KVR :: View topic - Any love for POD HD500?

KVR :: Effects » Any love for POD HD500? [View Original Topic]
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blueman - Fri May 11, 2012 1:59 pm

Just got a POD HD500 to match up with my DT25 Amp and I'm lovin it so far!! Love

Very clean and highly defined tone. I don't hear about it much on KVR so, I'm wondering....anyone else dig this unit?

glokraw - Fri May 11, 2012 4:13 pm

There is more buzz here for software solutions, but if something sounds
good, is easy to use, affordable, and doesn't require a dongle, whats not to love?

Until something comes along that's obviously better, it's the best.

If it's bundled with PodFarm software, comparisons to X, Y, and Z, are probably readily available. I love the podfarm reverbs, and Spider amps, but have never heard
a pod in person. I may mount a pocket pod and pickup in a broken accoustic
I was given, since I have the back off anyway.
Cheers

zerocrossing - Fri May 11, 2012 5:03 pm

I can't speak to current Line6 offerings, but I think the issue was they more or less invented amp modeling and then let everyone else surpass them. When I was using a hardware modeler I looked at the best POD offering at the time and I was unimpressed. The Vox Tonelab was significantly better IMO.

Now they're using the word "HD" to describe how much more awesome their products are, but I went on the site and listened to their demos.. and they don't sound that great. I guess if you were using it as digital effects for a real tube amp like the DT25 you'd get the best of both worlds, but that's a pretty expensive proposition.

dsynth27 - Fri May 11, 2012 5:28 pm

I use it too...I like the sound more than amplitube, guitar rig, ect.

Great piece of kit IMO Cool

Uncle E - Fri May 11, 2012 5:53 pm

glokraw wrote:

Until something comes along that's obviously better, it's the best.

Kemper.

That said, the DT25 + Pod HD 500 combo has its own major strengths and is nothing less than groundbreaking in function. I can't imagine there's a better solution for someone who wants an insane amount of control and flexibility.

blueman - Fri May 11, 2012 7:14 pm

zerocrossing wrote:

I went on the site and listened to their demos.. and they don't sound that great. I guess if you were using it as digital effects for a real tube amp like the DT25 you'd get the best of both worlds, but that's a pretty expensive proposition.

With various sales and deals, the whole setup (new) with amp, cables (AES and S/PDIF) and HD500 set me back $1325 Very Happy

(not cheap but man, I'm LOVIN' this rig dude!!!). I'm using my 2x12 Vox cabinet with Celestion Neo-Dogs 80-watt speakers.

Line 6 has a special gift for creating really bad sound clips and even worse presets. I don't know how they do it, but they manage to show the unit at its worst Rolling Eyes

Also, the HD units DO NOT sound great, or even particularly good, right out of the box. I was ready to return it all a couple of times already, due to the high learning curve and ease at which you can make these sound horrible.. They are fussy systems which require some time investment; no plug and play here Uh Uh Uh

BUT, the payoff IS there if you put in the time and take it on like a proper project Smile

The HD has effects and setup chains you simply won't find elsewhere and these effects are VERY good (for me, they are worth the price alone) Cool

Taken from the so-called "M-class" effects we see on so many stages used for filters and delay units (of the 4-button form factor variety). Also, the Divided by 13, Dr. Z and Gibson amp models are not found elsewhere and they rock....IF you are willing to dial them in right. There's a lot of character to these models and they certainly don't sound good in every situation but that's true to life I guess. Line 6 gear makes you work for the sounds and isn't afraid to let you sound horrible if you are not willing to customize but I sort of like that. It's a fun problem to have Very Happy

You won't find many good video demos from what I've seen but this guy is really good and seems to "get it" in terms of how to "dial in the tones" for these. They should have hired him sooner Wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z1cJxNOaVM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

blueman - Fri May 11, 2012 7:41 pm

Here's another that's worth a watch and listen for those who are interested...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsPRVC6bxpI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Uncle E - Fri May 11, 2012 9:14 pm

blueman wrote:

Line 6 has a special gift for creating really bad sound clips and even worse presets. I don't know how they do it, but they manage to show the unit at its worst Rolling Eyes

Also, the HD units DO NOT sound great, or even particularly good, right out of the box.

Good to know! I'll admit that I haven't gotten past the presets.

Quote:

You won't find many good video demos from what I've seen but this guy is really good and seems to "get it" in terms of how to "dial in the tones" for these.

Not bad! The cleans are stiff but still much better than anything I've ever heard from it.

Uncle E - Fri May 11, 2012 9:15 pm

blueman wrote:

Here's another that's worth a watch and listen for those who are interested...

When did Line 6 hire Conan O'Brian? Wink

glokraw - Sat May 12, 2012 2:24 am

Uncle E wrote:

glokraw wrote:

Until something comes along that's obviously better, it's the best.

Kemper.

My shrink said I'm too old to go running around robbing banks Sad

glokraw - Sat May 12, 2012 2:35 am

blueman wrote:

Here's another that's worth a watch and listen for those who are interested...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsPRVC6bxpI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Nice demo, but they should have let Conan pee, first HiHi

SLiC - Sat May 12, 2012 2:42 am

I also have HD500 (and DT25 and JTV69 - the dream rig!) I have one as an 'amp' solution (it is perfect and amazing with the DT25, and truly mind-blowing with the JTV digital guitars, especially since the updates)

Simply put the HD500 is an extremely well priced external DSP effects, nothing can touch it IMHO as an external effects for the money...obviously it is has a bias towards guitar (and now bass and vocal also) but really it is an all round effects rack.

