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aciddose
KVRAF
 
11521 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Postby aciddose; Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:48 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:Your argument makes the case for the contrary, also. If the tools are of no influence at all, then why wouldn't they be a from standardised selection?


For the simple reason that it creates some major issues. For example not all plug-ins are compatible in all hosts on all platforms, but given that you have a synth plug-in that works on Windows, OSX and Linux there are plenty of EQs to choose from for any platform. You could even wrap a Windows VST using Wine on Linux (also possible with much effort on OSX/AU) in a host that only supports LADSPA effects or similar and it would still fit with the rules of the contest.

My opinion is that it does not make much sense to include rules that reduce the participation rate.

Having to use only portable and stable effects that are continuously updated and patched would severely limit the effects available. To what really, none at all?
Xhip Synthesizer v8 (WinXP, Linux and MacOS alpha versions are available.)
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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
 
8703 posts since 24 May, 2009, from A galaxy, far far away

Postby el-bo (formerly ebow); Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:39 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

aciddose wrote:would severely limit the effects available. To what really, none at all?
.

A compressor, delay, reverb, and filter are all the tools necessary, which I'm sure can be sourced cross-platform. However, I hadn't really considered Linux. Still, I bet it isn't too hard :shrug:
generaldiomedes
KVRist
 
164 posts since 14 Apr, 2017

Postby generaldiomedes; Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:01 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

As long as all the endless discussions of which effects, which VSTs, which platforms, 32-bit vs 64-bit, how much you can turn them up, exceptions for this reason or that reason, etc. don't get in the way of making music. I also partly come here to learn about new techniques and new plugins .. so perhaps just a simple rule of 'no DAW effects' would still suffice. But then again I also like to learn more about my chosen DAW.

As for restricting midi automation, I can't agree to that .. I also partly come here to hone my automation skills, and lets face it .. many of these VSTs have little in the way of modulation.
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aciddose
KVRAF
 
11521 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Postby aciddose; Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:26 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:A compressor, delay, reverb, and filter


That's quite difficult too in that it would be next to impossible to satisfy everyone with a "reasonable" or "practical" selection of effects. This is because we tend to take inspiration of an imagined abstract "sound" and aim to achieve that with the tools we have. When the tools don't match up with what we imagine it can ruin that inspiration.

It definitely is interesting to work without any additional processing and just use 100% raw output from the synthesizer. I don't think effects really influence the sound so much in most cases though that you couldn't easily imagine how it would sound with or without effects. Even the majority of demo clips for commercial products use high quality effects and for good reason: it doesn't change the sound of the synthesizer but it does add an enormous level of quality and interest ("polish") to a clip that would otherwise sound "plain".

Effects are important but I don't agree they're as important as people make them out to be. A winning composition would still very likely win with or without effects just as much as a poorly scoring composition would still score poorly with or without them.

So for those interested in working without them it makes sense to do so voluntarily. I think forcing people to conform may simply destroy their inspiration or interest in composing for the competition.
Xhip Synthesizer v8 (WinXP, Linux and MacOS alpha versions are available.)
Xhip Effects bundle v6.7 New: Resizable/skinnable/configurable GUI. (Linux and MacOS alpha versions are available.)
generaldiomedes
KVRist
 
164 posts since 14 Apr, 2017

Postby generaldiomedes; Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:07 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

Soundcloud in deep financial trouble?

https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/12/soundshroud/

I sure hope that someone buys them and turns it around, OSC may have to look for another home?
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
9123 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:04 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

aciddose wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:A compressor, delay, reverb, and filter


That's quite difficult too in that it would be next to impossible to satisfy everyone with a "reasonable" or "practical" selection of effects. This is because we tend to take inspiration of an imagined abstract "sound" and aim to achieve that with the tools we have. When the tools don't match up with what we imagine it can ruin that inspiration.

It definitely is interesting to work without any additional processing and just use 100% raw output from the synthesizer. I don't think effects really influence the sound so much in most cases though that you couldn't easily imagine how it would sound with or without effects. Even the majority of demo clips for commercial products use high quality effects and for good reason: it doesn't change the sound of the synthesizer but it does add an enormous level of quality and interest ("polish") to a clip that would otherwise sound "plain".

Effects are important but I don't agree they're as important as people make them out to be. A winning composition would still very likely win with or without effects just as much as a poorly scoring composition would still score poorly with or without them.

So for those interested in working without them it makes sense to do so voluntarily. I think forcing people to conform may simply destroy their inspiration or interest in composing for the competition.


