KVR :: MUTOOLS » MuLab 5.0.31 Test [View Original Topic]
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mutools - Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:47 pm

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A MuLab 5 test version is available in http://www.mutools.com/mulab/everest

OSX version is almost ready too and coming asap one of the days.

For preliminary info about MuLab 5 see http://www.mutools.com/m5-info.html

If you have suggestions about finetuning MuLab 5, please post them here or email me.

Cheers!

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robenestobenz - Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:03 pm

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Sounds like a fantastic mix of major features and workflow improvements! I'm well excited.

/mulab/everest, heh. Was that how it felt?

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retronoodle - Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:24 pm

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I can imagine that IS how it felt! I'm downloading now

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McPanic - Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:54 pm

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Hi there,

I've just played a little around with the new MuLab 5 and here are my first impressions:

WOW, Multi Core Support works great
Tracks that were hitting the CPU limit are now playing smooth and without any problems.

But it said my M4-UL license key is invalid. I inserted it again, with the same result. I'm sure this will be fixed or there will be a way to convert the M4-UL license into a M5 license.

I've not run into any other problems but I've not tested that many features.

Greetings
McPanic

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sorohanro - Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:03 pm

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WOW !!! I have to try it

@McPanic - usually when the version is officially launched you will get a new serial for the new version.

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sorohanro - Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:42 pm

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Ok, tried it, some of the features are really really cool, the new look is better and the multicore is a step forward.

It loads much faster BIG Kontakt libraries that used to load in 10-15 minutes. Now those load in less than 2 minutes (Soniccoture Deconstructed EP).

The only problem I got for now is that Twisted Lemon Sidekick doesn't register as a valid plugin. I got that so I could specifically use a very versatile side-chain in MuLab 4 and worked perfectly for now.
I wonder why it's not working in version 5...

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mutools - Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:24 pm

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MuLab 5 indeed uses a new user key format. The new M5 user keys will be distributed asap, though it might take a couple of days.

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mutools - Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:27 pm

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Strange, i don't understand. Anyway, i assume that's good.



I can't access their website, it gives a "Unable to connect" error.

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jazzdoktorn - Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:56 am

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When i tried this i just realized that i saved the around 1700 euros that i have budgeted for a new computer.
Now im going to buy my wife a nice gift instead.

Thanks for this Jo.
Merry Christmas.

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AndreasD - Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:18 am

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I downloaded and checked it out. Works without any problem here (version 4.3).

Cheers

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sl23 - Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:55 am

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I like the new sidebar. But is there a quick way to hide/show it? Preferably with a button rather than Hotkey.

Also, is it a simple case of copying M4 User folder to M5 to keep settings etc?

A minor thing, not sure if others feel same way, but be nice to have a 'Hover state' on buttons? I like the 'colour' scheme though, very Android!

Thanks Jo you've done a great job

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sorohanro - Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:59 am

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That's very good
It's an instrument with 3 mic positions. about 8 round robins and some insane amount of dynamic layers. In M4 or FL Studio was almost impossible to use, but in M5 works just fine.


Strange, I just clicked the link and works fine here.



Yep, exactly that's my problem, works fine in M4, doesn't register as a valid plugin in M5.

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mutools - Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:04 am

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Strange now i can access that website. Must have been a temporary inet hickup somewhere. The plug is working fine on Andreas' system, can you please double-check. I also can't think of a reason why vst plugs would work in M4 but not in M5.

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mutools - Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:06 am

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Oops, we had crossed posts. Anyway, i think Andreas meant version 4.3 of the plug, plugged in M5. Right Andreas?

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sl23 - Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:19 am

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Small issue with sound. I tried copying the User folder of M4 to M5 just to try it out, everything seems ok. But I loaded a session with nothing more than a drum pattern, it played fine til I clicked on an empty slot in Rack 4 then it distorted any sound played from other Racks. After a while it stopped. I checked the MuX's settings in other Racks but nothing obvious was wrong.

Could it be where I copied the User folder over, causing incompatibility somewhere?

EDIT: After leaving it running for some time, around 10-15 mins, the distorted sound returned and went back to normal after another 10-15 mins. Btw, not had this problem with M4.5.1.

