KVR :: Instruments » Sound Character Of Diva [View Original Topic]
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daExpert - Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:22 am
I hear people rave about how awesome Diva is and I just don't see it. It's a nice synth but I feel that it has some weaknesses.
I find it sounds somewhat harsh in the higher frequencies, it's an unpleasant harshness that neither zebra or ace have.
The filters have some nice warmth to them, but the front to back depth is just not there. When you sweep the filters on the KLAE MS-20 or V-Station there is a front to back sensation of the sound jumping out at you, whereas in Diva the sound stays flat and 2-dimensional, regardless of the interesting warmth and harmonics going on.
The oscillators by themselves have a thinness in the upper registers.
For the sound it gives you it uses up rather large amounts of CPU.
Maybe this post will trigger some new ideas and thoughts. God bless.
EvilDragon - Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:42 am
You might be alone (or in a very thin minority) with those thoughts.
Numanoid - Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:54 am
daExpert wrote:
Maybe this post will trigger some new ideas and thoughts. God bless.
The only conclusion I make of your posting is:
a) You want to create a commotion
b) Your rig isn't up to scratch
c) You need to make a doctor appointment to check your hearing
d) All of the above
The conclusion of the lengthy test in Sound on Sound is that Diva is startlingly good.
I'll take their word over yours any day.
djanthonyw - Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:58 am
If anything sounds harsh out of Diva, Zebra, or ACE, I would definitely say it's ACE. Zebra is the thin one. Diva is 'just right'.
http://www.anthonywebster.com/audio/diva_strobe.mp3
daExpert - Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:28 am
I hear the harshness more on certain sounds than others, if you lower the low-pass filter enough you can mask the harshness pretty well.
But when I play more aggressive lead sounds in Legacy Cell, V-station, and Dune, there isn't the tinnyness in the upper-frequencies that Diva has. On that sound demo when the filter was raised, you could definitely hear the harshness a bit that you wouldn't hear on other synths.
You can try to EQ it out, but it doesn't really work because then your sound becomes fundamentally different and it isn't just at one narrow frequency. I'd say it's centered around 6 kilohertz but EQ doesn't really eliminate it. In other synths the harshness isn't there to begin with.
Diva does sound quite good and is a valuable tool for the toolbox. But does it sound a lot better than the very best virtual analogs? IMO, not really.
djanthonyw - Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:32 am
daExpert wrote:
But does it sound a lot better than the very best virtual analogs?
Yes, surpasses them, and competes nicely with real analogs. 3ee - Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:17 am
djanthonyw wrote:
If anything sounds harsh out of Diva, Zebra, or ACE, I would definitely say it's ACE. Zebra is the thin one. Diva is 'just right'.
Zebra sounds thin?
how much did you spend feeding her?
but 1st we got to define terms, terms like harshness and warmth.
daExpert, can you please describe (with examples if possible) what do you mean by those terms?
ariston - Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:26 am
It's really a waste of time to discuss how things sound, because we don't share the same pair of ears. It might be interesting to discover that not many people share your opinion, though. This would open up several possibilities:
- maybe your setup is at fault (bad converters, bad monitoring, whatever).
- maybe your "tinny" is my "crystal clear".
- maybe you just happen to like the sound of other VAs better
- maybe you're desperately trying to find fault with something because it is supposedly "hyped"... you know, going the other way for the hell of it. (I think this happens a lot, really. I know I've done it. There's a nice German word for that phenomenon, it's called "Trotz" - "defiance" is the translation, but it doesn't quite nail the meaning)
- maybe your initial post is pure flame bait, because I don't know what you're expecting. Do you want us to show you you're wrong by telling you so? Will that change your opinion? Do you think you'll change our opinion? Do you think Urs will go "by Jove, he's right! I'll get to coding straight away! How come no one's noticed this before!"?
As far as triggering new ideas and thoughts - good luck with that. All I get are old ideas and nasty thoughts.
~Pd~ - Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:32 am
The harsh sound I've come to associate with Diva is endless petty bickering.
EvilDragon - Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:37 am
~Pd~ wrote:
The harsh sound I've come to associate with Diva is endless petty bickering.
Pretty much, yes.
tehlord - Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:47 am
izonin - Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:54 am
daExpert wrote:
I hear the harshness more on certain sounds than others, if you lower the low-pass filter enough you can mask the harshness pretty well.
The harshness goes away when you render at higher sampling rates. Try both 96 and 192kHz.
Ingonator - Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:09 am
izonin wrote:
daExpert wrote:
I hear the harshness more on certain sounds than others, if you lower the low-pass filter enough you can mask the harshness pretty well.
The harshness goes away when you render at higher sampling rates. Try both 96 and 192kHz.
Or try using a 32-bit OS. Some people say this sounds more analog...
Ingo
hakey - Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:45 am
Quote:
What function do such reviews fulfil these days?
Download the demo. Try the synth.
Numanoid - Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:04 am
hakey wrote:
Quote:
What function do such reviews fulfil these days?
Download the demo. Try the synth.
OK, lets say I download a plugin, I don't get the sound that I want from it straight away, and thus make a quick conclusion that it's a crap plugin, which sounds thin.
What you must understand is that people writing for such magazines as Sound on Sound have expert knowledge, and thus are much more capable to make a general conclusion about an instrument than either you or I.
The guy reviewing Diva has been producing and making records for over 30 years.
It has nothing to do about believing blindly in authority, but about taking sound advice from craftsmen.
hakey - Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:28 am
Numanoid wrote:
What you must understand
"you must understand"!
