KVR :: Effects » What's Your Opinion On Nebula VST? [View Original Topic]
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sorohanro - Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:01 pm

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So, many years ago I've heard of this Nebula VST but whenever I actually get the free version and try it, my computer could not put up with it. I see t praised on many audio forums for the wonderful analog emulations, brilliant ….whatever, so, I decided yesterday to try it again.
Got the free version and installed it. My impressions are not really positive.
- crashes whenever I run it in same project with T-Raks or plugins from Nomad Factory
- all amp, preamp, tape and tube emulations don't really do anything to the sound
- compressors don't really act like compressors
- reverbs are a bad joke
- the "liquid" slider doesn't do anything, maybe some bad artifacts in one reverb program
- when I run together with plugins that use same engine I have bursts of high pitched noise and my mixer channels go on red and stay there even after the sound stopped

Now, I see so many people being amazed by it that it makes me wonder, am I getting the bad results only?
What's your experience with it?[/url]

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BLUE-S-MAN - Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:57 pm

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Cause they know what to do

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Lenticular - Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:12 pm

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You have to learn what it does & how to use it first.
You're results show severe user error & understanding, especially your 'pre-amp, reverb, tape emu & moving liquidity slider' comments.

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sorohanro - Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:15 pm

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Anyone to share the recipe then?
Beside the loud bursts of noise, I don't really see anything that can't be done by VOS plugins or other freebies (JB bundle, LiquidSonics Reverberate or Vintager Toy).

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Lenticular - Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:18 pm

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No secret, maybe you're system can't handle it.

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sorohanro - Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:33 pm

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Thanks for replies.
Well, my system is not really the most powerful, but can run at least 8-9 instances of Kontakt or Play engine with pretty heavy libraries.

I have just the free version of Nebula and for now the only thing I like is a compressor found on some forum (some community...something), an amp simulator and some skins that look good but on the rest... the preamps are a bit too subtle to hear (or even see in a wav editor), regardless of how hard I push the gain or saturation or whatever slider is available.
The attack and release on the default compressors don't react like a compressor, I can't really hear a change in the transients, just in the gain.
The 3 reverbs there are quite bad.
Tape simulator... well, maybe good, but FerricTDS or TB ReelBus make more dramatic changes and the knobs and sliders actually change a lot of sound when you turn them around.

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toby - Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:07 pm

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I've got Nebula and my experiences are mainly positive (although it is a bit clunky to use)

I think the strengths as most people mentioned are mainly in the 3rd party library developers.

The R2R & TapeBooster from CD Soundmaster is great.
I've been using an AlexB Eq which is quite nice (although you need to load each band of eq in a seperate plugin - very unfortunate)
The VVXT plate reverb is excellent.

Rayflex compressor is excellent I found.

Again though loading a new program for each preset is a clunky way of doing things

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dalor - Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:36 pm

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I sold it a while back. When it works - it's great! But - sometimes you pick a preset - nothing, no change, you check the library paths, close and restart host again, then it shows up unregistered, you download new version, send an email for new regcode, wait 1-48 hours, enter registration and it's not working (or sometimes it does), load library again - nothing working, no change in sound and you have no idea what's going on. He was very helpful throughout this but at the end I just gave up due to frustration.

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lacandon - Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:49 pm

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Sounds a bit metallic to me and doesn't sound so catchy as i expected to be , or i heard for it . Just tested Vary Mu library of this guy Alex B and is not good very harsh ! Liquid mix Vary Mu is much better ! Also good programs for it eat too much cpu ! Great pre amps i can say on it !

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Jafo - Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:28 pm

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I love Nebula, but it can be very temperamental and contrary. It works great for AeternusEternaus' cab sims (my main use), EQs, and reverbs, but I've had it do all sorts of weird things -- maybe its Heisenbugs make it moody. Still, if it likes you, it makes magic. (But so do many other plugs, and much more reliably.)

Not exactly the most glowing (or rational) endorsement, alas. But I don't know any other way to explain why competent users have such disparate experiences. A lot of it could also be due to the gear -- maybe people chose very well-behaved high-end gear that interacts in subtle yet complex ways, and the results aren't as obvious as many plugs. Or maybe hardware is more linear that you think.

More importantly, maybe your tastes are different, and you might prefer what other plugs do. That's a perfectly valid and respectable response. In fact, I'd argue that the only opinion that really counts is your own (well, once you know what you're doing and have considered the alternatives). To paraphrase Dave Pensado, you're hired more for your taste than your skills.

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filter303 - Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:34 pm

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I usually avoid participating topics where my opinion can fuel any unnecessary flame wars. Sometimes you got to rock the boat, but it's not always necessary when people are just discussing tools that they use to make music. I wanted to start a similar thread to this some time ago, and now I just felt the urge to reply here.

To put it short, I agree with the original poster.
I have the version 3 pro with many 3rd party libraries, of many which people seem to be recommending in various forums, including here at kvr. I have to say that besides EQ's or vnxt plate, nebula isn't doing much for me either. There is so much hype surrounding this product, it's ridiculous. It's almost getting into a religion. Some people are so passionate and fanatic about Nebula, that it starts to become really annoying after a while. I have kept my mouth shut because I am not looking to hurt anyone's feelings with my opinions.

I find it very strange that anytime someone criticizes this product in a respectful manner (I am not necessarily talking about this thread), there is a wave of nebula zealots who come out and say:

- you don't have the ears to hear the difference, the effect is so subtle, but it's there
- you need to get some 3rd party libraries.. those are the shit
- your computer can't handle it
- you don't understand what you are doing
- you need to read the manual and try different settings
- you haven't used it long enough to know the difference
- you need pro version
- you need to be more patient
- you don't have proper gain staging

People generally get very offensive when they notice that someone has the nerve to dislike their favorite little toy. It's always the user who gets the blame if he does not like Nebula. It's his fault of doing something wrong or maybe missing experience, taste or golden ears.
If you have nerve to disagree with the Nebula zealots you will automatically become an amateur in their eyes, and they will let you know it. Nebula (among many other plugins) is becoming like a religion for many. I generally don't understand why these kind of discussions get heated so often when people are only not in agreement of what is good and what is not.

After using nebula for a while I can honestly say that Nebula overdrive/distortion/saturation is a big let down for me (I don't even want to talk about the compressors). I can't hear it doing anything in this aspect.
I compared some of the 3rd library tapes to Reelbus and I didn't have to spend lot of time listening in order to realize which one I preferred. I also have tons of "pre-amp" programs for nebula, and let me just say this. With a real analog preamp you can hear what it does even if you don't have much experience with it. If you adjust the gain knob in Nebula, you don't get any of that tasty overdrive that you could get from an analog gear.
With analog units you can shape the signal in very radical ways if you choose to do so. Having nebula in the signal path does nothing I can hear. Even my 90€ audio interface mic preamp does a better job giving some vibe to my synths. It's speaks for itself that many people who use Nebula use a technique of lining multiple Nebula instances to get some effect which you can notice.

