KVR :: Effects » Native Instruments Reverb Classics (RC24 & RC48) [View Original Topic]
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xerxes[no] - Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:45 am
Check it out these two:
http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/effects/reverb-classics/
Three reverbs released in one day (PSP Pianoverb 2).
penguinfromdeep - Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:51 am
Whoa, getting really crowded in the reverb market. So they emulated the same lexicon units ... Hard to believe the 480 would beat the Relab one, but who knows
chokehold - Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:08 am
At 199€ it better be good.
Comes from Softube, so should be up to par with the TSAR.
(Pun not intended, don't be offended.)
electro - Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:16 am
penguinfromdeep wrote:
Whoa, getting really crowded in the reverb market. So they emulated the same lexicon units ... Hard to believe the 480 would beat the Relab one, but who knows
Relab boasts sample accuracy to the hardware 480L and a free license to any who can disprove it. Pretty bold IMO.
http://relab.dk/
aMUSEd - Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:19 am
Yeah but it's also $399 (intro price) and needs an iLock 2
xerxes[no] - Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:26 am
Just check out demoes. Now purchased. First no-brainer from NI for me in a while - sounds absolutely stunning. A tad pricey, but I think we do get very good bang for the buck here.
electro - Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:29 am
aMUSEd wrote:
Yeah but it's also $399 (intro price) and needs an iLock 2
I know the price is steep, but its really not your average plug. Last "perfect" hardware emulation I know of was the Artsacoustic Bigrock which was worth every penny.
Aiynzahev - Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:32 am
electro wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:
Yeah but it's also $399 (intro price) and needs an iLock 2
I know the price is steep, but its really not your average plug. Last "perfect" hardware emulation I know of was the Artsacoustic Bigrock.
Not only there, but it has a higher density mode that has to be heard. It surpasses the Original Unit it models.
I never liked Tsar, but these sound good from the demos I am listening too. Thy obviously deserve a spin!
Compyfox - Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:39 am
Can someone tell me why each reverb is about 240MB (Mac)/160MB (PC) in size compared to "what's out there"?
I sure as hell hope the HDD space is due to the license manager.
And am I getting this right that NI is jumping on yet another "emulation" bandwagon? Since GR5 it's gone this route. Competition to IKM/Nomad Factory much?
4damind - Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:49 am
The audio demos are nice. So much reverbs, so little time
zvenx - Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:55 am
They don't have all the algorithms of the originals but they sound amazingly good....and two for that price to me is great..
rsp
BERFAB - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:18 am
When is Komplete 9 coming?
Liero - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:22 am
With the current reverbs out there, TSAR is definitely _not_ in very good standing. So I hope they did a much better job on these, the competition is tough...
TheoM - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:22 am
penguinfromdeep wrote:
Whoa, getting really crowded in the reverb market. So they emulated the same lexicon units ... Hard to believe the 480 would beat the Relab one, but who knows
Already it's easy to see the NI has an easier GUI.. thankfully.
Also, it won't beat the relab, nothing will, but i bet it will be superb and come very close, and Ni have had a 50% sale on every single product in the history of their catalogue, so 99 euro vs six HUNDRED bucks is a big difference.
The days o expensive plugins (anything over 200) for me are over. There is no need.
TheoM - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:24 am
Oh just saw you get the 224 also.. this will be exciting to compare it to the UAD.
Now all we need is a stable reasonable priced emt 250 and emt 140 plate emu , and with slate VTM< basically the UAD no longer would have anything up it's sleeve we can't get in native
Sampleconstruct - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:39 am
RC 48 is fantastic, it reminds me so much of the good old days in the ECM studio...
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
audiosabre - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:40 am
Yeah another reverb! Hang on whilst I try and sound enthusiastic...
@ this price I'd rather get the Exponential PhoenixVerb. Not really comparable, but I honestly prefer the sound to that Lex sound. I AM A HERETIC!
I'll try the demo though, could totally blow my mind...
electro - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:48 am
TheoM wrote:
Oh just saw you get the 224 also.. this will be exciting to compare it to the UAD.
Now all we need is a stable reasonable priced emt 250 and emt 140 plate emu , and with slate VTM< basically the UAD no longer would have anything up it's sleeve we can't get in native
Now all we need is a stable reasonable priced emt 250 and emt 140 plate emu , and with slate VTM< basically the UAD no longer would have anything up it's sleeve we can't get in native
Empty Room System has had a native EMT 250 for over 2 years now.
The UAD has compressors and delays that native can't beat. Try the Neve 33609 bus compressor and the mkII 1176 collection.