Numanoid - Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:32 am
hakey wrote:
Numanoid wrote:
What you must understand
"you must understand"!
OK, let's try to rephrase that shall we, "what you must try to understand"
Feeling better then?
hakey - Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:37 am
Numanoid wrote:
let's try to rephrase that shall we, "what you must try to understand"
tone down the silly rhetoric - why must I try?
FeelingMachine - Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:41 am
Did they already invent jokes about the carbon footprints of threads ?
Synthbuilder - Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:42 am
Numanoid wrote:
The guy reviewing Diva has been producing and making records for over 30 years.
That would be my fault. I told Paul to ask for that review. I was so taken with the sound of DIVA I thought that he should review it for SOS. Thankfully, he liked as much as I did.
Numanoid - Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:45 am
hakey wrote:
tone down the silly rhetoric - why must I try?
I forgot that you are snowed in, metaphorically
Numanoid - Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:51 am
Synthbuilder wrote:
Numanoid wrote:
The guy reviewing Diva has been producing and making records for over 30 years.
That would be my fault. I told Paul to ask for that review. I was so taken with the sound of DIVA I thought that he should review it for SOS. Thankfully, he liked as much as I did.
OK so you know the reviewer. Can you testify that he knows analogue synths inside and out, and thus is more capable of making a sound judgment about Diva's sound quality, rather than newbies like me or others who have been playing with plugins just a couple of years or so.
That is the point I'm trying to make, about taking note of the knowledge of expert users.
hakey - Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:59 am
Numanoid wrote:
hakey wrote:
tone down the silly rhetoric - why must I try?
I forgot that you are snowed in, metaphorically
metaphorically?
DHR53 - Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:02 pm
I use Zebra in everything and I can use like 10 of em' So it wouldn't matter how amazing Diva is I'd take Zebra for that reason alone. But Zebra also sounds great so I'm waiting until Diva gets an arp, or I get a new computer... whichever comes first!
Synthbuilder - Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:11 pm
Numanoid wrote:
Can you testify that he knows analogue synths inside and out, and thus is more capable of making a sound judgment about Diva's sound quality, rather than newbies like me or others who have been playing with plugins just a couple of years or so.
Paul's been playing synths for well over 30 years. He knows his stuff alright. I like to think that I do too.
But that doesn't mean that I think DIVA is a 100% exact analogue emulation. It's not. But it sure as heck gets as close as need it to for the sort of patches I do on it.
hakey - Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:37 pm
Whilst you're here Synthbuidler, settle an argument: what was the weather doing in the north Pennines yesterday? Was the road to Alston open?
vurt - Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:47 pm
was snowing all over the north yesterday, dunno about road closures though, i stayed in.
Urs - Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:58 pm
Synthbuilder wrote:
Numanoid wrote:
The guy reviewing Diva has been producing and making records for over 30 years.
That would be my fault. I told Paul to ask for that review. I was so taken with the sound of DIVA I thought that he should review it for SOS. Thankfully, he liked as much as I did.
Actually, Paul was quite sceptical before the review. Some comments on Facebook suggest that he hadn't had any high hopes, he even disliked the whole concept of Diva. When I heard that he'd write a review, I almost fainted. Thus I was *very* happy when his review turned out to be positive.
vurt - Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:00 pm
its like chocolate, for the ears. from what ive heard.
analoguesamples909 - Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:03 pm
daExpert wrote:
I hear people rave about how awesome Diva is and I just don't see it. It's a nice synth but I feel that it has some weaknesses.
I find it sounds somewhat harsh in the higher frequencies, it's an unpleasant harshness that neither zebra or ace have.
The filters have some nice warmth to them, but the front to back depth is just not there. When you sweep the filters on the KLAE MS-20 or V-Station there is a front to back sensation of the sound jumping out at you, whereas in Diva the sound stays flat and 2-dimensional, regardless of the interesting warmth and harmonics going on.
The oscillators by themselves have a thinness in the upper registers.
For the sound it gives you it uses up rather large amounts of CPU.
Maybe this post will trigger some new ideas and thoughts. God bless.
I find it sounds somewhat harsh in the higher frequencies, it's an unpleasant harshness that neither zebra or ace have.
The filters have some nice warmth to them, but the front to back depth is just not there. When you sweep the filters on the KLAE MS-20 or V-Station there is a front to back sensation of the sound jumping out at you, whereas in Diva the sound stays flat and 2-dimensional, regardless of the interesting warmth and harmonics going on.
The oscillators by themselves have a thinness in the upper registers.
For the sound it gives you it uses up rather large amounts of CPU.
Maybe this post will trigger some new ideas and thoughts. God bless.
I have posted elsewhere that it does sound quite strident in the high freq. On the flipside - it is one of the few synths that captures the brightness of an analogue oscillator - and to do that - I think you need to oversample. Hence the CPU cost.
However - I feel some of the harsh high end is more to do with the fact that perhaps a high amount of high freq energy can sound harsh if it is quite static. So unlike an analogue high end - where there is some movement - Diva I suspect is quite uniform being a digital model.
Personally I feel that Diva filters are excellent. Very accurate - however as I also wrote elsewhere I feel there is some small thing missing which is again a lack of something - maybe dynamics or saturation - that means the sound is a bit muted when the cutoff is closed...
Not sure about the front to back depth issue you mention...I wonder if it is due to the fact that sometimes there is a volume change which means the sound is slightly quieter - making it not 'jump out' as much...
rouge - Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:12 pm
daExpert wrote:
I hear people rave about how awesome Diva is and I just don't see it. It's a nice synth but I feel that it has some weaknesses.
