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175 posts since 1 Jul, 2009

Postby WMP; Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:50 pm

Wow a lot of myths and stuff flying around here.

Yep I made Phaedra, and yes I also downloaded all the Native Instrument titles and Zero-g stuff from an account that genuinly was not mine.... but makes no difference either way.

If anyone from NI is on these forums reading they will know that it was me who was passing on all the info to Native Instruments and Zero-G regarding when the products were cracked. A lot of the time NI would say to me that this version has the toughest protection ever.... only for me to download the latest 5gb Kontakt Player library mailing them certain files to show that it had been cracked.

I certainly had an interest in releasing Phaedra to a format that would not get cracked immediatly, I accept that it would at some point but would be nice to have 6 months of sales.

Those that know me in the flesh know that I am not really a plugin user or soft synth user. My studio consists of all hardware synths analog and digital. My software consists of Cubase 5, Soundforge 8, Silent Way, Nebula and Kontakt 3.5 and Extreme Sample Creator/Looper. All paid in full and legit.

These are the only soft items that I ever use in the studio, there really is not that much that excites me in the soft world free or unpaid. Sure I checked out my competitors stuff but I can say this:

Phadrea was made with 100% all analog processing and PAID for software.... I mean think about it.... what warez software could be used in making an all analog library? The moment you let a plug in loose on the recorded audio you've lost the whole vibe and truth of the library if that makes sense.

Hardware fx at the time were not used as I kept the library as dry as possible except for a few convolutions that were made using other friends kit. Funnily enough I was not even allowed to use the Convolutions that came with Kontakt as they were copyrited.

These days I still only use hardware.... fx wise I use Eventide H8000FW, Lexicon PCM81 and a long term loan of a PCM92 plus loads of pedals, space echo and vocoders. Phaedra was made not so much to make money but was initially because of my dissapointment of virtual emulations, they just didn't do it for me. Did I make an account on a certain site.... hell yeah I was pissed off 3 years worth of hand edited sampling, last of my savings poured into this project..... but that's my fault and am not looking for sympathy.
Sure I didn't handle it well, I mean the whole project was a stress what with me doing bloody everything and the middle men doing not a lot and messing up what they did do. It was certainly not my idea to call it the "Ultimate Analog Synth" and the mp3 demo's were all wrong etc...

I'm typing all this as I hate it when people get the wrong idea, it will be my last post for sure on KVR as I will not be doing anymore libraries due to concentrating on the music. Sales were great for the first 2 months until the craks came out then bam next to nothing at all.

Have I ever used cracked software in the past..... sure, whilst I was still using an Atari ST until 2002 I had a PC that I used a cracked copy of Cubase VST. Hands up I did it so have most people.... but I went and bought it after 6 months. Tried the waves bundles and for me that was a big moment as I just couldn't see what all the hype was.... to my ears they did not sound good. Uninstalled them and have never used them since.

Bought a UAD-1 card and spent a LOT of money on nearly all the plugins, still didn't do it for me so went totally hardware. The thing is the tools I use I PAY for, it's like being offered stolen music kit, using it just wouldn't feel right. Looking back I did flip out on the forums and quickly reaalised that trying to explain yourself was like pushing noodles up a stream..... life really can be stranger than fiction.

I don't even have issues with people who can't afford Phaedra downloading it, but what got me was hearing people say "oh cool was going to buy this next week, you've saved me a load of money" people who could and would afford it were not paying for it. I would have been happy to have covered my costs and put it down to experiance, in fact I have put it down to experiance...unfortunatly it's not a financialy viable one so back to writing tunes and getting paid enough to make a living for me.

Whatever people think (and my skin is much tougher than before) Phaedra was done with total obsession that nearly cost me my relationship with the other half...... but was done with passion. The loop points were hand done and that takes a LONG time. The gear sampled was stupidly expensive and risky but I enjoyed it, it is what it is... a damn good collection of sampled analog synths. My only regret was that I just sampled straight without using uber mojo gear (an old 1176 was used as I didn't think the Uad-1 was up to scratch).

Personally I think Phaedra should have been $69.99 as $180 is just too much money, not that it's not worth it if you make money doing music but not everyone is a pro. If you want to know the cut I got from each sale well here it is:

£9 or $15 for each $180 unit sold. 99% cost was mine. And if integrity is in doubt, the American guy who did the scripting dissapeard from radar a long time after the completion for Phaedra..... totally could not find the guy. A year later on I found him and paid him as much as I could afford. Could have stitched hime easily but that's not how things are done.

Sure Phaedra is samples but they are recordings of the real thing not a digital emulation. Those that use real analogs know the difference, I did try to give as much contrl as possible with the Interface. Bottom line is the sound. If you want yet another set of Virus Ti samples then buy Nexus, if you want something a little different and dirty, real give Phaedra a go. If I owned the samples I would upload some presets for you to try but I think I would get my arse sued lol.

Ther are a lot of people some quite famous and loaded I know who use warez and you know what .... they are always chasing the NEXT plugin and never learning the tools they have. They end up with hundreds of plugins and can't see the wood for the trees. Less is more and I still stand by my beliefs that emulations do not have the power and sound of the real thing. That might not be important to you but to some it is. Phaedra was supposed to address those people, the marketing was a bit borked. Still it got 5 stars in sound on sound.