Echoes in the Attic - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:50 am
How's the cpu usage? Will be tough to beat ValhallaVintageVerb on that front.
djanthonyw - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:59 am
electro wrote:
TheoM wrote:
Oh just saw you get the 224 also.. this will be exciting to compare it to the UAD.
Now all we need is a stable reasonable priced emt 250 and emt 140 plate emu , and with slate VTM< basically the UAD no longer would have anything up it's sleeve we can't get in native
Now all we need is a stable reasonable priced emt 250 and emt 140 plate emu , and with slate VTM< basically the UAD no longer would have anything up it's sleeve we can't get in native
Empty Room System has had a native EMT 250 for over 2 years now.
The UAD has compressors and delays that native can't beat. Try the Neve 33609 bus compressor and the mkII 1176 collection.
Native can't beat? It's all code. All of the UAD stuff could be ported to run on native processors and they would sound exactly the same. The processor used has nothing to do with the sound.
VitaminD - Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:03 am
There seems to be a lot of outside help for NI making effects plugins...
In any case.. Not sure what the Lexicon's sound like, but as a reverb, these new NI reverbs sound good to me (esp RC48). Wonder if this is more of what we'll see in Komplete 9 - more effects plugins than sound generators.
Cimbasso - Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:46 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
How's the cpu usage? Will be tough to beat ValhallaVintageVerb on that front.
Judging from the demos, they won't beat VeeThree on any front..orchestral and piano demos sound awful.
$100 VeeThree & Room bundle is more versatile, less costly and far more musical imo (after listening to the demos on NI site).
Caine123 - Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:54 am
anything what those plugins can do what valhalla plugins cant?
Elffin - Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:57 am
so whats free about the demo?
Sampleconstruct - Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:57 am
Caine123 wrote:
anything what those plugins can do what valhalla plugins cant?
In RC 48 you can spread out the early reflections graphically by dragging (4 of) them with the mouse, that also makes for some interesting FX patches and strange slapbacks.
Sampleconstruct - Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:01 am
Sampleconstruct wrote:
Caine123 wrote:
anything what those plugins can do what valhalla plugins cant?
In RC 48 you can spread out the early reflections graphically by dragging (4 of) them with the mouse, that also makes for some interesting FX patches and strange slapbacks.
Like this:
TheoM - Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:06 am
electro wrote:
TheoM wrote:
Oh just saw you get the 224 also.. this will be exciting to compare it to the UAD.
Now all we need is a stable reasonable priced emt 250 and emt 140 plate emu , and with slate VTM< basically the UAD no longer would have anything up it's sleeve we can't get in native
Now all we need is a stable reasonable priced emt 250 and emt 140 plate emu , and with slate VTM< basically the UAD no longer would have anything up it's sleeve we can't get in native
Empty Room System has had a native EMT 250 for over 2 years now.
The UAD has compressors and delays that native can't beat. Try the Neve 33609 bus compressor and the mkII 1176 collection.
ERS version is buggy on logic and the demo is giving me issues and the dev is hard to converse with.
yet i do love his chorus, it's my favourite chorus plugin of all time. (yes, MUCH better than the UAD dimension)
as far as "The UAD has compressors and delays that native can't beat. Try the Neve 33609 bus compressor and the mkII 1176 collection."
UM.. no. Bzzzz. Wrong answer.
Caine123 - Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:18 pm
Sampleconstruct wrote:
Caine123 wrote:
anything what those plugins can do what valhalla plugins cant?
In RC 48 you can spread out the early reflections graphically by dragging (4 of) them with the mouse, that also makes for some interesting FX patches and strange slapbacks.
Sampleconstruct wrote:
Caine123 wrote:
anything what those plugins can do what valhalla plugins cant?
In RC 48 you can spread out the early reflections graphically by dragging (4 of) them with the mouse, that also makes for some interesting FX patches and strange slapbacks.
thanks
Aiynzahev - Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:46 pm
Sampleconstruct wrote:
RC 48 is fantastic, it reminds me so much of the good old days in the ECM studio...
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
sounds SOOO good!
pinki - Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:03 pm
Dont want to be a heretic but I always thought the Lexicon 480 was the most over-rated, over-priced and badly designed reverb ever. Oh boy that LARC controller was so obnoxious.
