One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

[V'ger]

I'll repeat what I said in the competition thread:

The new 'no vote, no placing' -rule that's in play for the first time now may seem dramatic, but let's face it; the 'no vote, no prize' is much more dramatic and that's been for years now.

After all, one loses you a prize worth real money (sometimes a lot), the other nothing except being written bottom of a list.

[chilledpanda]

^^ I don't recall any submit button. Once you put all tracks in 1-5pts box, it shows "All tracks scored" at the top, until then it shows number of tracks left to be scored. People need to pay more attention to the details.
Brian has nailed it as far as voting system is concerned. It hurts me to see people still making mistakes but it's their own fault.

Yeah my wrong was repeating what someone said in the other thread, seems they scored their top 5 an old rule, though wasn't a knock Brian's system, just think this will catch new people out more than regulars.
Sadly didn't have the time to listen and vote this month, though should have some time to listen this week.

[chilledpanda]

I hate to say "I told you so"...

This OSC proved the not voting "phenomenon" may occur more frequent than initially thought and that it can in fact change the outcome of the competition. So don't come and tell me there's no big deal the next time I point out a possible issue, mkay?

All this could have been avoided if ppl would have just voted. It's that simple. Keep that in mind for future OSC editions

The outcome changes either way though regardless . I think the most it proved that some misunderstood the voting rules as some went through the process but didn't succeed in the voting task and got punished for making errors, possibly new comers.

But guess it's not all bad as they post the points of the DQ's, so some solace of knowing how well they did. Though that possibly defeats the point of the rule as if you wan't it to be severe then you kind of need to not publish points, otherwise it leaves it open ending in which song was best.

Anyway guess see how the rule goes. Though doesn't change my opinion that the previous was better for a friendly comp. but that's my opinion.

[satYatunes]

^^^ I totally agree with idfpower's point. The more we argue about "not voting is okay" the more we move towards failure of this contest. It will take the seriousness, commitment away from the competition and any tom, dick and harry will just submit a song and disappear. I will not like to listen, provide feedback and vote 65-70 tracks to find out later that 20-25 of them submitted just for the heck of it (read "fun") and never listened to other tracks and provided feedback. Until unless someone votes it's really questionable whether they even listened to every track.

To me it's okay to show them at the bottom of the list. Whether to write DQ or not, that's all irrelevant cause everyone know why they are on a different list.

Disclaimer: tom, dick and harry, is just a phrase I used, if any contestant has the same name please don't take it personally . It wasn't meant for you.

[crimsonwarlock]

I will not like to listen, provide feedback and vote 65-70 tracks to find out later that 20-25 of them submitted just for the heck of it (read "fun") and never listened to other tracks and provided feedback.

What the hell happened to 'paying homage to the hard work of freeware devs' and 'show what can be done with freeware synths' ??????

Anyone, voting or not, is doing exactly that and putting time and effort into that. I would go so far as to say it's primarily the synth's dev that deserves my listening to the track, and after that the one who made the track (and in doing exactly that benefiting HUGELY from the dev's work, ESPECIALLY if prizes are to be won).

We are really losing perspective here

[bjporter]

Not sure if this helps the discussion, but from the past year I've gathered enough information (this was before OSC.org voting site) to say that people barely listen to the tunes when voting - they skip around. I've done this occasionally, but I prefer to leave the tune at least playing in the background while I'm doing things to give it a real shot.

I'm not saying they do not ever listen to the tunes.

What I find fascinating about this whole discussion is how each person has their own distinct feeling for what it is to be part of the OSC, and that's something to feel proud about really. Hopefully we can find some common ground.

[idfpower]

What the hell happened to 'paying homage to the hard work of freeware devs' and 'show what can be done with freeware synths' ??????

You can do that without submitting a song for OSC I've been doing just that for the past 2 months - but outside of OSC - it can be done

No matter how you take it, the fact is that OSC is a competition. And like any other competition, it has its own rules. If you want to participate, you have to follow them. Common sense.

On the other hand, there's another competition on KVR - see "Music Cafe" - with a more liberal approach; maybe that would fit your workflow better? Or maybe simply posting your work in the MC section and asking for feedback? After all, OSC is just one of the opportunities provided by KVR - not just the only one

[satYatunes]

What the hell happened to 'paying homage to the hard work of freeware devs' and 'show what can be done with freeware synths' ??????