But the bottom line: No I did not use warez to make Phaedra! I can not think of any warez that would be needed to make Phaedra? Not needed.... not used.

Haters enjoy the kicking I am sure you are about to give me...... laters all and don't forget to write music, there is more to music than the latest synth, plugin etc..... just get on and write.


47 posts since 21 Aug, 2007

Postby kgbrolic; Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:21 pm

For the record, I just bought this. Hey Sam, I feel your pain. I know I made the right choice in buying this.
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5743 posts since 8 May, 2008, from ssssskipping ......... I left you there

Postby standalone; Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:38 am

Thanks for the explanation Sam. And thanks for Phaedra. I'm sure it will be used for many years.
Reverend Rhythm
2842 posts since 21 Feb, 2003, from Woodstock, GA USA

Postby Reverend Rhythm; Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:07 am

Best of fortune to you Sam. May your music do well. Phaedra made me rethink the whole VA vs Sampler issue. Excellent samples and excellent programing.
esoundz name: ReverendRhythm
406 posts since 15 May, 2006

Postby ViktorW; Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:00 pm

WMP wrote:...If you want to know the cut I got from each sale well here it is:

£9 or $15 for each $180 unit sold.

My God, Sam, I had no idea how little money is going to the dev of such a library. I understand that NI want a share for their player, and that Zero-G want a share for running the business end, but less than 10% to the dev?!?! Is that normal? Maybe I'm naive here and don't know what other costs are involved, but that's tough.
77 posts since 4 Aug, 2014, from Montréal, Canada

Postby slyte; Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:22 pm Re: Zero-G Phaedra - Is it worth $120?

was looking for a review about epica bass.. found this thread. amazing !
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3500 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:28 pm Re: Zero-G Phaedra - Is it worth $120?

I have many products from Zero-G.

It tells you how much I love them !

Especially the cinematic products, the ethnic products, the classical orchestral products (incredibly beautiful violins, cello, flutes, brass and lyric voices) and the ethereal voice products for Ambient.

And so... yes, for me they absolutely ALL are worth their price !

And once you have purchased one of their products (or simply if you have subscribe their news letter) you receive very, very often special discounts (in average once per week but sometimes even two in a same week) which are NOT those publicly announced on their websites... but other discounts which are way, way, way more interesting and reserved exclusively to their customers and to the subscribers of the newsletter (even if nothing hasn't been yet purchased from the subscriber). These reserved discount can go up to 70, 80, and even sometimes 90%!

Two days ago there was a discount for their Total REXX (15.000 excellent Rexx files, with a total of 5 Gb) with 70% off during 24 hours (while the public discount on the website is currently 40% off).

I let you imagine the interest of simply having subscribe the newsletter!

And really... if you like to listen to great voices (Ethera, Ethera 2, Ethera Soul, Velvet, Deeva, Classical Vocal, etc.); great powerful flutes, brass and strings (Classical Vocal, Perpetuo Live Flute, Sax Supreme, Luminoso violins (wonderful for me), Spiritoso cello (idem), Animato strings & flutes (some of the most wonderful phrases ever), etc.); superb ethnic voices and instruments (Eastern Violin, Eastern Flute, Desert Tracks, Celtic, Sounds Of Polynesia, Deepest India, Indian Dance Classics, Flamenco, Middle Eastern sounds, World Pack, etc.), great cinematic effects (Shadowlands, ARC (evolving soundscapes and drones), Other Worlds (for sci-fi and fantasy), Cinematic IDM, Critical Mass... and my preferred: Epica, Epic Horizons, Odyssey, Phaedra, Animato, Deep Impact, Morphology) and much more... honestly all this catalog is a must have, as well for its diversity as for its very great quality !
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
140 posts since 18 Mar, 2006

Postby KeithAdv; Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:53 pm Re: Zero-G Phaedra - Is it worth $120?

After 7 years, this thread is back from the dead! But, as long as we're talking about it, Phaedra is on sale for $69 at Zero-G. Still worth it?
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3500 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:03 am Re: Zero-G Phaedra - Is it worth $120?


And the fact that Kontakt is NOT required to use it (the Kontakt 2 format being very easily convertible but in addition Phaedra having its own interface which doesn't require to have Kontakt) makes it remaining still very valuable for its price.

And you know, when samplesets are really excellent, they are worth forever, because they have their own personality, their own character. It is like old synths: who could say today that synths made 10 years ago aren't worth the price they have today.

Listen to these demos:
Phaedra Demo 1 (mp3)
Phaedra Demo 2 (mp3)
Phaedra Demo 3 (mp3)
Phaedra Demo 4 (mp3)

Phaedra Pad Presets Demo 1 (mp3)
Phaedra Pad Presets Demo 2 (mp3)

Phaedra Synth Presets Demo 1 (mp3)
Phaedra Synth Presets Demo 2 (mp3)
Phaedra Synth Presets Demo 3 (mp3)

Phaedra Bass Presets Demo 1 (mp3)
Phaedra Bass Presets Demo 2 (mp3)

And read the full list of included presets in a PDF file.

