KVR :: Everything Else (Music related) » Devs hijack every thread? [View Original Topic]
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HcDoom - Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:52 pm
What's up with this crazy devs who hijack every thread and talk how good their product is and how competition ones have flaws and undermine them?
Be a true developer and let your product speak for itself. But at the moment, I am 100% sure that I wont buy anything made by Oxium dev or the Corona dev. I tried both synths and I find them nothing but average. So, I don't understand the hype at all.
Look at Sylenth dev, he never showed up his ass and never undermined anything, but his product speak for itself. And I bet that either Corona or Oxium will never have the status of Sylenth, not even close. Btw, have you ever saw a Massive dev or Omnisphere devs in any of this threads? Just saying...
Bye...
Anonymous - Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:55 pm
DELETED
boimb - Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:58 pm
HcDoom wrote:
What's up with this crazy devs who hijack every thread and talk how good their product is and how competition ones have flaws and undermine them?
Be a true developer and let your product speak for itself. But at the moment, I am 100% sure that I wont buy anything made by Oxium dev or the Corona dev. I tried both synths and I find them nothing but average. So, I don't understand the hype at all.
Look at Sylenth dev, he never showed up his ass and never undermined anything, but his product speak for itself. And I bet that either Corona or Oxium will never have the status of Sylenth, not even close. Btw, have you ever saw a Massive dev or Omnisphere devs in any of this threads? Just saying...
Bye...
Be a true developer and let your product speak for itself. But at the moment, I am 100% sure that I wont buy anything made by Oxium dev or the Corona dev. I tried both synths and I find them nothing but average. So, I don't understand the hype at all.
Look at Sylenth dev, he never showed up his ass and never undermined anything, but his product speak for itself. And I bet that either Corona or Oxium will never have the status of Sylenth, not even close. Btw, have you ever saw a Massive dev or Omnisphere devs in any of this threads? Just saying...
Bye...
Bye!
HcDoom - Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:58 pm
Yes, those IK ones are like in every thread. Synthmaster dev can also go ''opposite'' way most of the time.
Mutant - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:02 pm
Learn to subconsciously filter them out just like you do with adverts in TV.
Kriminal - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:04 pm
HcDoom wrote:
I tried both synths
thats the idea, to get you to try and then buy....it half worked for you, prob did work for others.
Tricky-Loops - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:11 pm
Since Ernest is banned, it's getting much more boring here... His posts at least had an entertaining character...
Because we don't know anything if the other developers have pretty daughters, too...
quayquay17 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:32 pm
I agree in part with the OP, but there's another side to it, which is that the dev of sylenth is basically inaccessible to his customers, while the devs that ARE active on the forums can be asked questions, recieve feedback, etc.
+'s and -'s
Edit: I have a bigger problem not when devs highjack threads about their own synths, but when they plug in a "what's a good synth" or "your favorite synth" thread... I mean, look, we already know your own stuff is your favorite!
BDeep - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:45 pm
What's bothering me about this, is that it's bothering other people (myself included), which leads to discussions about all the bothering, which leads to endless discussions that SEEM to be about synths, but are far from.
So yeah, I find it distracting because of all the hiss it carries along. But as quayquay says, there's a good side as well, in that they're being an active member of the community. So hmmmm, whatdoyado?
4damind - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:46 pm
Quote:
I have a bigger problem not when devs highjack threads about their own synths, but when they plug in a "what's a good synth" or "your favorite synth" thread... I mean, look, we already know your own stuff is your favorite!
Like this from our spamming George. If he has a good day also with links and stuff
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5041995#5041995
Maybe the mods cannot stop him but users can give him (and other devs or spokesman) a idea that they are not welcome.
kejkz - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:47 pm
everyone has a right for an opinion... even developers!
Hink - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:48 pm
BDeep wrote:
whatdoyado?
make bad jokes
bronxsound - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:49 pm
Mutant wrote:
Learn to subconsciously filter them out just like you do with adverts in TV.
nice one
George - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:50 pm
4damind stop calling me spammer. I'm respectful to you.
Of course other people won't like what I'm doing. They're called competitors (devs, fanboys, shills, you name it).
quayquay17 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:54 pm
If a dev spams in the forest, and no one hears them, have they spammed?
BDeep - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:55 pm
Hink wrote:
BDeep wrote:
whatdoyado?
make bad jokes
whyterabbyt - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:55 pm
george wrote:
Of course other people won't like what I'm doing. They're called competitors.
no, most of arent. and we're still fed up of seeing the same devs pimping themselves in every possible thread.
cryophonik - Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:56 pm
I do find it a little annoying in some cases, to be honest, but I think that there is a fine line between a developer providing useful and relevant information about their products, and spamming their products. And, that line is probably different for every forum member. Personally, I guess I'd rather deal with a little spam from developers, rather than have them be wary of posting for fear of being viewed as spam.
Nokenoku - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:00 pm
Could the you post some links to examples?
I mean in some cases, a developer might overdo it and drift into "bold marketing", but in some cases I think it's ok, if a dev recommends his own software (as long as he gives some good reasons, why).
I also think it's ok, when a dev comes into a thread, where some plugins (including his) are discussed, to just point to some features of his software, in which the people in the thread might be interested in.
I think it's ok to advertise the own stuff, as long as you're not doing it in a "my software is better than this other software" way.
Tricky-Loops - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:01 pm
george wrote:
4damind stop calling me spammer. I'm respectful to you.