The editing software and computer integration (like midi over USB) sucks, but then it is really geared for plug and play and live; there are probably easier solutions if you always sit in front of a PC (like guitar rig which I also use, but it eats CPU and HD500 doesn't, I can also play HD500 without a PC and it has a full rack of controls and is an audio I/O, so again, pond for pound I would rate the HD better value than guitar rig/amplitude etc…)

If they had a decent computer front end, VSTi like control, midi clock over USB etc, it would probably get more of a shout at KVR, but currently its pretty much hardware with a computer editor, no real integration.

SLiC - Sat May 12, 2012 2:44 am

Uncle E wrote:

glokraw wrote:

Until something comes along that's obviously better, it's the best.

Better Solution ~1

the DT25 + Pod HD 500 + JTV69

My Rig Very Happy

Teksonik - Sat May 12, 2012 3:33 am

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=102

blueman - Sat May 12, 2012 6:43 am

You're right, this one belongs in the hardware section, aisle 5. Embarassed

Moderator, please move this topic to "Hardware (Instruments and Effects)"

MrMagneto - Sat May 12, 2012 8:33 am

I think it's a great piece of hardware! I have an older model aswell and the HD series is really improved stuff. I can imagine that for those who are used to "the real thing" the line 6 boards might be toys, but for me it's a great solution with a great amount of effects I could never afford.

zerocrossing - Thu May 17, 2012 6:00 pm

glokraw wrote:

Uncle E wrote:

glokraw wrote:

Until something comes along that's obviously better, it's the best.

Kemper.

My shrink said I'm too old to go running around robbing banks Sad

God damn I wish you'd stop mentioning the Kemper. Mad

I want one so bad I can taste it... and I'm staring at the cash to get it too. If that didn't mean I'd be stuck with my aging computer for another year or so, I'd be on it like teenagers on drugs, but alas I was hoping to find a cheap solution to placate my guitar tube amp lust while also letting me run more than one instance of Diva. Help

blueman - Thu May 17, 2012 6:24 pm

zerocrossing wrote:

If that didn't mean I'd be stuck with my aging computer for another year or so, I'd be on it like teenagers on drugs, but alas I was hoping to find a cheap solution to placate my guitar tube amp lust while also letting me run more than one instance of Diva. Help

I looked pretty seriously at it as well but without being able to demo it in person I couldn't make that leap and...oh yeah, I'm vain and, well...it's freakin' UGLY!#@$% Shit!

Uncle E - Thu May 17, 2012 9:51 pm

zerocrossing wrote:

Can't you get a badass computer for cheap these days? I recently bought quad core i7 laptops for JRR for $599 a pop.

Dean Aka Nekro - Thu May 17, 2012 10:51 pm

I have not (still) gotten around to testing out the POD HD series, I do intend to, Time has not been on my side for 'me' time as it were. Also the Kemper's are easy to get over here now so it is on the list way above the POD HD series as I have quite a few good amps to profile already plus friend's and collegue's have different good amps I can profile and they can profile mine. I know it looks shit (The Kemper) but in the black on green I kind of like it not looking like some "boutique" thingy thats been made as a piece of furniture Laughing

I have quite alot of Line 6 gear already, The XT was good over the original POD but the X3 was a real dissapointment, I know the HD range is a total overhaul of the entire thing but I am still skeptic. As it is I get alot more use from my Bass PODXT than any of the other PODs and the best distortion pedal i have (actually have more than two of them incase one ever goes down) is thier 'ToneCore Series' UberMetal pedal...For high-gain covering almost every sound you could need the UberMetal has it inside and for the life of me I do not understand why it is thier only pedal, Actually product IMveryhumbleHO that includes thier best distortion algo/EQ and also the only distortion where the on board gate works instead of having to go for one my trusty Boss NS-2 pedals...They just got that one so right. I use it daily. You can get them dirt cheap aswell last time I checked. The X3's fx are fine/servicable but so are the Boss GT-10's which I have also but again I am admittedly 'one thing for one job' sort of guy so these things (big feature packed ultra powerful floorboard, desktop and/or rack units have about 90% or more features I never use/don't need Laughing

), Vox ToneLab LE and SE with wank built-in effects. I like the looks/ease of use of the 7ender Mustang especially how easy it is to assign whatever to the expression pedal, Soundwise not tried so can't comment but it has an external loop for using proper pedals. The PODX3, GT-10 and ToneLab SX all work as USB audio interfaces also...Why the heck would I want them to do that. Boss have unleased the GT-100 (90 times better than the GT-10 obviously so that has gotta be tried)

Speaking of uprgrading/having a new dedicated audio machine. Mine is nearly ready and finally I can haz lots of power to run stuff I can not and have not been able to do so since my old audio machine went down. So alot of stuff to try out...ITB amplifier sims/emus included but I ain't holding my breath

Cheers and all the best to all as always

Dean

Uncle E - Thu May 17, 2012 11:31 pm

The Zoom G3 and G5 may be worth trying out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfEa4ANaW6A&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dsVikzw9PA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zNCeYl5FGg

sealsongs - Fri May 18, 2012 7:23 am

I just got mine yesterday and have only had time to install the latest drivers, firmware, and editing software. However, was able to do a quick test this morning using the Divided by 13 model (love that boutique stuff) with a bit of tweaking.