M5 Test 32bit
Win 7 HP 64
4GB Ram



FR's:
1. MuX - when selecting 'Transparent' for a Knob, perhaps a 'Left Align' for the text should be added too? This would allow a more compact Front Panel.
2. Browser - change the 'Docking' to allow choice of full window height, and to allow docking elsewhere in the window.

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sorohanro - Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:44 am

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Well, in that case I can't really understand.
In M4 works fine, in M5 I constantly have this "invalid VST plugin" message.
I tried to delete all VSTs from M5 list, re-installed the plugin, restarted the computer. It just doesn't want to work.
In M4 works every time I open it.



Well, actually I don't have to switch right now from and you need a little rest, so, don't worry about that, have some happy and peaceful holidays

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AndreasD - Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:45 am

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Correct! Mulab 5 with Sidekick v4.3 works fine here

Andreas

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AndreasD - Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:51 am

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Scott, can you try and set the number of audio processing threads in the audio setup to the number of real core of your cpu! Don't count any hyperthreading cores.

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sl23 - Sun Dec 23, 2012 4:16 am

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Ok, done that will wait to see if it helps. Thanks for tip So, aren't HTC's counted as cores then? Or is it just because this is a work in progress? I did have it set to Auto(4) but changed it to 2.

EDIT: It seems to have worked, been playing for around 20 mins with no distortion. How did you know it was the HTC's?

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sl23 - Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:28 am

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FR: I love the new Mini Parameter's, makes so much difference. But one minor 'complaint' is that when you group them together, it makes it more confusing to see. Would be nicer to be able to add ability to create groups with z-plane order. ie, place on top, underneath, etc. That way you could create a group of buttons with transparent 'borders' and have several within a main group.

So for the Oscillator Group could contain another Group for all Osc Knobs/Buttons and another Group for Balance/LFO or however you want to do it.

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McPanic - Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:33 am

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After some testing I've found a small inconvenience.

The big green button in the top bar of instrument/effect windows doesn't light up correctly if the instrument/effect is an external VST plugin. One can still click that button to switch the processing of the specific VST on/off, but it doesn't reflect the status properly. Seen while using reaeq-standalone as an insert effect in a rack.
(I'm also trying to automate this on/off switch. Any ideas?)

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mutools - Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:04 am

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Taking a bit more rest will be for after M5 release.

I've downloaded the plugin and it scans fine here too.
Are you using the 32 bit or 64 bit MuLab?
When you scan that plugin then what does the scan log window tells?
There should be some info there.
You could email me a print screen of that scan log window.

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mutools - Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:08 am

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That button LED has 3 states: Off (dark grey), Bypassed (darker green), Active (light green). The 'Smart Bypass' state is an automatic state where the VST plugin will not consume CPU when it is not necessary i.e. when it does not have any input or output. You can control the Smart Bypass via the VST plugin's context menu. Mmm, thinking loud now: I guess 'Auto Bypass' would be a better name for that feature.



It's not automatable.

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sorohanro - Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:32 am

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Tried in 32 bit, because that's what the plugin require and most of my plugins are 32 bit, but after that didn't work I tried unsuccessfully also the 64 bit.
Tried to reinstall plugin, MuLab, run as admin, copy the "user" folder from M4, dropp the dll, add it as VST... and weirdly, now that I moved the M5 to another haed disk, it works...

So, end of story, after messing with me all day long, apparently is working without me doing anything to it... weird...

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mutools - Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:18 am

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So when M5 is on the same disk as M4 it works? If so maybe it's something with Windows' UAC?

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sorohanro - Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:19 am

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I have no idea what is UAC but Windows 7 has many things against users, so, maybe...

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liquidsound - Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:24 am

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Fantastic Upgrade

My first question is how to save a MuClip.
For the life of me I can't figure it out

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mutools - Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:34 am

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Two ways:

* Drop a sequence part on the browser while the browser's What = MuClips.

* Right-click a sequence part -> Part -> Presets -> Save Preset (As)

Note that when you right-click a sequence part you also have the option Sequence -> Presets -> Save Preset (As) which will only save the sequence without the sound.