Of course other people won't like what I'm doing. They're called competitors (devs, fanboys, shills, you name it).
Of course other people won't like what I'm doing. They're called competitors (devs, fanboys, shills, you name it).
Oh no, that's the Heaven-on-Earth-Disease...
Don't think that every big company is against you... There are much more ordinary people than competitors who just don't want to see advertisement shows.
chk071 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:09 pm
I find the daily Oxium threads more than annoying (actually it's not even daily threads, it's just that the OP, of course employee of the company, seems to re-name the thread every time he gets accused of shamelessly advertising his product with a thread full of, what he says, useful information and feature requests). Basically, if i want information about the synth, i go to their website, check the specs listen to audio demos and try the demo and if i like it, i buy it, big deal. And if i have a feature request, i probably would do it in their own forum, which they have as the OP stated...
Don't get me wrong, it's totally alright to announce it here in the forums, and totally ok to discuss it also, but in these threads you feel with every word the penetrance of guerilla marketing of these guys, it's just no good style anymore. At least i found those threads pretty ridiculous...
George - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:15 pm
Quote:
Don't think that every big company is against you... There are much more ordinary people than competitors who just don't want to see advertisement shows.
No I don't mean every big company. I mean that there will always be certain devs, fanboys, shills or socket puppets that won't like what I do.
But that's just life.
I think I still have the right to mention and promote our products where I see fit (unless asked by a forum authority to stop doing so).
Quote:
no, most of arent. and we're still fed up of seeing the same devs pimping themselves in every possible thread.
Easy with the reality distortion field!
Ladies and gentleman, I had enough forum drama today. See you
tehlord - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:20 pm
george wrote:
I think I still have the right to mention and promote our products where I see fit (unless asked by a forum authority to stop doing so).
You do have the right.
It might be worth mentioning however that you in particular, annoy me with your 'marketing' in other peoples threads and it's put a mental block on me buying any of your products. And I buy a lot of software. I'm sure I'm not the only one either.
No real malice intended, just information for you to chew on and consider/ignore at will.
aMUSEd - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:20 pm
4damind wrote:
Quote:
I have a bigger problem not when devs highjack threads about their own synths, but when they plug in a "what's a good synth" or "your favorite synth" thread... I mean, look, we already know your own stuff is your favorite!
Like this from our spamming George. If he has a good day also with links and stuff
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5041995#5041995
Maybe the mods cannot stop him but users can give him (and other devs or spokesman) a idea that they are not welcome.
I'd rather people just gave it a rest tbh. Even if you are irritated by it you do not have the right to speak for the whole forum and all the aggro this causes in certain threads is getting tedious. Much worse than the occasional bit of product promotion from devs.
Urs - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:29 pm
I don't care as long as they don't talk bollocks about our stuff, like that accusation of "bad optimisation" earlier this year that some people took for granted.
We plug a few products here and there, but the true winner in creating revenue streams is paid advertisement for products that are worth it - as bad as it sounds, it's reality. Forums are great for support, feedback and fun, but they're less useful if one wants to pay employees and stuff. Hence I'm not sure if they're doing themselves a favour.
_leras - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:37 pm
Urs wrote:
I don't care as long as they don't talk bollocks about our stuff, like that accusation of "bad optimisation" earlier this year that some people took for granted.
We plug a few products here and there, but the true winner in creating revenue streams is paid advertisement for products that are worth it - as bad as it sounds, it's reality. Forums are great for support, feedback and fun, but they're less useful if one wants to pay employees and stuff. Hence I'm not sure if they're doing themselves a favour.
We plug a few products here and there, but the true winner in creating revenue streams is paid advertisement for products that are worth it - as bad as it sounds, it's reality. Forums are great for support, feedback and fun, but they're less useful if one wants to pay employees and stuff. Hence I'm not sure if they're doing themselves a favour.
fwiw, I personally think that you go about it the right way Urs. Offer information, rebut false claims or descriptions of your products and generally encourage interesting discussion about your products.
I also think other companies like camel, fxpansion also handle this well. open, honest candid and informative.
There are some that just derail threads though via spam, constant rebumping, renaming threads constantly, which is bloody annoying and even stops proper discussion of their own products...
_leras - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:39 pm
tehlord wrote:
george wrote:
I think I still have the right to mention and promote our products where I see fit (unless asked by a forum authority to stop doing so).
You do have the right.
It might be worth mentioning however that you in particular, annoy me with your 'marketing' in other peoples threads and it's put a mental block on me buying any of your products. And I buy a lot of software. I'm sure I'm not the only one either.
No real malice intended, just information for you to chew on and consider/ignore at will.
georg... i.e. None of your synths are a Roland emulation.... yet you were quick to hop in.
cryophonik - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:43 pm
...n/m.
t3toooo - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:44 pm
i for myself would never buy the reverb from this developer with the nordic name,for example ,he's popping up on every third thread.
Edit,nevermind.
i realized i already have it.
but there are synth's from one dev that i must read about all the time on kvr he named them like horse,a "famous actress" and "bacteria".
4damind - Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:59 pm
Urs wrote:
I don't care as long as they don't talk bollocks about our stuff, like that accusation of "bad optimisation" earlier this year that some people took for granted.
