One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

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bjporter wrote:[1] More prizes ... [Do challenges normally give out beyond 3rd place? I think having top 5 is already quite generous, no?]
Generally not. However, the competitions that have lots of participants do not really require as much effort to judge (e.g. a marathon), whereas competitions that require more effort to judge, do not have as many contestants (e.g. ice skating, gymnastics). Competitions with a considerable number of participants and judges often do have more prizes to award (e.g. lots of ribbons are given out at science fair competitions). The OSC CM Edition had close to 80 unique contestants.
bjporter wrote:[2] I think we should continue to disallow cover tunes, but we should only disallow original songs that have been included in a vote for a previous KVR OSC....[Has anyone re-done a song in a previous OSC?]
I'm not sure. I could be wrong, but apart from using the exact same title for a song, I doubt if most folks know all of the past OSC entries intimately enough to suspect a re-submission. For example, if Kraftraum's latest "Rotation" was actually a re-working of a previous "Rotation", I doubt most of us would even realize it without going back and listening to all of them. [Side note: Kraftraum's "Rotation" series is a great compilation that is worth listening to from start to finish. :) ] This rule would encourage folks to make use of existing material yet still not enter a song that has already been submitted before. (e.g. Have we yet heard the last of Mike Oldfield's rehashings/re-recordings of his classic "Tubular Bells"?)
bjporter wrote:[3] One way to level the playing field is to take a more purist approach to the OSC by prohibiting the use of all external effects ...[This rule would be like a coup de tat, it'll receive very strong opposition I think. OSC is already quite difficult, and with this restriction it will limit the quality of the songs? I am one of the people who do a fair amount of processing, and that's why I like the OSC - it's a bit of everything - like a triathlon. With just the synth, I may not even like the entries coming out either.]
I suppose it might seem like a coup d'état to some; others might appreciate the greater challenge which would actually focus more on the synth itself; afterall, it is the word "synth" that appears prominently in the challenge's name. ;) I think most folks would agree that such a scenario would level the playing field for everyone. It might be similar to a cooking challenge between chefs to create a dish using the same ingredients and cooking facilities/equipment.
bjporter wrote:One compromise to this rule would be to allow the use of a few effects for mixing and mastering: a reverb, a multi-band EQ, and a compressor/limiter should do it....[Like SDCOMPO sortof right? I guess this is one of the things that sets OSC apart from SDCOMPO besides the tracker rule.]
Interesting... I had not been aware previously of the Soundevotion Competition. After looking at the rules for the latest "round", many of those rules do sound very similar to what I was thinking of, as well as some of the rules that we already have for the OSC. I would say the major difference between the OSC and the SDCOMPO is the sound source: the OSC restricts to a single third-party synth, while the SDCOMPO restricts to a tracker's synth and certain allowed types of samples.

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By the way, I personally liked the color scheme of the previous forum -- the previous light-on-dark approach provided better contrast for my eyes, and it was less blinding in low-light environments. It would be neat if we could set our own color theme in the MyKVR preferences, but I suppose then that the use of colors in forum postings could wreak havoc with a user's individual color theme settings. :hyper:
Last edited by tonedef71 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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It's said that selectable forum color themes should be available before too long.

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V'ger wrote:It's said that selectable forum color themes should be available before too long.
That would be neat. :tu: I'm curious if the assigned colors in forum posts would adapt to look better with the currently selected forum theme. Right now, some of my previous forum posts that use the "[color]" tag look hideous with the new color scheme.

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V'ger wrote:Cheers for the pointers tonedef71.
Thanks!
V'ger wrote:...so it's a logical step to go beyond that and at almost necessary at some point if the number of entries should be extremely high. Or maybe is already, not sure..
Indeed, that is what I was thinking about.
V'ger wrote:About cover tunes I would like to allow them, always have. (as long as they are not violating any copyright rules of course)
Interesting. It actually would be kind of fun to "synth-orchestrate" a Bach fugue or invention, or a folk song like "Greensleeves" or "Scarborough Fair". Perhaps that could be a special future OSC (e.g. "Remix Bach's 'Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring' with Synth X").
V'ger wrote:Would make for dry tracks is my fear.
I suppose it could, but I do think that there is still a lot of cool-sounding possibilities that can be done with just MIDI automation and a few select mixing/mastering effects (reverb, EQ, and compressor).