I find it sounds somewhat harsh in the higher frequencies, it's an unpleasant harshness that neither zebra or ace have.
The filters have some nice warmth to them, but the front to back depth is just not there. When you sweep the filters on the KLAE MS-20 or V-Station there is a front to back sensation of the sound jumping out at you, whereas in Diva the sound stays flat and 2-dimensional, regardless of the interesting warmth and harmonics going on.
The oscillators by themselves have a thinness in the upper registers.
For the sound it gives you it uses up rather large amounts of CPU.
Maybe this post will trigger some new ideas and thoughts. God bless.
I find it sounds somewhat harsh in the higher frequencies, it's an unpleasant harshness that neither zebra or ace have.
The filters have some nice warmth to them, but the front to back depth is just not there. When you sweep the filters on the KLAE MS-20 or V-Station there is a front to back sensation of the sound jumping out at you, whereas in Diva the sound stays flat and 2-dimensional, regardless of the interesting warmth and harmonics going on.
The oscillators by themselves have a thinness in the upper registers.
For the sound it gives you it uses up rather large amounts of CPU.
Maybe this post will trigger some new ideas and thoughts. God bless.
How old are you? If you don't mind me asking... I think this maybe a case of your ears being more accustom to plugins and VA's. Have you ever owned an analog synth? The harshness you describe others may call presence when referring to the sound of analogs.
analoguesamples909 - Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:14 pm
Synthbuilder wrote:
Numanoid wrote:
The guy reviewing Diva has been producing and making records for over 30 years.
That would be my fault. I told Paul to ask for that review. I was so taken with the sound of DIVA I thought that he should review it for SOS. Thankfully, he liked as much as I did.
cool - I 'think' this is Tony Allgood of Oakley. I have to admit I really wish Oakley would do a desktop monosynth - it seemed like there was a rack synth on the cards for a while...but it never happend...
Oakley Osc and Filters sound like real analogue gear should IMO and its way more affordable than for example Macbeth. Anyone who makes great sounding gear that is also affordable - gets major props from me....please tony consider a small format monosynth - new analogue era!
Anyway - praise for Diva from TA - is praise indeed.
daExpert - Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:35 pm
analoguesamples909 wrote:
daExpert wrote:
I hear people rave about how awesome Diva is and I just don't see it. It's a nice synth but I feel that it has some weaknesses.
I find it sounds somewhat harsh in the higher frequencies, it's an unpleasant harshness that neither zebra or ace have.
The filters have some nice warmth to them, but the front to back depth is just not there. When you sweep the filters on the KLAE MS-20 or V-Station there is a front to back sensation of the sound jumping out at you, whereas in Diva the sound stays flat and 2-dimensional, regardless of the interesting warmth and harmonics going on.
The oscillators by themselves have a thinness in the upper registers.
For the sound it gives you it uses up rather large amounts of CPU.
Maybe this post will trigger some new ideas and thoughts. God bless.
I find it sounds somewhat harsh in the higher frequencies, it's an unpleasant harshness that neither zebra or ace have.
The filters have some nice warmth to them, but the front to back depth is just not there. When you sweep the filters on the KLAE MS-20 or V-Station there is a front to back sensation of the sound jumping out at you, whereas in Diva the sound stays flat and 2-dimensional, regardless of the interesting warmth and harmonics going on.
The oscillators by themselves have a thinness in the upper registers.
For the sound it gives you it uses up rather large amounts of CPU.
Maybe this post will trigger some new ideas and thoughts. God bless.
I have posted elsewhere that it does sound quite strident in the high freq. On the flipside - it is one of the few synths that captures the brightness of an analogue oscillator - and to do that - I think you need to oversample. Hence the CPU cost.
However - I feel some of the harsh high end is more to do with the fact that perhaps a high amount of high freq energy can sound harsh if it is quite static. So unlike an analogue high end - where there is some movement - Diva I suspect is quite uniform being a digital model.
Personally I feel that Diva filters are excellent. Very accurate - however as I also wrote elsewhere I feel there is some small thing missing which is again a lack of something - maybe dynamics or saturation - that means the sound is a bit muted when the cutoff is closed...
Not sure about the front to back depth issue you mention...I wonder if it is due to the fact that sometimes there is a volume change which means the sound is slightly quieter - making it not 'jump out' as much...
Well the front to back depth is a somewhat subtle thing. I might describe more as a punchiness, fullness, or roundness. Diva has some nice warmth, harmonics, and smoothness in the lower frequencies. But on a lot of sounds those high frequencies seem to have a more harsh, brittle quality. This could probably be interpreted as warmth or punch by some people.
I do think Diva has a lot of warmth, harmonics, brightness, and clarity. But it presents these sonic qualities in a slightly harsh, brittle way. The harshness might even be more accurate depending on what synths you are emulating.
MickGael - Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:52 pm
The first rule of Fight Club is: You do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: You do not speak ill of Diva.
OzWozEre - Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:58 pm
MickGael wrote:
The first rule of Fight Club is: You do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: You do not speak ill of Diva.
Yeah, I've noticed this cult worship about Diva, which is why I think folks are trying to assertain "why".
Tell me, would this Diva be held in the same high-regard if it was bought and offered by NI and dumped in its $500 Komplete bundle?
That's what I wanna know.
Fred_Abstract - Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:59 pm
i wish the sound was more raw,i don't know if it's in my head but i find the oscs to have something i ear in all uhe synths
djanthonyw - Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:13 pm
OzWozEre wrote:
MickGael wrote:
The first rule of Fight Club is: You do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: You do not speak ill of Diva.