For me the Lexicon 300 was way better.
olikana - Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:18 pm
excited but...hm 199$ for just the halls algos is everything but cheap.
i guess it will be another 199$ for "legendary plates"
and another 199$ for " legendeary chambers"and what not.
which could make it dearer than even the full lexicon pcm bundle (which afaik includes the 224 halls).
having said that ...
let's try it and see if i can live without it or not.
and the fact that it does not require ilok or dongle is a big plus.
EvilDragon - Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:20 pm
olikana wrote:
and the fact that it does not require ilok or dongle is a big plus.
+1
@midnight - Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:29 pm
NI always upping their game. They are quickly becoming the best one stop shop.
Brother Charles - Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:49 pm
Sampleconstruct wrote:
RC 48 is fantastic, it reminds me so much of the good old days in the ECM studio...
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
WOW! LL4 sounds great, and that verb was really, really good.
Sampleconstruct - Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:01 pm
Aiynzahev wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:
RC 48 is fantastic, it reminds me so much of the good old days in the ECM studio...
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
sounds SOOO good!
Thaaaanks
Sampleconstruct - Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:02 pm
Brother Charles wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:
RC 48 is fantastic, it reminds me so much of the good old days in the ECM studio...
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
WOW! LL4 sounds great, and that verb was really, really good.
Cheers
dr_After - Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:14 pm
Sampleconstruct wrote:
RC 48 is fantastic, it reminds me so much of the good old days in the ECM studio...
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
Great playing, great sound, great reverb
Sampleconstruct - Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:30 pm
dr_After wrote:
Sampleconstruct wrote:
RC 48 is fantastic, it reminds me so much of the good old days in the ECM studio...
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
Great playing, great sound, great reverb
Ta
electro - Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:55 pm
[quote="TheoM"][quote="electro"]
TheoM wrote:
yet i do love his chorus, it's my favourite chorus plugin of all time. (yes, MUCH better than the UAD dimension)
as far as "The UAD has compressors and delays that native can't beat. Try the Neve 33609 bus compressor and the mkII 1176 collection."
UM.. no. Bzzzz. Wrong answer.
as far as "The UAD has compressors and delays that native can't beat. Try the Neve 33609 bus compressor and the mkII 1176 collection."
UM.. no. Bzzzz. Wrong answer.
But you forgot to name the Native comps that take out 33609, Fatso, and 1176mkII. Where are they?
Haven't tried the ERS dimension, but it is supposed to be emulating the same hardware as the UAD so a comparison is fair.
@midnight - Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:24 pm
[quote="electro"][quote="TheoM"]
electro wrote:
TheoM wrote:
yet i do love his chorus, it's my favourite chorus plugin of all time. (yes, MUCH better than the UAD dimension)
as far as "The UAD has compressors and delays that native can't beat. Try the Neve 33609 bus compressor and the mkII 1176 collection."
UM.. no. Bzzzz. Wrong answer.
as far as "The UAD has compressors and delays that native can't beat. Try the Neve 33609 bus compressor and the mkII 1176 collection."
UM.. no. Bzzzz. Wrong answer.
But you forgot to name the Native comps that take out 33609, Fatso, and 1176mkII. Where are they?
Haven't tried the ERS dimension, but it is supposed to be emulating the same hardware as the UAD so a comparison is fair.
Try not to think about compressors like that in terms of which one can take out so and so.
electro - Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:27 pm
[quote="@midnight"][quote="electro"]
TheoM wrote:
electro wrote:
TheoM wrote:
yet i do love his chorus, it's my favourite chorus plugin of all time. (yes, MUCH better than the UAD dimension)
as far as "The UAD has compressors and delays that native can't beat. Try the Neve 33609 bus compressor and the mkII 1176 collection."
UM.. no. Bzzzz. Wrong answer.
as far as "The UAD has compressors and delays that native can't beat. Try the Neve 33609 bus compressor and the mkII 1176 collection."
UM.. no. Bzzzz. Wrong answer.
But you forgot to name the Native comps that take out 33609, Fatso, and 1176mkII. Where are they?
Haven't tried the ERS dimension, but it is supposed to be emulating the same hardware as the UAD so a comparison is fair.
Try not to think about compressors like that in terms of which one can take out so and so.
Fact is the afore mentioned UAD compressors are unrivalled.
Plake - Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:55 pm
[quote="electro"][quote="@midnight"]
electro wrote:
TheoM wrote:
electro wrote:
TheoM wrote:
yet i do love his chorus, it's my favourite chorus plugin of all time. (yes, MUCH better than the UAD dimension)
as far as "The UAD has compressors and delays that native can't beat. Try the Neve 33609 bus compressor and the mkII 1176 collection."
