That's Richman isn't it? Love that tone generator, thanks for making it.ianweb123 wrote:IMO, this doesn't morph anywhere but I would say that this was expressive..
semper_dolens
most expressive synth??
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- KVRAF
- 1893 posts since 19 Apr, 2006 from Montreal, Canada
No, that wasn't me.
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- KVRAF
- 1893 posts since 19 Apr, 2006 from Montreal, Canada
I think you missed the point entirely.Architeuthis wrote:http://www.argitoth.com/files/crazy.mp3
Hey Dubbyah, is that expressive enough for you? it was created in surge with one sustained note. This thing gets crazier and crazier...
No, that wasn't me.
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- KVRist
- 58 posts since 8 Dec, 2005
With UFO (Unique Filters and Oscillators) you can modulate pretty much all the synthesis parameters simultaneously according to velocity (including oscillator behaviour), which makes it very expressive. Same for mod wheel, which can be used as a kind of morphing controller.dubbyah wrote:Ive used a whole boatload of synths, I want some stuff that are very expressive and playable, i.e., do very different things according to velocity.. Ideally, there should also be mod wheel function for more then just filter/vibrato..
any suggesstions? Something that I can basically get a whole bunch of different sound out of just by using velocity, without having to tweak knobs.. very playable stuff..
www.audeon.fr - Innovative Software Synthesizer
- KVRAF
- 3417 posts since 28 Jan, 2006 from Phoenix, AZ
I didn't say "morphing" was the definition of expression, but it is one way of expression.ianweb123 wrote:IMO, this doesn't morph anywhere but I would say that this was expressive..
semper_dolens
it was a joke, READ THE THREAD!bullshark wrote:I think you missed the point entirely.Architeuthis wrote:http://www.argitoth.com/files/crazy.mp3
Hey Dubbyah, is that expressive enough for you? it was created in surge with one sustained note. This thing gets crazier and crazier...
With UFO, I was thinking about using that but ultimately it's not transparent enough. It has things like "chaotic"... what the hell does that mean? I'm a sound designer at heart and if I am going to play with a synth I better know what I'm actually doing to the oscillators or I won't be able to get the sound I want unless I learn the sound of UFO by heart. That's not something you should waste time with.
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- KVRAF
- 3096 posts since 3 Nov, 2002 from Kettering UK
I didn't mean to imply that you had, I was merely observing that even an expression like 'expression' can be interpreted a number of different ways.Architeuthis wrote:I didn't say "morphing" was the definition of expressionianweb123 wrote:IMO, this doesn't morph anywhere but I would say that this was expressive..
semper_dolens
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- KVRist
- 58 posts since 8 Dec, 2005
I think it really depends on what you are looking for. If what you mean by "transparent" is a synth where you know what the signal processing equations of the audio engine are, and where the GUI gives you direct control over the parameters of these equations, sure it's less transparent than a FM synth where you explicity define the routing of the oscillators (algorithm), plus the frequencies and modulation amounts. But is a FM synth transparent in the sense that you can predict what it's gonna sound like when you tweak these parameters? You need a lot of practice with a FM synth until you are able to guess how the sound will be affected when you change the frequency of one of the modulators from 6 to 7 times the frequency of the carrier, and in that sense, I think a synth that offers controls like bright, noisy, periodic, chaotic, mellow, etc is perhaps less transparent signal processing wise, but more transparent perceptually (and therefore much quicker to learn), and isn't that what matters?Architeuthis wrote:With UFO, I was thinking about using that but ultimately it's not transparent enough.
UFO goes more towards perceptual high level controls like the aforementioned ones than low level mathematical parameters, and you are right, it gives you no clue as to what you're actually doing to the equations of the oscillator model when you go change the duration of the onset transient or make it sound noisier. So it is definitely not targeted to the people who'd rather have a synth where the GUI says "frequency of the oscillator modulating the read pointer of the delay line" rather than "flanger speed", or "distance of the filter pole to the unit circle" rather than "resonance".