You can do that without submitting a song for OSC I've been doing just that for the past 2 months - but outside of OSC - it can be done

I was about to mention you as an example in my reply. I saw many demo tracks from you on SC for different synths. Thanks for your contribution.

If one really wants to pay homage to a freeware synth then they can just create a track and send it to the dev to showcase it on their website. OSC platform can be used for the same. The only difference is OSC needs more commitment whereas the former one doesn't, you have your own time to make a track and send it to the dev.

[idfpower]

If one really wants to pay homage to a freeware synth then they can just create a track and send it to the dev to showcase it on their website. OSC platform can be used for the same. The only difference is OSC needs more commitment whereas the former one doesn't, you have your own time to make a track and send it to the dev.

Exactly It's actually quite refreshing to break away from the OSC constraints and do things your way from time to time Plus you can pick whatever synth you want instead of trying to cope with a designated one - which sometimes might not spark your creative flow

PS: thanks for listening to my audio demos If even one person gets interested in those synths = mission accomplished

[satYatunes]

Not sure if this helps the discussion, but from the past year I've gathered enough information (this was before OSC.org voting site) to say that people barely listen to the tunes when voting - they skip around. I've done this occasionally, but I prefer to leave the tune at least playing in the background while I'm doing things to give it a real shot.

I'm not saying they do not ever listen to the tunes.

What I find fascinating about this whole discussion is how each person has their own distinct feeling for what it is to be part of the OSC, and that's something to feel proud about really. Hopefully we can find some common ground.

I would be lying if I say that I have never skipped. I have, but I do listen multiple times and once thoroughly before final submission of voting.
It's really questionable whether they are listening to the tunes. Come on, If I listen to a track, it will hardly take a minute or two for me to rate it between 1-5, right. All it takes is to put them in their respective boxes. How long that takes? 15, 20 mins? If I consider all the factors then the only conclusion I can make is they are not taking it seriously. Then I ask myself the same question "why the f** should I listen to their tracks and vote, if they are not doing the same". It's a community after all and run by honor system. It will fail if more and more people show "selfish attitude" towards it.

Edit: Forgot to mention that with your amazing voting system, it's really difficult for me to see why people cannot vote. Plus we have 15 days. wtf? Are people that busy? May be OSC is not for them?

[BlackWinny]

I wanted to participate.

I'll never do.

Because for reason of health (with many stays at hospital) I can find the time to make tunes some months (not all) in a period of 30 days, but definitely I can't NEVER have the time to listen, to sort, and to vote... for EACH tune in a period of only 15 days ! Just for that, I'm definitely forbidden to participate and to express a vote which could count for the others !

Secondly: I totally don't give a damn of the prizes. I have enough excellent synths and plugins here at home to enjoy what I do for still decades. What I wanted was only participate to a kind place where people can talk about their tunes, the tips, the tricks they've used to get so amazing results, the way they compose, the differences between some short raw parts of their tune and their terminated equivalents after some effect or some other one, the reason why they made a choice between two EQ (or between two delays, etc.). And so on... In brief, real discussions on the music, real learning points shared each others and also to encourage and teach the newcomers with examples extracted from their nice tunes, etc.

But what do I see ? Absolutely nothing at all of all that ! Simply people who one after the other submit their new tune and make nothing else than a long list of the effects they used. And that's all!

And at the end... Hop!... the vote, the distributions of prizes, and terminated. Everyone goes to the next challenge.

It was yet discouraging for all the new comers because not only they learn anything about a challenge neither anything about the techniques (music, harmony, melody, construction of rhythms... use of the effects, reasons of the choices) used by the competitors, but now it is even worse since for whichever the reason an incomplete vote (or even the total impossibility to vote in the laps of 15 days, me for very hard reasons of health, others for many other reasons) will be sanctioned by a punishment !

Apart for all the geeks and for all the regular users of the monthly OSC challenge... where is the interest, where is the pleasure for all people who would like to participate? Some will do, yes... one or two new will try, but with your totally absent discussion on the MUSIC art of work itself which is in your tune and with the totally absent consideration to the simple pleasure to participate as would like others... you keep away many people who don't care at all for the prizes but who want to simply participate to a challenge and share thoughts, learn on techniques used for the music that you make to participate yourself!