See, I just can't agree with this at all. If this were true, record producers would save as much money as possible on equipment and just record everything dry and unprocessed. And we both know that can't be farther from the truth.

The masses listen to music that is drowned in production, good song or not. To do it any other way, on a commercial level, is suicide.

Look, I've been hacking around the music business since I was 20 years old. I'm going to turn 60 in November. I can't tell you how many A&R men, publishers, agents and God knows who else, told me "Look, it's a good song but the production quality is bad. No label looking for a "song" is going to listen past the first few notes with these productions. You have to basically have a "radio ready" song for anybody to even take a listen."

That's the reality of the business. And the reason it's the reality of the business is because no "consumer" is going to listen to a song on the radio that isn't "professionally" produced. And a HUGE part of that professional production, probably today more than even 40 years ago, is FX.

And I'm not talking sci fi FX. I'm talking a good reverb or delay, especially on vocals.

We all want to believe that the "song" does and should be all that matters. But that can't be farther from the truth in the business world.
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aciddose
KVRAF
 
11521 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Postby aciddose; Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:25 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

So your argument is that a winning composition would score very poorly without effects while a poorly scoring composition with certain effects would win?

There is an idiom that comes to mind; "Garbage in, garbage out."
Xhip Synthesizer v8 (WinXP, Linux and MacOS alpha versions are available.)
Xhip Effects bundle v6.7 New: Resizable/skinnable/configurable GUI. (Linux and MacOS alpha versions are available.)
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Daru925
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154 posts since 20 Mar, 2015, from Nerima, Tokyo

Postby Daru925; Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:17 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

If you want to win a challenge, just change your username to Swagtune.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
9123 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:56 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

aciddose wrote:So your argument is that a winning composition would score very poorly without effects while a poorly scoring composition with certain effects would win?

There is an idiom that comes to mind; "Garbage in, garbage out."


No, that's not what I said. Read what said. What I said is all that I said.

Agree or not agree, it is a fact of the business.

And FWIW, there have been some damn horrible songs in the history of popular music that have been huge hits because of their slick productions.

Please don't make me post them all.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
9123 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:04 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

Just for the hell of it, here's one from 1988. Please don't tell me this is a song. It's all production. I remember the first time I heard this I couldn't believe it was a hit. Peaked at number 2 on the Billboard main chart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc9LkE0vpvk

And our industry is littered with shit like this.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
9123 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:40 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

Here's one from 1972 that's just a riff played over and over and some percussion. It was a big hit because it sounded like she was f**king on the record. In fact, this song was banned on many radio stations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHTLIuNRB2Y

Production is EVERYTHING in this business. I was told this personally by industry professionals while I was desperately trying to get my songs heard.

Production, production, production. The song is secondary.
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aciddose
KVRAF
 
11521 posts since 7 Dec, 2004

Postby aciddose; Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:15 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

I'm just curious here: how is that relevant to the question of whether it would be practical to impose more strict limitations regarding effects in the OSC competition?
Xhip Synthesizer v8 (WinXP, Linux and MacOS alpha versions are available.)
Xhip Effects bundle v6.7 New: Resizable/skinnable/configurable GUI. (Linux and MacOS alpha versions are available.)
generaldiomedes
KVRist
 
164 posts since 14 Apr, 2017

Postby generaldiomedes; Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:17 am Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

I would have thought at least somebody would have found the fact Soundcloud is on the verge of collapsing at least mildly interesting ..
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
9123 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:09 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

aciddose wrote:I'm just curious here: how is that relevant to the question of whether it would be practical to impose more strict limitations regarding effects in the OSC competition?


It's relevant because of your comment about the song being more important than the FX.

Go on. Let's have an OSC with no FX at all. Just dry synth sounds. Can't even use the built in synth FX if they have any. And let's see how good the tracks sound.

Trust me, not very.
mehum
KVRist
 
406 posts since 24 Feb, 2015, from Stockholm, Sweden

Postby mehum; Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:43 pm Re: One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

generaldiomedes wrote:I would have thought at least somebody would have found the fact Soundcloud is on the verge of collapsing at least mildly interesting ..


Yeah, that's a bit worrying... What other sites does generous hosting? I tried hearthis.at a while ago but it wasn't very mature at the time. May have changed since.

I don't see it as a danger to OSC though. Worst case scenario: everyone has to self-host on dropbox. Certainly not as accessible but serviceable.
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