UM.. no. Bzzzz. Wrong answer.
as far as "The UAD has compressors and delays that native can't beat. Try the Neve 33609 bus compressor and the mkII 1176 collection."
UM.. no. Bzzzz. Wrong answer.
But you forgot to name the Native comps that take out 33609, Fatso, and 1176mkII. Where are they?
Haven't tried the ERS dimension, but it is supposed to be emulating the same hardware as the UAD so a comparison is fair.
Try not to think about compressors like that in terms of which one can take out so and so.
Fact is the afore mentioned UAD compressors are unrivalled.
What makes the 1176 emu so special & unique? I already stopped counting all the native emulations of this compressor
hibidy - Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:02 pm
BERFAB wrote:
When is Komplete 9 coming?
Here's some news on it.......
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5219038#5219038
hibidy - Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:05 pm
I'm just p'oed they haven't updated reflektor to native/non-GR
Will demo these later, hard to believe they will be anything over VVV
V0RT3X - Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:10 pm
LOL I love this
Shangsean - Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:16 pm
It's probably very good, but when I can get B2 for a similar price, it's not so enticing.
It certainly will be interesting to see what Komplete 9 includes though.
KevWestBeats - Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:25 pm
Sampleconstruct wrote:
RC 48 is fantastic, it reminds me so much of the good old days in the ECM studio...
Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
great sound lots of character Here is a little Impro with Lounge Lizard 4 processed by RC 48:
http://soundcloud.com/sampleconstruct/loung-lizard-4-meets-rc-48
hibidy - Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:47 pm
wow, how could anyone hate these!
@midnight - Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:38 pm
electro wrote:
Fact is the afore mentioned UAD compressors are unrivalled.
That is not a "fact" that is your opinion. Do you know what facts are? A fact is something that can not be argued.
For example, it is a fact that you need air to breathe. And heat to live. Without air and heat, you would die. 100% of the time.
All you need to do is open any compressor thread on any popular plugin forum to see that what you are stating is very much opinion. A lot of people prefer Waves and Softube stuff over UAD. Then there is Plugin Alliance (elysia/vertigo/brainworx) and Kush UBK-1 and Sknote, hell even some freeware like Molot (amazing compressor!). In fact I will state that in some ways, Molot at it's highest quality setting is technically better than UAD offers, since I'm pretty sure UAD doesn't have any compressors that are 16x oversampled. Molot @ 8/16x oversampling is like having a really nice hardware compressor in your computer, for free. No aliasing, completely analog like sound quality, and a really well tuned compression action.
audiosabre - Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:01 pm
Shall we take a look back at the TSAR-1 marketing blurb?
The TSAR-1 Reverb is not an emulation. It's not a stock design. It's not a static snapshot of a space. The TSAR-1 is a powerful, modern reverb algorithm. It's alive and vibrant, it's gentle and dreamy, and above all - it's natural and believable. The TSAR-1 is the better-sounding alternative to the established, traditional reverb products. At a fraction of the price.
Then NI twist their arm and they go against their own philosophy. I am amused, darlings
As for the verbs, they're very good. Exactly what I expected. Not really my cup of tea though, being under 30, and not nostalgic about the 'good old days' (no offence, I don't see nostalgia as a bad thing)
hibidy - Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:15 pm
I wonder when they will go on sale?
digitalboytn - Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:49 pm
hibidy wrote:
I wonder when they will go on sale?
I wonder if anyone here waxing so eloquently about these new reverbs actually got a NFR to help NI out a little ?
@midnight - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:04 pm
Shangsean wrote:
It's probably very good, but when I can get B2 for a similar price, it's not so enticing.
Does B2 even have anything to do with the classic Lexicon sound...?
hibidy - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:08 pm
digitalboytn wrote:
hibidy wrote:
I wonder when they will go on sale?
I wonder if anyone here waxing so eloquently about these new reverbs actually got a NFR to help NI out a little ?
I sure as hell didn't!
It's really quite gorgeous, well, both.
miedex - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:30 pm
They sound good. They sound great!
Don't like the cloudy displays at all, they draw my eyes away from the controls and generally look awkward. I know you can turn the scrolling display off but there will always be a little blob stuck to the left side of the display area. That kind of design choice makes me feel sick to my stomach if I think about it too much.
There is no way to set a default preset!!!!!!! wtf? I think any high end plugin should have a way to set default settings (see Voxengo). Give the user some control for gods sake.
ostfront - Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:44 pm
From the 24 page:
Quote:
Get instant pro sound in the blink of an eye - no expertise necessary.
