Tone2 Saurus Teaser - Competition - KVR Giveaway

[Bronto Scorpio]

I feel sad.

+1

[himalaya]

Hey, no problem... turn up a bit of resonance and then some feedback and here is one example of what you get or worse... (feedback 2/3's)... I get all sorts of awful sounding crap when I use feedback and resonance... I didn't suggest it always sounds like this, but it often does when I am not trying to make it so... I can post examples all day

Sure! As I said, there is also that sound. But! My outlook is to find the sweetspot of each synth. We could make every VA sound harsh. Here's DIVA doing its contribution to harshness with some feedback -divine mode- (and yet Diva can be made to sound fantastic! Sorry for the comparison. Again, some context is needed):

http://www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/ ... edback.mp3



And here, another Surus feedback sound, this time brighter, and yet it still manages to sound full, musical, with a woody quality which I find appealing:

(delay used to set the sound in some space)

http://www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/ ... edelia.mp3

The feedback knob is set to max! Drive and Tube mid way resonance at 10 o'clock, LPF cutoff at 9 o'clock. These are the necesarry parameters within which this feedback functions the best: Drive, LPF, Tube effect.

A sound designer cares about the end result and knows how to get there.

Sure. But pdxingy is also a sound designer, a very good one at that, his Zebra sounds are absolutely sublime, if he wanted, he could make all those parameters in Saurus make work, He can manage a huge modular synth like Zebra, and yet is lost with a simple VA which requires only a few parameters to make it sound fab. This isn't rocket science. Turn up feedback up? Don't like the sound? Turn the cutoff down a bit. Still not as nice? Turn the Drive up a bit, perhaps the Tube effect, set the envelopes..etc. It's a matter of a few seconds. If you don't watch these parameters you may end up with a harsh sound, just like you can in Diva, example above (sorry for the comparison).

[Bronto Scorpio]

We do not have to give technical details nor post source codes of our products here. If you are interested in our technology we will offer you fair licensing conditions.

I usually don't take part in this kind of discussion but that was hillarious

Seriously Markus. Your products are great. They can speak for themselves. No need to talk bad about other developers. That's certainly not what I'd call a "business relatioship on a professional level".
There is another developer on KVR who constantly does this and everyone is annoyed.
Funnily enough these attacks are always against Urs. I guess his plugins can't be that bad.

Cheers
Dennis

[izonin]

@Urs:
I ve tried to call you on the phone yesterday. There is something serious about that we should talk. I mainly refer to a business relatioship on a professional level. Yesterday I wasn't able to talk to you, because there was only an answering machine. So please call me because i want to avoid a mud war in the public.

Beside of that we think that it's time for you to move on, since this thread is about Saurus and not about your products or for the purpose of advertizing your products.

We do not have to give technical details nor post source codes of our products here. If you are interested in our technology we will offer you fair licensing conditions.

I've sent you a PM with my phone numer. So please call me and we'll find a solution.

I bet one of them is from East and the other from West Germany.

[Ingonator]

Q: What filters does Saurus have?
A: Saurus models a 12 dB Chamberlain and a 24 dB Butterworth filter. The filters have a 0-delay. Unlike the false claims of one of the sound designers from Urs there is also a 0-delay in the feedback path.

Hi Markus,

this is a little confusing as the 24db Lowpass filter shows "24dB Moog Lowpass" in the display when choosing it.
In your description at your website you compared the 12dB lowpass filter to a Curtis 12dB lowpass filter so i thought the model is based on a certain Curtis IC (maybe Oberheim or Prophet):
http://tone2.com/html/true_analog_model ... hnolo.html

I don't know much about "Butterworth" filters (i just checked at Wikipedia) but is the 24dB in Saurus based on a Moog model or not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterworth_filter

UPDATE:
Looks like the answer is here:

Q: Does Saurus have a Moog filter?
A: No. An early alpha contained it, but in the beta it was replaced with the Butterworth, because it sounded better. The 24 dB filter in the GUI is labeled wrongly, because i forgot to replace the old 'Moog' text with 'Butterworth'. The wrong label has no effect on the functionality or the sound of the plugin. It will of course be fixed in the next update. Sorry about this confusion.

I overlooked that part. Hope this is corrected in the next update for less confusion.
The filter sounds good anyway no matter if it's Moog or not Moog.
Funny thing is that i posted a comparison with my Moog Slim Phatty and the difference did not seem not very big.

Just found this about Chamberlin filters:
http://cnx.org/content/m10479/latest/


Ingo

[Bronto Scorpio]

@Urs:
I ve tried to call you on the phone yesterday. There is something serious about that we should talk. I mainly refer to a business relatioship on a professional level. Yesterday I wasn't able to talk to you, because there was only an answering machine. So please call me because i want to avoid a mud war in the public.

Beside of that we think that it's time for you to move on, since this thread is about Saurus and not about your products or for the purpose of advertizing your products.

We do not have to give technical details nor post source codes of our products here. If you are interested in our technology we will offer you fair licensing conditions.

I've sent you a PM with my phone numer. So please call me and we'll find a solution.

I bet one of them is from East and the other from West Germany.

[hakey]

i want to avoid a mud war in the public

Translation: I threw a fair bit of mud and thought I'd got away with it, but now that some mud is coming back my way I'd quite like it to stop.

Epic Feil.

[4damind]

I bet one of them is from East and the other from West Germany.