I also bought this distortion pedal program from a respected nebula 3rd party developer.
The product original products, which this program was sampled from was something I happened to be very familiar with, after all I had owned it for years.
I bought the program because I was tired of hearing stuff like "well.. preamp emus are so subtle that you need the ear to hear it". So I wanted to try an emulation of something that should be emulating the extreme ways of shaping audio. I know the sound of the original "sampled" gear, and I could honestly say that nebula didn't sound anything like it. I wanted to like it, but it didn't do anything I wanted to do to my sound.
In fact I could get better distortions of any freeware plugins I have tried.

An emulation of a tube preamp should not be so subtle that even experienced people can't hear any difference. If I process my synths with even cheap analog gear, I can hear what it's doing. And that was 15 years ago when I didn't have much experience and my ears were far more untrained than what it is now.
I have never heard an example of Nebula doing anything like this. Even my 10€ behringer pedals do better job providing overdrive than nebula, which is not doing good distortion. Nebula is claiming to be emulating analog distortion, but the way it is sounds very unnatural. Someone can say that maybe there is something wrong with your computer? Hehehe... Maybe I should have added it to my list.

When it came to chorus, phaser, flanger and filter programs, it was so easy to get better sounding results with stuff like Cytomic, D16, TAL, ArtsAcoustic products. And needless to say they also used less cpu while doing so and there is no risk of horrible artifacts either. I am not talking about the workflow, as I don't mind how cumbersome Nebula can be, if it just sounded as good as promised.

I don't even want to start speak about the compressors, because there is nothing to tell except that they don't work that well either.

I often hear that some nebula users call regular plugins as plastic sounding. It's one of those phrases you get to hear a lot. In my opinion it's the exact opposite. Same thing with words like "game changer" (oh how I hate that expression with a passion). Only thing Nebula has changed for me is the amount of money I have in my account. In all of my (non scientific, just relying on my taste and hearing) harmonic distortion tests nebula was the one which sounded worse than the plugins I owned. And I don't even own and of those fancy UA, Waves, Softube, Soundtoys, Slate etc (insert brand here) products.

I had read so much praise about it for many years so eventually I just had to buy it and see if it was true. Nebula was one of my biggest plugin investments in 2012. Now that I think about it, I really wish that I didn't listen to the hype surrounding it. I could have saved myself a lot of money, which I had better spent on some other products.

Whenever I think about Nebula, the word placebo comes into my mind. It's an effect we shouldn't be underestimating. People say that Nebula is magic, but if that is the case, I seem to have missed it.

I know what is being claimed about the technology behind Nebula. And I also know that many respected audio engineers use it and praise it too. But the only thing I will trust in this one are my own ears.

I agree with the previous poster also about the EQ's, cabs and some reverbs (like VNXT plate's). These are the exception for me when it comes to nebula. I was initially impressed with the EQ's. But I have to spend more time trying to match them with my other tools before I make my judgement. If the EQ's are as good as they seem to be. Then it's worth having a Nebula in the toolbox just so you can have some very tasty EQ's ITB. For anything other than this, it seems to me that I have lost the faith in Nebula.

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ariston - Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:28 pm

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@filter303: thanks so much for your detailed, critical but very fair and balanced statement on Nebula. It could have come from me, every single word of it.

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gavriloP - Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:58 am

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I also think that Nebula is a mixed bag. I've been using it for quite some time, but little by little other algorithmic plugins have took it's place in the FX chain. For starters, I don't even have those basic programs installed anymore, I'm using 3rd party programs completely.

For my personal use, I much prefer my own tube preamps (Peavey VMP2, GT the Brick, Ampeg SVT-MP and even EH12ay7) so I have no need for that "subtle coloring". And even though I don't have tape machine I prefer TB Reelbus plugin over Nebula. Same goes with console emu's and coloring altogether. I prefer plugins that let you dial in the sound and not just go through presets trying to choose what sounds "better".

All in all, the best way to color is to get it right with the source (instrument, room, mic and placement and preamp and then at least decent converter).

Nebula EQs do sound good but there the practicality also wins. Sonimus Sweetone and DDMF stuff is just so much more usable, and still very cheap. I sometimes do use Nebula Germanos EQs from Analog in the Box, especially for boosting higs, but most of the time it is just DDMF stuff. Also it is nuisance to be so rigor about gain staging with nebula. I have to use VU metering plugins before it to get proper level in and if it goes even one dB too high, sound can crap out completely. That was one thing that drove me nuts with tape programs especially. Also the GUI in itself is atrocious. Tiny fonts and aesthetics from 90s hardware are irritating. I'm not talking about slider, knobs or bitmaps, those are just candy but the "led display" is just stupid. Also the metering should be much better, considering what I just wrote before.

I've only used free amp cab programs for nebula but those were somewhat bizarre. Basic IRs are perhaps more flat and 2D than those but they simply work without surprises. Anyway, that department is something I believe could work very well with nebula.

The only thing that I really use Nebula nowadays are reverbs. And especially special vintage reverbs like springs. With Valhalla DSP reverbs my "digital" reverb needs are fully covered but AITB's Tank verb springs are in everyday use here with guitars. Actually I don't even use VNXT's EMT140 programs much because I prefer SKnote's Verbtone for tweakability.

So there you have it, AITB's spring reverb and little german EQs. That's the Nebula for me.

Also, once someone makes good spring verb plugin (or I buy the real thing), it is hasta la vista, baby for Nebula.

Unless of course those amp cab programs win me over

Oh and one other thing: the size of programs is ridiculous! My Tank Verb programs from AITB are 12GB! Yep, you read that correctly. In fact I removed most of the different tube variations just to get usable user interface with the menus and also because that much choice just becomes limiting (to compare which of the different tube versions sounds suitable for which). It is cool that AITB has those options but because of Nebula's archaic menu system I just got lost with the choices.

Each program taking hundreds of megs of my RAM is just something I can live without.

EDIT: also, compressors, modulation FX and distortion are simply not working for me in Nebula. I see no point to use Nebula to those over any plugin.

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4damind - Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:18 am

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I own the Pro version with some 3rd party libraries. In the past it was IMO the only option to have some good sounding tapes or vintage EQs like the D.W. Fearn. But I never liked the GUI or the handling with EQs, the library browser etc.
Newer algorithmic emulations are on a very high level so I never installed Nebula again after a OS update. For me the time with Nebula is over.

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sorohanro - Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:45 am

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WOW !!! just WOW !
Thanks @filter303 and @gavriloP for the HUGE detailed posts, and thanks everybody for sharing their opinions.
So, bye Nebula and instead I'll be just fine with Reel Bus/FerricTDS for tape, Recabinet/Amplitube/Guitar Rig for cabinets, Reverberate/Origami/Reflektor for impulses.

I'm a little sad for this, I really wanted a "new toy" to fool around with (and, don't laugh, I really some of the skins there).
My music is highly influenced by the environment (not mixing, I just find a good GUI inspiring and put me in the mood for doing new stuff).