Six controls, of which 3 for eq. Selling toys to the kids. Think I'll pass.
digitalboytn - Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:58 pm
hibidy wrote:
digitalboytn wrote:
hibidy wrote:
I wonder when they will go on sale?
I wonder if anyone here waxing so eloquently about these new reverbs actually got a NFR to help NI out a little ?
I sure as hell didn't!
It's really quite gorgeous, well, both.
I wasn't meaning you mr hibidy...
Keep your cash in de pocket and bring it out when they are doing one of their regular 50% off sales...
Not 50% off the effect - 50% off the price
hibidy - Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:19 am
I know you didn't mean me
I'ma have a tough time talking myself out of these 
I've been jamming for hours now and though VVV is terrific, these have something special
Luckily, tomorrow will be a fresh day of testing
Seaside Music - Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:34 am
I've only messed with the 24 for a bit but I'm REALLY liking it. The last thing I need is another reverb, but I'm quite impressed. Don't really need the 48 since I own LX480 complete, but the implementation of these is excellent.
EvilDragon - Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:30 am
Compyfox wrote:
Can someone tell me why each reverb is about 240MB (Mac)/160MB (PC) in size compared to "what's out there"?
The plugin is about 25 MB in size. That's about 20 MB for 32-bit VST, 25 MB for 64-bit VST, there are three AAX versions, each of which is from 20-30 MB, and there's RTAS as well.
Mac installers always have additional overhead because Apple.
keel - Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:38 am
24 is really, really good. One of the best reverb there. It's sound just like I want reverb to sound. Truly awesome. Great work softube / NI.
miedex - Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:47 am
Not sure I'm liking what the 24 does to get its stereo image. I noticed a little extra high end sparkle coming in on the right side so I started crossfading between L/R and it seems kind of a funky.
Cimbasso - Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:29 am
@midnight wrote:
Shangsean wrote:
It's probably very good, but when I can get B2 for a similar price, it's not so enticing.
Does B2 even have anything to do with the classic Lexicon sound...?
Also, B2 is like 10 times heavier on the CPU than RC 24/48 and Valhalla and PCM etc.
Well, I must admit that I didn't expect much after listening to those dreadful demos on the NI site. But they are pretty great and since I'm mainly working with scoring stuff, I prefer 48. Great GUI, natural, transparent sound. As good as Relab's plugin is..and much cheaper + doesn't require damn iLok.
Giusmex - Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:03 am
i really like how they sound; but they simply cost too much;
ill wait for the 50% discount period
Galbanum - Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:07 am
@midnight wrote:
Shangsean wrote:
It's probably very good, but when I can get B2 for a similar price, it's not so enticing.
Does B2 even have anything to do with the classic Lexicon sound...?
Thankfully no.
Not that I see anything wrong with "the lexicon sound" but the way I see it is if you want "the lexicon sound" you have about a billion options now. If you want the 2CAudio sound, you have only one...
Back in the "glory days" a studio might have a 480 and TC System 6000 and an Eventide 8000 etc. Today you can choose any one of the plethora of good Lex clones (or Lexicon itself), and a 2CAudio verb or two of your choice and cover a lot of ground...
Galbanum - Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:15 am
Cimbasso wrote:
Also, B2 is like 10 times heavier on the CPU than RC 24/48 and Valhalla and PCM etc.
Can be, true. Depends on the preset. Lowest CPU usage preset compared to highest might be approaching a factor of 1:200! Lowest will be below these other products (but lowest CPU usage presets are more geared towards delay FXs in our case). Highest will be MUCH higher, as you state. Average preset will be higher, agreed.
Our algs are simply more complex than the "nested allpass loop" structure used by Lex and clones. We use a modern approach, and achieve completely artifact-free behavior which remains uncommon even now based on my recent analysis...
4damind - Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:18 am
Galbanum wrote:
We use a modern approach, and achieve completely artifact-free behavior which remains uncommon even now based on my recent analysis...
Would you say this is also true with the newest reverbs eg. from Exponential Audio?
Galbanum - Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:27 am
4damind wrote:
Galbanum wrote:
We use a modern approach, and achieve completely artifact-free behavior which remains uncommon even now based on my recent analysis...
Would you say this is also true with the newest reverbs eg. from Exponential Audio?
I would rather not talk about other company's specific products out of respect for them and general politeness given my understanding of the tremendous amount of work that goes into bringing a reverb plug-in to market...