Verdict: this is crazy good! There was so much more response, definition, and depth to the sound that I was grinning like a fool. I'd say run...don't walk...down to the store and get one. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Uncle E - Fri May 18, 2012 9:11 am

sealsongs wrote:

Which are you referring to?

sealsongs - Fri May 18, 2012 9:41 am

Uncle E wrote:

sealsongs wrote:

Which are you referring to?

Yeah, in this case I was just referring to the HD500 floor unit. For the record...I just think the other two floor models (HD300/400) are really missing too many features to be serious contenders. It seems to me that the HD500 really nails the price/performance thing much better than the other two. Smile

Hink - Fri May 18, 2012 11:55 am

Dean Aka Nekro wrote:

what did you get Dean? My new machine (i7 2600, 3.4ghz) is awesome and truly dedicated for audio (doesn't even have microsoft works)...I'm loving it with Samplitude Pro X...I only have one issue and will probably ask a stupid question in the computer forum later (my old DAW built by PC Audiolabs had cables and such inside for adding hardware, this one is different and I have yet to install my emu 1820 because I have no power cable for it but my presonus firestudio 26/26 with my rack effects does he same thing)

Eric, never again will my main DAW be a laptop but my needing something portable isn't like other people.

As for the POD HD, not even looking at it at this point. I think it's a bit of the fact I am running out of G.A.S. and also getting very tired of chasing updates, upgrades, keeping up to date with the latest this and that...frankly looking back at my purchases over the last 6 years I see that is a contributing factor to not getting things finished because I'm always dealing with new stuff. What I am using now will not be obsolete ever.

From this point on I'm going back to building, not buying (not 100% of course)...after the summer I want to build 1 pedal a month for at least 6 months, maybe more and I still want to build an amp and I still have one guitar project on the table and more mods to make to my baritone). Smile

lfm - Sat May 19, 2012 12:18 am

Thinking about evaluating HD Pro for rack mount.

I remember I was really disappointed having the POD XT Pro for a short while - and the peak led blinked having HB guitar and full volume. I had to reduce volume on guitar not to have overs.

I felt - are these people really serious about guitar or just single coil fanbois.

Answer: SC fanbois.

Have anybody ran the HD series with humbuckers?

And do they have simple TRS input for passive expression pedals - not needing go through a midi thingy first?

Thanks.

Dean Aka Nekro - Sat May 19, 2012 3:17 am

Hink wrote:

It is for the first time, A change for me/shock horror as you know I am not a big change sort of person, But my friend whom is building it for me has always used and had zero problems using them...an AMD CPU, Its a fast one, six(?) cores and 3.0 or above ghz, That much I know but for exact spec I will have to ask John Embarassed

16GB RAM...etc. one thing Im lucky with is that the old graphics card is still plenty enough for the new machine along with a few other bits so I am managing to save where possible, I know you have graphics programs though so probably need the power of a new/powerful card? I'll be glad to be off this damned laptop that is for certain! Plus obviously running my audio software to its proper potential Very Happy

A pedal a month sounds like a good plan and easy enough going to get it all neat. Then a life time of diming any amp and/or sim with any of them, Well at least 6 months until you pick your goto for each setup Wink

Which is about how long it takes me to be happy with exhausting each concievable setup. I have got alot more bits I got to either pickup and do (or both) though even when the audio machine is flying (Warmoth Baritone neck for one of my Jacskson's, alot of other bits and bobs like pickups for stuff...etc. Then studio upgrades gear wise) Always bloody something hey? Updates well yeah at least I will be running stuff that can be updated when needed HiHi

then except windows updates. Nice one my friend

Eric those Zoom units especially the first clip/demo sounds pretty good to me, I'll sure try one out. Cheers for the heads up on those dude

Best to you both

Dean

Dean Aka Nekro - Sat May 19, 2012 3:29 am

lfm wrote:

I never go anywhere near single-coils and near any bucker with a DC resistance below at least 11, So I hope thats not the case but I can live without one for sure anyway. I think Line 6 expect one to be using nothing but a Variax, fiddling around with workbench (or whatever its called) and jacking in via the dedicated variax link Laughing

Yeah right, Thats not happening here, Ever. The last part I can not answer as I ain't had a look/tried. However I'm sure they have a HD Floorboard in the works which will cost nearly as much as the damned POD HD Pro itself. They must of really cleaned up with those old floorboards until the XT Live sort of got rid of the need for them. I might be better of with one of the M thingies as i really don't need any more pre-amps/power-amps/mic'd cabs HD or not (still as said I will try just incase)

Let us know how you get on with it if and when lfm dude, Cheers

Dean

lfm - Sat May 19, 2012 4:22 am

Dean Aka Nekro wrote:

Thanks. So you're a high output hb guy, ha Wink

I had the SD JB and had to turn down volume on guitar to 5 not to get overs.

I looked through as much as I could find on Line6 site - which is really nice. I even looked in manuals och quick start guides. Plenty to read.

HD Bean seem to be a lot for the money(1/3 of HD Pro). Even with floorboard Express Mk2 it's much cheaper than HD floorboards(maybe same as HD300).