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Breeze - Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:05 am

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I've also used tried using Nebula with some of the pro libraries and have to concur with the other unsatisfied voices here. There's been remarkable strides in the past few years regarding analog emulation in traditional plugin coding that has robbed much of Nebula's magic; it just isn't as relevant as it used to be. IMO, the one area where it could continue to have value for non-programmers is allowing users to "sample" their own equipment but the advanced tools and techniques for doing this have been denied to the common user in order to favour of the commercial library devs.

After much complaining they really improved the website and somewhat streamlined their operations, but the user interface remains clunky and the registrations system remains frustratingly archaic; as others have mentioned, there's no obvious message that tells you there's a registration problem, which for a processor that deals in subtle and sometimes near-imperceptible effects, is ridiculous.

BTW, AFAIK, Nebula Pro can't be resold. Has this changed?

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electro - Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:25 am

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You feel there are coded plugs that can do better preamps and channelstrips than Nebula?

Nebula is for those FX you don't need to tweak so the interface isn't that big a deal. The big deal is the CPU demands.

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sealsongs - Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:43 am

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Well, if nothing else I'd say save it for your stems or final mix. It's just like sprinkling a little magic fairy dust on everything...you'll see.

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Flandersh - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:13 am

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It is by no mean a user friendly plugin, which is a bad thing I hope they work on in the future. That said I love this plugin; one of the best audio investments I have ever done. I have yet to find another plugin which sound as good as it (thought I find Harrison mixbus to have a sound as good as nebula). I don't use the factory libraries because most of them sounds bad compared to 3rd party libraries; some of the factory chorus and so sounds good though (but one have free vst's which sounds as good as the good chorus and is much more userfriendly).

The sounds of it is for sure often subtle, and that is what drive me too it; often analogue emulations sounds to drastic which make them more coloring than repairing to the songs, and that is not something I want.

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cactuseskimo - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:51 am

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I agree and disagree.

Is it user friendly? No, I guess not. But at the same time, I haven't had any real issues with it, and the it's generally easy to get questions answered on the forum.

The workflow? Takes a little getting used to. Hasn't seemed like a huge deal.

Are some of the tapes, tube preamps, etc. subtle? Yes they are. At the same time, I don't think we realize how subtle these things are in the real world. Most of the developers post audio examples going through the nebula program and the actual gear for comparisons. Generally, Nebula sounds pretty much spot on - and yes, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between those files (Nebula and the real gear) and the plain unprocessed one. In other words - it's extremely subtle.

We live in an age that has continuously told us that digital sounds downright horrible, and oh for the days of tape and tubes. Thus, we would all be very disappointed if plugin developers made tape and tube emulations that were as subtle as one-pass through the real thing. It's my opinion that these effects are generally an over exaggerated emulation of their real world counterparts. Do they sound good? Yeah, a lot of them do, so if you like them, then great!

In summary, I like Nebula. If starting over, I think I would buy it again. The eq's to my ears are the smoothest things going (try some comparisons on an entire mix), and I do like some of the preamps and tape presets for a subtle weight/dimension to the sound. The reverbs are generally very good (not the stock libraries as they were just sampled from plugins), and the new Kult Compressor (SPL Kultube) sounds extremely expensive IMHO, and extremely usable. Nebula does not have full compressor functionality yet, but some very clever dev's have been releasing libraries that are changing that recently.

I still like to use Waves Kramer Tape for the aforementioned, more obvious tape sound, and I like the Auto Volume from Melda and the Thrillseeker XTC from VOS. Besides that, I pretty much use Nebula for the rest of the eq, color, comp and reverb (although I do have some real spaces IR's that I still use often).

Hope that helps.

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meloco_go - Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:45 am

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I'm using Nebula Pro for a few years already (my license file dates February 2010). I went thru phases when I would try to add as much intances as I could and now there's usually just 1-3 instances in my projects.
So, would I advice you to buy it? ABSOLUTELY! If you're not REALLY short on money buy it and grab some 3rd party libraries.
Why?
After years of using Nebula alongside my usual plugins I have to say that where Nebula shines and what algorithmics miss is the element of unpredictability and sort of "holisticity" in a way they work. It is also the part where HW wins.
What does this mean?
Let me explain:
I do love experiments and several times I would grab a nebula program (like a Neve EQ) and would try to come with the same sound using common EQ. Often I found that I needed three-four bands to match the frequency responce and most of the times I would have to add something like Tessla or VCC for that slight drive. I really could come close to the point that the difference is irrelevant in the mix.
But from the workflow standpoint, handn't I have an example of what that program adds I would NEVER come with the same settings. So, I think it is a big difference in that Nebula as a HW the models are taken from impose a lot of character at once and you can then decide whether it works for the benefit or not. With most plugins it's easy to end microanalyzing details to infinity and loose the vision in the process.
That is, to me, the biggest difference. There are a few plugins which have same sort of an attitude (Cytomic Drop, ThrillseekerLA and maybe a couple of others) and I think we're getting more of that, but so far Nebula has much broader palette of sounds you can try.
And now the sound -- there are a lot of the programs that sound really good!
I usually have an instance of Nebula EQ and console on my master and that really adds to the sonics.
Also, you complained about reverbs, but nebula has some fantastic ones, like VNXT's EMT 140.
So, once again, if you're not short on money, grab Nebula, grab some AlexB, analoginthebox, rhythminmind, VNXT, cupwise etc etc programs and make some music!
Yeah, having x64 OS is a BIG benefit for Nebula.

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sorohanro - Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:12 pm

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Thanks for replies. Quite in depth and informative, yet I already made my mind and uninstalled it.
Might be just me, but Nebula doesn't really do it for me.

In a recording I can't maybe hear a difference between two preamps, but while recording I can hear the difference between my Presonus Bluetube and Focusrite. Meanwhile, I can't hear any change or coloring while switching between preamps in Nebula.

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cron - Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:16 pm

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Tried NebulaCM a while back and my machine, an admittedly ancient 1.6GHz Core 2 Duo laptop, just wasn't having any of it. Getting a new computer in the coming weeks and I'm gonna give it another look then. The concept seems very interesting.

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Tp3 - Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:12 pm

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free version is VERY limited vs the full fledged. V-E-R-Y.



Learn to gain stage... and don't expect "Fuzz Distortion".


I believe the free version represent a very early stage in Nebula's life where it was weaker in this department.


This is a bad joke, right ?...

Take a listen to the VNXT 20E (AKG 20E Plate Reverb - y'know... the huge boxes)


The trick with Nebula is : don't tweak (of course there ARE conditions where one MUST tweak. but this is for advanced\experiened users). load,listen,or reload - that's my motto.


Nebula free is not intended for the 3rd party libraries.


Yes.

Learn what each version has to offer and then - ONLY then - you'll be able to better judge it.

Nebula is a tool that has to be "approached" in a certain way. it's a container of many libraries. each library has it's own "caveats" (maybe "caveats" is not the correct term.... "user guide" is probably more appropriate). it's up to the user to seek for info in order to fully understand (and exploit) it.

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sorohanro - Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:13 pm

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Thanks for your feedback.