We plug a few products here and there, but the true winner in creating revenue streams is paid advertisement for products that are worth it - as bad as it sounds, it's reality. Forums are great for support, feedback and fun, but they're less useful if one wants to pay employees and stuff. Hence I'm not sure if they're doing themselves a favour.
We plug a few products here and there, but the true winner in creating revenue streams is paid advertisement for products that are worth it - as bad as it sounds, it's reality. Forums are great for support, feedback and fun, but they're less useful if one wants to pay employees and stuff. Hence I'm not sure if they're doing themselves a favour.
IMO you are some of the most respected developer _because_ you are not such a spammer like some others but have products on the table speaking for his own. It's a different thing to give useful informations or chime-in if some competitors talking bollocks about own products.
But this self promoting in every thread, this sock puppets or shills... Maybe many users have had enough of this...
Lotuzia - Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:04 pm
chk071 wrote:
I find the daily Oxium threads more than annoying (actually it's not even daily threads, it's just that the OP, of course employee of the company, seems to re-name the thread every time he gets accused of shamelessly advertising his product with a thread full of, what he says, useful information and feature requests). Basically, if i want information about the synth, i go to their website, check the specs listen to audio demos and try the demo and if i like it, i buy it, big deal. And if i have a feature request, i probably would do it in their own forum, which they have as the OP stated...
Don't get me wrong, it's totally alright to announce it here in the forums, and totally ok to discuss it also, but in these threads you feel with every word the penetrance of guerilla marketing of these guys, it's just no good style anymore. At least i found those threads pretty ridiculous...
Don't get me wrong, it's totally alright to announce it here in the forums, and totally ok to discuss it also, but in these threads you feel with every word the penetrance of guerilla marketing of these guys, it's just no good style anymore. At least i found those threads pretty ridiculous...
We made one Oxium thread, wich was locked for some reasons, independant of our will. ( 777 posts, 55 000 views, maybe this is why you saw the original thread a lot lately)
Then we started a second thread to continue the first one because we feel that people who are interested in Oxium have the right to get informed, and so that we can communicate with them, because there ARE people who are interested in Oxium, as you could read in the 777 posts original thread, and in the second one, and I'm sure you will agree that these persons opinions have the right to be respected ALSO, after all they live on the same forum than you dont they ? .
This second thread was unfortunately lost while a moderator tried to separate the non usefull part of it.
So our thread was estimated perfectly legit, while some posts in our thread were not judged usefull.
You have the perfect right to find these info threads ridiculous, and not to be interested in Oxium. Maybe you could just avoid and ignore them.
For your information, I'm not a Xils employee.
For your information also, we were invited to start a new informative Oxium thread by the moderator. Imo : This sums it all.
LtZ
t3toooo - Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:13 pm
excuse me,
THIS is a troll thread and not good explained what it is all about,it's not worth to excuse anything because what you will read here are only flames and piss.
the original poster joined kvr in 2012 and personally i'm not interested like many many other users,if he does like corona or not,
trimph1 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:15 pm
What is with this us vs them imagery here?
To me, developers are part of this community as well. Like it or not.
Now watch, someone will come along and suggest that I am a fanboi of certain developers or better yet, a 'spokesperson'.....
ATS - Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:21 pm
Quote:
have you ever saw a Omnisphere dev in any of this threads
lots of times. And the sound set guy are way worse than the synth developers. But I don't mind because I find a lot of good soundsets this way.
ATS - Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:25 pm
george wrote:
Quote:
Don't think that every big company is against you... There are much more ordinary people than competitors who just don't want to see advertisement shows.
No I don't mean every big company. I mean that there will always be certain devs, fanboys, shills or socket puppets that won't like what I do.
But that's just life.
I think I still have the right to mention and promote our products where I see fit (unless asked by a forum authority to stop doing so).
Quote:
no, most of arent. and we're still fed up of seeing the same devs pimping themselves in every possible thread.
Easy with the reality distortion field!
Ladies and gentleman, I had enough forum drama today. See you
George don't worry. your products are great and do speak for themselves. Nothing is wrong with promoting your products either, if they are worth promoting. Your products are worth promoting.
JoeCat - Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:53 pm
U-he, Xils, DiscoDSP - all established, legitimate, developers open to communicating on the forum. They're not hacks spamming ripped-off sample libraries. They have different approaches to communicating their message, and this is a global forum with cultural/language differences to be accounted for when communicating. I don't think putting up with a little enthusiastic marketing is a big deal when a company is also using the forum to be responsive, listen to customers, and provide free support.
There's some competition, things can occasionally get a little out of hand, and it gets sorted out. But it's more like family here, and if your little brother is annoying you talking about his toys, you ignore him. You don't lock him out of the house.
A thousand 12-year olds posting "How do I make this sound?", and we gotta complain about the devs?
Jeez...
quayquay17 - Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:03 pm
JoeCat wrote:
A thousand 12-year olds posting "How do I make this sound?", and we gotta complain about the devs?
Jeez...
We're griping about that in the "noob comment of the day" thread too.
Just complaining in general.
hibidy - Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 pm
Quote:
...n/m.
best post yet
A.M. Gold - Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:29 pm
trimph1 wrote:
What is with this us vs them imagery here?
To me, developers are part of this community as well. Like it or not.
Now watch, someone will come along and suggest that I am a fanboi of certain developers or better yet, a 'spokesperson'.....
To me, developers are part of this community as well. Like it or not.
Now watch, someone will come along and suggest that I am a fanboi of certain developers or better yet, a 'spokesperson'.....