Yeah, I've noticed this cult worship about Diva, which is why I think folks are trying to assertain "why".
Tell me, would this Diva be held in the same high-regard if it was bought and offered by NI and dumped in its $500 Komplete bundle?
That's what I wanna know.
Yes, but I don't see that happening considering NI has some of the most 'digital' sounding products, aside from what Softube made for them.
djanthonyw - Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:15 pm
Fred_Abstract wrote:
i wish the sound was more raw,i don't know if it's in my head but i find the oscs to have something i ear in all uhe synths
I never liked the sound of any of the other u-he synths, but Diva is what got me. So I don't think it sounds like any of the others.
analoguesamples909 - Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:17 pm
daExpert wrote:
But on a lot of sounds those high frequencies seem to have a more harsh, brittle quality. This could probably be interpreted as warmth or punch by some people.
I do think Diva has a lot of warmth, harmonics, brightness, and clarity. But it presents these sonic qualities in a slightly harsh, brittle way. The harshness might even be more accurate depending on what synths you are emulating.
I do think Diva has a lot of warmth, harmonics, brightness, and clarity. But it presents these sonic qualities in a slightly harsh, brittle way. The harshness might even be more accurate depending on what synths you are emulating.
it sounds like we are partly in agreement - in that Diva has what you call a brittle quality to it - but for me also I find the high end a bit hard sounding. I dont feel Diva is that warm to be honest - in a way I think it takes a lot of the analogue sound - but without the warmth. Warmth for me is not a lack of high end - analogue synths often have plenty of high end - some people call it 'sizzle' - but the word sizzle infers movement. If you dont have movement in the high end I think it becomes harsh...
Nightpolymath - Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:31 pm
[quote="OzWozEre"]
MickGael wrote:
Tell me, would this Diva be held in the same high-regard if it was bought and offered by NI and dumped in its $500 Komplete bundle?
That's what I wanna know.
That's what I wanna know.
Oh man, most definitely. All they need to do is get Skrillex to devise some wub, wub, wub sounds for it and sales will multiply overnight. Diva bass wobble tutorials will inundate Youtube.
Urs - Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:49 pm
OzWozEre wrote:
MickGael wrote:
The first rule of Fight Club is: You do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: You do not speak ill of Diva.
Yeah, I've noticed this cult worship about Diva, which is why I think folks are trying to assertain "why".
For me the "why" is, why can't people accept that Diva does the trick. The models we used behave indistinguishably close to the reference hardware we have, but we added bigger ranges of control and features not found in those vintage synths.
It's been a shitload of work and a massive investment. Buying and servicing the reference hardware is tens of thousands alone.
When then someone comes along like the OP and says Diva doesn't do anything for him, then, well, a Minimoog and a Jupiter 8 won't do anything for him either. Simple as that. But that by no means implies that Diva isn't currently *the* reference emulation out there. Some people then make the implication and here we go: Why?
mcnoone - Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:59 pm
@OP: Ridiculous.
OzWozEre - Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:40 pm
Urs wrote:
OzWozEre wrote:
MickGael wrote:
The first rule of Fight Club is: You do not talk about Fight Club. The second rule of Fight Club is: You do not speak ill of Diva.
Yeah, I've noticed this cult worship about Diva, which is why I think folks are trying to assertain "why".
For me the "why" is, why can't people accept that Diva does the trick. The models we used behave indistinguishably close to the reference hardware we have, but we added bigger ranges of control and features not found in those vintage synths.
It's been a shitload of work and a massive investment. Buying and servicing the reference hardware is tens of thousands alone.
When then someone comes along like the OP and says Diva doesn't do anything for him, then, well, a Minimoog and a Jupiter 8 won't do anything for him either. Simple as that. But that by no means implies that Diva isn't currently *the* reference emulation out there. Some people then make the implication and here we go: Why?
Can't get any fairer than that
So the only thing left to say is: where's the U-He Bundle?!
Urs - Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:42 pm
OzWozEre wrote:
Tell me, would this Diva be held in the same high-regard if it was bought and offered by NI and dumped in its $500 Komplete bundle?
Don't be fooled by the price tag of Kumplete. It's worth much more. However, NI has become a hardware manufacturer. Naturally they subsidize the software to sell more hardware. Like Apple does.
Yet, no-one can afford to buy Diva off of us. Some tried one way or the other, but as I wrote elsewhere, I wouldn't swap my passion for being bored shitless on a yacht.
And hehehe, poor those who can't stand the hype. It'll become much worse in exactly two months from today
Urs - Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:46 pm
OzWozEre wrote:
So the only thing left to say is: where's the U-He Bundle?!
We'll be thinking about this. It's a bit of an effort because it entails additions to our licensing system and webinterface. Atm we're busy though with what I hinted at in the previous post, and preparations for our fun event, Musikmesse.
JoeCat - Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:55 pm
I'm not hearing what the OP is hearing, but even if that were the case:
Running audio direct is a recent phenomenon - open a DAW plug-in and run straight to reference monitors or headphones and what's sitting between the sound source and your ears is almost transparent. Plug phones into a Pro One and it might not sound as hot as you remember. Even if you just ran to a board you had the channel strip to impart some character.
Take any soft synth, mix in a little A tape emu - even one that replicates more modern character - maybe some gentle putlec EQ emu, tube sat, etc., and stir.
I think a lot of us forget that back in the "good old days", there was a lot of analog after the analog. I'm not suggesting a MiniMoog run thru a DAW and audio interface sounds harsh, but it ain't Lucky Man, either.