But bean does not provide a pad switch - which means one never knows how hb's are handled. Even fixing with bleed capacitors turning down volume does alter tone on guitar.

I don't fancy equipment trying to control me - it should be the other way around.

So I think HD Pro is safe regarding levels with pad switch. But nowhere could I find how much pad is attenuating. I have a LowDown10 for bass and pad is -10dB but one never knows. Most probably it's safe.

What is astonishing is that not all models provide pad switch!!!!!!
That is like saying:
- So, you've got a high output pickup on your guitar, sorry you must get that down somehow with our gear.

Makes me wonder - how serious are they about guitars, really?

I found an ad for used HD Pro for about 60% of new price - so that would help a bit. But a Express MK2 floorboard is minimum as well. No passive expression pedal input on HD Pro.

What's good about HD floorboards are that you can have an passive expression pedal as well as the regular onboard pedal. But you have to crawl on the floor to experiment with settings and stuff - PITA.

HD Pro is good with digital inputs as well for re-amping.
I'll make a post when I'm done.
Smile

Dean Aka Nekro - Sat May 19, 2012 7:14 am

Cheers for the detailed information. I would of thought for the money that at the very least a variable input level should be standard!

Humbucker wise yeah hot EMG85s on 18v, Bareknuckle Warpigs (Passive but absolutely savage) amongst others but those are the two goto setups and soonish I'll have a few SD Blackout Mick Thompson models which are pure perfect for me personally (I just avoid Ceramic based magnets even though it is usually the ceramic models which are even hotter output wise on pickups EMG 81 against the EMG 85 for example as I much prefer the thicker low-mids and less pick attack/fret noise area accentuating Alnico V based magnets, However that is purely a personal preference and nothing to do with quality and speaker wise for example Alnico based models are the opposite voice wise and feel wise than I prefer/works for me style wise again now't to do with quality as the Alnico based speakers are alot more pricey, I'd use an Alnico based speaker for clean work perhaps but nothing with gain on it). So yep i'd be straight into the red on DSP based gear that has not got compensation for modern buckers/setups which again I do not come accross often but its not good at all when one does

Cheers lfm and look forwards to hearing how it sounds for you and any problems with hot ouput humbuckers especially Thumbs Up!

Dean

Uncle E - Sun May 20, 2012 3:11 am

lfm wrote:

But bean does not provide a pad switch - which means one never knows how hb's are handled.

Maybe this could help?

http://www.jrrshop.com/catalog/shure-a15as-switchable-inline-attenuator-p-10104.html

Dean Aka Nekro - Sun May 20, 2012 3:48 am

Uncle E wrote:

lfm wrote:

But bean does not provide a pad switch - which means one never knows how hb's are handled.

Maybe this could help?

http://www.jrrshop.com/catalog/shure-a15as-switchable-inline-attenuator-p-10104.html

You know I just was thinking about how useful a little box (pedal) would be with something like that Shure switchable level attenuator along with that Radial varialable impedance load correction device aka dragster:

http://www.tonebone.com/tb-dragster.htm

What a box of usefulness that would be, I really like the way AVID's RackEleven automatically changes the impedance for the different amp models...But was thinking it would be even better if it were fully user controlable.

What do think hey? I mean using impedance to advantage with microphones and pre-amps yeilds great results sometimes so maybe just maybe it could be alot of use to use (abuse) the same idea with DSP guitar devices and of course amps/pedals too Idea

May build or buy and have a tinker Smile

lfm - Sun May 20, 2012 3:49 am

Uncle E wrote:

lfm wrote:

But bean does not provide a pad switch - which means one never knows how hb's are handled.

Maybe this could help?

http://www.jrrshop.com/catalog/shure-a15as-switchable-inline-attenuator-p-10104.html

Thanks.

Passive pickups usually want 500-1000 kohm as imput impedance to sound right. Microphones is a different story.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68600-REG/Shure_A15AS_A15AS_In_Line_Attenuator.html

You can always turn down volume on guitar - but with a penalty. I never succeded in getting the same tone with volume knob at 5 as on 10. The resistor that is created in series with signal works together with capacitance in cord to make a LP-filter. I managed to get this much better with a bleed capacitor+resistor in guitar but not the same as with knob on 10.

My overall feel is that this gear is not intended for guitar as much as they claim that - and I don't want equipment controlling me.

Dean Aka Nekro - Sun May 20, 2012 3:53 am

See above lfm, I know its more money to spend or another DIY project (If you are a DIY guy) but it could be sweet/problems solved?

All the best chaps

Dean

Edit: I presume that Eric is meaning along with whatever DI box you may have and instead of using the HiZ input DI your guitar into the POD?

lfm - Sun May 20, 2012 4:00 am

Dean Aka Nekro wrote:

May build or buy and have a tinker Smile

It is really scary if wireless systems for guitar is not doing this right from start.

When fixing a lot with bleeding-stuff on guitar I was into building one impedance converter, driven by a small 9V battery. Pretty much like this dragster thingy. Then cord after that box does not affect signal that much anymore - it could be 10m or more - and use volume knob on guitar as you like wihtout penalty.

Buffered stompboxen like Boss do this by default. So cord length until first stompbox affect signal, then not anymore. Bad thing is that all Boss pedals affect signal even when effect is not active - not true bypass.

lfm - Sun May 20, 2012 4:11 am

Dean Aka Nekro wrote:

Edit: I presume that Eric is meaning along with whatever DI box you may have and instead of using the HiZ input DI your guitar into the POD?