Knowing that it features 4 gigabytes of sounds, 20,000 samples and 720 patches, and that you can combine up to 64 instrument for create any combination you want, and that this product is compatible with the Kontakt 2 PLAYER (no need to have the 5th version)... and that now in addition it can be used even without any need of Kontakt player (for those who don't like at all Kontakt, it is the case of some musicians) because it now features its own plugin... so yes, it worth its price of $69.99 today in 2017. From $120 in 2008 to $70 today, I think it is a very good price for today for it's quality of samples, especially when you know that you can use them outside Kontakt.

And for those who love Ambient music, cool music, chillout music, lounge music, Berlin School (Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze, etc.), John Williams (Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc.), John Carpenter (Fog, Halloween, Prince of Darkness, etc.), progressive rock, 70's disco music, Jarre, Vangelis, Kitaro, Kraftwerk, David Bowie, Enya, Era, Suzanne Ciani, Bob Marley, Blondie, etc. I highly recommend it with its samples directly inspired by all these famous styles and musicians.

The quality of these samples made to create Phaedra remains very great today (it is of course my opinion... and I share it, thanks!), and they had been made by Sam Spacey who is far to be unknown in the world of the sample developers with his more recent award-winning Epica which is somewhat its compliment (and which requires simply Kontakt Player, no need to have the full edition of Kontakt), the total of both summarizing more than 1300 patches, 16 Gb, 37.000 samples of excellent quality and which is rated 9/10 by Computer Magazine and 10/10 by Musictech (a note which is quite rare!).

In brief : yes! Pheadra is largely worth its price of $70 today!
Last edited by BlackWinny on Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
140 posts since 18 Mar, 2006

Postby KeithAdv; Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:07 am Re: Zero-G Phaedra - Is it worth $120?

Thank you for the information and demos! I was waiting to see if others would chime in but I guess not. I don't know if that means others have quit using it or not...?

As a side note, I notice that time+space has Epica for a very similar price right now. If you wanted to have these libraries but could choose only one, which would it be?
dark water
887 posts since 2 Jun, 2016

Postby dark water; Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:18 am Re: Zero-G Phaedra - Is it worth $120?

For the OP quoted price (from a few years back) -no it's not worth that much by any stretch.

It's alright and I sometimes use it, but Epica is better value for money, as are many softsynths instead.
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3500 posts since 17 Jun, 2013, from very close to Paris, France

Postby BlackWinny; Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:29 am Re: Zero-G Phaedra - Is it worth $120?

KeithAdv wrote:If you wanted to have these libraries but could choose only one, which would it be?

It depends what kind of music you want to recall to your listeners (and to yourself).

I have both. Phaedra is quasi totally made of samples of pure analog synths (only one out of the ten instruments was a synth having digital part on its sound processing). And Epica is much more based on more recent synths having a lot of digital parts (and a lot of them were even totally digital).

So if you want to recall the sounds of the years between 1975 and 1985, choose Phaedra. If you want to recall more recent sounds of the years between 1985 and around 2000, choose Epica.

My personal preference goes to Phaedra, but it is only because my own sensibility goes mainly to old pure analog synths. I also use Epica from times to times, but then it is for a kind of more "modern" music.

Your choice will therefore be regard your sensibility, your appeal for the years "1975-1985" or for the years "1985-2000".
Build your life everyday as if you would live for a thousand years. Marvel at the Life everyday as if you would die tomorrow.
1995 posts since 9 Mar, 2006

Postby HunterKiller; Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:23 am Re: Zero-G Phaedra - Is it worth $120?

BlackWinny wrote:- incredibly beautiful violins

- lyric voices

- and the ethereal voice products for Ambient

BW could you list which of their products you use for these sounds?
"The educated person is one who knows how to find out what he does not know" - George Simmel
“It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.” - John Wooden
909 posts since 12 Jan, 2014

Postby tatanka; Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:39 am Re: Zero-G Phaedra - Is it worth $120?

Hi Blackwinny,

what do you mean exactly with
it can be used even without any need of Kontakt player (for those who don't like at all Kontakt, it is the case of some musicians) because it now features its own plugin.
, has it is own player engine or is it vst format ? This would be a big argument for me cause my daw racks are usually crowded with kontakt :lol: .

Another question: what do you exactly mean with you can combine up to 64 instruments, how does this work ?

Maybe I have overseen something with this one cause I am not get used to the usual zero-g stuff with phrases, construction kits etc. I really need REAL Instruments that could play my tracks.
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25899 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from a star near where you are

Postby Numanoid; Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:07 am Re: Zero-G Phaedra - Is it worth $120?

KeithAdv wrote:After 7 years, this thread is back from the dead! But, as long as we're talking about it, Phaedra is on sale for $69 at Zero-G. Still worth it?

No, I have been using it for a couple of months, and fail to be impressed.

It is decent, but will not blow anybody's socks off.

VST's have evolved a lot since Phaedra was launched 9-10 years ago. I would rather look at buying a plugin than something like Phaedra these days.

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