Urs - Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:58 pm
Yeah, a bit of tape emu is never sniffed at
OzWozEre - Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:14 pm
Urs wrote:
OzWozEre wrote:
So the only thing left to say is: where's the U-He Bundle?!
We'll be thinking about this. It's a bit of an effort because it entails additions to our licensing system and webinterface. Atm we're busy though with what I hinted at in the previous post, and preparations for our fun event, Musikmesse.
Well, I'm glad you're at least considering it because I wanna buy all your shizzle with a little disconizzle, namean?
Good luck with whatever you got brewing for Musikmesse -- I'm sure you won't disappoint!
KBSoundSmith - Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:28 pm
Urs wrote:
OzWozEre wrote:
Tell me, would this Diva be held in the same high-regard if it was bought and offered by NI and dumped in its $500 Komplete bundle?
Don't be fooled by the price tag of Kumplete. It's worth much more. However, NI has become a hardware manufacturer. Naturally they subsidize the software to sell more hardware. Like Apple does.
Yet, no-one can afford to buy Diva off of us. Some tried one way or the other, but as I wrote elsewhere, I wouldn't swap my passion for being bored shitless on a yacht.
And hehehe, poor those who can't stand the hype. It'll become much worse in exactly two months from today
Did I miss an announcement or a hint in another thread? New filter model, arpeggiator, audio-in?
Nanakai - Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:49 pm
Urs wrote:
And hehehe, poor those who can't stand the hype. It'll become much worse in exactly two months from today
At least tell me if I should save some money....
analoguesamples909 - Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:29 am
Urs wrote:
Yeah, a bit of tape emu is never sniffed at
Mmm this is interesting...wonder what Sacha is up to...
And wonder what is coming in two months...
Urs - Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:26 am
analoguesamples909 wrote:
Urs wrote:
Yeah, a bit of tape emu is never sniffed at
Mmm this is interesting...wonder what Sacha is up to...
And wonder what is coming in two months...
I think there was a video leaked showing Sascha tweaking a tape emu.
In two months is Musikmesse, we're presenting a bunch of new stuff. And a Diva update, obviously with an Arpeggiator but also with approximately two new models of something (not complete synths, but the best bits of them)
Urs - Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:44 am
Nanakai wrote:
Urs wrote:
And hehehe, poor those who can't stand the hype. It'll become much worse in exactly two months from today
At least tell me if I should save some money....
As always, don't buy anything based on expectation. Once it's there and if you like it, you can save up then.
We've made a few too optimistic promises in the past which reality and circumstance never could live up to. Which led to quite some disappointments. Which is why we don't post any details anymore, even if stuff is nearly finished
analoguesamples909 - Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:46 am
Urs wrote:
I think there was a video leaked showing Sascha tweaking a tape emu.
In two months is Musikmesse, we're presenting a bunch of new stuff. And a Diva update, obviously with an Arpeggiator but also with approximately two new models of something (not complete synths, but the best bits of them)
interesting has anyone seen this leaked video?
hakey - Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:26 am
Nanakai wrote:
Urs wrote:
And hehehe, poor those who can't stand the hype. It'll become much worse in exactly two months from today
At least tell me if I should save some money....
This may or may not be a clue:
Urs wrote:
We're evaluating an attempt to OB-X filters. It's all nice and juicy, but it's really not that far off from the 12dB multimode filter, sound-wise. The mere difference is in the choice of OTA chips (CA3080 rather than IR3109) and the clipping in the feedback path. They're basically indistinguishable at low resonance settings. The other difference is, of course, Oberheim's SEM/OB-X filter doesn't go into self oscillation while Roland's Jupiter-6 and Alpha Juno filters do. Which I guess is merely a choice of parameter design rather than a limitation of the circuit (not sure).
Going by that luke warm description it would perhaps be an odd choice.
Nanakai - Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:32 am
Urs wrote:
Nanakai wrote:
Urs wrote:
And hehehe, poor those who can't stand the hype. It'll become much worse in exactly two months from today
At least tell me if I should save some money....
As always, don't buy anything based on expectation. Once it's there and if you like it, you can save up then.
We've made a few too optimistic promises in the past which reality and circumstance never could live up to. Which led to quite some disappointments. Which is why we don't post any details anymore, even if stuff is nearly finished
A solid plan. All I'm wondering is, are you talking about new products with introductory prices that I could work into my budget (if the demos please me), or updates to existing products? Didn't mean to put you on the spot, though. I'll try to pretend I didn't read anything....
...while secretly
Aural Chaos - Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:14 am
Urs wrote:
Don't be fooled by the price tag of Kumplete. It's worth much more. However, NI has become a hardware manufacturer. Naturally they subsidize the software to sell more hardware. Like Apple does.
Completely false analogy.
NI's stuff will run on any computer, any hardware.
Apple's stuff will only run on Apple's computers.
EvilDragon - Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:20 am
Not true, you can install OSX on a regular PC. It's Linux (FreeBSD) at its core, after all.
Nightpolymath - Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:18 am
EvilDragon wrote:
Not true, you can install OSX on a regular PC. It's Linux (FreeBSD) at its core, after all.
If you're talking about the kernel it is completely unrelated to Linux. It is based on the Mach operating system. They're as different as chalk and cheese. Tagged on top of both is a Unix-like system, which itself was derived from Bell labs.
whyterabbyt - Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:22 am
Nightpolymath wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:
Not true, you can install OSX on a regular PC. It's Linux (FreeBSD) at its core, after all.
If you're talking about the kernel it is completely unrelated to Linux.