That's pretty cool idea actually. I got this rackmount Behringer DI800P to split bass and guitar into direct and through amp for record.

And it actually has -30dB pad as well. It might be too much but worth testing. Most likely the DI output is lower than original signal from pickups.

You guys are geniouses. Smile

Dean Aka Nekro - Sun May 20, 2012 4:19 am

Funny thing is line 6's own guitar wireless systems sounded really damned good to me the two which I have tried. Regarding the buffered vs true bypass thing, I go straight into a Boss NS-2 and after that it does not matter to me, As I do not switch my boost/overdrive off which is in the NS-2's loop and effects I rarely use, An old Boss DD-3 or DD-5 at most to be honest.
If I want a clean sound then it a simple AB/Y box with guitar straight to seperate amplifier to do cleans. Also using active pickups my 'tone' already has been sucked away/steralized according to the likes of Robert Keeley and co. Laughing

Maybe I would notice if I were doing subtle stuff with vintage gear that is more delicate to what it needs to be fed...but I am not so I pay no attention aslong as Im getting the sounds I am used to Smile

blueman - Sun May 20, 2012 7:03 am

Dean Aka Nekro wrote:

I presume that Eric is meaning along with whatever DI box you may have and instead of using the HiZ input DI your guitar into the POD?

Fwiw, the POD HD500 (with current firmware) does model different levels of impedence. No clue how they pulled it off but it does work and it's a great feature indeed Very Happy

Line 6 wrote:

Variable Input Impedance - This feature affects tone and feel because the guitar's pickups are being "loaded" as they would be by an effect pedal or a tube amplifier. There are eight selectable options which can change the analog circuitry affecting the impedance of the Guitar Input. The options include seven discrete resistor values: 22k, 32k, 70k, 90k, 230k, 1M, 3.5M. There is also an Auto setting. When set to Auto the input impedance can automatically change depending on which amp or effect model is first in the signal chain of the current preset. Impedance settings are saved as part of each preset's input selection

lfm - Sun May 20, 2012 8:01 am

blueman wrote:

Fwiw, the POD HD500 (with current firmware) does model different levels of impedence. No clue how they pulled it off but it does work and it's a great feature indeed Very Happy

What would be good info is how the pad switch i implemented?

Since it's supposed to attenuate signal not to get overs it might be done as a simple voltage divider before any circuit.

I hope they have first stage with plenty headroom and do that after first stage to preserve input impedance.

All guitargear should really have at least 500k->1Mohm input impedance not to load passive pickups too much. To my biggest surprice not all DI-boxes had this - far from all were suited for guitar. I looked through the entire Behringer line of DI-boxes. Out of 7-8 models, 2 were good for guitar as I remember it.

Uncle E - Sun May 20, 2012 11:15 am

There's this:

http://www.jrrshop.com/catalog/radial-dragster-p-6621.html

zerocrossing - Sun May 20, 2012 11:26 am

blueman wrote:

Here's another that's worth a watch and listen for those who are interested...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsPRVC6bxpI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I'm sorry, but that video, and all the POD HD 500 videos or demos I've been able to find scream "amp modeler." Good, but missing that special something.

However, the combo of the HD500 and a DT25 or 50 does seem to add that much needed magic back in.

I've been over and over it... I'm so torn. Line6 "Dream Rig" or Kemper? Help

Dean Aka Nekro - Sun May 20, 2012 12:55 pm

blueman wrote:

Dean Aka Nekro wrote:

I presume that Eric is meaning along with whatever DI box you may have and instead of using the HiZ input DI your guitar into the POD?

Fwiw, the POD HD500 (with current firmware) does model different levels of impedence. No clue how they pulled it off but it does work and it's a great feature indeed Very Happy

Line 6 wrote:

Thanks blueman for the information, Good to know that they are keeping on top of little details which do add up to making it as 'HD' as realistically as is reasonable and noted as a major plus for when I do eventually get proper chance to try one and evaluate whether to pull the trigger or not. Cheers

Dean Smile

blueman - Sun May 20, 2012 7:32 pm

zerocrossing wrote:

That's a fair point and I actually agree. For software, AmpliTube 3 beats it. For me, the appeal was combining the DT25 for the max benefit of both worlds. I couldn't be happier with this combination. I get true, tube amp tone with the magic of modeling technology and near-infinite options for effects. It is a quite complex rig though and that will turn off some ppl. This week, I finally broke through and found the right ways to dial it all in. Now, I'm loving all the possibilities.

I think the Kemper looks promising as well but...where can I try it out so I may return it if I'm unhappy Confused

That would worry me with am investment this big Shrug

That said, I'm sure it does sound amazing and who knows, I may own one someday. It never ends right? The answer to which one is always...both! HiHi

lfm - Mon May 21, 2012 2:53 am

Uncle E wrote:

There's this:

http://www.jrrshop.com/catalog/radial-dragster-p-6621.html

Thanks.

Some people really have issues with humbucker guitars:
http://line6.com/support/thread/76931

Uncle E - Mon May 21, 2012 10:50 am

blueman wrote:

I think the Kemper looks promising as well but...where can I try it out so I may return it if I'm unhappy Confused

We'll take it back. I can waive any restocking fees, as well.