However, I tend to think that there are a few people out there who don't want to bother about what's going on under the hood and who can happily live for instance with a vague "damping" parameter on a plucked string physical model plugin without knowing it's actually controlling the cutoff frequency of the lowpass filter in the feedback path of the waveguide. UFO was designed for them.
If what you mean here is "what parameter of what equation does it control inside the synthesis engine?", sorry but I won't tell you: the algorithms of our K-Osc oscillator are not public domain... If you ask this from a physical/perceptual point of view, then I can explain if it is unclear: theoretically, a chaotic system is neither purely periodic (deterministic) nor purely random. Famous example : the climate. Some periodicity in it (rains more in winter than in summer, etc) but not really predictable (huge computers for poor weather forecasts...) How does this translate into the sound? A chaotic oscillator results in a sound that has a somewhat defined pitch, a more or less periodic sound (sometimes perceived as having multiple pitches) with more or less unpredictable perturbations in it. Examples : a flute exhibits a chaotic behaviour when you are at the boundary of overblowing it, a sax growl is likely the result of a chaotic oscillation too, people who try to play a violin for the first time often produce chaotic sounds as well (by not applying the proper pressure on the bow, I think), you can also make weird chaotic sounds with a modular analog synth using feedback, etc. This is what a "chaotic" sound means.It has things like "chaotic"... what the hell does that mean?
Learning UFO is pretty quick, and it's not especially my claim. For instance, the review published by Computer Music says "few synths are as intuitive as easy to patch as UFO"I'm a sound designer at heart and if I am going to play with a synth I better know what I'm actually doing to the oscillators or I won't be able to get the sound I want unless I learn the sound of UFO by heart. That's not something you should waste time with.
Anyway, the topic was about getting an expressive synth, so I'm getting off-topic... So it's your right to dislike the kind of parameters available in UFO or their naming, but still: most of them can be modulated by multiple sources simultaneously (and vice-versa), including velocity, aftertouch and modulation wheel. Therefore you can pretty easily build a sound where the velocity morphs a pan flute into a steel drum while the mod wheel makes it a lead synth and the aftertouch also alters the sound drastically, which makes it an expressive synth IMHBBO(*)
(*) = In My Humble But Biased Opinion
www.audeon.fr - Innovative Software Synthesizer
- KVRAF
- 2841 posts since 23 Feb, 2004 from Planet Earth...for now
ianweb123 wrote:I didn't mean to imply that you had, I was merely observing that even an expression like 'expression' can be interpreted a number of different ways.Architeuthis wrote:I didn't say "morphing" was the definition of expressionianweb123 wrote:IMO, this doesn't morph anywhere but I would say that this was expressive..
semper_dolens
And even MORE ways if you've never read a dictionary
Of course in his defense, maybe he doesn't have one
Here ya go Arch - www.dictionary.com
ex·pres·sive adj.
Of, relating to, or characterized by expression.
Serving to express or indicate: actions expressive of frustration.
Full of expression; significant: an expressive glance.
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ex·pressive·ly adv. ex·pressive·ness n.
Synonyms: expressive, eloquent, meaningful, significant
These adjectives mean effectively conveying a feeling, idea, or mood: an expressive gesture; an eloquent speech; a meaningful look; a significant smile.
- KVRAF
- 3417 posts since 28 Jan, 2006 from Phoenix, AZ
i stated a simple opinion Audeon, you didn't need to spend an hour writing a post. Anyway, I still think UFO sounds great, it's just not something I need right now. I need something more basic and "right there", something I know already, thus I chose Surge over UFO. UFO can come later when I need something more creative.
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- KVRAF
- 10588 posts since 13 Jun, 2004 from Alberto Balsam
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- KVRAF
- 10588 posts since 13 Jun, 2004 from Alberto Balsam
seriously though, toxic, but effects play a key roll as well. Mr. Alias scores second.