The most underestimated synths...

[aumordia]

This thread gave my dog AIDS thanks KVR.

[sjm]

To Tony Randall, and I loved him as Felix Unger, if it wasn't classical music, it wasn't music.

These people do exist whether anybody wants to admit it or not.

In an attempt to loop back to the original topic, I think we all know these people exist. We are also very much free to dismiss their views as marginal. They do not represent the Man on the Clapham Omnibus; society's general consensus on the matter. Sure, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but no one is obliged to find that opinion reasonable or relevant.

IIRC, this whole sub-debate spawned when you asked what makes a synth "underestimated", especially as people's views of what makes a good synth will be subjective. And of course different people have different tastes and needs - we may indeed fail to agree on what makes a top synth. But as I wrote before, I don't think that being a "good synth" and being an "underestimated synth" are necessarily one and the same thing.

The music videos that have been posted over the course of this thread actually illustrate quite well what I would understand an underestimated synth to be.

We have synths that may be great for some people, but are undoubtedly instruments for a niche market. They may cater to a somewhat esoteric gap in someone's arsenal, but have little mass appeal. These synths aren't so much "bad" or "underestimated". They are what they are: something for those who appreciate what they offer and have a use for them. These people are not the Man on the Clapham Omnibus. In musical terms, these are the avant garde loopy left field curveballs. And maybe someone will create a sound with them that will become mainstream one day.

Then there are other synths, that - for whatever reason - don't have as much buzz about them as others, but are actually great synths. They might not be the "best" synths, or the most well-known synths, but they are those that have something to offer that the average musician can probably appreciate - even if the sound isn't necessarily for them. These are the underground lesser known music groups that are actually pretty good, but maybe don't have the same PR machine behind them or whatever, so they remain bubbling below the surface. This is what this topic is/was about.

And then there are the big megastars of the synth scene - the synths all the big name "producers" are using in their massive multiplatinum hits. The musical equivalent of the Beatles, Abba, Nirvana, Skrillex and whatever bubblegum pop is flavour of the month right now.

So to come back to the part of your post I quoted, someone might say that Synth A is a bad synth because it can't do wub sounds or isn't used to make ambient death polka. It's an opinion that most of us will be smart enough to ignore as having little to contribute to the discussion. Why? Because the Man on the Clapham Omnibus knows that that argument is bullshit.

Conversely, someone pointing out an actual flaw in a synth - like it doesn't produce any sound, will be taken seriously. Again, the Man on the Clapham Omnibus knows that a synth that doesn't make a sound is a pretty duff synth. We shouldn't shy from reasonable discourse just because of a few unreasonable oddballs.



One synth I feel is a bit off the radar is Harmor. I don't think it is underappreciated, but I do think it gets a lot less recognition and mention than it merits. Harmor only ever really comes up on KVR when talking about additive synthesis and resynthesis. That's possibly because Harmor is such an overwhelming beast of a synth that it just doesn't quite have that mass appeal or instant gratification factor. At first glance it might come across as a weird avant garde noise machine - it's really easy to make things sound hideous! While Harmor is a sound designers dream, it's actually pretty quick and easy to get your standard synth sounds out of it as well. All it takes is a little bit of reading in the manual and a few online tutorials. Once you have those basics down, it's really easy to use. And Harmor can do so much that I have barely scratched the surface of it despite using it semi-regularly for years.

Edited for spelling.

[machinesworking]

Linplug Spectral, easily.

It's one of those synths that suffers because of bad presets. And because you really have to dig to make use of its capabilities -- it's not like Diva, where you can turn one knob and get a good result. Spectral is NOT an instant gratification synth.

Yeah, Spectral is a good addition to the list...

Another synth I would add is Sculpture. It is worth buying Logic just to use Sculpture. The organic character of the way it morphs through all sorts of lovely timbres is unique.

Totally agree about Sculpture! I'm thinking about purchasing Logic just to get some older songs back, (left at 8 ), and you reminded me that both Alchemy and Sculpture are included these days. Watching a walkthrough video of LogicX though, man, they really decided to Garageband Pro the hell out of the interface.

[Cubehog]

For me it is Linplug Spectral, too.

I never use presets and always start with an init-patch. So maybe that´s the reason, why I appreciate this synth more than the ones who skim thru preset lists.

The synth itself is not a preset machine per se. When was the point where ppl judged a synth by its presets and thus assumed it was a mediocre,-..--whatever synth?

[jancivil]

To Tony Randall, and I loved him as Felix Unger, if it wasn't classical music, it wasn't music.

These people do exist whether anybody wants to admit it or not.

[...] someone might say that Synth A is a bad synth because it can't do wub sounds or isn't used to make ambient death polka. It's an opinion that most of us will be smart enough to ignore as having little to contribute to the discussion.

the topic 'the estimation of people' tends to the subjective exactly because of that. For my part, Absynth has shown to be estimated narrowly as applicable only to certain sounds, but the problem isn't with it, in itself.

I have no idea what point Tony Randall's 'rock isn't music' is supposed to make. It's kind of off-the-wall at this point in the discussion. He's a snob, I'm a snob. I have also fronted a country band and people bought it. So I don't say shit like that, it's ignorant.

There's two kinds of music, Country and Western.
No wait, good and bad.

[machinesworking]

Seriously, who cares what any of your definitions of music are?
99.9% of musicians are intense music critics, with massive personal bias's about music. Like everyone else their opinions come from some emotional non rational area of their brain, but unlike everyone else they have an unlimited capacity to argue their point.