Good to know this.
I don't think is a good idea that the demo, the "business card", the "first impression" is bad or limited in terms of quality.


As mentioned before, while recording, I can hear the difference between my Presonus and my Focusrite, especially with a good microphone. (Presonus sounds a bit better for brass instruments, at least to my taste).


I tried just the reverbs in the free version and those really didn't work at all. When listening only to wet signal was like those bad noise reduction plugins that make weird artifacts and tweaking the "liquidity" slider made those artifacts to have weird pitches...
For now I have the Reverberate and even it's default impulses sounds better, but I got some Bricasti impulses and those sounds pretty cool on orchestral stuff. Also I got the TC Electronic M30 (while was free), Halls Of Fame Origami with BRIC M17 and EVENT 2016 and those kind of get the job done.


Well, each sound is unique, or at least needs specific treatment in a mix, depending on arrangement, so, stuff like EZmix or "don't tweak" might be a bit limited.
I use EZmix but sometimes I get better results with separate plugins.


Might be a misunderstanding. Sorry for my limited English knowledge.

I didn't try to run those INTO Nebula, those are separate plugins, that have their own dll and even if use same engine, you don't have to install Nebula for them to work.
You install them as a separate plugin and those were working just fine until I opened an instance of Nebula.
Same thing goes with T-Raks or Nomad Factory plugins.


funny
Actually, until I opened this topic I thought this too, then:

and


and

So... it seems that I'm not the only one after all



Thanks for the link and for the advice.
Do you have a mix with "before and after"? It would be interesting to hear.
Something with a more dramatic change so even a deaf trumpet player like me would hear

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FeelingMachine - Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:51 pm

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Euphoric Nebula user here.

Here is all you need to know :

You need buckets of CPU

You need to read everything

Once you understand that, next its imperative to follow dBu reference levels of the program/libraries you are using and how they are intended to work and how to apply it, or often it will not work as intended.

Nebula works, but it has been a complex ongoing development which in some way has sacrificed certain 'customer comforts'. For what Nebula has done for me, i do not mind this one tiny percent and now that i have become more fluent with Nebula, i find everything i currently need working perfectly, including the workflow (YMMV regarding workflow, entirely dependant on your processing power).

I have either purchased or demo'd most of the third party libraries and i can safely say that everything indeed does what is intended, bar the compressors with the exception of a handful of new fully responsive comps.

Programs like pre-amps and console emulations are indeed very subtle, but it is a very sweet and accumulative subtle that will change ITB mixes. Again, reading is important. Often the wrong program is being used on the wrong material. If you cannot hear a preamp affecting the sound, try adding further processing on top of the chain then bypass the pre-amp. This is where the magic lies and the same applies to the mic/line in/out, channel, buss, aux and mojo programs.

You can simply test this for yourself by creating a mix while emulating a hardware set-up with Nebula, preamp > line-in > channel > bus > output etc, then either bypassing Nebula or creating the same mix from scratch without Nebula.

Waves NLS, Satson Channel/Bus, TB Reelbus etc are good - you can get a satisfactory 'OTB' job done with these - but for me, Nebula just blows it all away. The depth and size of the field, the colour, saturation, harmonic distortion, etc is just all in the pocket imo, it is the hardware sampled after all..

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gmitch - Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:03 pm

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YEP!!!

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Tp3 - Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:21 am

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No, you AND three more guys don't know how to operate this plug (it's not personal, fella... yes ?)

y'know, for a LONG time, I thought some of Bootsie's plugs are subtle, at best.

y'have to understand one thing (and I will follow bManic's motto) :
Different plugs sound and behave DIFFERENTLY, at different gain stages. each plug has its own nominal level ("working level") and you have to be very specific with this, know how to hit the plug, level wise, otherwise you will get the wrong result... or won't be able to hear nothing AT ALL.

Next time you "don't hear anything" try going to the plug at -18dbFS RMS (lower the volume with something like FreeG). insert Nebula... and insert a FreeG after (to compensate). most (if not all) "analog" emu's act this way.

You will be able to better judge the results that way (which, STILL, can be subtle...but nonetheless - discernible)


Lemme quate Morpheus from the first Matrix movie :

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zabukowski - Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:23 am

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I couldn't agree more. It is like listening to a good mix/master (done by someone else) and saying: "I could do the same without a problem". Maybe I could, but not without listening to existing mix/master first. If I had to do it from the scratch, I would probably never achieve that.

Nebula makes me do good decisions and points me to the right direction while mixing and mastering. Often in very subtle way but in the end, difference is evident. Placebo ? Who cares

Zabukowski

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sorohanro - Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:13 am

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So... I see some positive feedback, so, maybe I need to take a second look (well, actually third) at it.
Really, a comparative mix would help. At least I would know what to expect it to behave like. Stuff like " I can only show you the door... YOU have to open it" it's not really convincing.
An example like this:
http://soundcloud.com/mihai-sorohan/p-m-plug-ins-test-1
might be more convincing, eventually with a video walk-through.

For now, all the videos about Nebula or programs are like: some music, followed by the title of the program with something like "the sweet sound of *****, with it's legendary analog warmth....", and then some pictures of gear and stop. No actual mix with it, no solo instruments or groups using it, no examples how to use it...

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gavriloP - Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:13 am

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Well, Tp3 wrote that I don't know how to operate Nebula because I don't like everything in it. I can assure you he is wrong. I mentioned the gain staging and I've dived into the heart of Nebula so to speak. Fact remains that compressors and such don't really work well in Nebula. I do have 3rd party compressor programs, tapes etc. but they are all gathering digital dust.

The use of EQ with separate plugins for each band etc. is just unintuitive. Call me a control freak but I don't like the idea that I batch process my files through some nebula programs. I like to hear what I'm doing hands on and not go through presets. When you use presets with images of real hardware in your head, placebo effect goes to the next level. Yes, the sound changes but for the better?

I don't deny that many Nebula programs do sound good, but the hassle isn't worth it. And it doesn't teach you the valuable thing that is to know your tools.

And like I said, stuff like TB Reelbus is so much better than Nebula. You can really tailor your sound with it, and it is smooth. Is it authentic? Well who cares if I can make my bongo tracks sound like overdriven tape in 1969, that's good enough for me. And I don't have to select the exact right gain tape program with just exact input gain trim.

Compressors with hardwired settings and couple of dB max reduction (slow I might add) isn't suitable as dynamic tool, it is polisihing. And distortions are ridiculous. No wonder there is no guitar amp programs. You'd think that they would be ideal with Nebula.

I really think that if you want hardware sound, get hardware and guit dreaming.

People get too fixed about that final 1% fairy dust polishing. Nebula can help you with that (although so can many algo plugins too nowadays). Fact remains that the music is shaped in the rest 99%.

With the ease of digital we tend to do layers of fairy dust processing, but more than once I've found that in the end I like the original sound best. Right mic and pre can give you mojo that no code can replicate. If your stuff is "too digital" get some old dynamic mics like EV stuff or even some lofi consumer reel to reel mics. Or even some cheap ribbon mic.