Spam, Barry, that's what the issue is.
Who defines what spam is, you ask? I guess every individual defines it based on where the line of annoyance is for them.
I found a certain, ehem...bovine...developer to be doing something I considered to be a spam technique, but others disagreed, which is fine. I still felt I was in the clear to at least express my opinion in what is supposed to be a general public forum, not really a free yellow pages for developers.
But on the exact subject at hand, only...Eye Kaye (not their real name) really get on my nerves as far as the well established devs here, and that is mostly because they are like a tag team (no one else has that particular approach) and they have a sense of thread-creep, where they just seem to be oozing into threads where I'm scratching my head and saying to myself "was that product-pitch post really appropriate here?"
hibidy - Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:31 pm
eye kaye
omg, yer killin' me man! A.M. Gold - Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:53 pm
Hey, I need some plausible deniability here.
darsho - Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:27 am
michi_mak wrote:
you could add some others too ( i'd vote for ik and synthmaster dev )
)ik are the worst.
I don't understand the policy of KVR in this regard, tbh.
They use the forum for guerilla marketing without paying.
If it was my forum, I would limit such activities to their subforum and if they want to advertise their shitty stuff, pay for ads.
A.M. Gold - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:28 am
Yea, but what do you really think?
Compyfox - Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:14 am
trimph1 wrote:
Now watch, someone will come along and suggest that I am a fanboi of certain developers or better yet, a 'spokesperson'.....
You don't have any idea how often that happens to me in metering threads or through PM.
trimph1 - Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:59 am
Compyfox wrote:
trimph1 wrote:
Now watch, someone will come along and suggest that I am a fanboi of certain developers or better yet, a 'spokesperson'.....
You don't have any idea how often that happens to me in metering threads or through PM.
SODDI - Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:21 am
Strictly speaking, wouldn't real spam be something entirely OT, like a Mexican Viagra ad or some junk about how you can refinance your mortgage at a low, low rate?
I mean, you are on a music software website. And it doesn't take a lot of energy to ignore something.
highkoo - Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:35 am
Id just like to say that if KvR had the opposite "problem" (e.g. Not a dev in sight) it would not be the same place at all.
I rarely feel that the 'marketing' is intrusive. It is generally helpful first, and by 'coincidence', marketing.
George is an easy target. He is.. thorough.
But I dont think I have ever seen a post from him that would be considered intrusive or out of place.
To me the test is this:
If the post had been made by a random member, would it hold water? Basically- Is it valid as anything but marketing? If it is, then I think its ok. I think we should value it kinda.
Afterall, the dev is usually going to be the expert on the app right?
Hink - Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:46 am
as a consumer I dislike when salesmen are down my throat the minute I walk in a store, acknowledge me but please do not hover over me and allow me to look around and if I have questions please be available to answer those questions and you will likely not only make a sale but have a returning customer.
As a salesman my approach was to greet someone with a friendly hello and a smile, let them know if they need anything I'm there, then let them go about their business while I observe from a distance. After a bit checking in with the shopper, asking light open ended questions is the next step. Sometimes I would see a customer looking at a particular item and go with that, but never pushy. Once a dialog has been established I found as a salesman, features, brand names and such were useless if you wanted a repeat customer. The key was establishing the customers needs, addressing those by pointing out the benefits of different products features. (benefits that from my observation I know will work best for the customer)
People love to talk about themselves, not just me as some here will pipe in and troll about but all of us...we love to talk about our gear. The best salesmen listen first and talk second, get the customer to talk, address his/her needs and you make a friend as well. (from both sides)
There is a fine line between being pushy and being attentive to the customer, customers do not want to be ignored but they want to have time to think on their own and not have a salesman pushing everything down their throats. As a customer I have walked out of many stores (not just music stores) because of this very thing.
There are some reps here (and some developers) who are beyond pushy and from my own experience in sales and as a customer I see it hurting more than helping their company. This thread should be a red flag to them because it is clear that many people feel this way. (I'm glad there is a thread about this subject so no one has to hi-jack threads to make this point) Like I said there is a fine line and professionals need to know where that line is because once they cross it they might not recover.
The bigger problem here is that these people are not selling all the brands associated with one product but only their own product. As a result that line is much clearer because it is easy to figure out that they are not concerned with your benefits at all, all they care about is pushing their products and the features of their product, quite often with hype. They see the line, they cross it with no regrets and in the end people seem to resent that company. They have an agenda and a narrow one at that.
I said it all starts with listening but these people are not listening and only when they see failure will they look back and see their mistakes. Even though the customers who's trust they want are telling them flat out they dont like it they refuse to see the writing on the wall because they are not listening. So why would a customer have faith in that company if they blatantly ignore the customers criticisms (or worse, actually argue with them about how they feel, no one has the right to tell another how to feel), especially when often it comes down to dropping a large sum of money on something during a very rough economy?
Terrible to use such a cliche but to those people I say we have two ears and only one mouth for a reason. Please stop telling us what we need and listen to us about what we need.
Anonymous - Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:07 am
DELETED
braj - Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:36 am
I don't mind a sales pitch, I don't mind a forum thread about a new product, but developers bumping threads like some people fart just gets on my nerves. George makes post in a thread then shuts up, i don't mind that even when it is maybe irrelevant, but when developers knock other developers and constantly promote their own wares, I could do without that. i feel if a developer really wants to have an active presence on KVR they should get a subforum, even if they have their own forum on their own website. That way if they want to ask their users for FR 's or whatever it won't be at the top of the instruments forum every time I check it. It just seems inappropriate and definitely more a marketing ploy than some really 'useful information' for the benefit of the community.
wiwatti - Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:43 am
Quote:
Devs hijack every thread?
