"What the..."
OK, so the Juno series (or at least the juno alpha series) was able to do some tricks with PWM of even a ramp wave, making it so perculiar at hoovering (as well as the Juno's particular characteristics, but still).
My question is - What could it do to the waveform of a rampwave via PWM? Particularly in a hoover? Or am I mislead here?
Roland Juno PWM Tricks?
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 10588 posts since 13 Jun, 2004 from Alberto Balsam
-
- KVRAF
- 2017 posts since 21 Mar, 2002 from Hutchinson, Kansas
Technically, the positive and negative segments of a ramp or sawtooth wave can be modulated just like a square. My big modular can do this, as can my VCS-3. On one end of the spectrum, you get a ramp, the other a saw, and a triangle in the middle.
Now, I can't offhand remember what the Juno did. I have one in the closet, and if no one else can recall, I'll drag it out tomorrow and take a look. I think the "What the" patch is still in there somewhere...
Now, I can't offhand remember what the Juno did. I have one in the closet, and if no one else can recall, I'll drag it out tomorrow and take a look. I think the "What the" patch is still in there somewhere...
-
- GRRRRRRR!
- 15938 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
A closet Juno man, huh? I always had my suspicions.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.
-
- KVRAF
- 2017 posts since 21 Mar, 2002 from Hutchinson, Kansas
In some cultures it's considered "hip" to bring your Juno out of the closet. But the whole "Retrosexual" trend just hasn't caught on in Colorado Springs...BONES wrote:A closet Juno man, huh? I always had my suspicions.
-
- KVRian
- 772 posts since 6 Oct, 2003 from ezeeworld
You guys are silly! 
-
- GRRRRRRR!
- 15938 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
Yes, we are.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.
-
- KVRist
- 253 posts since 19 Nov, 2002 from Toronto, Canada
It was only the alpha-Juno 1/2/MKS-50, which is part of the reason why they sound so different from the Juno 6/60/106 (the anemic filters on the alpha is another big factor).The Chase wrote:"What the..."
OK, so the Juno series (or at least the juno alpha series) was able to do some tricks with PWM of even a ramp wave, making it so perculiar at hoovering (as well as the Juno's particular characteristics, but still).
According to the diagram in the manual, the PWM on the ramp actually adds a notch into the middle of the waveform and modulates the width of that notch. Whether it actually does that, I don't really know.
-
- KVRist
- 459 posts since 5 Jan, 2004 from In the now
Makes sense, i knew it had to be more than normal PWM because it fattens up the sound enormously. Almost like an early version of supersaw.Bruce Bartlett wrote:It was only the alpha-Juno 1/2/MKS-50, which is part of the reason why they sound so different from the Juno 6/60/106 (the anemic filters on the alpha is another big factor).The Chase wrote:"What the..."
OK, so the Juno series (or at least the juno alpha series) was able to do some tricks with PWM of even a ramp wave, making it so perculiar at hoovering (as well as the Juno's particular characteristics, but still).
According to the diagram in the manual, the PWM on the ramp actually adds a notch into the middle of the waveform and modulates the width of that notch. Whether it actually does that, I don't really know.
"If less is more, just think of how much more, more will be".
-
- KVRian
- 1243 posts since 24 Oct, 2003 from Maine
So when do we get a software emulation of this peculiarly 1337 technique of modulating the width of a non-existant pulse?
I was never quite able to make that deeeowww deeeow deooow sound, not that I'd ever use it or anything.
I was never quite able to make that deeeowww deeeow deooow sound, not that I'd ever use it or anything.
♫♪♫♫♪♫
-
- KVRist
- 411 posts since 12 May, 2005
I think it could be achieved by AM'ing a saw wave (carrier) with a pulse wave (modulator), with both oscs exact same frequency, and completely in phase, and then modulating the pulse wave's width. It might possibly work better with negative AM. I'm going to try this.
-
- KVRian
- 1216 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Karlshamn, Sweden
Great tip!uvacom wrote:I think it could be achieved by AM'ing a saw wave (carrier) with a pulse wave (modulator), with both oscs exact same frequency, and completely in phase, and then modulating the pulse wave's width. It might possibly work better with negative AM. I'm going to try this.
i just tried that with my modular, and compared to my Juno 2, and guess what, its very similar imo.
-
- KVRAF
- 12555 posts since 7 Dec, 2004
actually, the pulse wave is supposed to be twice the frequency.
hoover =
pulse + (pulse[x2frequency] * saw) + (1octsub OR 2octsub) + (noise * 0.25)
with both pulse widths modulated equally from 50% to 99% at a rate 2/3 (or is it 4/5 ?) of the rate of a stereo chorus used over top of the whole thing.
(1octsub OR 2octsub) produces a 75% duty pulse at two octaves down.
the noise is the most important part of the sound.
-
- KVRist
- 411 posts since 12 May, 2005
good call. I was basing that description off of a fuzzy memory of what the a-juno's sawPWM looked like, once I checked the manual I saw that I had made a mistake there, but by that point you had already given your (more thorough) explanation.aciddose wrote: actually, the pulse wave is supposed to be twice the frequency.