I wanted to participate. But I don't see the least discussion on your methods, your choices, your techniques... Never! Only "Here is my submission, and here is the list of the effects I used", followed by the others who anwser "Nice track, bravo" (and there's nothing else which begins about the music itself), and then some days ago we see a long suite of "Voted, voted, voted..." And that's all!!! And worse, now I feel totally forbidden to participate in cause of an insane rule which is totally incompatible with the simple pleasure to participate... but also totally incompatible with the time I can spend to vote for many tunes (only 15 days) due for health reasons (for other people it will be for job reasons or many others, you don't think at all of all the people who have missions, job obligations, hard problems with their health, travels sometimes for a full week, etc.). You think only for yourselves! One criteria about the profile was cruelly missing at the beginning or at the end of your vote : "Check between these three definitions : I'm a regular competitor of the OSC, I'd like to become a competitor, I'm not interested to compete but I'm interested to vote". Who has voted, V'ger? Who? Not the names... but the profiles! Probably 90 or even 95% where the regular competitors for months and months! Who else? 2? 3 external persons?

There was yet not really deep discussions on the musique techniques used by the competitors to share their experience and/or to explain it to the newcomers... but now there's no more the least desire to participate from newcomers who just would like to participate to show what they do (awkwardly of geniously) with that same synth! And worse... there are many legitime reasons to not be able to vote!

I'm totally discouraged, and I now feel totally forbidden to participate. Like many others who will prefer to remain silencous because they have perhaps not (or even anymore) the wish to tell their deception.

[satYatunes]

@BlackWinny
I disagree with most of your post, if not all and here is why:

1. To me, it looks like, you have misunderstood the purpose of OSC. It's a challenge/contest/competition. Like every other competition in this world, it has it's rules. If you are in, you will have to abide by the rules or you are out. It's your choice, no one if forcing anyone.

2. Learning techniques, etc. - I would give you couple of examples
- someone asked Jasinski about his technique and he immediately shared his Ableton Live project file in the forum. Isn't that great?
- bjporter has shared many videos, presets and technique on getting percussion sounds out of a synth.
- photonic shared his experience on "Balance Mastering's" work, what they did and their feedback
- v'ger many times shared his experience on different effects and how to use them
- bzur shared what inspired his track for OSC60, shared images, videos, etc.
- bjulin created a video on his techniques
- I have seen so many CPU/RAM optimization techniques when some synth behaves badly.. everyone jumps in to help each other out

I can go on and on, are you even paying attention?

3. No one is stopping anyone (newbie and experts alike) to ask questions about techniques and all.

4. Why do you think that you have only 15 days to vote? I would say 45 days.. the voting window opens for 15 days but you can rate the tracks as they are submitted.. that will take some load off..

5. There are other forums in KVR and elsewhere as well, if you want to just discuss about techniques, etc. why use OSC platform?

6. May be you used a wrong word but no one is "totally forbidden" to participate. Anyone can participate, if they don't vote then they will be shown in another list at the bottom of the main list. They will still get feedback and vote as usual.

7. If you cannot find time to vote for health reason that's fine.. but it shouldn't be every month, right? that's a pattern not a reason.. I am being brutally honest with you here..

8. Last but not the least, OSC is open to anyone, if anyone thinks that they cannot ask question or post in the chat thread because they are not participating then that's wrong..

@jasinski - you have my full attention today for various reasons.. don't be scared.. I am not stalking you

[z.prime]

Yeah, again and to move to this thread, I totally agree with satYa... maybe it's a dev thing.

Let me say, I'm sorry for anyone to have health problems. I don't wish that on anyone. There certainly have been other participants who have had their share problems health or otherwise, though. But Please don't take this as an attack in any way... just trying to illustrate the points I made earlier by way of your own statements in regard to your viewpoints:

I wanted to participate ... I can't NEVER have the time to listen, to sort, and to vote... for EACH tune in a period of only 15 days ... I wanted was only participate to a kind place where people can talk about their tunes, the tips, the tricks they've used to get so amazing results, the way they compose, the differences between some short raw parts of their tune and their terminated equivalents after some effect or some other one ... In brief, real discussions on the music, real learning points shared each others and also to encourage and teach the newcomers with examples extracted from their nice tunes, etc.