SLiC - Mon May 21, 2012 11:02 am

zerocrossing wrote:

blueman wrote:

Here's another that's worth a watch and listen for those who are interested...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsPRVC6bxpI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Dont forget,if you gte the Kemper you still need an amp (or PA) if you play live, and all PAs can change the sound...at least you know what you will sound like from a DT25 and the HD500 gives you a good recording option for guitar, bass and vocals....

If your only recording, and only guitar, maybe the Kemper is the answer- some one will probably do a VST version soon (Guitar rig?), DT25 has real valves ans real volume Wink

Uncle E - Mon May 21, 2012 11:22 am

SLiC wrote:

True enough. The cool thing there is I think you can still feed the Pod HD 500's stereo outputs into the PA, which in my mind gives the best of both worlds (I hate miking up the guitar cab on live gigs).

Come to think of it, it'd be rad if Pods had separate outputs for pre-amp and post-amp modeling. That way we could feed the post-amp to the PA and the pre-amp effects into the front of an amp. I could find a way to put up with the sound of Pods if that were possible.

blueman - Mon May 21, 2012 2:24 pm

lfm wrote:

Some people really have issues with humbucker guitars:
http://line6.com/support/thread/76931

The HD500 "issues" are mostly user error related as the learning curve is quite high for this unit and there are some design flaws with the way the HDs handle dual inputs. Most (if not all) of these issues can be worked around with a healthy amount of patience and research Smile

Uncle E - Mon May 21, 2012 2:58 pm

blueman wrote:

Most (if not all) of these issues can be worked around with a healthy amount of patience and research Smile

That's what I'm missing! D'oh!

blueman - Mon May 21, 2012 3:30 pm

Uncle E wrote:

blueman wrote:

Most (if not all) of these issues can be worked around with a healthy amount of patience and research Smile

That's what I'm missing! D'oh!

Ha! There are some exceptions I'm sure and some notable design flaws where Line 6 has made it harder than it needs to be to deal with gain staging. MeAmBobbo's guide was a HUGE help to me in this area and I HIGHLY recommend it Thumbs Up!

lfm - Tue May 22, 2012 1:25 am

blueman wrote:

lfm wrote:

Some people really have issues with humbucker guitars:
http://line6.com/support/thread/76931

Sure it is userrelated - playing a humbucker guitar! Wink

And the cure is - switch to SC guitar if to use Line6. Very Happy

Line6 support(which seems excellent) informed me that HD500 and HD Pro has pad switches, and meant I should buy those models if having humbucker guitar.

I have not tried HD versions yet and they might have increased headroom on inputs on HD series compared to XT - I don't know. But since some models come with -10dB pad it's needed in some cases.

I'm puzzled.

blueman - Tue May 22, 2012 5:19 am

The HD is a complicated beast. I do just fine with humbucker pups but it took some work to figure this all out enough to be satisfied with it. If I didn't have the matching DT25 amp, I may have already lost patience and returned it but I'm glad I stuck out Wink

lfm - Tue May 22, 2012 5:36 am

blueman wrote:

So it wasn't just to press the pad button and off you go?
You've got the HD500, didn't you?

I have nothing really high output - just regular Gibson and Ibanez, Burstbucker Pro, 57 Classic, 490R, 498T, Ibanez 70's or similar.

Then a Jazzmaster, but that's SC(P90 looking).

If nothing else I really liked the speaker cabinet emulation in XT Pro, to get a really nice small ambient room for the guitar.

Best emulation I found otherwise is Izotope Trash boxmodels, and the ability to place two mikes where ever you want and regarding distance - not just the regular on axis or off axis.

It's very practical with digital stuff and you can continue working at quite different occations and always get the same guitarsound each time.

I must pick a guitar and make a visit to a store that let me play for a while.

blueman - Tue May 22, 2012 11:51 am

lfm wrote:

blueman wrote:

So it wasn't just to press the pad button and off you go?
You've got the HD500, didn't you?

Yes, I have the HD500. The MOST important thing is to get the gain staging right and it's not (necessarily) set up, out of the box for that. It seems to be set up for dual input, stereo rigs. So, first I go to the mixer, and set Path A to MUTE and Path B to center (pan) and 0db (unity gain). Then, I go to "INPUT SOURCE" and make sure "Guitar" is selected on input one and something that is not being used, like "Aux" for input two. The default "Same" setting for the second input is erroneous and can cause digital clipping because it multiplies the signal. The same is true for setting both inputs to "Guitar". People may like the tone because it's louder but further down the signal chain, they are setting themselves up for digital clipping. Make sense?

So yeah, big learning curve and strange defaults make for easy pitfalls with this unit Shrug

metalifuxx - Tue May 22, 2012 12:12 pm

I have a Behringer V-Amp that has an input gain setting hidden in the edit menu parameters, maybe it is the same for the original PODs, seemed to make a difference between using my single coil strat and my LP humbuckers.

zerocrossing - Tue May 22, 2012 12:33 pm

Uncle E wrote:

SLiC wrote:

I was just thinking about this myself as it seems like you'd want some things like stomp effects in front of an amp and other things post preamp. I think the direct link with the DT amps deals with this issue, but if you're using another device then you're up the creek.

lfm - Tue May 22, 2012 12:59 pm

blueman wrote:

Thanks.