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liquidsound - Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:52 am

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OK.
I was dragging into the App MuClip pool and that didn't work.
Also I was expecting to see somewhere Save MuClip rather than Preset and that could be a little confusing.
Great feature.

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mutools - Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:57 am

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Because the factory folder is protected. Otherwise there could be practical problems when updating your MuLab install.



The "Presets" mecanism has been more generalized with M5, which is a good thing imho.

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liquidsound - Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:09 am

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Understandable.
The Docs will keep the confusion down

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sorohanro - Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:21 am

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The new synth presets are fantastic. I tried the basses and love the additions

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mutools - Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:29 am

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Can you explain me what's confusing about it?

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liquidsound - Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:38 am

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Sure.
A preset is usually associated with a VST or VSTi while a Clip ( Seq Part + VST + VST Preset) makes more sense to be saved as MuClip.
It may be confusing the first time, but after that, like I said, the issue is solved.
I understand the mechanism but this is just a menu label.

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> DiGiT < - Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:09 am

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ooh nice one. i agree.

you should be able to drag and drop a muclip to the mux and have it there ready to trigger like some silly easy kurzweil patch with all automation and effects at the go. ready for a timeline. now thats some power.

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AndreasD - Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:43 am

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I might misunderstand, but you can have a sequence in a MUX now. And if you limit the keyrange properly, you can have a 'demo seq' running when pressing e.g. C7 and normal play otherwise.

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pquenin - Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:37 pm

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I have downloaded M5 and played with it a little.
I have a Pentium 4 with Hyperthreading and see no difference with M4 (I have compared the CPU load with the demo songs).
On the "Pure" demo song, the CPU meter have gone to 1915 % !!!
It's time for me to change my computer.

The browser and the MuClips are good additions...

I wonder why the Midi CC automation don't use the curve system ???

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mutools - Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:06 pm

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About the MuLab 5 user keys: Users who bought a MuLab 4 UL user license and already want their MuLab 5 UL user key, email me

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hibidy - Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:56 pm

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I don't need another host, but this is terrific. Wow, good times for us now again!

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audiobot202 - Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:17 am

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Emailed

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leggie - Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:36 am

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I thought the same.

Amazed I had not heard of it until now Think I have found my xmas prezzie to myself

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robenestobenz - Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:10 am

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<edit -- i was being stupid>

When project audio files aren't found, would it be possible to automatically check if an audio subfolder exists in the MuSession folder and search for the audio files if it does? I've just reorganised my music drive's folder structure, and even though I've moved both the Musession and ..\Audio folders, MuLab asks me to search for the files.

Also, little FR for being able to dock the browser to the left rather than the right. Force of habit from years of Windows explorer I guess!

Liking the new dialog and button graphics btw, looks much more polished.

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retronoodle - Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:17 pm

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It works great for me! Excellent work! I played around with it for several hours and didn't run into any issues.

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mutools - Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:40 pm

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When the audio files were in the same folder as the musession or in a subfolder to the musession folder at the moment you saved the musession, then the audio files should be saved with a relative file path to that musession folder and so you should be able to move them together without prob.

Are you sure that was the case at the moment you saved the musession?
And with which MuLab version did you save that session? FYI: this relative file path management appeared in MuLab 3.2.3.

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EvilDragon - Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:40 am

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Logical Editor:

Mode - Select
Time - Any
Type - Equal - Parameter
Changing "Value 1" from "Any" to any other option here crashes MuLab. This is with a newly created project or any demo project.

This does NOT happen if you first selected some other Type and Value. But if you then change Type to Parameter, and change Value 1 to "Any", then to any other option, crash again.


Also when using Inside/Outside for Parameter or Controller, there's no dropdown arrow available because the strips are too wide and Logical Editor window cannot be resized:





On the subject of Logical selector - wouldn't it be better if pitch bend would be shown as 14-bit range, either as unipolar (0 to 16383 with 8192 being center) or bipolar (-8191 to +8192)?

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EvilDragon - Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:11 am

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Can anyone confirm the above?