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Just curious. Are there copyright issues if I record a cover of a copyrighted song and post it on my Soundcloud page? I see other folks posting original covers or DJ re-mixes of copyrighted songs -- did those folks really get permission prior to posting their recorded track on Soundcloud?

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idfpower wrote:As for covers: again - hell no. For the record: you are not allowed to modify someone else's song without the author's ok. The only exception (afaik) is that if your cover is exactly the same as the original - so you don't change a note/beat. Thus in the first case it would be (kind of) illegal to submit modified cover songs, and in the other case it would be pointless - what are you actually doing? Getting the song in MIDI format and then just replacing the instruments/tracks with the OSC synth's sounds? Where's the skill in that?
You can do a cover as a 'tribute' to the original, as long as you don't release it on some commercial channel. Youtube is littered with such covers, so I don't see any problem there.
tonedef71 wrote: I think most folks would agree that such a scenario would level the playing field for everyone.
Please guys, stop using this argument as it is totally wrong in any scope; having rules in place and making sure everyone has access to all options available (as they are FREE) simply does create a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD !!!! There does not exist something like a 'even more level playing field'. The only difference that can not be taken away is the difference in skill level between the participants, and frankly that is one of the things I like about the OSC; when you are not that good yet, you go up against the best and learn both from them and from the experience.

Not being able to use the available (free) tools as good as someone else has nothing to do with a 'level playing field', it just means you are not as good as they are. Seems like a great opportunity to learn ;)
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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crimsonwarlock wrote: You can do a cover as a 'tribute' to the original, as long as you don't release it on some commercial channel. Youtube is littered with such covers, so I don't see any problem there.
Except YouTube is a commercial channel :) Just because ppl can post stuff for free doesn't mean it's a pro bono website :) The only reason those "covers" are still online is that the guys doing it are so unimportant the companies owning the rights to those songs don't bother to go after them. However it happens often to step on a top dog's shoes and then it does happen :)
TELURICA - "Made In ___ [INSERT LOCATION]" - EP.
Available now on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/telurica/sets/ma ... t-location

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idfpower wrote:
crimsonwarlock wrote: You can do a cover as a 'tribute' to the original, as long as you don't release it on some commercial channel. Youtube is littered with such covers, so I don't see any problem there.
Except YouTube is a commercial channel :) Just because ppl can post stuff for free doesn't mean it's a pro bono website :) The only reason those "covers" are still online is that the guys doing it are so unimportant the companies owning the rights to those songs don't bother to go after them. However it happens often to step on a top dog's shoes and then it does happen :)
By 'commercial channel' I meant 'selling it' ;)

It's an unwritten rule (I think) that you can do covers as long as they are not aimed at commercial success and are somewhat recognizable as a tribute performance. However I do acknowledge that certain artists don't want their stuff covered, period. But I think someone doing a cover can decide if they want to pick such an 'original' artist. I know at least that the covers I would like to do would not have a problem in this regard.

Besides, OSC is definitely not a commercial channel, or is it :D
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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crimsonwarlock wrote:Please guys, stop using this argument as it is totally wrong in any scope; having rules in place and making sure everyone has access to all options available (as they are FREE) simply does create a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD !!!! There does not exist something like a 'even more level playing field'. The only difference that can not be taken away is the difference in skill level between the participants, and frankly that is one of the things I like about the OSC; when you are not that good yet, you go up against the best and learn both from them and from the experience.

Not being able to use the available (free) tools as good as someone else has nothing to do with a 'level playing field', it just means you are not as good as they are. Seems like a great opportunity to learn ;)
Making things more uniform for all certainly can help to level the playing field. For example, uniforms for students at private schools; although some inequities (such as comeliness, athletic ability, academic ability, family wealth & standing, etc.) still remain, conforming to a single dress code helps to eliminate a student's wardrobe as a source of (social) superiority/inferiority.
crimsonwarlock wrote:By 'commercial channel' I meant 'selling it' ;)

It's an unwritten rule (I think) that you can do covers as long as they are not aimed at commercial success and are somewhat recognizable as a tribute performance. However I do acknowledge that certain artists don't want their stuff covered, period.
Weird Al Yankovic recorded a parody (which is essentially a cover) of James Blunt's "You're Beautiful" -- his parody was entitled "You're Pitiful". Weird Al was unable to get permission to release the parody on one of his albums, so he offered the track to his fans to download for free from his web site. I believe you can still download the track from other free MP3 web sites.

