bothers me in Reaper regarding mono/stereo is that plugins you put on the track unnecessarily use stereo processing, and in order to circumvent that you have to go to routing and make the processing mono manually. With everything else, I cope pretty much well and I love Reaper. It's after all my main DAW.

My logic tells me that if you "tell" a track to be mono, all the processing on it should be mono by default. "Width" contorol is just circumventing Reaper's lacky audio engine regarding mono processing, as simple as that, as it uses double CPU otherwise for no real effect. It's just stupid and it becomes a big issue when you have like a 100 tracks, you know? That's like 50 unnecessary channels that use CPU processing for no real good reason at all if you don't change the processing to mono manually each and every time yourself on each and every one plugin, unless the plugin itself is mono by default, and that's a very rare find.

Now some will say "that's not such a big issue" as we have screaming CPUs and etc. these days, but not all people have those or they work with lots and lots of tracks. That's when it becomes an issue. I would actually prefer mono tracks by default, and stereo if you want, but it would be best if we just had a switch on the track to make it mono or stereo like in Cubase. If it's mono, all the processing on it is done in mono, and if it's stereo all the processing on it is done in stereo. *Very* simple.

I should post this on Reaper forum

Cheers!

---

Tricky-Loops - Sun May 06, 2012 12:07 pm

---

In REAPER the default pan mode is "Stereo Balance/Mono Pan" - and in the manual is written that "the track is treated as mono, even if it contains stereo media".

So the default pan mode is mono, isn't it?

If you have a stereo audio file, you can also change it in the Item Properties in mono (mix, left or right channel).

---

Tricky-Loops - Sun May 06, 2012 12:25 pm

---

Is there in an other DAW a option to make the output OF THE PLUGINS THEMSELVES mono?? Isn't it the problem of the plugin programmer (to create a mono knob) and not of REAPER?

---

geroyannis - Sun May 06, 2012 12:26 pm

---

Cubase has a switch like that? Where?
One of the things I hate in Cubase is that whenever I want to change a mono track to stereo I have to create a new stereo track and copy the audio and settings from the old mono track, then delete the mono. Too much hassle.

---

LawrenceF - Sun May 06, 2012 2:59 pm

---

VST 3 plugs channelize automatically. If you switch a track to mono, inserted plugs and their metering switch to mono, and vice versa. I suppose it's another one of those things that VST 2.x can already do (as the saying goes) that nobody actually does with it, dunno.

The irony is that Cubase's tracks don't switch mono / stereo.

---

jancivil - Mon May 07, 2012 3:44 pm

---

The behavior of the pan control does not make the channel 'mono by default'.
what that [panning as mono] means is the stereo relationships will not be preserved by mere panning. they will be changed (acc'ding to pan law). mono tracks/instruments etc Do_Not_Contain stereo information, ie., they're per se different than stereo.

width-to-zero narrows the stereo field of a stereo object. it does NOT make stereo into mono. you don't really need width-to-zero if the track is in fact mono. If you do not pan it, it may as well be mono in effect, depending, but panning a stereo track as mono is not mono, per se. In fact there are things to know about it.

There is 'power panning', for instance in Cubase, and VSL makes a more elaborate one for Vienna Suite, to preserve the stereo relationships in panning. Don't know if REAPER has that but this is a difference for real.

---

Tricky-Loops - Mon May 07, 2012 4:02 pm

---

But if I choose "Stereo Balance/Mono Pan" AND set the Wide to zero (via the I/O switch), then I perceive it as mono, because it's only one channel...

---

Tricky-Loops - Mon May 07, 2012 4:11 pm

---

BTW, if I have the width in the I/O-window set to 100 % or to -100 % - does it make any difference?? I can't hear one...

---

jancivil - Mon May 07, 2012 4:28 pm

---

granted, at no width it would be pretty much perceived as mono. I treat stereo drums by narrowing the field with a power panner and I don't know it isn't mono.

apparently the default *behavior* is 'mono channel', since you have to find a setting to get width conrol.
if it is a mono source you don't so much need it. I'm not sure what happens when you pan a zero-width stereo source as mono. I know from things with full width and it's... interesting. it might not bother you in any case. it seems to me like there would be little problem with 'zero-width', but I just don't know. the point is, panning as though mono when the object is stereo is dodgy if there is enough stereo.

not all things are equal, some instruments really use stereo, some just output as stereo and wobn't exploit it as much.
it just depends.

stereo and binaural are not automatically the same thing, stereo has differences and sums and a psychoacoustic effect.

---

jancivil - Mon May 07, 2012 4:36 pm

---

in principle, with a true stereo source there's all the difference in the world.

in mixing the width can be crucial, you can use narrowing to get focus and get rid of clutter in a mix. if everything is 100% width, not such a good idea, honestly. this is why people prefer mono for things.

but some things exploit that sums/differences to capture the effect, or create the illusion of a real space. there are ways to manipulate pre and post volume along with pan law to obtain 'back to front', depth...

---

Tricky-Loops - Mon May 07, 2012 4:43 pm

---

Of course the width can be crucial, but if I have the setting "Stereo Balance/Mono Pan" and set the width to 100 % and then to EXACTLY -100 %, then I don't hear any difference.

---

jancivil - Mon May 07, 2012 4:56 pm

---

donno. could be a mono source or a putatively stereo source that for all intents and purposes seems like it's mono.
if it's not an acoustically captured stereo source, or if it's a synth that has nothing in its design to manipulate the stereo effects, it may not be doing anything worthy of the term stereo.

the thing I notice with stereo and power panning is narrowing the field makes it appear as louder in the mix, using its pan law. I don't reckon something by itself is going to be as easily noticed, which is why I brought in 'mixing'...

---

There are 24 posts in this topic.