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pljones - Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:49 am

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Confirmed here. And about the 14bit parameters .

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mutools - Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:53 am

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Yes i can repeat the crash. Fixed in the next M5 test verion.



Fixed in the next M5 test verion.

Thanks for reporting.



Why?

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pljones - Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:03 am

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14bit MIDI controller values are usually described everywhere else (than MuLab) as integers either centred on zero or rising from zero. Having to convert to a float is difficult. One might equally have Note On Velocity running from 0.0 to 1.0... (It's fine to have the float for internal parameters.)

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mutools - Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:27 am

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But what's the added value of that in today's context? Where do you need to know whether a pitchbend value is 9876 or 9877? I think that a percent value (as that's what it's intended to be, to be tuned) is more user friendly, i.e. Pitchbend value "75% Up" is more user friendly than value "14335". No?

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pljones - Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:56 am

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Hm. I guess it's related to the pitch bend range... I'd forgotten they were related - I was thinking PB was directly in cents...

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EvilDragon - Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:09 am

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It's simply respecting the resolution and (more importantly) LEGACY of MIDI. Any other DAW works like this pretty much, and it's weird for me to see it like this here (and I presume I'm not the only one). You could use percentage I presume, but that would also lose the 14-bit resolution of it, making it harder to recalculate what you want to select with logical selector, at least IMO.


@pljones - Pitch Bend messages are not declared in cents by MIDI standard. The range 0-16383 gets scaled internally on the synthesizer according to the global pitch bend range parameter, which is an RPN message in fact.

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robenestobenz - Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:37 am

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Yeah, sorry, the files were from a few different places, including my samples folder and I c/p'd them all into the ../audio folder before re-organising my music drive. I expected MuLab to naturally search in that folder before prompting me to select them. Probably just an edge case, no worries.

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mutools - Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:46 pm

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Of course i would not be limited it to 201 values (-100 .. 100), the percentage value can have decimal digits (eg "73.854% Up"), so no prob about resolution.



Can you please provide a real practical argument? (sentence not meant in wrong way, just as an objective question)

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EvilDragon - Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:49 pm

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Dunno, I'm just used to seeing pitch bend as either -8192~8191 or 0-16383. It's easier to work with what you're used to, instead of converting those values to % or whatnot.

It's like that on my hardware workstation and in the other DAW I'm using (Reaper). And other DAWs for that matter (Cubase, Logic, Sonar...).


If there could be a toggle switch (somewhere in preferences?) that would enable showing MIDI data across whole MuLAB as 7/14-bit numbers instead of floats, that would probably be useful. But I understand it's not the simplest thing to implement, for backwards compatibility and other reasons, I presume.

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mutools - Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:52 pm

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I've added a note on the wishlist about adding a preference about this.

(edit: crossed posts, we had the same idea, cheers!)

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pquenin - Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:12 pm

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In Mulab 5, there is this new browser... It has a button for the VST Synths and another for the VST Effects. Maybe there must be a button for the VST midi Fx (arpeggiators and so on...) but perhaps it's not easy to detect these plugins ?

When I choose the "All files" button, the list is empty, why ?

And a bug : I have some VST plugins in the browser. I select one, right click and chosse "delete" : nothing happens. I right click again, choose "delete" : Mulab crashes !

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EvilDragon - Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:55 pm

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Awesome, thanks!



By the way - it would be great if the browser being docked is a global preference (for all projects).

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sl23 - Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:10 pm

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+1

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:22 am

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There is an updated MuLab 5.0.27 test version in http://www.mutools.com/mulab/everest

What's changed since M5.0.26:

• M5 for OSX.
  
• Drag-drop sequence parts on the browser when browser shows sequences => dropped sequence parts are saved as MuSequence presets (not as MuClips).
  
• Finetuned the very default file selector location when saving a preset file.
  
• Fixed a prob when reading MUX presets that were made with MUX Vst.
  
• Fixed an issue in the module popup list: It was showing some redundant and double entries.
  
• When loading a session or preset with a VST plugin that is not found, the "Locate" dialog kept on popping up even when selecting the proper VST plugin. Fixed.
  