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tonedef71 wrote:Weird Al was unable to get permission to release the parody on one of his albums, so he offered the track to his fans to download for free from his web site. I believe you can still download the track from other free MP3 web sites.
I think that substantiates my point :D
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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The copyright rules are pretty straight forward so all those Youtube covers are breaking it I'm pretty sure, it's just too huge a matter for Youtube or even the right holders to police so they are just left up. Going after a teenager with a law suit makes no sense and would have the opposite effect, and prowling for covers and sending e-mails to Youtube to take things down is just too time consuming. Besides, it's in a way good PR to have your stuff played on Youtube too. It's not as if the covers will stop any potential customers by thinking "the cover on Youtube is good enough for me, I don't need to go to the concert now!".

I guess we could be as lax as Youtube or other places about it and nothing would probably happen, but we are under KVR so would be rude to risk hassle for Ben as 'thanks' for being here, so if there are to be covers (again) it would be non-copyright material only. But it wouldn't have to be classical or folk music only. If stuff gets freed 70 years after the authors death and we're already 2014, there might be some pre-war stuff that could be used, here's an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6DI6ysDemk

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crimsonwarlock wrote:
V'ger wrote:But a bit ironic that you strive to keep things organic and live and are forced to use a sampler instead of the original instrument in real time.
Well, possibly ironic, but at the same time based on my setup with a drum-pad controller (and pretty soon a sticks-based drum-bed setup).
Have a look at the track template MIDI note-to-channel, it will allow for hardware control.
crimsonwarlock wrote:
V'ger wrote:Hopefully a computer upgrade is not far away.
I could get a much more powerful computer right now. It's the whole song and dance of actually moving all my hardware-controllers (CME UF5, Roland RD-150, Alesis Vortex, Yamaha WX5, Kort padKontrol, Tascam US-2400) onto a new system. I'm also contemplating to move to Linux for my DAW when I jump to a new system, and that doesn't make this a quick fix in any scenario :D
Lot's of nice stuff, I would love to try a MIDI flute like Yamaha WX5 one day. There is a thread somewhere on the Reaper forums with a guy using either a MIDI trumpet or clarinet type like the WX5 and has the most fabulous and complex live setup with every expression mapped and routed as he is a professional musician (very good player!), but also combined with triggering loops etc so he can do a fab solo routine, I will post the link to the thread if I can find it as he shares all his tricks.

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Thanks for the WX5 tips and the video link, lots of nice tricks in there.
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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I voted. I like OSC as it stands. I think the only thing I voted to change is the prizes rule. It's certainly acceptable as is, but if the sponsors were willing to step it up, I think a scheme like ToneDef's that consistently rewards the top 15% or so would be very nice. (Although I don't personally expect to crack top 15% in 2014, sometimes the top 20% all sound worthy of prizes to me)

Considered voting against the rules about composed for this competition, because it'd be nice to get a head start on the writing process. However, for me part of the appeal of OSC is forcing a full composition process within one month. Yes it's hard, but I think that's a key part of the Challenge. Also, my understanding is that nothing prevents you extending your OSC entries after, for non-OSC purposes, turning them into larger works, so it's not overbearingly restrictive.

As to the covers argument, I agree with idfpower. Composition and arrangement could then be factored out if you suck at them, and that's unfair to those who are trying to learn composition and arrangement but aren't great yet. (I will never ever EVAR be Gershwin great; I tried learning one of his/their songs on piano a few years back, OMG the complex chords &c; props for that vid, V'ger) Voting would be even more agonizing, as some people would be getting judged on half the skillset of others. If covers were allowed in OSC, I'd mark them down (because they demonstrate only sound design/selection and mixing skills) and if they dominated OSC I'd move on. A separate covers competition would be another story, if someone cared to host it.

Finally, regarding external FX. I came to OSC as a venue to practice modern electronic music production. Eliminating or drastically restricting FX would be true to the original notion of OSC, but kill it for me personally. I'd expect everything to sound like Tangerine Dream. I may be from the '70s, but I've no desire to go back.

Totally my opinion as an OSC n00b of course.

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psmacmur wrote:I'd expect everything to sound like Tangerine Dream.
Now wait a minute there, you're not getting away with dissing one of my favorite electronic acts of the old days :x

:D
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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