Many of the recent products have some cool design features. It's a cool time for reverbs in general.
xerxes[no] - Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:21 am
Galbanum wrote:
4damind wrote:
Galbanum wrote:
We use a modern approach, and achieve completely artifact-free behavior which remains uncommon even now based on my recent analysis...
Would you say this is also true with the newest reverbs eg. from Exponential Audio?
I would rather not talk about other company's specific products out of respect for them and general politeness given my understanding of the tremendous amount of work that goes into bringing a reverb plug-in to market...
Many of the recent products have some cool design features. It's a cool time for reverbs in general.
Indeed it is! I really do love my Aether.. and B2 also. And I like the Valhalla plugs also. But I did not own any of the other Lex specific plugins, and I am really really loving the sound of these two badboys. I know this is really dumb to say because I wake up with far too much gas often.. but I feel pretty much covered as far as reverbs go now.
Good work Softtube and NI!
sergiofrias - Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:21 pm
Here is a little tip to emulate the exact frequency response of the original Lexicon 224 with valhalla vintageverb (or any other reverb emulation plugin).
As you probably know, the audio bandwidth of the original 224 was around 8kHz (due to 20kHz sampling rate).after analyzing the NI RC 24 with voxengo spam,i found out that the bandwith was at 8.2 khz ,valhalla vintageverb is at 11.2 khz,so to emulate that response just use voxengo curveEQ or any other eq with a hard cutoff (as shown in the image below)at 8.2 khz.
My audio tests (after carefully placing the freq. crossovers and decay times at the low/medium/high frequencies) between valhalla vintageverb (bright hall algo.)and NI RC 24 (hall algo.)was almost identical.
hibidy - Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:35 pm
Well VVV doesn't exactly suck
I don't know, I really have no need for verbs other than to make huge overthetop guitar mega 80's sounds to play the same 3 chords over, but man, these are absolutely fantastic for that!
TheoM - Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:42 pm
ok these sounds stunning. Will not go much more into it, but they are highly on my list.
valhallasound - Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:04 pm
sergiofrias wrote:
Here is a little tip to emulate the exact frequency response of the original Lexicon 224 with valhalla vintageverb (or any other reverb emulation plugin).
As you probably know, the audio bandwidth of the original 224 was around 8kHz (due to 20kHz sampling rate).after analyzing the NI RC 24 with voxengo spam,i found out that the bandwith was at 8.2 khz ,valhalla vintageverb is at 11.2 khz,so to emulate that response just use voxengo curveEQ or any other eq with a hard cutoff (as shown in the image below)at 8.2 khz.
My audio tests (after carefully placing the freq. crossovers and decay times at the low/medium/high frequencies) between valhalla vintageverb (bright hall algo.)and NI RC 24 (hall algo.)was almost identical.
As you probably know, the audio bandwidth of the original 224 was around 8kHz (due to 20kHz sampling rate).after analyzing the NI RC 24 with voxengo spam,i found out that the bandwith was at 8.2 khz ,valhalla vintageverb is at 11.2 khz,so to emulate that response just use voxengo curveEQ or any other eq with a hard cutoff (as shown in the image below)at 8.2 khz.
My audio tests (after carefully placing the freq. crossovers and decay times at the low/medium/high frequencies) between valhalla vintageverb (bright hall algo.)and NI RC 24 (hall algo.)was almost identical.
Interesting. To say the least.
Sean Costello
Liero - Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:24 pm
sergiofrias wrote:
... was almost identical.
Can you please put this into more quantifiable language? To what dbFS level does a comparison signal null?
I ask because I've noticed that there are people here who can't hear a difference between... well, anything.
EDIT = Just by quickly testing this by ear, I can't get VVV to sound anywhere near "identical" to the RC24.
hibidy - Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:27 pm
I was wondering when this was going to happen and now it's going to take the fun out demoing these
Someone is going to come up with all the down things about them "technically" instead of the joy of just listening to them Cimbasso - Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:43 pm
I'd love to hear audio comparison done with VeeThree, LC 24/48, PCM and LX480.
Seaside Music - Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:01 pm
Over at GS, Casey Dowdell from Bricasti referred to these as "spot on" including the modulation on the 24. That's as good as any endorsement can get for me. The ANAL-yzer nurds can just play with their research and data tools. I'll be making music with ALL of these great tools; Valhalla, Relab, NI.
sergiofrias - Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:02 pm
Liero wrote:
sergiofrias wrote:
... was almost identical.
Can you please put this into more quantifiable language? To what dbFS level does a comparison signal null?
I ask because I've noticed that there are people here who can't hear a difference between... well, anything.