EDIT: just one tidbit: yesterday I was using Tank Verb with Nebula once again and because of the naming of files I can't even tell which program I am using! Well there is that little number which tells it but still, it feels like I'm messing with led display hardware from 90s. Going through menu pages with limited characters etc. AAARRGH!

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maxxxter - Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:57 am

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That's just not true, they work perfectly, you just have to have the PRO version of Nebula to run them (they don't work in Neb 2 and 3 standard because of engine differences, only PRO and Server).

Some of the very best ITB comps I ever heard are in Nebula:

http://www.cupwise.com/cup/rayphlex661x2-a/
http://www.cupwise.com/cup/rayphlex661x2-b/

http://www.gemini-audio.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=61

http://www.alessandroboschi.eu/html/alexb/gmd_german_mastering_dynamics.htm

I can say I do understand the frustration in some users, I myself experienced many. But, IMO, nothing can still touch Nebula if you know what you're doing.

regards

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bduffy - Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:58 am

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I'll side with the detractors and say that I've never had a good experience with Nebula. I've patiently read up, followed instructions, listened to evangelists' advice, followed gain-staging...but always come up empty.

For the hell of it, I'm going to download and install it again (I'd like to hear a comparative mix). After blowing over an hour figuring out how to install it on the Mac (no mention in manual or FAQ), hunting down ".SER" files which don't exist and waiting for manual authorization via email, I'm reminded why I somehow keep forgetting to use it...

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Breeze - Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:19 am

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I remember listening to a mix comparison with and without Nebula, and I remember not hearing much of a difference. My monitors are very decent and so is my room. The ear is one of the easiest organs to fool and we often do it to ourselves.

Which is not to say that Nebula does nothing! Some of the commercial library presets I've tried are very nice. I own the VNXT reverb, which is great, but these days I find just as much satisfaction reaching for B2, Lexicon and others. The same is true of other processing. Someone asked me about preamps and channel strips: preamps I get from hardware and I'm very happy with Waves SSL and the various other comps, eq's and character plugins that I have. Some will no doubt say that I have not achieved the level of sensitivity required to appreciate the sonic improvements that Nebula provides. All I can say to that is right or wrong, maybe it's just not MY time for Nebula.

So for ME, Nebula is simply not worth the time and trouble involved dealing with its idiosyncracies. YMMV: we don't all make the same music, have the same needs, priorities, resources, etc.... In the end, whatever works for you, works.

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Cooker - Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:33 am

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To me...

Cab.s; The free/donationware cab.s created by users is easily in the top 3 of what available today. On my i5 I can play instant with an amp plug-in (+fx) in 96khz with no problem. I always adjust the drive to as much as I can.

Recabinet might be the best out there but I'd say cause of ease of use, I don't think it sound better than the nebula cab.s. Its a great deal for guitar players.

Tubes, tapes, preamps...; I use them when subtle is needed like rather than surgical eq a vocal or piano, they work much better. I'm not really into the console vibe.

Enhancers; Mainly transcending music librarys. There are like chains combined in tweakable presets, when it works its great. Really time saving.

EQ's; Most are too colored for mastering but I do use them sort of like a coloring tool (just insert and toggle drive)when needed. On mixing I insert max 1-2 instances to channels then go with regular min.phase eq, thats actually how they are ment to be used.

Thats about it for me. There are other tools but I don't have to use them just because they're there

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gavriloP - Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:31 pm

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Well, that could be it: I have Nebula 3, not the PRO version. Good catch there. But still, before the pro version some folks were already praising compressor programs on Nebula. And I know that it wasn't really so. Anyway, I won't be upgrading, I'm covered on dynamics department. Well, if anything I'll buy some hardware in the future. Even though 3rd party Nebula programs are cheap per se, I've blown way too much to them already. Everything adds up.

But if the PRO version is much better than regular 3, then it really might be worth it for some folks.

I still prefer ear-hand coordination with mixing and better user interfaces.

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FeelingMachine - Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:25 pm

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Dude ! Where are these ?

There is a possibility that i have downloaded them somewhere, but just to be sure !

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Cooker - Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:40 pm

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I find myself using these the most;

http://damyfx.altervista.org/free-nebula-programs.html

these aren't bad too;

cabs.kalthallen.de

This guy once shared a beta, all he has is payware but that beta was really good;

http://www.ownhammer.com/store/

So besides ownhammer, the 2 freeware site has a total like 300 cab.s they are 3 to 5 kernel, I drive them as much as I can and most sound similar to the recabinet dynamic knob

Oh also I notice on nebula 2 the kernel's open at zero, I have to go to the kern menu and adjust to 10 on every preset...I'm not sure if this also applys for 3 or pro?

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bduffy - Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:31 pm

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Where is the best place to get free/best Nebula libraries these days? I seem to recall torrent sites a couple years ago, but my memory is fuzzy.

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djanthonyw - Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:38 pm

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Nebula is awesome. I think to get the most out of it you have to use it like a rack of hardware and bounce the audio you want after processing or use it on the master buss.

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Lenticular - Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:58 pm

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With today's computers you can run many more instances in real time than in the past.
3rd party: AITB, AlexB, VNXT, Signal To Noise, CD Soundmaster are all very good quality & useful programs.

Never do the A/B thing. You have to mix using these plugins (just like console emu's) yourself. Use & develop your own skills & ears, not others who may or may not know what's up to begin with.

I will say that vst plugins are catching up to Nebula's quality & they need to
keep improving & developing or they will become irrelevant.

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Cooker - Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:06 am

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Yeah the torrent isn't used anymore. There is a 3. party developers list on webpage at "company", I guess besides that the forum is the place to search or ask for specific tools. Almost all of them offers demo programs, users also share free stuff often at forum.

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bduffy - Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:36 pm

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Thanks, man!

Well, over two days now, and still waiting for my authorization. Can't even use the f**king demo. This is ridiculous.

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analoguesamples909 - Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:34 pm

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some plugins like slate vtm are getting close to Nebula but when you hear a A/B Nebula always sounds better to me.

Nebula is a hassle but one Im willing to pay for in small amounts...I try to do as much eqing with Nebula as poss...also tapebooster...and a bit of preamp colour suite. The consoles IMO are too subtle to be worth the bother. Reverbs are cool but no modulation - now days there is Lexicon, VVV and Exponential for that.

So really its all about a bit of subtle saturation, EQ and tape. The only compressors worth buying are the rayflex and CDSoundmaster The Drum Compressor is cool to give some analogue vibe to drums...it definitely gives analogue tone to a digital mix.