• Fixed an issue with the "Delete Unuseds" functions in the browser.
  
• Fixed a bug in MuLab's ReWire engine.
  
• Fixed a bug that could cause crashes in the logical selector and event list editor.
  
• Fixed an issue in the logical selector where not all criteria fields were fully visible.
  

If you have already installed M5.0.26 then you can apply the exe update. Be sure to also update the ID file, otherwise MuLab will run in MuLab Free mode.

Looking forward to your feedback.

Cheers!

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leggie - Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:56 am

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Fixed now

Muclips, Very powerful feature

Also as Andreas asked when he was helping me, does the dragged Muclip end up in the session MUX by design ?

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sl23 - Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:58 am

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What's the ID file for? I tried updating just the exe and it hasn't reverted to free mode, still have UL and my name on start screen.

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Trancit - Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:46 am

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Bug:

Drag some MuClips from the user library...

Start to delete sequences from the browsers sequence tab...
Sooner or later (for me mostly after 2 deleted clips) Mulab crashes...

Wasn't able to reproduce this with clips from the factory library though

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robenestobenz - Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:03 am

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Right, I've been using M5 quite a bit for the past few days. Not that anyone asked, but here are my thoughts.

Cool stuff:

- Multicore threading is working like a dream. It's so good to have a fresh boost of power on my old dual core 2007 notebook. On my main PC, it's even better -- it's an old Q6600 quad core, so I'm getting huge gains. The GUI is more jerky/unresponsive than V4/3 on the notebook, however. Not a big deal -- audio is of course the highest priority, but I thought it's best to report..

- I'm liking the reduction in pop-up traffic. I also noticed some pop-ups appear in a non-modal way and then disappear automatically. Nice solution to conveying information without interrupting the user.

- Browser is really sweet, I love the quick filter buttons, great idea. Dragging back to the browser to save a preset for muclips and rack presets is a wonderful bit of workflow design as well.

- Has the Mux autolayout algorithm been changed or is it just me? The session mux for the new projects I've created in 5 seem so tidy!

- MuClips are a fantastic convenience.

- Curve types for automation, the waveform types are absolutely awesome. I already know I'll be using these a lot!

Improvements (in my opinion):

- In the shortcuts list, I think the increase grid / decrease grid wording gives the opposite impression of the functions at the moment. Increase/decrease grid detail or Increase/decrease grid resolution would both be a better fit.

- Could there be a convert part automation to curves feature (or could it just record as curves)? Having automation handled in two different ways seems unecessary to me, and counter to the principle of the MuClip system, since I notice that merge selected sequence parts with a note and automation part doesn't work (parameter automation in note part is empty after merge).

- With the virtual keyboard, I think it'd be useful to have a drag control (or +/- buttons) beside the note row that would allow you to move all notes a step up or down simultaneously. Think I requested it for M3 as well, but here's a cheeky repeat

- I think it'd be useful if the user's favourite folders were included in the "Where" dropdown -- selecting a favourite folder is 6 clicks and multiple windows away! The browser presets are a fairly convenient workaround, but it's still a bit of housekeeping to keep them synced with your favourites.

- I think it'd be easier to quickly assemble kits if you could directly drag an audio file/preset directly onto MuDrum pads and have it loaded into element 1.

Bugs:

The list editor appears to have the wrong context menu popping up. First off all, it has the part options, such as choose grid size etc, then, If you select delete from this menu rather than the list editor form's delete button, it deletes the underlying part, not the MIDI event you selected.

- Power button, I dunno if it's something on my PC, but the plugin window processing on/off indicators appear don't appear to be working with external plugins. The indicator is always off, even while the module is playing, and it only momentarily flashes green when toggling it.

- If I minimize and then restore MuLab, the rack desk scrollbar expands to fill the entire area, or goes entirely empty, even when there's a load of off-screen racks. I have to minimize/expand the racks in order to get the scrollbar to reflect the actual space available again.

Also, is there some way I'm missing to quickly change the browser preview volume?

Really enjoying the update!