Yes wagtunes can be a shill for himself, but it seems to me lately half the threads that interest me are infested with people arguing with him. fun....

This place is great, until people derail topics with their endless ego battles about nothing....

Oh, and I agree about Absynth, still use it to this day, even though it could use an update. I really hope NI doesn't abandon it, but NI have that history...

[Phorous]

Oh, and I agree about Absynth, still use it to this day, even though it could use an update. I really hope NI doesn't abandon it, but NI have that history...

Love what they did with Reaktor 6, but really its time they threw their non Reaktor stuff a bone. Absynth especially is feeling long in the tooth, even if it still sounds great. They could give the UI an overhaul and I would program patches with it again.

[mholloway]

Hey guys --

You don't actually think we read your 5+ paragraph posts, do you?

We don't. Ever. Nobody does. Seriously.

So just stop. Your deep thoughts on this bogus argument (or whatever it is) are not interesting. Nobody cares. You're sermonizing to yourself.

RIP thread, it coulda been a nice one.

[pdxindy]

Linplug Spectral, easily.

It's one of those synths that suffers because of bad presets. And because you really have to dig to make use of its capabilities -- it's not like Diva, where you can turn one knob and get a good result. Spectral is NOT an instant gratification synth.

Yeah, Spectral is a good addition to the list...

Another synth I would add is Sculpture. It is worth buying Logic just to use Sculpture. The organic character of the way it morphs through all sorts of lovely timbres is unique.

Totally agree about Sculpture! I'm thinking about purchasing Logic just to get some older songs back, (left at 8 ), and you reminded me that both Alchemy and Sculpture are included these days. Watching a walkthrough video of LogicX though, man, they really decided to Garageband Pro the hell out of the interface.

I never really used Logic before X... so don't have a past to refer to. But it is such an amazing deal. Alchemy is significantly improved since being rolled into Logic, and you get some of the soundsets included. Sculpture could be the price of Logic and I would buy it in an instant. Sculpture could use a new GUI (which is on the way I guess) but there is just nothing else that does what it does. The non-linear responses are so much fun to explore the edges of. Lovely unexpected musical sounds just flow outta that thing!

[wagtunes]

Oh, and I agree about Absynth, still use it to this day, even though it could use an update. I really hope NI doesn't abandon it, but NI have that history...

Love what they did with Reaktor 6, but really its time they threw their non Reaktor stuff a bone. Absynth especially is feeling long in the tooth, even if it still sounds great. They could give the UI an overhaul and I would program patches with it again.

ABSynth's GUI is a train wreck. I never could wrap my head around it and as a result hardly ever use it. Shame, because it doesn't sound nearly as bad as it looks. FM8, not really much better.

[Dasheesh]

This thread gave my dog AIDS thanks KVR.

like

[Dasheesh]

not me...get it?

https://soundcloud.com/djpauljohnson/pa ... n-you-jack

[ghettosynth]

Like the overestimated thread, this entire thread is mostly offtopic. The word cannot mean the same as underrated. To underestimate a synth must mean that, at the time of release, or even at the time the product is taken off the market, less is/was expected of it than it delivers. It is a pre-analysis of the eventual success of the synth, not a post-analysis of the synth's performance.

In that sense the TB-303 was underestimated. Roland did not know at the time the product was taken off the market how successful it would be in defining a genre.

These two threads have a lot of potential for interesting discussion, but not if people think that words don't mean anything. Who cares about another popularity list?

[wagtunes]

Like the overestimated thread, this entire thread is mostly offtopic. The word cannot mean the same as underrated. To underestimate a synth must mean that, at the time of release, or even at the time the product is taken off the market, less is/was expected of it than it delivers. It is a pre-analysis of the eventual success of the synth, not a post-analysis of the synth's performance.

In that sense the TB-303 was underestimated. Roland did not know at the time the product was taken off the market how successful it would be in defining a genre.

These two threads have a lot of potential for interesting discussion, but not if people think that words don't mean anything. Who cares about another popularity list?

Where is the like button when you need one? Thanks. That absolutely nailed it.

[jancivil]

Seriously, who cares what any of your definitions of music are?
99.9% of musicians are intense music critics, with massive personal bias's about music. Like everyone else their opinions come from some emotional non rational area of their brain, but unlike everyone else they have an unlimited capacity to argue their point.

heh, so you never argued politics on facebook, what
I reached my limit here more than once.
I find talking about ideas such as 'what is music' more interesting than talking about estimations of synths I suppose. I don't have most of them or a lot of interest.

Yes wagtunes can be a shill for himself, but it seems to me lately half the threads that interest me are infested with people arguing with him. fun...

This place is great, until people derail topics with their endless ego battles about nothing....

Wait, so it's fun or it's not?
I've linked to a couple of my own works to show something about something, but I'm not being commercial. Whatever. Someone creates too much scrolling to for me as say wags in this thread and it's time to 'foe' I guess. avoid the void...

Oh, and I agree about Absynth, still use it to this day, even though it could use an update. I really hope NI doesn't abandon it, but NI have that history...

Only this year did I upgrade to A5. I'm fine with it as is, A4 on OS X is 32-bit only and that's a PITA. I went thru hell to install Kore 2 on this combo of machine and OS, running it once as 32-bit BROKE IT COMPLETELY so Absynth 5 became somewhat more necessary.