LOL, you have luck Markus is from Bavaria and Urs from Berlin. But some funny guys saying that Bavaria is a own country outside Germany

[Sampleconstruct]

WOW, another Popcorn thread

[pdxindy]

Hey, no problem... turn up a bit of resonance and then some feedback and here is one example of what you get or worse... (feedback 2/3's)... I get all sorts of awful sounding crap when I use feedback and resonance... I didn't suggest it always sounds like this, but it often does when I am not trying to make it so... I can post examples all day

Sure! As I said, there is also that sound. But! My outlook is to find the sweetspot of each synth. We could make every VA sound harsh. Here's DIVA doing its contribution to harshness with some feedback -divine mode- (and yet Diva can be made to sound fantastic! Sorry for the comparison. Again, some context is needed):

http://www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/ ... edback.mp3

That is as harsh as you can make Diva... and it is still way less aliased than Saurus... I spent 30 minutes doing my honest best to make Diva sound as aliased as Saurus does and couldn't come close... Come on... I don't believe for a second you do not recognize the difference that the extra oversampling makes! It's like night and day! You know it very well from Synth Squad and I have heard you say as such.

It is total bullshit to say Saurus is just more optimized. It isn't. It has less overall sound quality in exchange for lower cpu.

I am spoiled by the fidelity of Diva (and Synth Squad and Bazille) and do not want to get new low cpu synths. I want to have the option. I like the feature-set of Saurus and the OSC FM/AM and feedback are up my alley. Have a low cpu mode for those who want that and give me a "Divine" mode so I can have the sound quality I want. It is not an either or proposition as Synth Squad demonstrated.

Btw, I would have posted up some pleasing (for me) sounds from Saurus if the damn demo didn't shut down before I got to something I was really happy with. It is about the most frustrating demo I have tried and it makes me cranky. Maybe you were a beta tester and so you have not had to use it.

[Urs]

@Urs:
I ve tried to call you on the phone yesterday. There is something serious about that we should talk. I mainly refer to a business relatioship on a professional level. Yesterday I wasn't able to talk to you, because there was only an answering machine. So please call me because i want to avoid a mud war in the public.

Beside of that we think that it's time for you to move on, since this thread is about Saurus and not about your products or for the purpose of advertizing your products.

We do not have to give technical details nor post source codes of our products here. If you are interested in our technology we will offer you fair licensing conditions.

I've sent you a PM with my phone numer. So please call me and we'll find a solution.

I'm not interested in your source code (let alone technology licenses) and I'm not interested to talking to you on a phone.

I'm only interested in how you come to the conclusion that our software is less accurately modeled than yours ("a mere approximation"), and badly optimised. Because this is what you say and this is where I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

You put that out in the public, not me. Really, putting my name out there in the first place felt pretty much like an invitation, no? How would *you* feel if I posted "The competing product doesn't even come close and sounds like crap" in forums?

But you're right, I should be staying out of here and let you continue to bash your competitors alone, without giving them a chance to verify your hilarious claims (because that would be advertisement, wouldn't it?)

[Fritze]

www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/Saurus/ ... edback.mp3

http://www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/ ... edelia.mp3

You really know how to compare apples and oranges, don't you?


EDIT: Deleted the second part of my posting. I made a wrong conclusion and made a wrong statement therfor. It's cleared with himalaya.

[Fritze]

@Urs:
I ve tried to call you on the phone yesterday. There is something serious about that we should talk. I mainly refer to a business relatioship on a professional level. Yesterday I wasn't able to talk to you, because there was only an answering machine. So please call me because i want to avoid a mud war in the public.

Beside of that we think that it's time for you to move on, since this thread is about Saurus and not about your products or for the purpose of advertizing your products.

We do not have to give technical details nor post source codes of our products here. If you are interested in our technology we will offer you fair licensing conditions.

I've sent you a PM with my phone numer. So please call me and we'll find a solution.

I bet one of them is from East and the other from West Germany.

Nope.

[mkdr]

Wow.. just listened to the sound demos from tone2 website. This synth sounds amazing! The right kind of harshness and mid-spectrum character like some great 80s polysynths. It seems to go to other areas too, which is great. Must buy for me personally!


And as it seems to be the topic for today.. Diva didn't do anything for me.
Bought ACE though

[himalaya]

www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/Saurus/ ... edback.mp3

http://www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/ ... edelia.mp3

You really know how to compare apples and oranges, don't you? It's ok to speak for the people who pay your bills but to discredit yourself in the eyes of people who understand what you did here isn't worth it IMHO.

On no.

Have you really missed all that I wrote, the whole sense of all that I wrote and contributed?

I speak out of my own will and accord. All I've contributed is context. There was a lot of opinions expressed in this thread and I tried to supply audio demos which put these opinion in context. You can certainly translate my actions in a negative light, and yet they are meant to bring some positive aspects.

Apples and oranges? A VA's feedback with another VA's feedback? pdxingy supplies a harsh sounding feedback example, and I say that such harsh sound can be obtained in all VA synths which offer drive and feedback, by providing an actual demo (not an opinion, but actual sound). Then I show how the feedback in Saurus can be made to sound very nice, which it can in Diva too (as I wrote!).

The Diva example should be taken in relation to pdxindy's Saurus feedback demo. That is the comparison, not my Saurus clip in your quote!

Please, do not be offended, and perhaps try to see everything in its right context.