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:22 am

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Yes. The session MUX is like your studio, you see al your gear there, and the cables in between them.

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:25 am

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The ID file is a soft crack protection. If the exe is changed without updating the ID file, MuLab will internally reset to Free mode. No you don't see that in the splash, but you will hear the noise when crossing the MuLab Free bounds.

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:26 am

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I'll try to repeat this...

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DHR53 - Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:26 am

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Well, I'm glad to see 5 is out for the Mac, but oddly the midi startup bug is still in there for me? Ha! Must be my old keyboard driver or something with my system. I'm tempted to buy another midi keyboard to see, but Logic 9 works fine as always... Crazy.

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EvilDragon - Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:08 am

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I have a suggestion for MuLAB's context menus. I feel the "+" button for submenus is slowing me down way too much, especially since it doesn't remember the state (if it was expanded or not).

Why not use simple submenus like it's been the norm in Windows for decades? This could be a preference...

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:08 am

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Indeed, thanks for reporting!

It's a normal side effect of the MC engine. If you want a snappy UI then reduce the number of audio processing threads by 1 so that there always is 1 core left for the UI. So it's a balance you can choose for yourself.



No nothing changed there, as far as i remember. Does it look different from M4?



No it's the correct menu though it may contain some redundant items as these menus are generated in a generic way.

Note that that sequence part menu has 2 main groups: "Part" and "Sequence". For functions wrt the events look in the sequence group. Hope you see what i mean.



M5 has a "Smart Bypass" feature on VST plugins which means that if the VST plugin is not receiving any input nor generating any output the VST plugin is bypassed so it doesn't consume CPU. In that case the green power led will change to a darker green, indicating that the plug is still active but auto bypassed. This Smart Bypass feature can be controlled via the VST plugin's context menu -> Setup Smart Bypass. By default it's Off. Does this clarifies things?



I see, indeed something wrong there, will check & fix.

No. (not yet)

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andreasg - Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:13 am

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i have downloaded the MAC version today.. but its in demo mode (i have the full V4 Version)
what should i have to do to test the full V5 version?

thanks

Andreas

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:14 am

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I'm sorry i could not yet dive into that OSX MIDI specific thing. Simply didn't find the time yet, but i will investigate this further. Note that it only happens on certain OSX systems, it's OSX system specific. You don't need to buy another keyboard, i doubt whether it will make a difference, it's some quirk in OSX, imho, but at the same time i assume there is some way to bypass that. Hopefully i'll be able to R&D that bypass and deliver a solution in M5.x. Can't promise anything except that i will do my best.

How is the multi-core engine running on your OSX system? Very curious about that!

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sl23 - Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:18 am

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[BUGS]

I've been updating my Mux presets and removing some Meta-Parameters. I save the presets, close MuLab, restart MuLab and the Front Panel knobs revert back to the Meta-Parameters instead of the direct assignments to the knobs.

For example: I have Osc 1 Pitch knob preassigned to a MP in M4 so I could rename the knob. As M5 can rename knobs I no longer need the MP so delete all association to it even the name. I then open the Mux Osc Module and drag the Transpose knob to the Front Panel and rename it. I do this for all knobs requiring this change just to clean it up a bit. After saving and restarting MuLab it somehow reverts back to the presaved state?! How? I've done this with two presets 3 times each so it can't be me, can it?

I've mostly been using the Save Preset button, but on one occasion used Save Preset As... still didn't work.

Everything else saves except the changes to MP's.

I've also noticed an increase in the need to R-click. When I want to R-click very often nothing happens making me need to repeat it.

Also, when changing Mux Presets using the left and right arrows I keep getting the message 'Couldn't Load Preset File'

The Mux Menu has an option to reorder the Meta-Parameters. But when I opened this window I found no way to close. Tried R-click title bar. All you can do is move to top left.

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:27 am

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It's on the wishlist for some future version.

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:28 am

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Send me an email.

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:27 am

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I can't repeat this.