The developers' who are not frustrated by their total commercial failure do not.
BUT
At the same time The developers' who are frustrated by their total commercial success can...
AND
...how many cases are possibles. may be that the developer is an only child who was used to be the center of the world, maybe he's just self-centered...maybe he's just drunk...
You cannot determine why someone hijacks every thread...And I'm sure you don't really want to know why he get nuts...
Life it's just like that...you have to deal with the others...
hibidy - Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:44 am
I'm obviously (and thankfully) missing something. I don't see that. Is it more geared at instruments (which I'm not in as much? ) Other than some potentially spammy-ish stuff (which I don't even complain about anymore) I just don't see this. I have 30000 f**king posts. I'm here all the time.
braj - Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:44 am
wiwatti wrote:
maybe he's just drunk
That explains everything!
braj - Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:45 am
hibidy wrote:
I'm obviously (and thankfully) missing something. I don't see that. Is it more geared at instruments (which I'm not in as much? ) Other than some potentially spammy-ish stuff (which I don't even complain about anymore) I just don't see this. I have 30000 f**king posts. I'm here all the time.
It's because you are always drunk
hibidy - Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:55 am
braj wrote:
hibidy wrote:
I'm obviously (and thankfully) missing something. I don't see that. Is it more geared at instruments (which I'm not in as much? ) Other than some potentially spammy-ish stuff (which I don't even complain about anymore) I just don't see this. I have 30000 f**king posts. I'm here all the time.
It's because you are always drunk
why you!!!!
Lotuzia - Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:37 pm
michi_mak wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:
...for your information, I'm not a Xils employee...
sounds the opposite of
Lotuzia wrote:
...As for the intro price, well we received a lot of demands to extend the intro price because people were either on holydays and could not get it or try the demo, either were a bit broke for a few of them. We choose the 5th September because we thought that everybody will be back from holydays at that time, so it seemed to be fair...
doesn't it ???
Just ask and I will answer.
I collaborate with Xils from sound design to the creation of specific modules, and also GUI and UI concepts. And I'm deeply involved in the development of some of the instruments. I collaborate also with many other companies, but no one as closely as Xils.
I help Xils to communicate on forums and to answer users questions on my free time.
So believe it, or not, I'm not a xils employee and if I say "we", its because its much easier for people than explaining all that in each post and I have the autorisation to do so by the Xils staff. (ie representing this company on some forum, but I do it pro bono because I love these instruments ( and eventually you can say I'm biased about that, but I believe a lot of people involved into the creation of instruments feel the same, be them freeware or commercial ; You dont go that road, wich is sometimes a bit hard, to offer instruments to musicians if you dont have a certain passion for that )
I admit however that the situation could easily make people think this.
So this is just a bit of information.
HcDoom - Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:48 pm
Ok, but don't spam 1 millions threads with your products and don't hijack like there is no tomorrow. I check a synth thread which has nothting to do with Xils or Georges synths and than I see post like: Corona or Oxium can do that...and even more...Who cares? You have your own thread for your own product, write there.
I think some rules should be applied for everyone here.
Jace-BeOS - Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:51 pm
Tricky-Loops wrote:
Since Ernest is banned, it's getting much more boring here... His posts at least had an entertaining character...
Because we don't know anything if the other developers have pretty daughters, too...
Because we don't know anything if the other developers have pretty daughters, too...
Hah, I must have missed the thread where that happened. What was the last straw?
kv331 - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:01 pm
michi_mak wrote:
you could add some others too ( i'd vote for ik and synthmaster dev )
)Duh! You have serious issues dude. [mod edit]? Stop harrasing me!
When was the last time I "hijacked" a thread smart guy just show us, you seem to be keeping logs of me!
For the record, I wrote in some threads in the past to show folks what my plugin can do, but thank God I dont have to do that anymore because the entire world already realized what my plugin can do...
jupiter8 - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:10 pm
Finally we're getting somewhere.
Tricky-Loops - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:12 pm
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:
Since Ernest is banned, it's getting much more boring here... His posts at least had an entertaining character...
Because we don't know anything if the other developers have pretty daughters, too...
Because we don't know anything if the other developers have pretty daughters, too...
Hah, I must have missed the thread where that happened. What was the last straw?
As one of the last acts he hijacked a thread with the subject "Good harmonizers" from someone else and posted his strange business (codesharing) ideas of his "Harmonic Delay" that wasn't even developed yet. So I (and some other guys) wrote he should create an own appropriate thread for that, and some hours later the whole thread was deleted by an admin (maybe Ernest had posted something barefaced as he did several times). And some other threads of him were also locked or deleted, I don't think because of his nice daughter...