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richinmusic - Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:01 am

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Oh good, my turn. I am 47 years old and have over 25 years in the audio industry, and up until 4 years ago, this experience has been 100% analog. I avoided digital audio at all costs, especially all ITB work. I tried to like it, and my distaste was not due to some bias or trendiness, my ears that were accustomed to a certain "feel" or "vibe" in my audio did not like what I was hearing. I tried the free Nebula and like many people, I hated it. It performed poorly, was clunky, I just didn't understand the hype. One day while pouring over the Reaper forum, looking for an answer to a particularly serious issue I was having in the middle of a session with a real client, I noticed a mention of Nebula (unrelated thread to my issue) by a long-time forum person that I had not only received a ton of help from in the past, but also was a person whom I had collaborated with on a few business related projects. I trusted this person, so I bookmarked the thread and moved on. After the session, I went to my computer and found the thread about Nebula. After reading all of this praise, but still reluctant because of my own terrible experience with it, I impulsively took the plunge and purchased the Nebula pro package. Yes, it took some time to figure it out, to get the work-flow. And the supplied presets were ok, but nothing stellar. But when I started buying some of my first 3rd party libraries, from Analoginthebox. CDSM, Alex B, Signaltonoise, Own Hammer..... my audio brain exploded and realized what I was missing from ITB digital audio. Reverbs not good? You are kidding me. Preamps not affecting the source? You are either deaf or have never worked with a good preamp.....I still have some of my favorite algo plugs, not many, but some. But no algo plug can deliver the mojo that a well sampled Nebula preset can.
For all of you people who don't like it: fine and dandy, it certainly is not for everyone. I have had to completely restructure not only my work-flow, but my gear, my pricing to clients.... almost redefined my work entirely. But I don't ever plan on going back to all algo based plugins with digital audio. No thanks, my ears have been spoiled and things sound too good to be swayed by the convenience of flat sounding audio. For the record, I voted "Wouldn't live without it".

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Sparky77 - Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:19 pm

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Personally, I find that the disadvantages outway the advantages
There are better sounding effects that are much more intutitve to work with.
UAD, WAVES, and many more just sound better.

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maxxxter - Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:32 pm

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Frankly I couldn't agree less, sound-wise they're nowhere near the same ballpark.

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djanthonyw - Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:45 pm

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Agreed.

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kylen - Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:09 pm

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Well - I voted good but limited. I deserve to catch he$$ for that because I have the feeling the plugin is great forward-thinking and already has exceptional sampled libraries.

In my re-mastering endevours I have had access to GML8200 mastering eq (CDSoundMasters 8300), Tapes and Pre-Amps that would cost over $100K by AlexB, consoles and mojo by Henry. Keys to the city in other words. I literally dream about all the hardware I have in sampled libraries. Giga-bytes of audio!

But I always end up taking Nebula out of my plugin chain. It sounds un-natural the way I'm using it I'm sure. I think that if I was mixing instruments I could probably control it better. Right now I think I'm turning it up to 11 on the master buss. Between goofing up gain-staging and probably some kern or mast settings I'm wasting the potential of all these sampled pieces of equipment. It's limited by me, the end user because it can be I guess.

So, in the end...it's me, not you...but I'll always keep trying.

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richinmusic - Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:12 pm

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More intuitive, I could agree if I really try. Sound better? Not even close in my opinion. But luckily there are enough choices for everyone to be happy. Besides, I love it when people like their algo plugs, my "Nebulized" tracks stand out even more and sound even better when more people are used to not hearing it so good and lovely!! And personally... Waves? Sound good? I wouldn't use waves if it were freeware, I don't know why but they have never sounded good at all to me. UAD... they do sound good, a barely acceptable Nebula replacement if I am on someone else's DAW....lol. Sorry, I am just being "that way", it's all in good fun.

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Winstontaneous - Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:18 pm

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After seeing this thread I downloaded Nebula 3 Free and gave it a spin. I really enjoyed the compressor, tape sim, and modulation FX...the words that came to mind were "plush" and "swanky."

That said, for where I'm currently at, I see the Nebula paradigm (sampling specific settings on specific high-end gear, with a limited range of parameter adjustments) as more of a "spice" or "dessert" than a "main course."

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ariston - Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:23 pm

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Any of the pro-Nebula users care to post A/B clips?

I find this insistence on "x sounds WAY WAY better than y, not even close, not even in the same ballpark blah blah" a bit tiring, no matter which side it comes from.

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Flandersh - Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:30 pm

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I agree, the plugins I have bought from Waves does not sound any good, and their free oneknob was a disaster in my ears.

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bmanic - Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:31 pm

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I disagree. Nebula sounds way better than the competition. It's definitely a hassle to use but it sounds gorgeous.

Cheers!
bManic

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Barendse - Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:39 pm

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+1

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sorohanro - Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:41 pm

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I asked already twice and all I got was a quote from Matrix (I can only show you the door. You have to walk through it.)

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richinmusic - Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:44 pm

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I have posted so many A/B clips for this same topic elsewhere, no offense to request, but I don't have the time. An A/B comparison of a single track, like a guitar or horn part, comparing a "Nebulized" and "non-Nebulized" version is sometimes too subtle to notice any difference. But that same comparison between 2 real consoles or preamps may be as difficult. The real comparison to do is entire mixes of tracks that were heavily "Nebulized" or not at all. Part of the magic of using Nebula is very similar to the magic of using analog signal chains as opposed to all digital; it's a difference that is subtle in small doses but very amazing when it's cumulative. And THAT is precisely why I can't post A/B clips, I don't have time or energy to work up 2 separate complete mixes of the same project, so I apologize. So in response to Ariston and your annoyance; I can only suggest either jumping in and using it, or be happy with your present tools. I am less concerned about convincing anyone to go buy it and get all enthused about it as I am more concerned about helping people that already want to use it get more from it. It revolutionized my work, but as I have said many times, it is not for everyone.

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richinmusic - Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:49 pm

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Ha ha, I posted before I read this. See my last post. There is a reason why many of us Nebula crazed folks don't post clips.

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ariston - Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:01 pm

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The operative word being "magic", I guess.



Here we go again... I'm curious: How much "way", by the way? Twice as good? Thrice as good? 3.1415926545 times better? Or are we talking exponentially better? Do tell.

Seriously, I guess the world will stay as it is, divided between the Nebulons and the Unwashed Ears, and ne'er the twain shall meet.

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bduffy - Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:05 pm

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It's been 5 days now (counting the weekend) since I requested authorization for my Nebula. I'm sorry, but that is totally unacceptable.

And I know people will say "just post on the forums, they're really helpful" - but should I have to do that every time I need a reg code? Ridiculous.

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richinmusic - Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:06 pm

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No reason to be so dramatic. I sort of answered one of your questions, too. Yes, it is exponentially better, if you use Nebula like you would an analog signal chain. The flavor it imparts is a cumulative thing that builds as you go, much like running audio through a long signal chain. And for the record, I used the word "magic" just to get a response. But if you do as much audio as I think you do, then you already understand that not everything can be neatly quantified or qualified; there IS a bit of magic in this work. There is for me sometimes.

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Flandersh - Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:14 pm

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That is one of the aspects which count under my "not userfriendly" description That said, the sound of it has made my decision and I love it despite it not being userfriendly.

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ariston - Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:16 pm

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"Exponentially"? And you call me dramatic? I was just using that thing with iron in it.

No, you won't convince me, sorry. I think your general dismissal of algorithmic plugins is a bit... over-zealous.

