KVR Audio

jobromedia · Post by **jobromedia** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:47 pm

Only one can describe these demos: Wow!

benjamind · Post by **benjamind** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:11 am

Those new demos are phenomenal.

Sounds so real. I never thought anything sample based would sound that good.
I think the real key to the realism is in the morphing, intelligence and sympathetic resonance.

All those things add greatly to the realism, in such a way as to be greater than the sum of their parts.

* Morphing means seamless velocity levels and harmonics (according to what I hear in the demos)

* Sympathetic resonance provides a harmonically rich sound just like on the real thing

* Intelligence means the right strings will be used for the right notes in solos and chords.

So, for want of a better opinion - combining the aspects of physical modeling with the realism of samples. I would say the morphing and sympathetic resonance would have been most responsible for how realistic it sounds.

Now they need to do something for the basses and acoustics side of things. I suspect that will be a lot easier now that they've done Electri6ity. I know they already have a VI for basses and acoustics, but I don't think they have the morphing that Electri6ity does. I hope they release new VIs for the bass and acoustic side of things.

Fantastic job, Vir2. Absolutely fantastic.

And this is coming from a guy who has a reputation for taking the piss out on sample-based VIs.

Electri6ity belongs in the same class as Samplemodeling series of virtual instruments.

Ben

eDrummist · Post by **eDrummist** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:51 am

benjamind wrote:Those new demos are phenomenal.

Sounds so real. I never thought anything sample based would sound that good.
I think the real key to the realism is in the morphing, intelligence and sympathetic resonance.

The above is truly an historic KVR quote, considering it comes from Ben!

I mean, Benjamind has been pretty hardcore hypercritical, even solidly negative against guitar sample libraries in other threads. Benjamin/Dynamitec, you need to savor this moment -- then press print, find a frame and hang that post on the wall in your studio!

- eDrummist

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:42 am

eDrummist wrote:
benjamind wrote:Those new demos are phenomenal.

Sounds so real. I never thought anything sample based would sound that good.
I think the real key to the realism is in the morphing, intelligence and sympathetic resonance.
The above is truly an historic KVR quote, considering it comes from Ben!

I mean, Benjamind has been pretty hardcore hypercritical, even solidly negative against guitar sample libraries in other threads. Benjamin/Dynamitec, you need to savor this moment -- then press print, find a frame and hang that post on the wall in your studio!

- eDrummist

LOL, the only thing that would make him happier is if Elecri6ity were completely done with physical modeling.

Sorry Ben, just some light ribbing on my part!

uselessmind · Post by **uselessmind** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:31 am

Sounds rather interesting.
How about selling the individual guitars seperatly as download versions?

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:51 am

Great demos, eh?

There's one area where I'd be fascinated to see how Electri6ity does - Benjamin is looking into a demo to showcase this. I've currently got Orange Tree Strawberry which is excellent and intelligent - however there are of course things it cannot do. I think the biggest challenge to a guitar VI is in figures which mix open and fretted strings, and slide the fretted strings up and down the fretboard. Dead easy and intuitive to play on a guitar, but near-impossible to play on a keyboard (and to describe)!

What happens is that, say, with the top two strings you could start with an open top E and a D on the B string, then slide that up to an E (so you are getting two strings playing the same note but sound subtly different), then up to an F# (all the while keeping the open E drone). Playing that on a keyboard in real time - wow, there's a challenge...

As I say, Benjamin's looking into this for a possible future demo, can't wait to see how he gets on. This is still a huge reality barrier for certain types of guitar playing, and an area where a real guitar is still in a totally different league to a VI. No shame in failure since it's so hard, but it'll be exciting indeed if it comes close to succeeding...

benjamind · Post by **benjamind** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:00 am

I wish Trilian had this "articulation morphing" technology. Maybe that will be something new for Spectrasonics to work on.

Spectrasonics are very high on my list, and they never disappoint.
If they implemented this morphing technology into their instruments, Trilian and Omnisphere and any others they are working on, it would still be quite a major improvement.

And I don't think it would be all that difficult, the basses they have sampled have a generous amount of velocity layers and articulations, so if they added seamless morphing it would truly be a day of reckoning for bass VIs.

After all, it is the seamless morphing between articulations (slides, squeaks, legato, etc) and dynamics (soft, hard, muted, sustain) that makes physical modeling so attractive to me.

If they can do it properly with samples, then I won't need to concern myself with physical modeling. As a musician I am not interested in how the sound is generated, I am interested in the sound and performance. Before Electri6ity and Strawberry no amount of make believe would have made me bother with samples because they just failed to deliver. But since these two products have come into existence that might change.

Indeed, many musicians have said openly that a hybrid approach offering the behavior of physical modeling (morphing, intelligent, sympathetic resonance and realistic note transitions) and the tonal realism of samples would actually be better than pure physical modeling for all practical purposes. That was a few years ago, but now it still loudly rings true.