EDIT = Just by quickly testing this by ear, I can't get VVV to sound anywhere near "identical" to the RC24.
to be completely identical the algorithm would have to be the same,(same early reflections,or late reflections,decay time,same crossover slopes etc)...
for this test i disabled the early reflection on Valhalla,and used the voxengo curveEQ (as i described on my previous post)
Hear the test on soundcloud:
https://soundcloud.com/sergiofrias/valhalla-vs-rc-24
@midnight - Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:29 pm
Why didn't they put the Plate algorithms?
hibidy - Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:30 pm
So now I'm at the stage where I'm just kinda randomly a/b'ing and so far the conclusion is WANT! But, what keep telling myself is why when VVV sounds great and it's paid for
I think I'm going to sell room though to help fund this. Not selling VVV.......yet
Liero - Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:17 pm
I've been AB'ing against the lexicon native's (which are cheaper now) and am not that impressed with the NI offerings, particularly the RC48 doesn't sound as "rich" to me as the LXP hall which I have...
hibidy - Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:21 pm
Yeah, but no dongle!
I'll never try any of those ilok2 verbs so I'm stuck with native city.
jalcide - Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:59 pm
Liero wrote:
I've been AB'ing against the lexicon native's (which are cheaper now) and am not that impressed with the NI offerings, particularly the RC48 doesn't sound as "rich" to me as the LXP hall which I have...
Agreed. But, of course, the RC48 is a 480L emulation and therefore based on 1986 algorithms. The LXP and PCM are based on their more modern algs, and enjoy almost 30 years of technical improvements. So, it's most likely the 480L we're not as impressed with.
Actually, when you consider how old the 480L is, it's pretty impressive that it holds up as well as it does to Lexicon's current flagship products. They kinda nailed it.
But yeah, I agree. I compared the the PCM Native Random Hall Large to the RC48's and the PCM is much more 3d, lively and full of subtle motion. That said, I think the RC48 has just about as much "lushness" and smoothness going for it.
I'd be interested to hear a shootout between the RC48, 480LX and a real 480L.
I think I still want a 480L and even a 224 emulation for times where more 2d might be desirable. I've got some theories I'm going to be putting to the test, regarding that. Not sure yet.
TheoM - Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:00 pm
don't worry hibidy the NI ones sound just as good as LXP in fact they are bigger and richer.. they are different.. they are specific emulations, lxp largely isn't.
grymmjack - Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:26 pm
hibidy wrote:
So now I'm at the stage where I'm just kinda randomly a/b'ing and so far the conclusion is WANT! But, what keep telling myself is why when VVV sounds great and it's paid for
I think I'm going to sell room though to help fund this. Not selling VVV.......yet
I think I'm going to sell room though to help fund this. Not selling VVV.......yet
It's better hibidy? Seriously? ValhallaDSP makes some amazing plug-ins. Good CPU use, awesome UI, extremely generous price... Are you a reverb aficionado?
The only expertise I wield with this stuff is I had a Lexicon MPX-1 (which had a pretty cool Taj Mahal preset )) and meh, it was great sounding but I don't honestly feel ValhallaDSP is not just as good as that and in the mix, I can't tell shit from shinola anyway. hibidy - Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:21 pm
grymmjack wrote:
hibidy wrote:
So now I'm at the stage where I'm just kinda randomly a/b'ing and so far the conclusion is WANT! But, what keep telling myself is why when VVV sounds great and it's paid for
I think I'm going to sell room though to help fund this. Not selling VVV.......yet
I think I'm going to sell room though to help fund this. Not selling VVV.......yet
It's better hibidy? Seriously? ValhallaDSP makes some amazing plug-ins. Good CPU use, awesome UI, extremely generous price... Are you a reverb aficionado?
The only expertise I wield with this stuff is I had a Lexicon MPX-1 (which had a pretty cool Taj Mahal preset )) and meh, it was great sounding but I don't honestly feel ValhallaDSP is not just as good as that and in the mix, I can't tell shit from shinola anyway.Don't get me wrong, there is NOTHING wrong with valhalla stuff!
Here's what I've noticed. What putting these two on a buss and playing guitar (which I do more than anything else, poorly, but that is what I do the most
) I hear something that is even more magical than VVV.
Now, I don't use dongles, and don't have access to some of those other highly coveted verbs. But there is something about these that are instantly credible to my ears. I dunno, I'm still going to test these out a while (there is no hurry, no special offer or anything) but so far it's really enjoyable to my ears.
djanthonyw - Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:36 pm
I was not impressed by these at all, VintageVerb blows these away.