I never have stopped anyone at KVR but I felt that Ernest would be ready to scam other people. I can't compare DiscoDSP, Xils, U-he or Synthmaster with this case - they have REAL products to offer, and if their products can do what the thread title implies, why they shouldn't mention their own product?
hibidy - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:12 pm
n/m, I'll get in trouble (even though I'm right)
kv331 - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:14 pm
hibidy wrote:
n/m, I'll get in trouble (even though I'm right)
I am glad other folks realized this as well
Jace-BeOS - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:17 pm
I'm not really seeing it either, but I have to admit I spend more time on social threads than technical threads and "help me choose" threads. I just looked now at the commercial threads in the "current topics" and, though there are several, they seem to be in dedicated forums.
kv331 - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:19 pm
HcDoom wrote:
Yes, those IK ones are like in every thread. Synthmaster dev can also go ''opposite'' way most of the time.
Excuse me??? My product already speaks for itself, go read the professional reviews on international magazines!
hibidy - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:22 pm
EDIT (yeah, like that was going to happen.......)
Tricky-Loops - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:22 pm
kv331 wrote:
michi_mak wrote:
you could add some others too ( i'd vote for ik and synthmaster dev )
)Duh! You have serious issues dude. [MOD EDIT]
When was the last time I "hijacked" a thread smart guy just show us, you seem to be keeping logs of me!
For the record, I wrote in some threads in the past to show folks what my plugin can do, but thank God I dont have to do that anymore because the entire world already realized what my plugin can do...
Ma'shallah...
I have never seen any thread that were hijacked by you nor did I see any posts by you that were completely off-topic. So I have to praise you with a big "Inshallah!"...
IncarnateX - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:30 pm
Be grand guys. The devs have a desparate need for money to be alive and make wonderful VSTis for us all. Sometimes they even give us lovely freeware. It is not an easy business, lots of competition and a hard way to make a living. Let them spam if they want to, just think that it might even end up with a freebie if they survive. And just think how many of our own posts actually are mindless shit, trolling or arguing for the sake of arguing. At least their spam can be informative with regard to the possibilities of their products, while we just fill thread after thread with piles of useless crap. Lets not be petty but grateful that they actually are mad enough to believe in their products and not at least be patient with us when we overwhelm them with contradictory user requests, whinings or questions that could have been solved easily if we had arsed ourselves to read their faqs or manuals.
I say hail the devs
Anonymous - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:34 pm
DELETED
Tricky-Loops - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:35 pm
Jace-BeOS wrote:
I'm not really seeing it either, but I have to admit I spend more time on social threads than technical threads and "help me choose" threads. I just looked now at the commercial threads in the "current topics" and, though there are several, they seem to be in dedicated forums.
If something is deleted, you cannot see it any more, sorry. And most of the really barefaced posts by Ernest have been deleted...
BTW, I'm in no way nasty, but if I see someone fooling other people, I have to react.
AstralExistence - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:36 pm
yes, but, it is called kvr 'vst' and who develops the vsts? im so glad you asked, why little monkeys with little computers of course!
braj - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:39 pm
IncarnateX wrote:
Be grand guys. The devs have a desparate need for money to be alive and make wonderful VSTis for us all. Sometimes they even give us lovely freeware. It is not an easy business, lots of competition and a hard way to make a living. Let them spam if they want to, just think that it might even end up with a freebie if they survive. And just think how many of our own posts actually are mindless shit, trolling or arguing for the sake of arguing. At least their spam can be informative with regard to the possibilities of their products, while we just fill thread after thread with piles of useless crap. Lets not be petty but grateful that they actually are mad enough to believe in their products and not at least be patient with us when we overwhelm them with contradictory user requests, whinings or questions that could have been solved easily if we had arsed ourselves to read their faqs or manuals.
I say hail the devs
I say hail the devs
You could also consider that they take the feedback seriously and cut their spam to some degree. Everyone could do with being less petty and more grateful, including the developers who are asking us to consider their products.
hibidy - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:40 pm
I'll edit my useless other post
Lotuzia - Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:46 pm
IncarnateX wrote:
........... At least their spam can be informative with regard to the possibilities of their products, while we just fill thread after thread with piles of useless crap. Lets not be petty but grateful that they actually are mad enough to believe in their products and not at least be patient with us when we overwhelm them with contradictory user requests, whinings or questions that could have been solved easily if we had arsed ourselves to read their faqs or manuals.
I say hail the devs
I say hail the devs
What can I add : This one made my day
bluedad - Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:43 pm
michi_mak wrote:
Tricky-Loops wrote:
kv331 wrote:
michi_mak wrote:
you could add some others too ( i'd vote for ik and synthmaster dev )
)Duh! You have serious issues dude. [MOD EDIT] ? Stop harrasing me!
When was the last time I "hijacked" a thread smart guy just show us, you seem to be keeping logs of me!
For the record, I wrote in some threads in the past to show folks what my plugin can do, but thank God I dont have to do that anymore because the entire world already realized what my plugin can do...
Ma'shallah...
I have never seen any thread that were hijacked by you nor did I see any posts by you that were completely off-topic. So I have to praise you with a big "Inshallah!"...
Bulent dude with all due respect BUT calling me by my full name and calling me a racist is a little bit off, don't you think?
I agree; using the full name was uncalled for. Playing the racist card when there was absolutely no hint of racism was also uncalled for.
Let's keep this thread clean and be respectful even if you disagree.
thanks
trimph1 - Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:53 pm
kv331 wrote:
HcDoom wrote:
Yes, those IK ones are like in every thread. Synthmaster dev can also go ''opposite'' way most of the time.
Excuse me??? My product already speaks for itself, go read the professional reviews on international magazines!
Eh? Hc...where is your head at?
I've never seen kv331 'spam' threads .....