I saw on some of the floor-PODs they had a switch for amp or studio, why not a third option for the other obvious alternative one wonders?

Make it real easy for all Line6 gear. This gear if anything should be plug and play.

Strange.

pbecker314 - Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:26 am

Just wanted to mention that I recently bought a Zoom G5 out of curiosity, to compare with the HD500/DT25 system. It came in last week, and I spent a couple of days running the G5 straight into the PA through the XLR connection, and I also ran it into the front end and the power amp input on three combo amps (a Fender, an Egnater, and the DT25).

At first I thought I was hearing some pretty good things out of the G5, especially straight into the board. However, after much tweaking, and side-by-side comparison with the HD500/DT25 (run by itself or into the PA through the direct out on the DT25), I've come to the conclusion that it's no contest: DT25/HD500 winds hands down. To me, the G5 sounds like a toy in comparison. Of course, this is highly subjective, to say the least, but that's the conclusion I reached. The G5 is going back as soon as I get the RAN from the retailer.

This is not to say that the G5 sounds bad, I believe it sounds pretty good actually, but the fidelity through either an amp or the PA is much lower than the Line 6 system. This is apparent in both the high end and the low end.

The whole experience left me even more strongly bonded with the HD500/DT25. It's without a doubt the best rig I've ever used, so far I have played 6 live shows with it, and it just keeps getting better and better! YMMV, but I'm totally loving it Smile

The HD500/DT25 sounds like the amps it's supposed to sound like. The G5 gets fairly close, but the lower fidelity was the deal-breaker for me.

Pete

Uncle E - Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:18 am

pbecker314 wrote:

The HD500/DT25 sounds like the amps it's supposed to sound like. The G5 gets fairly close, but the lower fidelity was the deal-breaker for me.

Bummer, I was hoping the G5 would be cool, just because of that great expression pedal.

zerocrossing - Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:37 am

SLiC wrote:

You say that as if most gigs don't go down with some sort of PA anyway. Yesterday I went to a friend's party and they rented out a nice space and had their band play a set. I got there early and the band was still sound checking and I thought to myself, "Ah... this. If only they had all had Kemper's this would have taken 15 minutes." I've mixed my fair share of gigs and let me tell you it's always a struggle to get guitarists (especially bass players) to keep their rig at a volume that lets me do a good job. Everyone wants to kick their amp up to it's "sweet spot" so then you've got to crank the vocals and before you know it you're getting feedback so you're backing off and then the vocals are swamped. When was the last time you went to a gig where the vocals weren't somewhat swamped? So there's your "real volume." It's almost always contributing to a crappy mix. This wasn't a heavy band either. They were doing kind of groovy 60s sounding lounge/rock. They ended up sounding pretty good... better than most bands I hear live, though the bass was always a bit too loud and most of the time the lead guitarists was too far back in the mix. As I watched it all go down I couldn't help but think of how much better they could have sounded and how effortless it would have been if they'd all had a pure modeling set up. Oh, I forgot to mention, their drummer had to cancel so they were sans drums. I'm sure if they had their drummer it would have been even harder to get a good mix.

Just a note, less you think these people were a bunch of amateurs, the lead guitarist is a professional live audio engineer who knows his stuff. The whole band is full of seasoned pros.

Oddly, after they played a duo of two acoustic guitarists/vocalists played and there was no issue with the mix.

So, to all the amp-meisters out there: All that "tube-amp magic" and "real volume" you love is overall making your band sound a lot worse than if they were all using decent modelers. There! I SAID IT! Laughing

Sure, there are some venues, engineers, bands, etc that are the exception to this rule, but not many. You guitarists are like the Nazis at the end of Raiders Of The Lost Ark... mesmerized by the beauty of your face melting tone! HiHi

zerocrossing - Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:41 am

Uncle E wrote:

pbecker314 wrote:

The HD500/DT25 sounds like the amps it's supposed to sound like. The G5 gets fairly close, but the lower fidelity was the deal-breaker for me.

Bummer, I was hoping the G5 would be cool, just because of that great expression pedal.

I'm curious. How does the G5 do against the HD500 without the DT25? Using a real tube amp at the end is an unfair advantage to the Pod no? I've found the Pod to sound great as an effects processor in the effect loop of my Kemper, but I was far less impressed by it on it's own and trust me I had a good gain stage the whole way. I'm not saying it sounded bad but I bet I could get just as good a tone from using a software VST amp modeler.

Uncle E - Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:55 am

zerocrossing wrote:

As I watched it all go down I couldn't help but think of how much better they could have sounded and how effortless it would have been if they'd all had a pure modeling set up.

Agreed. When The Eagles play live, the sound on the stage is minimal because everyone's amps are direct and they're all monitoring through in-ears.

zerocrossing - Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:33 am

Uncle E wrote:

zerocrossing wrote:

As I watched it all go down I couldn't help but think of how much better they could have sounded and how effortless it would have been if they'd all had a pure modeling set up.

Agreed. When The Eagles play live, the sound on the stage is minimal because everyone's amps are direct and they're all monitoring through in-ears.