<pedantry> as is FreeBSD </pedantry>
EvilDragon - Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:27 am
Whoopsie, my bad there. Dunno why I linked FreeBSD to Linux. Well it's a Unixoid OS anyways. In any case, OSX will work on Intel-based PCs for better or for worse. So Urs' analogy was not flawed.
OzWozEre - Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:28 am
I just wanna know if he actually mean Kumplete or if it was a Freudian Slip?
Aural Chaos - Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:56 am
EvilDragon wrote:
Not true, you can install OSX on a regular PC. It's Linux (FreeBSD) at its core, after all.
That's even more beside the point than my post though. I mean, what percent of Apple's software sales are to people running it on non Apple hardware?
That all has nothing to do with his analogy- how can you claim that the price of Komplete is artificially low because it forces people to buy NI's hardware, when it does no such thing?
Kaboom75 - Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:57 am
I guess the moog and JP 8 must sound bad too then. If a DIVA preset sounds to harsh you can twiddle with the knobs to get it more to your liking.
Lotuzia - Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:31 am
Aural Chaos wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:
Not true, you can install OSX on a regular PC. It's Linux (FreeBSD) at its core, after all.
That's even more beside the point than my post though. I mean, what percent of Apple's software sales are to people running it on non Apple hardware?
That all has nothing to do with his analogy- how can you claim that the price of Komplete is artificially low because it forces people to buy NI's hardware, when it does no such thing?
NI sells combined and integrated HW and software. as an example my Kore 2 system with the Kore 2 interface. Then I have almost all NI software, but not Maschine for example.
Aural Chaos - Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:56 am
Lotuzia wrote:
NI sells combined and integrated HW and software. as an example my Kore 2 system with the Kore 2 interface. Then I have almost all NI software, but not Maschine for example.
Kore is discontinued, Machine has litle or nothing to do with Komplete, the point was what...?
Komlplete really is kompletely separate from the kontrollers and sound kards that NI also happens to sell.
toitoi - Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:11 am
http://www.groove.de/2012/11/21/groove-tv-klanggestalter-u-he/
Video! Unfortunatly in german.
Synthbuilder - Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:26 am
hakey wrote:
Whilst you're here Synthbuidler, settle an argument: what was the weather doing in the north Pennines yesterday? Was the road to Alston open?
Powdery snow and howling winds. I couldn't get the car out of the drive. By the evening it had turned to rain but still very windy. By Thursday it had all gone at 750ft where I am. No idea about the A686 to Alston even though it's only a few miles away. But that final drag up to the top from the Penrith side has a tendancy to block very quickly.
Tony
Synthbuilder - Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:32 am
analoguesamples909 wrote:
... please tony consider a small format monosynth - new analogue era!
Funny you saying that. I'm working on that very thing right now.
Tony
analoguesamples909 - Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:58 am
Synthbuilder wrote:
analoguesamples909 wrote:
... please tony consider a small format monosynth - new analogue era!
Funny you saying that. I'm working on that very thing right now.
Tony
Great!
hakey - Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:54 pm
Synthbuilder wrote:
hakey wrote:
Whilst you're here Synthbuidler, settle an argument: what was the weather doing in the north Pennines yesterday?
Powdery snow and howling winds. I couldn't get the car out of the drive. By the evening it had turned to rain but still very windy. By Thursday it had all gone at 750ft where I am.
I'm just down the road from you and unsurprisingly it was much the same here.
TheoM - Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:24 pm
izonin wrote:
daExpert wrote:
I hear the harshness more on certain sounds than others, if you lower the low-pass filter enough you can mask the harshness pretty well.
The harshness goes away when you render at higher sampling rates. Try both 96 and 192kHz.
Don't forget you'd need a 32 core 8ghz , intel i17 to do that
Urs - Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:27 pm
Aural Chaos wrote:
Urs wrote:
Don't be fooled by the price tag of Kumplete. It's worth much more. However, NI has become a hardware manufacturer. Naturally they subsidize the software to sell more hardware. Like Apple does.
Completely false analogy.
NI's stuff will run on any computer, any hardware.
Apple's stuff will only run on Apple's computers.
How is that even related?
NI bundles a lot of software with Traktor and Maschine. Like Apple, they subsidize software to sell hardware.
If you want to be nitpicky about it, Maschine's OS doesn't run on a homegrown Arduino controller, nor on a Novation controller.
TheoM - Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:29 pm
Urs wrote:
OzWozEre wrote:
So the only thing left to say is: where's the U-He Bundle?!
We'll be thinking about this. It's a bit of an effort because it entails additions to our licensing system and webinterface. Atm we're busy though with what I hinted at in the previous post, and preparations for our fun event, Musikmesse.
Does this actually have any chance of happening? if so i will wait.
I remember when i wanted to buy just the uhbik flanger, for like years, and asked for singles, and you basically hinted it was happening, well, years (or at least one year) ago, and it never did (and i still want just the flanger if i can)
so is there ANY real chance of a u-he bundle? If so, this year? lol
vurt - Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:31 pm
the video i saw was "two divas, one zebra"
joan collins looked bewildered, but madonna and the stripey feller seemed to be enjoying themselves...
Urs - Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:44 pm
Aural Chaos wrote:
That all has nothing to do with his analogy- how can you claim that the price of Komplete is artificially low because it forces people to buy NI's hardware, when it does no such thing?
So you're saying either Komplete is a bunch of cheapo softs or they are subsidizing it for other reasons. Let's please assume latter. What reason would NI have to sell Massive etc. for a few bucks each, if not a vast branding campaign? And why would they do that if not to increase revenue with their main products, Traktor controllers, audio interfaces and Maschine?