Ben

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:09 am

noiseboyuk wrote:Great demos, eh?

There's one area where I'd be fascinated to see how Electri6ity does - Benjamin is looking into a demo to showcase this. I've currently got Orange Tree Strawberry which is excellent and intelligent - however there are of course things it cannot do. I think the biggest challenge to a guitar VI is in figures which mix open and fretted strings, and slide the fretted strings up and down the fretboard. Dead easy and intuitive to play on a guitar, but near-impossible to play on a keyboard (and to describe)!

What happens is that, say, with the top two strings you could start with an open top E and a D on the B string, then slide that up to an E (so you are getting two strings playing the same note but sound subtly different), then up to an F# (all the while keeping the open E drone). Playing that on a keyboard in real time - wow, there's a challenge...

As I say, Benjamin's looking into this for a possible future demo, can't wait to see how he gets on. This is still a huge reality barrier for certain types of guitar playing, and an area where a real guitar is still in a totally different league to a VI. No shame in failure since it's so hard, but it'll be exciting indeed if it comes close to succeeding...

Replying to my own post (!) I just had an idea of how this might be achieved and playable, but don't know if Eletri6ity could be set up in this way.

Have a top octave reserved for the open strings (well it would need to run E5 - E6 to be most logical). The notes would be out of order E, G, A, B, D, top E (to constrain the physical space on the keyboard), but they'd be on the correct musical pitch so should be easy to play. Now, you could choose whatever articulation you liked for the main guitar, but these open strings would always respond just as open strings - no slides, hammer ons etc. But they WOULD respond to playing style - picking, strumming etc.

Would LOVE to see that in action!

K-Slash · Post by **K-Slash** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:15 am

Still waiting for new "amp-sim" demos

.

Any ETA on these Ben ?

Cheers !

dynamitec · Post by **dynamitec** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:36 am

Hello everyone,
As promised I'm having some new - and at moment still inofficial - Electri6ity demos for you. Other than the old demos, those new ones are completely played and recorded live. Not a single keyswitch was used! Except for pitchwheel and modwheel, no MIDI-CCs were used either.
We tried to keep everything as raw as possible. Just like a guitarist who simply takes his guitar and starts improvising.

Legato/Tapping Demos:
Electri6ityLPLegatoTappingNoKeyswitchDemo1.mp3:
http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/demo_new/ ... hDemo1.mp3
Electri6ityLPLegatoTappingNoKeyswitchDemo2.mp3:
http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/demo_new/ ... hDemo2.mp3

Blues/Rock Licks:
Electri6ityLPBluesRockLick1NoKeyswitchDemo.mp3:
http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/demo_new/ ... chDemo.mp3
Electri6ityLPBluesRockLick2NoKeyswitchDemo.mp3:
http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/demo_new/ ... chDemo.mp3
Electri6ityLPBluesRockLick3NoKeyswitchDemo.mp3:
http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/demo_new/ ... chDemo.mp3
Electri6ityLPRockRiffAndSoloJammingNoKeyswitchDemo.mp3:
http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/demo_new/ ... chDemo.mp3
Electri6ityTeleFamousRiffJammingNoKeyswitchDemo.mp3:
http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/demo_new/ ... chDemo.mp3
Electri6ityP90BluesNoKeyswitchDemo.mp3:
http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/demo_new/ ... chDemo.mp3

I hope you like them! Please keep in mind that these are guitar only demos, not a demonstration of some
guitars buried in a mix. I don't think that there is a more challenging way to demonstrate a
electric guitar sample library.

Cheers,
Benjamin

PS: The videos of the recording session will be online soon! Stay tuned and check
http://twitter.com/vir2instruments or http://www.youtube.com/user/vir2instruments for updates!

the_grimace · Post by **the_grimace** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 am

this looks very pormising but a question is, are all the guitars recorded dry? I would want to assume so considering it comes with built in amps and stompboxes, but hey you never know. Also, if they are recorded dry, are there any patches that are amped?

And man, the system requirements for this are up there...

dynamitec · Post by **dynamitec** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:19 am

Hi the_grimace,

yes, everything is sampled completely dry!

Timfonie · Post by **Timfonie** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:50 am

Love the demo's! They sound pretty convincing.

kirbyfighter12 · Post by **kirbyfighter12** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:25 pm

This is great, I honestly never thought something of this calibur could be Achived in the range of Guitar Synth's / VST's.
It sounds Real.I can't wait untill it comes out.

dynamitec · Post by **dynamitec** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:39 pm

Hi everyone,

here is a new demo for you.

Electri6ity Rhythm Demo - not a single keyswitch or CC modulation was used!

Electri6ityLPDeepModernRhythmGuitar.mp3:
http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/demo_new/ ... Guitar.mp3

Here is the MIDI, for everyone who is interested in it:
http://www.benjaminstelzer.de/demo_new/ ... Guitar.mid