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bduffy - Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:16 pm

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I've never found it to live up to its reputation, but that's if I can get it to even work. And I have to admit my frustrations with the whole Nebula experience colour my opinions. But still, it'll have to be pretty f**king amazing, at this point.

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richinmusic - Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:31 pm

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I don't dismiss algo plugs, did you read my other posts? I have some of my favorite's, for sure. I love Sknote, Stillwell, Valhalla, to name a few. But I am not trying to convince toy really. Everyone has their own style and tool-sets, and in the end, we all do what sounds best to us. And maybe exponentially is not the word I wanted, I am not trying to be dramatic. "Cumulative" is more like it. Instead of an A/B test of Nebula and Non, how about some mixes that are Nebula and all analog? That is something that I could put together in a day or so. I have a particular project that has some songs that were tracked completely in a very nice analog studio (complete with Tape and session musicians), and others that were tracked mostly by me, all ITB, and with drum software and heavily Nebulized. I have a hard time telling them apart, honestly. That is the differences I am referring to. But I really don't care if you or anyone here love or hate Nebula (other than the fact that I want enough people to support it so they stay in business, but that is out of my own selfishness!). Cheers, and I am not trying to battle you, this is all about sharing information to hopefully educate ourselves and each other more, and in result making our audio better.

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sorohanro - Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:40 pm

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Because Nebula users find it so difficult to actually make an A/B test, here, in about 8 minutes I made this:
http://soundcloud.com/mihai-sorohan/vintage-vibe-test

Now, there are 2 loops, one percussion, one drum set, both run through one mixer channel and each time the loops are getting another effect on top. First is clean.
Plugins used are Vintager Toy, The MCI JH 536 Console Audio Plug-In which gives me the impression that uses Nebula engine (couldn't use both in my DAW), and Ferric TDS by Bootsy, NOT in that particular order. First loop is clean.

I do understand the difference between preamp, tape and a generic "vintager", so, this is not really a test, just a "doodle" to see if the people can guess by sound which is which and say which sounds better.

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bduffy - Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:59 pm

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Thanks for that, sorohanro! Very hard to say which one sounds "better" based on that...I mean, it depends what you're going for. Two of them sound a bit more "hi-fi" than the original, and one has more tape roll-off type sound.

But I'll be brave and guess that the first process is ReelBus? Not sure about the others. Maybe #2 is Nebula?

I'd be interested in hearing a compressor or time-based effect (like chorus). I never heard those work convincingly in Nebula.

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Breeze - Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:18 pm

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I can totally relate to this. However, it surprises me that Acustica themselves have not once done this. You would think that if it makes that much of a difference, you would want it to be plain and obvious for everyone to appreciate, and you'd find a way to do it convincingly.

I've never encountered an audio product where the manufacturer offers NO audio examples, or some other way of experiencing the "vibe" before purchase. It's bizarre.

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Flandersh - Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:31 pm

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They offer a free version, and besides that many of the library producers offer audio demo's: like AlexB:
http://www.alessandroboschi.eu/html/alexb/listening_room.htm

That said, I have not got the impression that the manufactures are so much into the "We have a product which is better than all the others" market strategy. It is more like "We have a product based on that technic and we hope you like it" strategy, and I find that a much better strategy. For me as a customer I'm interested in what a product is all about, not if it is rated better than another product or not.

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Flandersh - Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:40 pm

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The registering process made me think twice about it, and my conclusion was that for all the days I get such an amazing sound the few times a year I reinstall my OS and so and will have to fiddle with the registering process again is to live with. But I completely understand your frustration about that part of it.

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bduffy - Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:46 pm

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Thanks, man. I try to understand, but it is difficult. I'm hoping I'll hear something good in this plug-in, if I ever get my auth code.

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sorohanro - Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:48 pm

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Thanks for the link. Seems interesting.

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richinmusic - Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:08 pm

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I avoided joining this forum for a few years for this very reason. Why do people have to turn an informative thread into immature rants and insults. I thought I detailed a pretty good explanation why I personally didn't do a ton of audio clips. Comparing Nebula vs non-Nebula on single tracks is not a fair comparison, unless you also happen to produce music that involves only 1 or 2 tracks. Then you may be impacted by results of such tests. But if you are working with many tracks, like most music these days, that is how you should be testing the effects (or lack of) of Nebula on source material. "Because Nebula users...".... this is so goofy. I joined this forum to help some devs that I test for, but I am remembering why this forum often gets annoying. Can't we just share info and sometimes agree to disagree without the petty insults and such? Jeez.

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bduffy - Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:12 pm

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I'm just wondering if there's any way someone could sonically prove Nebula's worth. It might be impossible if you have two well-mixed mixes; then it's just a matter of taste, and the ears of the mixer, between each mix.

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sorohanro - Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:29 pm

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I'm sorry if my comment offended you. Wasn't my intention.
The comment wasn't also directed at you, was just a rant about people coming with "catch phrases" (analog warmth/ game changer/ you don't have the ears to hear/ learn to stage your gain...etc) but when comes to actually make a test...

Also I think that if people say the effect is cumulative, then one instrument makes the difference. I think if you threat drums or percussion section you have:
- big dynamic changes
- wide frequency range
- a change in drums sound has a dramatic effect over the mix.
Again, my comment wasn't directed at you personally and I'm sorry if sounded harsh to you, I just got tired of not seeing a test (like Flandersh linked in his comment) for several pages, so I did one (8 minutes of "effort").
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unrelated logic rant:
So, when you try the free version and doesn't sound good the answer is:
"you need the pro version, with 3rd party programs which don't work in free version"
But when you say "there is no A/B test" the answer is:
"but there is the free version, go try it"

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richinmusic - Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:34 pm

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That is key here. Sonically, it is hard to prove good or bad anything, this is art and is highly subjective. Any tool is more than worth it's price and hassle-factor if it does something that the user likes and can not do it better (in their own ears) than any other tool. Totally subjective, indeed.

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Cooker - Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:40 pm

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I can think of 2 librarys;

http://www.tmusicaudio.com/nebulaguitar.html

http://rhythminmind.net/STN/?page_id=3278

They don't fix anything but rather shape, though still has an "optional" effect to them but which plug-in doesn't? one is free and other is demo, doesn't hurt to try...

I think the beauty of the better known nebula stuff (eq's, tubes...) is actually noticeable when listening transients and thats why many fail to hear a difference. There is a static-sh coloration like other plug-ins make but the overall dynamic balance is also effected in a not always better but interesting way.