I'm sorry, but Komplete is the best value for money out there. You do however get into their database (maybe I should have used Google/Youtube as an analogy, but I didn't want to come across like a conspiracy theorist)
Maybe one day, if we ever manage to build Diva controllers, we'll sell Diva for 10 bucks and our controllers for 1000.
liquidsound - Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:45 pm
I think if u-he would re-pack Diva with a different name and GUI and post it under a different developer some people would say that one is better than the other no matter what.
Love and hate and challenging attitude.
Diva is Diva.
Urs - Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:47 pm
TheoM wrote:
so is there ANY real chance of a u-he bundle? If so, this year? lol
Not sure. And even if, it won't be anywhere near the discount of Komplete. If ever then it'll be in the realm of 10% rather than 70%.
TheoM - Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:58 pm
10% is still a healthy savings
Oh, i would never expect some komplete discount.. that would be silly. NI do hardware, you don't..
Once again please make uhbik singles available.. despite what you might thing i bet you there are plenty of buyers who have not purchased cause they only want one or two of them.
Kriminal - Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:00 pm
They do singles as Re's....
TheoM - Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:05 pm
hehe i sure know that, but i am banned for using reason for life, and i have been back on logic since october
and all i can say is, PRAISE THE LORD!
plus, diva will not make it to RE in the current RE cpu draining sdk, so now i get to use diva again.
Did you stop selling your banks? I can't find them.
Urs - Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:34 pm
Kriminal wrote:
They do singles as Re's....
.. because Propellerhead have no bundle funcion in their shop
TheoM - Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:37 pm
Well sorry i am looking for a second hand Uhbik.. sorry if that offends URS but 149 is just too much for a flanger. I know that's hard for people to understand, but that's the uhbik i would use personally.
But diva i will buy direct next payday, i give you my 100% word on that
Urs - Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:44 pm
TheoM wrote:
Once again please make uhbik singles available.. despite what you might thing i bet you there are plenty of buyers who have not purchased cause they only want one or two of them.
I would seriously love to do that, but not sure how and when.
It would require a significant addition to our serial number scheme, as there would need to be a serial for the bundle and one for each single plug. That kind of interferes with those roughly 50 places where we check the serial number or else let the ui melt and such. This is a no go anytime soon. In essence, for a "this year solution" we would have to do just individual serial numbers for each plug. Which means that every user of the full bundle would have to reregister each single plug again. But this I'm not prepared to do... so hmmm, I can't see it happen anytime soon, I'm afraid
Urs - Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:51 pm
TheoM wrote:
Well sorry i am looking for a second hand Uhbik.. sorry if that offends URS but 149 is just too much for a flanger. I know that's hard for people to understand, but that's the uhbik i would use personally.
But diva i will buy direct next payday, i give you my 100% word on that
But diva i will buy direct next payday, i give you my 100% word on that
Not offended at all!
I'm currently in Melbourne btw. and I'd love to meet up, but my wife's Mum isn't doing well. It's pretty busy. Otherwise I'd organise another meet at Beer DeLuxe
TheoM - Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:55 pm
We have to do it this time URS! we must! I will make it there no matter what.. even if i am in a wheelchair!
(no seriously will just take a good dose of the heavy pain meds, and will have a day out.. i need one)
Sorry about your mother in law
Wishing her the very best of health.
Well.. there must be a way we can do something.. that would be really cool as i was bummed i missed it last time because of my stupid back.
How long are you here for?
Are you on the same mobile number as last time?
Albert.VST - Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:23 pm
daExpert wrote:
But when I play more aggressive lead sounds in Legacy Cell, V-station, and Dune, there isn't the tinnyness in the upper-frequencies that Diva has. On that sound demo when the filter was raised, you could definitely hear the harshness a bit that you wouldn't hear on other synths.
Like Urs said, maybe for the sounds you like Diva isn't your cup of tea. Diva is modelled after a range of hardware synths, and does this very well. But the sounds you like could be quite different than those obtained from these oldies.
Fred_Abstract - Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:06 pm
djanthonyw wrote:
Fred_Abstract wrote:
i wish the sound was more raw,i don't know if it's in my head but i find the oscs to have something i ear in all uhe synths
I never liked the sound of any of the other u-he synths, but Diva is what got me. So I don't think it sounds like any of the others.
to me they all have something in common, from ace to zebra to filterscape and diva , u-he touch in the caractere, really enjoy these synths btw but yes sometimes i wish the sound was less polished and more dirty.
daExpert - Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:40 pm
Albert.VST wrote:
daExpert wrote:
But when I play more aggressive lead sounds in Legacy Cell, V-station, and Dune, there isn't the tinnyness in the upper-frequencies that Diva has. On that sound demo when the filter was raised, you could definitely hear the harshness a bit that you wouldn't hear on other synths.
Like Urs said, maybe for the sounds you like Diva isn't your cup of tea. Diva is modeled after a range of hardware synths, and does this very well. But the sounds you like could be quite different than those obtained from these oldies.
Yeah I agree. I was never comparing Diva to a Minimoog or a Jupiter 8. Honestly, I've never actually played either. I'm more of a real instrument guy myself. I'm comparing Diva to the three best sounding virtual analogs I've played.
But when people say Diva is the best sounding virtual synth ever, I'm just not hearing that. When I sweep the filter in the virtual MS-20 I'm hearing a thicker, warmer sound than anything I'm hearing in Diva. The Legacy Cell probably has an advantage because you can layer two MS-20's or Polysix's and it might have better effects than Diva.