A.M. Gold - Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:03 pm
I don't think this argument, or racist confrontation, or whatever it is, is about the spirit of what the "active" developer-posters do, but more the context.
As I said, there is only one developer who I've seen really act heavy handed and almost like they are using some kind of saturation technique, and I've seen them being confronted on it multiple times.
But let's look at the broader question. George doesn't saturate, and he makes his little product-plug asides in threads quick and to the point. He's not obnoxious at all, but one reason why he can do that is because the vast majority of other developers who have products listed here don't do it. Most not usually, and many not ever.
If even half of them started doing it on a regular basis, it would be a (free) developer self-promotion train wreck on this forum. I suspect that will never happen, so people like Lotuzia and George can continue to do it. I don't have a problem with that, but others think in terms of the broader principle and ask "is this public forum, where people come to discuss software music making, really the right place to insert free developer advertising whenever and wherever some developers choose?"
trimph1 - Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:18 pm
mmmm...maybe have two completely separate forums? One for developers and what they are producing and another for the rest of us? And neither the twain shall meet?
I dunno..I just find this whole thing to be rather odd. To say, for example, that someone is looking for an EQ does this then mean that the fellow looking is going to be inundated with every kind of 'unpaid advertising' under the sun? He wanted info did he not? Ampsims anyone? Same thing...get all kinds of information. Even if it is from....THEM.
Lotuzia - Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:21 pm
Well a lot of regular users do that too. They praise their favorite synth in every thread they see. And sometimes in a less related manner to the subject of the thread than a carefull dev will do.
I understand your point but if someone looks for say a VA synthesiser, I cant see why the developer of a VA synth could not just say " you might want to try this one", and the same if a certain feature is asked/required like " synths with all parameters controllable with midi CC control", I cant see why a dev could not mention one of his synths capable to do this, when all other forum members feel free to post their choices.
Because it is what happens actually, what a few people see as spam is simply just answering to certain precise demands ...
So should the devs have less rights than the regular user ? Someone asked the same rules for everybody a few posts above. I fully agree with this. A developer voice has the same weight/value than a regular user's one in such posts. ( or eventually less as people noticed that we tend to be rather biased with our own instruments, for good reasons : Passion
)
My 0.002
LtZ
trimph1 - Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:28 pm
That is just it. Show a little bit of enthusiasm for your creation and suddenly you are seen as spamming a thread? Eh?
I don't get it. Why should you refrain from suggesting something you created?
Especially on threads that are ASKING about VA instruments for pete sakes.
Tricky-Loops - Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:34 pm
If someone makes a thread called "Good bass synths" then he/she has to take into account that some developers will praise their own products, too. And there's nothing wicked about it. If the synth really can create a good bass, it's worth the post - if recommended by the developer or by an independent musician, that's totally irrelevant...
hibidy - Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:43 pm
I dunno. I've never understood why some people act the way they do. Or why the coffee dispenser at the auto mall NEVER gets it right. It's baffling.
Sendy - Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:56 pm
IncarnateX wrote:
And just think how many of our own posts actually are mindless shit, trolling or arguing for the sake of arguing. At least their spam can be informative
Speak for yourself
braj - Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:05 pm
I think it would be great if you could just hide topics you don't want to see or people you don't wish to hear from. Muting is there but you still see that the person posted, or the topics they created. I think that would go a long way towards curbing conflicts in the forums.
stillshaded - Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:33 pm
muting threads would be handy.
A.M. Gold - Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:35 pm
Enthusiasm with a chance to directly make money behind it is in a different category than user enthusiasm. I'm sorry, it just is. That seems very clear to me and I'm not sure why there should be an air of mystery around it.
One might also say the same thing about reviews of products that are written by people who sell the products. They have these kinds of "reviews" in the Musician's Friend catalog (or they did for a while), and of course they are viewed with a grain of salt by some.
It's also a different thing to come into a general discussion of a certain type of instrument or effect and tout the particular version of that product which you happen to make and profit off of vs. simply getting involved in a thread someone else started about your product. The latter would never be considered spamming, no matter how enthusiastic you are, the former could be considered spamming by some.
hibidy - Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:37 pm
Nope. It doesn't work. The reaper forum is proof of that. You have unlimited mutes and and unsubscribe from threads. It does a little bit of good, but it's not really a deal.
Best thing? Walk away from the chalupa. Every time you whack a mole, another comes up. It's an endless game. Mutes are only good for the biggy offenders (and even then people peek
) vurt - Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:37 pm
braj wrote:
I think it would be great if you could just hide topics you don't want to see or people you don't wish to hear from. Muting is there but you still see that the person posted, or the topics they created. I think that would go a long way towards curbing conflicts in the forums.
id tell you about the script i wrote which removes threads that use any key words i input, but i might be accused of spamming...
hibidy - Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:39 pm
Plenty of examples in this thread of why mutes don't work
braj - Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:41 pm
I'm thinking more how Facebook works, you just don't see it, it would be blocked. Have It would also help the developers who would rather not have some people posting in their threads.
A.M. Gold - Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:47 pm
braj wrote:
I'm thinking more how Facebook works, you just don't see it, it would be blocked. Have It would also help the developers who would rather not have some people posting in their threads.
Yea, it worked real well for the Heaven'swhatever guy. Except he would have had about two people posting in his threads, maybe not even that.
whyterabbyt - Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:39 am
My basic assumption would be that people are generally soliciting opinion on products from their peers, not from the marketing department of the product makers.