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richinmusic - Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:42 pm

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I apologize as well, I wasn't attacking you... ok, I kind of was...lol. So here's a formal apology.... But I checked out your comparison, and I don't hear too much of a difference, especially regarding "quality". But back when I was on the fence about Nebula, before I started investing in the endless 3rd party libraries, I took a very large and complex mix I was working on, and did my own full mix A/B comparison. The differences blew my mind, and I have never turned back. Is Nebula perfect? Hell no!! It's a pain in the butt, will destroy even an i7 if you are not careful, and I have had to completely redefine my work-flow AND pricing structure with clients. But as I said in my first post in this thread, I spent over 25 years in all analog audio, and before I started using Nebula, I was never happy with the results, even the really good stuff. But that's my eras and my taste. I agree with the post about Acustica's mode, I think that they want people to try it with an open mind, but they are not claiming that it is for everyone.
And about your other rant: I actually agree with you. The free version sucked on my system. I was convinced by a user on the Reaper forum that I had already trusted about other things, and I liked their ear and taste. But I have always said that their free system is a terrible advertisement. But many of the devs offer audio clips, and free demos that DO work in the free Nebula. But yeah, there is a certain element of a leap of faith involved. Not everyone will do that, but my music and my ears are glad that I did.

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bduffy - Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:44 pm

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Yeah, but I just don't think a week-long wait is acceptable business practice from any company - no matter how good the product. It's pretty insulting.

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richinmusic - Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:56 pm

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I can't defend them on that, but I need to ask; How did you submit the ser file? If you did it within the site, that almost always fails. There is a thread in there somewhere with an email address to send it to. Did you try posting on the forum? I have had to authorize a second and third computer, and I never waited more than a day or 2. I know that this is still unacceptable, but as long as you have made the move to try it, I can try to help you with this part.

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Cooker - Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:58 pm

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?

http://www.acustica-audio.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25500

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bduffy - Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:06 pm

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Thanks richinmusic.

A .SER file was never generated for me, at least as far as I can tell. I found an email thread from the last time I attempted to authorize Nebula, and he asked me to send him my Mac serial number. But then I noticed I still couldn't get the libraries to show up, so I expect the worst, yet again.

For the record, I emailed info{at}acustica, used the form on the site and posted on their forum. I'm not sure how much more one can be expected to do.

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bduffy - Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:06 pm

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Yeah. Like I said way back, I know someone's going to tell me to go search/post/PM in the forum, and I still insist that's unacceptable merely for registering, digging around forums, especially as it contradicts what they tell you do to in the FAQ!

Unless I've been flagged as spam, in which case, I apologize in advance. But I've posted on the forum and used their contact form - after doing what's precisely instructed on the site: "email us the serial".

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richinmusic - Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:13 pm

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I am on a PC, so my ability to help is probably limited. Try messaging Enrique or Antonello. Sorry I can't be of more help, I do understand your distaste a little better.

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richinmusic - Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:14 pm

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Cookers post was to show you that thread he linked to, for the Acustica site. It pertains to getting help.

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bduffy - Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:14 pm

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Yeah, thanks man. Appreciated.

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bduffy - Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:16 pm

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I know. I was just being sarcastic. Edited to a proper reply.

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bduffy - Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:47 pm

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Ah! A response in the forum...

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richinmusic - Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:36 pm

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Now I am curious; How have you emailed them your serial when you said that it never generated one? The "ser" file IS the serial, so maybe there is a hangup because they have never received the ser file to generate an authorization. But definitely email Enrique, he has always been pretty quick for me. I will send him a message from me and point him to this, maybe I can help.

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bduffy - Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:38 pm

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Thanks! I heard from someone on the forum. It just doesn't make sense, all this contradictory information from them; "send it here! Send it there! This email cancels out that email! This person is faster/slower!". I don't care: I paid for a product, let me f**king use it!

Sorry, patience: thin.

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richinmusic - Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:05 pm

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I PM-ed Enrique, so let's hope for some action!!

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bduffy - Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:23 pm

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Thanks man. I got a couple responses, then it went quiet. I guess they're crunching the numbers in their lair...

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enriquesilveti - Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:31 am

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Please bduffy contact me thru email to enrique.silveti AT acusticaudio.net or thru web form in http://www.acustica-audio.com/index.php?option=com_contact&view=contact&id=1&Itemid=95. I can not generate keys here but I can forward your email internally.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saludos,
Enrique Silveti
Acustica Audio technical support
www.acustica-audio.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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bduffy - Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:15 am

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Thanks Enrique, I received an email with the keys. You guys really, really, really need to reconsider this authorization scheme.

So it appears to be authorized now, but no libraries show up. Here we go again...

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jancivil - Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:15 am

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I'm grateful to see someone other than me had this occur! He's the nicest guy in the world but I don't have nearly the time for this kind of problem.

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bmanic - Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:38 am

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"Perls to swine.." saying comes to mind when it comes to audio examples that deal with subtlety on most forums.

People who just don't seem to get subtlety. If they can't bother checking the free version and making up their own conclusion then it's just not worth it because all discussions of subtle stuff (and I'm not talking about completely bogus placebo stuff.. but things you can actually measure with Christian Budde's VST analyzer) usually ends up in a complete clusterf!#"!#" of a thread.

I've given up on posting clearly subtle things after I posted the M15 tape machine example a few years ago and noticed most people didn't even hear the difference of the tape versus the clean AD/DA pass through..

Having said that, I'll try to remember to post some examples once I get back to work on thursday. The Nebula massive passive can be very easily A/B compared to the competition and it's definitely superior in it's basic sound. It might even be possible to show how it compresses or "strains" the signal when you hit it hard.

Cheers!
bManic

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bmanic - Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:54 am

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It's extremely convoluted. I agree. And I've criticized this part of the process (and the interface, and the communication and the whole running of the company) many times before.

There's a certain perseverance and a lot of reading of the forums that is needed to get it working, at least on windows. It's probably even worse on Mac.

.. but just for the EQs alone, it is worth it (you'll need to purchase some 3rd party libraries though) in my opinion. Just make sure you get libraries which represent the sample rate you work at. If you do 44.1kHz projects use libraries that use this sample rate because the conversion from one to another takes a loooooooooooooong time.. and with multiple nebula instances it can become a true nightmare.

Cheers!
bManic

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bduffy - Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:20 pm

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Thanks, b! It's all so deja vu, eh?

So I finally got it working (I had to go into the MAST page and change a parameter). I now see you can load presets via a drop-down menu, and they're organized more clearly, which is way nicer than before. I'll grab some of the demos from the third-party developers. So far, there are some things that sound nice in stock libraries, and some not-so-nice.

Were you talking about the stock Massive EQ that comes with it (Passive Eq WD 1T)? It's safe to drive the patches with the input level?

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bduffy - Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:15 pm

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Been playing with Nebula for awhile. I don't know...I hear some things that sound nice, and it's behaving much, much better than before in Cubase (even wrapped in 64-bit).

I haven't heard any compressors I like, apart from some tonal character imparted. I still hear a lot of transient artifacts, especially at high settings (I guess transparent compression-only with Nebula?), and time-based stuff was problematic (warbly, huge CPU spikes in reverbs). But I was playing with an exciter program I liked a lot, and a nice guitar preamp, some good tape stuff that was hard to match with software. So, I can see the appeal (once/if you get over the headaches).

Maybe I'm just not picky enough to be turned on by Nebula's subtle, subtle charms, but I'll try a full mix with it soon.

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sorohanro - Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:46 pm

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A/B mix then it's a must

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