I would say V-Station is similar to KLAE. Except that it is a little more hi-fi and glossy, and not as 3-dimensional front-to-back.
I would say Dune is comparable to Diva in how good it sounds, with Dune having a more crisp, digital character and Diva having a more analog, "harsh" character.
djanthonyw - Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:09 pm
I find Dune's sound very dull, as if they are *trying* to make it sound analog. Something funky going on with the high frequencies, or lack there of.
SODDI - Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:18 am
"It would require a significant addition to our serial number scheme, as there would need to be a serial for the bundle and one for each single plug."
I don't see the problem. The bundle is the price, not the copy protect. (I'm just speaking as an old sales head who would never want to bollix the sale because of configuration.)
If there's 3 pieces in the bundle, each piece gets its own copy protect same as if the user bought them individually.
It sounds like more of an order entry/order fulfillment thing.
Daan22 - Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:48 am
daExpert wrote:
I hear people rave about how awesome Diva is and I just don't see it. It's a nice synth but I feel that it has some weaknesses.
I'm totally with you. I've demoed Diva, and I thought the sound missed character. This is a synth that is just very uninspirational to me, since the sound is just..dead. Because of all the raving comments I tried and tried, but there was no click whatsoever.
I don't see it. It may be a good synth in many aspects, but I deleted it from my harddrive after 30 minutes.
Wishing everybody who clicks with it lots of fun.
ariston - Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:17 am
Daan22 wrote:
I'm totally with you. I've demoed Diva, and I thought the sound missed character. This is a synth that is just very uninspirational to me, since the sound is just..dead. Because of all the raving comments I tried and tried, but there was no click whatsoever.
I don't see it. It may be a good synth in many aspects, but I deleted it from my harddrive after 30 minutes.
Wishing everybody who clicks with it lots of fun.
I'm always interested to hear HOW people come by their opinions. Can you give an example of a synth that doesn't sound "dead" to you?
What's really fascinating is that Diva does a great job of delivering all those non-linearities that die-hard analogue fans have been clamouring for, and thus is reputed to sound more "alive" and more full of "character" than any other VA.
It hasn't even occurred to me to think of the sound of any synth as "dead", btw. I think of them as tools to make sounds, and they can all sound either dead or alive, depending on how you program them. My opinion, naturally.
hakey - Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:19 am
daExpert wrote:
people say Diva is the best sounding virtual synth ever
Who says that? What is claimed is that Diva is the closest emulation (/simulation) yet of analogue synthesis in the plugin world.
Diva stands or falls on the accuracy of its emulation - comparison alongside other VA synths without any reference to the original hardware spectacularly misses the point.
Quote:
When I sweep the filter in the virtual MS-20 I'm hearing a thicker, warmer sound than anything MS-20 filter
When I sweep Diva's MS-20 type filter I hear a more accurate replication of the behaviour of a real MS-20 filter than that from the Korg Legacy.
Urs - Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:31 am
SODDI wrote:
"It would require a significant addition to our serial number scheme, as there would need to be a serial for the bundle and one for each single plug."
I don't see the problem. The bundle is the price, not the copy protect. (I'm just speaking as an old sales head who would never want to bollix the sale because of configuration.)
If there's 3 pieces in the bundle, each piece gets its own copy protect same as if the user bought them individually.
It sounds like more of an order entry/order fulfillment thing.
I don't see the problem. The bundle is the price, not the copy protect. (I'm just speaking as an old sales head who would never want to bollix the sale because of configuration.)
If there's 3 pieces in the bundle, each piece gets its own copy protect same as if the user bought them individually.
It sounds like more of an order entry/order fulfillment thing.
Well, Uhbik currently is one single piece of software that *contains* 9 plug-in-processes. For AU and VST3 it's a single entity, for VST2 our installer makes 9 identical copies of the dll with just different names. As such, the copy protection within the software doesn't care if it's the Flanger or the Delay or whatever.
If we unbundle the software, we have to make them separate entities, each with its own serial number. Otherwise one could just buy one and use the others for free.
Our copy protection is hilariously effective - easy and reliable for the legit user, persuasive for the crack user. Thus I'm reluctant to change it in any way, e.g. to support different licensing schemes.
Ingonator - Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:32 am
There are rarely any 1:1 comparison of Diva vs the real thing.
I just found this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Z__dJBmbo
Ingo
hakey - Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:38 am
Audio comparisons... on youtube for the win!
electro - Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:40 am
Ingonator wrote:
There are rarely any 1:1 comparison of Diva vs the real thing.
I just found this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Z__dJBmbo
Ingo
I just found this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Z__dJBmbo
Ingo
Yes even under the poor recording conditions you can hear how close DIVA comes. Urs really knows what he is doing.
I want to hear a JP8 A/B under proper recording conditions. Unfortunately DIVA's parameter ranges will not match up easily.
Urs - Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:49 am
electro wrote:
Yes even under the poor recording conditions you can hear how close DIVA comes. Urs really knows what he is doing.
I want to hear a JP8 A/B under proper recording conditions. Unfortunately DIVA's parameter ranges will not match up easily.
I want to hear a JP8 A/B under proper recording conditions. Unfortunately DIVA's parameter ranges will not match up easily.
Well, hehe, we have two Juno60s and Diva only sounds like one of them.
JP8 is similarly difficult. You'll need the apparently rare 2nd revision to check it out. Someone did a few comparisons with his Rev1 JP8 and it sounded fairly different. But so does our Rev2 JP8.
rob_lee - Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:55 am
@Urs
Can't you build us a nice little 37 key DIVA hardware synth.. cash waiting if you do
Rob