KevWestBeats - Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:37 pm
djanthonyw wrote:
I was not impressed by these at all, VintageVerb blows these away.
Agreed. I was going to be post that these are just over priced. They sound good but for the price the Vahalla and CSR lines are better bang for your buck imo. hibidy - Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:42 pm
TheoM wrote:
don't worry hibidy the NI ones sound just as good as LXP in fact they are bigger and richer.. they are different.. they are specific emulations, lxp largely isn't.
Yeah, I feel the two are TOTALLY different. But really good in their own way.
@480 (older): Interesting because to my ears, it has the "wider" more "now" sound
Ugggggggggg, everyone is different
hibidy - Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:43 pm
djanthonyw wrote:
I was not impressed by these at all, VintageVerb blows these away.
I wish I felt that way
EDIT: not that I don't feel VVV doesn't hold it's own, but blown away is not how I feel at all.
Could it be levels? You know that these have an options tab with in/out volume right? I've noticed that depending on what the settings are the NI's have to be "fed" more to be at the volume level most VVV settings are.
fluxmind - Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:18 am
I've a fetish for Mono, so no tail width control sucks
Lotuzia - Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:49 am
hibidy wrote:
djanthonyw wrote:
I was not impressed by these at all, VintageVerb blows these away.
I wish I felt that way
EDIT: not that I don't feel VVV doesn't hold it's own, but blown away is not how I feel at all.
Could it be levels? You know that these have an options tab with in/out volume right? I've noticed that depending on what the settings are the NI's have to be "fed" more to be at the volume level most VVV settings are.
Thats also my impression. You can feed them more, wich to me means that the blend, transparency and glue factor is good.
Tbh I found the NIs quite pleasant, though less wowing that the Exponential Audio, Relab and Lexicon themseleves units. A bit less depth and blend factor maybe, but I only tested them a couple hours. Less versatile also, and less controls than on some other reverbs. I wonder if NI doesnt intend to provide other models in the future if their first shoot encounters success, meaning a kind of "reverb suite", and eventually that the price/versatility ratio might be less entertaining in the end. Just thoughts here, nothing to really back up this idea actually.
Imho they could be atm one of the good choices for those who want to avoid dongles and desire a nice algo reverb with a Lexicon "vibe". ( Eventually the best, but this is only imho, after few tests, and I did not test all reberbs as well, so you can take this with a pinch of salt )
hibidy - Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:11 pm
I can't try those others.
@midnight - Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:23 pm
why didnt they put the plate and concert hall algorithms?
Sequent - Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:31 pm
@midnight wrote:
why didnt they put the plate and concert hall algorithms?
Maybe waiting to make it another product.
ostfront - Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:27 pm
Sequent wrote:
@midnight wrote:
why didnt they put the plate and concert hall algorithms?
Maybe waiting to make it another product.
Paid updates? Other products wouldn't really make sense, as these are 24/48 algos.
hibidy - Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:47 pm
No, I can see the flash screen at NI now
@midnight - Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:47 pm
Native Instruments needs to release something that competes with this for me to be impressed:
http://www.uaudio.com/store/reverbs/lexicon-224.html
See how many algorithms that has?
jalcide - Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:50 pm
[quote="Sequent"]
@midnight wrote:
why didnt they put the plate and concert hall algorithms?
Yeah, it's strange. I get that the development time required + a price point most users would be willing to pay might have equaled what we got -- halls. But, from another speculative viewpoint, once you have the thing built for one alg., adding a few more might be easier -- and in a non-linear way. Like, once the printer is setup for 100 business cards, printing 1000 is actually not that much more work.
This probably isn't the case, but if it is, then it might feel to some like the company abandoned its own product, midway.
It's probably just more work than a 199 price point would cover, so they limited the scope.
To be fair, Lexicon PCM is almost twice (with discounts). LX480 lite (random hall only) was 200; full version, 300 more. So, it's pretty competitive -- we get two 480L AND 224 halls for 199.
But yeah, plate would have sealed the deal for me. Mostly because, in this case, it's more about owning the entire heritage of these devices than it is about achieving a good sound (that we can get from so many different venues). I would have paid more for a full, uncompromising 480L.
@midnight - Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:53 pm
Yeah, I'm not going to buy it when it's just 3 algorithms, all room/hall.
The 224 plate is one of the most important reverb sounds when it comes to these things. The halls are great what I am really after is the plates.
The UAD 224xl wipes the floor with this offering. But I'm not buying into that system, even if it does use the original 224 algorithms.