I remember seeing Yes at Madison Square Garden in the mid 80s... maybe it was the Big Generator tour... I can't remember, but I think they had all their amps offstage with iso cabs. I think they may have had wedge monitors on stage... I can't remember but it was a very empty stage. What I do remember clearly was the band sounded like their CD played though a very loud PA system in an arena. One of the better sounding big show's I've been to.

pbecker314 - Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:40 am

Uncle E wrote:

Okay, this is an interesting question. However, I had already determined through previous experiments that I did not like the HD500 direct into the board. For me, with the level of PA I have access to, that was not a solution for good live tone. I guess it might have been a solution if I had a high-end PA. Anyway, so that's what led me to try the HD500 through an Egnater tube combo. That was encouraging, but it was not quite there tone-wise. That's when I decided to up the ante and try the DT25, which is when I was finally able to get what I was looking for, great tone on stage and through the PA, using the direct out on the DT25.

Getting back to your question, the answer is that I never compared the G5 with the HD500 with both going direct into the board! It never occurred to me to do that since it would be a step backward for the utilization of the Line 6 system, since I already knew it sounded way better with the DT25 in the loop. My goal was to see if I could top the sound of the DT25/HD500 system. It is possible that the G5 sounds better than the HD500 direct into the board, but that was not really the issue for me Smile

Pete

zerocrossing - Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:40 am

pbecker314 wrote:

Uncle E wrote:

Pete

I actually wrote that, not Uncle E, but thanks for the reply. Zoom seems to be horrible for providing demo tracks that sound decent. There videos seem to be rock guys talking forever and then a horrible camera mic recording of the unit itself. Rolling Eyes

Dear manufacturers, please post high quality wav files of your units for people to listen to.

This is one that I thought was pretty good, done by a user:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfEa4ANaW6A&feature=related

Not bad... probably on par with the HD500. Here's another that sounds pretty good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlLhxtGvmdg&feature=related

Like Uncle E I really love their pedal design... almost enough to get one... but not quite. One of the reasons I went with the POD HD was because of the possible path to get a DT25 combo amp sometime down the line... but I doubt that'll happen. Also, I love the Line6 synth models a lot and I've come up with a fun way to use amp models as distortion/boost pedals in the Kemper's effect loop. I probably would have been just has happy with the G5, maybe happier because the UI looks a lot better, but I don't think I'm going to mess with my set up now. I've got it sounding fantastic.

blueman - Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:14 pm

zerocrossing wrote:

Also, I love the Line6 synth models a lot

I think that Line 6's FX are ALONE, worth the extra hassle of the HD500 and its non-user friendly UI. The L6 link to the DT25 of course, makes it a no-brainer for me but...I would consider it as an all-in-one FX unit that can go toe to toe with some of the better ones I've heard. At the $400-$500 range it is justifiable when you consider that they still fetch that for the M13 FX boards.

Uncle E - Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:54 pm

In that case, the Pod HD 300 seems like a better move, especially since it's got the amp bypass mode that I think the 400 and 500 lack.

zerocrossing - Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:57 pm

Uncle E wrote:

In that case, the Pod HD 300 seems like a better move, especially since it's got the amp bypass mode that I think the 400 and 500 lack.

You can bypass the amp on the 500.

zerocrossing - Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:03 pm

blueman wrote:

zerocrossing wrote:

Also, I love the Line6 synth models a lot

I think that Line 6's FX are ALONE, worth the extra hassle of the HD500 and its non-user friendly UI.

Luckily Line6 has provided a work around for that horrible UI by providing a really nice software editor. I'm pretty sure if it were not for the editor I would have returned it. With the software editor it's easy as pie to use. The only thing I find really weird with it is that it's duel inputs seem to both always have to have a selection. I'm using the line in so I chose "Variax" based on recommendations from people, but why there's no "none" is beyond me.

Once you're over that hurdle it's not that hard to figure out. Sure, you can get clipping if you're not careful during all the gain stages, but that's to be expected. So far I've found it to be pretty straight forward to set up when using the software editor.

Uncle E - Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:18 pm

I'm thinking of trying the Kemper with the Behringer F1320D wedge monitor:

http://jrrshop.com/catalog/behringer-eurolive-f1320d-monitor-speaker-p-11693.html

Uncle E - Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:20 pm

zerocrossing wrote:

You can bypass the amp on the 500.

Can you make that setting universally or do you have to change each preset? With the 300, there's an amp bypass button that I believe bypasses it on every patch.

zerocrossing - Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:52 pm

Uncle E wrote:

zerocrossing wrote:

You can bypass the amp on the 500.

Can you make that setting universally or do you have to change each preset? With the 300, there's an amp bypass button that I believe bypasses it on every patch.

Oh, I think it's only per preset.

hibidy - Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:17 pm

Fastest return I ever made to GC

blueman - Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:29 pm

hibidy wrote:

Fastest return I ever made to GC

Right on hibidy. Thanks for playing, please come again Very Happy

hibidy - Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:32 pm

I tried for 2 1/2 months not to say anything. I hit my breaking point today Embarassed

blueman - Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:36 pm

hibidy wrote:

I tried for 2 1/2 months not to say anything. I hit my breaking point today Embarassed

And you make me proud for that Wink

hibidy - Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:38 pm

I'll leave now

blueman - Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:41 pm

hibidy wrote:

I'll leave now

No, no, I'm serious. I like open debate, not everybody agreeing all of the time! If you think it sucks, then I like hearing about it and why. It's all in good fun my friend so, never take the blueman too serious Very Happy

hibidy - Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:44 pm

Oh, it's nothing you said, I have no doubt about what you say......I just should have never said anything.

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