So a suggestion :
If the OP of a 'which plugin?' type thread does want to solicit opinions direct from the devs as well as his peers, then they 'opt in' by flagging the thread somehow (eg a [DEV] flag in the subject). I think it makes more sense to make the default opt-out rather than opt-in, though.
At the very least, if someone is asking for a 'what synth' opinion, and says 'no developers' when they do, devs should be made to respect that.(*)
Make that standard behaviour here, make it part of the rules, and uncle's yer robert...
(*) Note that Im not talking about devs not being able to reply to criticism, or whatever. I specifically mean not suggesting their own products as per this thread.
V0RT3X - Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:42 am
hibidy wrote:
I dunno. I've never understood why some people act the way they do. Or why the coffee dispenser at the auto mall NEVER gets it right. It's baffling.
Its because your relying on digital technology for the coffee. For the best flavour you need to use analog equipment.
aMUSEd - Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:45 am
I don't know, my basic assumption is when people ask a question like that is they are asking the community (I know I am when I do that) and I have always seen the KvR community as including devs, indeed that was always one of its strengths and attractions. It seems to be getting a bit "us and them" ish at the moment and I'm not sure starting "dev keep out" type threads would help that, particularly since the dividing line is often not that clear cut anyway (which is a good thing).
trimph1 - Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:50 am
Sean did raise an interesting idea though. If someone wanted opinions on some sorts of instruments or such it could be done using an opt-in kind of situation. If you wanted to include devs then you could say such...
Of course, if it is one of those..."what is the best emulation.." types of threads...all bets are off...
Gamma-UT - Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:59 am
aMUSEd wrote:
I don't know, my basic assumption is when people ask a question like that is they are asking the community (I know I am when I do that) and I have always seen the KvR community as including devs, indeed that was always one of its strengths and attractions. It seems to be getting a bit "us and them" ish at the moment and I'm not sure starting "dev keep out" type threads would help that, particularly since the dividing line is often not that clear cut anyway (which is a good thing).
I agree. It goes against the spirit of any social media that you exclude a particular community, it also creates a boatload of work for the mods to enforce and you will have situations where devs (well OK, one probably just one dev) revert back to being "just a sound designer with no formal ties" just for the purposes of doing more promotion.
The vast majority of devs stay out or provide useful opinions. There are just a few that have decided to go the other way and an even smaller number who throw their dolly out of the pram when you suggest that they might like to rein it in a bit (like the classic "you're muted" I got from one until I pointed out that, up to that point, I'd bought everything they sold - oddly enough, I haven't bought much off them since).
Making rules to address a very small minority doesn't sound like a great idea. Perhaps a quiet word from a friend might help out the ones who are poisoning their own reputation and bring the temperature down a little.
Sendy - Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:09 am
Gamma-UT wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:
I don't know, my basic assumption is when people ask a question like that is they are asking the community (I know I am when I do that) and I have always seen the KvR community as including devs, indeed that was always one of its strengths and attractions. It seems to be getting a bit "us and them" ish at the moment and I'm not sure starting "dev keep out" type threads would help that, particularly since the dividing line is often not that clear cut anyway (which is a good thing).
I agree. It goes against the spirit of any social media that you exclude a particular community, it also creates a boatload of work for the mods to enforce and you will have situations where devs (well OK, one probably just one dev) revert back to being "just a sound designer with no formal ties" just for the purposes of doing more promotion.
The vast majority of devs stay out or provide useful opinions. There are just a few that have decided to go the other way and an even smaller number who throw their dolly out of the pram when you suggest that they might like to rein it in a bit (like the classic "you're muted" I got from one until I pointed out that, up to that point, I'd bought everything they sold - oddly enough, I haven't bought much off them since).
Making rules to address a very small minority doesn't sound like a great idea. Perhaps a quiet word from a friend might help out the ones who are poisoning their own reputation and bring the temperature down a little.
+1
KVR doesn't need more rules. Nor does it need more segregation or over-reactions.
But the poisoning IS happening. Some people just don't know when they're being helped.
IncarnateX - Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:10 am
whyterabbyt wrote:
If the OP of a 'which plugin?' type thread does want to solicit opinions direct from the devs as well as his peers, then they 'opt in' by flagging the thread somehow (eg a [DEV] flag in the subject).
Sorry but ain't that solution a little bit too obvious and simple for KVR?
Just wonder
kx.001 - Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:14 am
IncarnateX wrote:
whyterabbyt wrote:
If the OP of a 'which plugin?' type thread does want to solicit opinions direct from the devs as well as his peers, then they 'opt in' by flagging the thread somehow (eg a [DEV] flag in the subject).
Sorry but ain't that solution a little bit too obvious and simple for KVR?
Just wonder
What, having an open forum where its presumed some of the members aren't allowed to contribute? Seems to go a bit against the ethos of KVR; having users and developers in close proximity.
The other way round, maybe - you can easily specify you want users opinions...
whyterabbyt - Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:58 am
kx.001 wrote:
WThe other way round, maybe - you can easily specify you want users opinions...
The rationale for me suggesting making it default-deny is that many (the majority?) of the people who ask these sort of questions are newcomers who wont know if someone is a developer and not an 'ordinary' user.
There's a different solution to that aspect of it, of course, but I can imagine it would be too much work for Ben to be interested (ie making developer ties explicit in the side-of-post profile.)