As an example: I just tweaked the Basic Synth preset so that the Amp Attack direcly connects to the Amp ADSR Attack Time instead of via meta-parm 1.
Saved it, loaded it, works as intended. Note that as long as the meta-parm is still pointing to that module parm, it will move accordingly eventhough the front panel parm knob links to the module parm directly. But as you wrote you also deleted the meta-parm assignments, this should not be relevant for you, as then the meta-parm will not follow anymore of course.

So i don't know what this is about. Can you please give me a step by step using a new session and the basic synth amp attack parameter?



I don't know what to say. Anyone else noticing something like this?



I can't repeat this using the first presets in the factory lib. Which presets?



I see. A consequence of the increased number of meta-parms. Will tune this.

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EvilDragon - Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:41 am

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You're awesome!

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robenestobenz - Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:11 pm

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Dunno, just seemed a bit more tidily laid out -- could just be the projects I've started in M5 have had less routing levels or something.
It still seems weird to me for most of the context menu options to have nothing to do with the thing the menu belongs to, but it's not a big deal -- I doubt many people use the context menus for deleting etc -- especially in the event list screen. I don't usually.
Sorry, that's not it. The power indicator is grey even while the VSTi is playing a note (or the VST is processing sound). When I first load a VST the power indicator is already grey actually. I haven't touched the Smart Bypass settings.

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sl23 - Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:15 pm

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Thanks for checking out those problems Jo.

After writing that report I started to reconstruct one of my presets starting from the basic synth. I copy/pasted modules from the old to new Mux and saved it but not the session. Now I can't load that preset. Would it help if I emailed the presets to you?

Re: Left + Right arrows. I was selecting the User Mux Library not the Factory one. So the presets are my own plus one other made by someone on the forum. Actually they are enhancements to presets Andreas started for me. He has checked them on this stage of completion and said they seem ok.

One thing though, I just remembered, being new to upgrading major versions, I didn't know about the menu option to update the Mux's. I loaded my two main presets and changed the front panel to smaller knobs and colours. Then found that option to upgrade presets. Which I then did. But all was ok. Even now they play ok as they're loaded into a session. But if I replace them I can't reload them due to M5 giving that message.

I'm going to try reinstalling MuLab. I only updated using the exe then later updated the ID file, could that have caused any issue?

Btw, I'm using the 32bit version. I have had about three crashes while editing these mux's though one of them wasn't used and still won't load. Could they have somehow been corrupted?

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pquenin - Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:13 pm

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I don't know if it's only me, but I have noticed that the loading of a preset is longer than before when you navigate with the arrow buttons

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sl23 - Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:22 pm

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Ok, further to my above message, I reinstalled the App Folder, exe and ID files. Still no luck.

I've also tried checking the same presets in M4 and there's no problem. I then copied those presets to M5 folder and still they won't load. It's gotta be something to do with M5?

I just thought, the crashes I mentioned were to do with certain VST's. I don't know if they're still in the list but unusable as I have several hundred I need to sort out what I want to keep. But could this be causing it? I'll try removing them all.

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:25 pm

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Yes please.

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:28 pm

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If the Num Audio Threads in the Audio Setup is set to Auto, then all available cores are used for audio processing and thus this might slow down the UI, which includes loading and saving of sessions, presets etc.

If you want you can set the Num Audio Threads to 1 less than the available cores, so keeping one free for the UI all the time.

Does that make a difference?

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sl23 - Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:36 pm

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Ok I've sent an email with the presets attached as zips. Let me know if there's anything you need to know.

Thanks Jo

I removed the VST settings file to see if that would help but still the same.

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pquenin - Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:17 pm

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I have just tested this and yes, it makes a difference, thanks...

And I re-post this, because the bug is still in 5.0.27 :

In Mulab 5, there is this new browser... It has a button for the VST Synths and another for the VST Effects. Maybe there must be a button for the VST midi Fx (arpeggiators and so on...) but perhaps it's not easy to detect these plugins ?

When I choose the "All files" button, the list is empty, why ?

And a bug : I have some VST plugins in the browser. I select one, right click and chosse "delete" : nothing happens. I right click again, choose "delete" : Mulab crashes !

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pljones - Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:31 pm

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Possible bug... 5.0.27 64bit Windows (exe+ID update from .26).