So, just to paraphrase: you want to get tips on making tracks but you won't have the time to listen to the other tracks people make? How, then, would you be able to ask someone for advice how they got a sound or achieved a technique? There are plenty of other forums dedicated to that sort of thing, I'm sure... but this is the "One-Synth-Challenge", it's a challenge, not just a forum of music making.

It was yet discouraging for all the new comers because not only they learn anything about a challenge neither anything about the techniques (music, harmony, melody, construction of rhythms... use of the effects, reasons of the choices) used by the competitors,

Was it discouraging for all newcomers (emphasis mine)? I was a newcomer once, I finished much lower than I expected and it made me re-evaluate why and get better! I asked questions and got a lot of good answers. I read online and got a lot of good information and incorporated it into my own tracks. I'm far from perfect, but I didn't have any of that discouragement by the community.

Let me ask: what discussion did you want? Were there specific questions you wanted answered? I didn't see you ask any production/technique/etc. questions, did I miss something? This community is as open as any I've ever seen about sharing things, but you won't find most people explaining things without asking questions...

I forgot to mention it this time, but typically, I also personally announce every challenge at voting time that if anyone wants constructive criticism, I will be happy to re-listen critically to anyone's track who asks for it and provide as many suggestions as I can. That offer always stands!

I don't see the least discussion on your methods, your choices, your techniques... Never! ... You think only for yourselves! ... Who has voted, V'ger? Who? Not the names... but the profiles! Probably 90 or even 95% where the regular competitors for months and months! Who else? 2? 3 external persons? ... And worse... there are many legitime reasons to not be able to vote!

I'm not quite sure where you're going... should be more people voting but people might not vote legitimately? Sorry that we can't make people listen and vote. In fact, that's what the voting rule is all about! If we could make external people join in easily I guarantee you we'd all try to make 100s of people do so! But really, what do you expect? It IS a time commitment to listen to all the tracks. But if you enter the challenge, don't enter just to get feedback on your own tracks. Why should some share knowledge, listen and comment insightfully on tracks but then not have it reciprocated?

[idfpower]

@BlackWinny

- Regarding the track submitting/voting: up until recently the track submitting/voting & the general commnets & chat threads were separated to help the OSC organisers keep better track of the process. That's why there were no further comments other than the required info (daw/synth instances/effects, etc). Ppl were specifically asked not to go offtopic and to keep all conversation for the other thread.

- Regarding tips/techniques/help/etc: IMO the participants are quite helpful; often ppl ask for help regarding various techniques and they get advice during the submitting period; also some participants don't hesitate to share their presets during that very same time - so it's not an "each man for himself" attitude, quite the opposite. On the other hand, even if you don't submit a track for OSC, you can still ask for guidance regarding specific techniques and I'm sure ppl will gladly respond. It's not like someone is checking if you were in, and if not forbids everyone from talking to you

I know it's difficult to understand certain aspects of OSC if you're not following the chain of events continuously. You may be out for 3 months and come back to what seems like a totally different competition - but all the rules changes & procedures occured because certain "flaws" of the system were revealed during the past OSC editions. And like previously pointed out, it is a competition after all - and with pretty juicy prizes, I might add - and that can sometimes make ppl go crazy (and not in the good sense). Of course there will always be ppl that don't agree with what is decided, but fact is that every single change was implemented after ppl voted & the majority decided - so there were no arbitrary changes. I hope it helps understanding better what is going on and why


PS: here's an idea...maybe we can implement an additional section to the OSC page for tracks that weren't finished in time for a specific OSC edition, but the authors would still like to share them Maybe set a limit like tracks made with synths used for the last 2 or 3 OSC editions. Maybe that would calm the spirits down a bit

[Tony Ostinato]

im out of any more osc's, getting 1's and 2's from people was completely crushing and heartbreaking.

theres no way my song was a 1 or 2. people are just being jerks.

i talk more about it in the specific thread.

for me a secret voting system wouldve been more merciful instead of posting up everyones votes on a spreadsheet.

i wouldve been forever blissfull thinking everyone was giving m 3's and up.