I opened the "Pure" demo and, as previously reported, is triggers the Free constraint soft noise. I then started a new session (in "This" session - i.e. "Pure" shouldn't have been around any more) and started using the Browser auto-preview on the included 8 MuClips. The soft noise still got triggered, even though there was nothing at all actually in the session and all I was doing was using the preview! I'm not sure, but it seem to need changing from one clip to another to trigger it (although that may be more to do with my just switching back and forth before the noise triggers...).

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pljones - Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:50 pm

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In other news... I used the global Process On/Off switch, then left MuLab alone for a while. I noticed my PC running slowly then switched to MuLab to see if it was running OK. Seemed fine until I went to check on the number of cores in use with the aim of freeing one up. At the point of "This will stop the audio engine", it froze completely, soaking up 75% CPU (across four cores). I had to kill it. I'll try to reproduce the error tomorrow.

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:49 pm

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It's showing the files on your system. When "Where" is not set, it hsould list the drives so you can start browsing. To be tuned. But you can already select a Where location, then it will show the files.



Thanks for reporting. Will be fixed.

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:51 pm

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It's not a bug. The activation / deactivation of the demo noise happens at a slow pace so when you have crossed the bounds of MuLab Free / XT but then return inside the bounds of MuLab Free / XT then it can take a couple of minutes before the noise disappears again. That's for reasons for making it more difficult to hack.

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:04 pm

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Found what you mean. Fixed in the next version. Thanks.

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mutools - Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:00 pm

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Please elaborate on this. How do you see this?

I mean: When you want new sessions to start with a docked or windowed browser, then you can setup a new session like this and save it as the "New" session template. (cfr the factory New.MuSession uses a docked browser)

That said, imagine you have multiple session windows and you dock/window the browser in one of them, i don't think it would be expected behaviour if suddenly all other session windows would also change their browser to that same setting.

Bottomline is that the browser setup is something on session level not on global level, i think.

What do you think?

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EvilDragon - Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:03 am

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I'm just going by my current experience with Reaper - I can dock the windows however I like and use that screenset layout as a template for all my projects. So I can have Reaper's Media Explorer docked at all times on bottom right, while above it I have my FX browser. And it's always going to be there.


Regarding multiple sessions, of course each could have their own handling - if you close the browser in one, others shouldn't be changed. (However this is not the current behavior in Reaper - if you change docking state, or change the tab from multiple ones docked, it changes for all opened projects.)


I'm just talking about this as a global starting point layout for all projects. I did notice MuLAB doesn't have many dockable windows like Reaper does, so this is a difference there. However, making a certain layout and sticking with it makes it possible to have things like this (well, at least when Reaper is concerned), and always looking like that when you open your DAW fresh:

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mutools - Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:04 am

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Note that you can save whatever session setup to be the "New" session template. That's including the browser setup. So you can have a same static setup whenever you start a new session.

That said, i had a look at reaper's docking features and that's interesting stuff. I've taken note about this wrt future versions. By the way: Which reaper skin is that?

@Digit, this is the same topic you mentioned several times. This is an interesting new part of that puzzle.

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sl23 - Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:22 am

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Hi Jo, did you have a chance to check out those presets yet?

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EvilDragon - Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:27 am

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Oh, like a project template. Noted!


This is the old version of RADO skin by Nick Moritz, with a few of my own changes.

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> DiGiT < - Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:27 am

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i wondered why my ears were ringing!

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mutools - Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:19 am

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I can't find what you mean. Anyone else experiencing something wrong with the green process on/off button for VST plugins?

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mutools - Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:35 am

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I can't repeat this.

When you say "Start to delete sequences from the browsers sequence tab" you mean deleting sequences from the session so that the parts playing these sequences get a "No Sequence" title, right?

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pljones - Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:26 am

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How is having an empty project with the browser open crossing the Free bounds?

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mutools - Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:32 am

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It's not. But if you have crossed the bounds recently and then start a new session, then it can still take a couple of minutes before the demo noise disappears. Or do you mean that the demo noise comes even more than say 5 minutes after returning inside the limits?

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