KVR Audio

braj · Post by **braj** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:39 am

AnalogModelled wrote:If you want Analog sound get DIVA. If you want crappy virtual analog sound get Sylenth.

I don't think that's fair, they are two different animals. It all depends on what sound you want. I'm sure plenty would be happier with Sylenth if that suits their needs more.

xx JPRacer xx · Post by **xx JPRacer xx** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:56 am

DIVA for the sound, Sylenth for the CPU. Or maybe wait a little for Saurus, should have both the sound and low CPU.

JimmiG · Post by **JimmiG** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:38 am

declassified wrote:Please, before you say "apples and oranges" etc read on

So I'd like to buy a VA synth, my budget is around 150€. In my songs I don't really use a lot of synths (I work more with audio and effects), usually just one for bass and maybe one for supporting pad/chords. So this will be the synth I'll use 100% of the time I need a synth. I have been trying Sylenth1 for a while and I like how quickly it can get my the sound I need and how easy it is compared to the variety of sounds it can do. I don't like the presets though, they're too trancy/clubby for my taste (my music is more jazzy/"deep"/soulful). I prefer deep, creamy vintage synth sounds over edgy, loud sounds.

I tried Diva because everyone's raving about it, and of course the sound is good. I can't really hear how it sounds "more analogue" than Sylenth1, though. Maybe I'll heear it later when I have used it more often. I think Diva's CPU usage isn't that much of a problem because I'll only use one or two instances per project (a 3x polyphonic pad takes 5% CPU on my 1.7Ghz Core i5). The GUI and workflow is a little strange to me, but I haven't used it as much as Sylenth1, maybe I just have to get used to the different modules.

Which one would you recommend?

One of the great strengths of Sylenth1 is precisely that. You can quickly "dial in" a great sound without much effort. It almost feels like cheating sometimes. However it's best for bright, bold sounds (trance, rave etc.) due to its effects, supersaw-type oscillators etc.

I've only tried the demo version of Diva. The difference is there, but it's sublte. In my opinion, you'll only really hear these kinds of differences at certain combinations of (usually high) resonance settings and cutoff values, or when slowly sweeping the filter. At more "common", moderate settings, most digital filters sound rather good, IMO. It's when you really push them that some of the "cheaper" (in terms of quality, not always price) digital filters break apart.

For what you describe, especially the "jazzy" and "soulful" part, I would recommend you take a look at the ME80 as well:
http://www.memorymoon.com/me80.htm
If you have a keyboard with aftertouch, it can sound really "soulful" and deep. It's cheap, but sounds great, and there's a free demo you can try.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:22 am

JimmiG wrote:At more "common", moderate settings, most digital filters sound rather good, IMO. It's when you really push them that some of the "cheaper" (in terms of quality, not always price) digital filters break apart.

Fully agreed. In fact, Diva's "prediction" of the output sample is not needed without resonance. Thus, at no resonance her Fast mode sounds exactly like Draft, and what other synths would sound like if modeled after the same circuit with the same dose of oversampling.

It would be interesting to make a study to see if the preference of sound has changed from "plenty of resonance" in the 70ies towards "maybe not too much of it" in recent years. I tend to think that synthesists have become more generous with resonance in Diva than they were in other virtual analogues. To be honest this might as well be wishful thinking.

standalone · Post by **standalone** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:58 am

JimmiG wrote: or when slowly sweeping the filter.

Yeah, that's what brought tears to my eyes.

Arksun · Post by **Arksun** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:24 pm

Depends on the OPs needs. What type of sounds do you like to make, genre?.

If you like to make a lot patches with multiple voice unison sounds, Sylenth might be a better bet simply cause it can handle 8-voice unison per oscillator voice all 4 voices running with low cpu hit. Trying to do that in Diva will completely bring the cpu to its knees.

If the sound of the filter is important to you and having a wide range of different filter flavours, I would pick Diva over Sylenth.

Both synths have a fairly simple synth engine (relative to the likes of say, Zebra, Alchemy or SynthMaster which you can do soo much more with), but there are differences in routing that again restrict particular types of sounds more to one or the other.

But hey both versions have demos, just try em both out for a few days and see

declassified · Post by **declassified** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:14 pm

Thank you all for the opinions so far!

It seems to be consistent with the feeling I had when working with Sylenth1...I could get the basic sounds quickly, but they didn't have more than the basic sound, no pleasant surprises.

The more I'm playing with Diva now the more I like it...it's not like Sylenth1 where most presets make me turn the volume down because it's too loud. I especially like the voice modulation (like on polyKB II), where every note sounds slightly different. I love this kind of variation that you would also have in an acoustic instrument.

I've been using the free synths quite a lot, Synth1 and FreeAlpha mainly, but also FXpansion Orca (great sound, but hard to program "with a destination"). I tried impOSCar but found it a little aggressive. So yeah, I hear differences in sound, but I can't really pin them down exactly. Presets play a big role too I guess. The point is, for now I want to focus on one synth and learn it inside out, as opposed to 5 different freeware synths that each fill a special gap.

To be more concrete about my "deep/jazzy/soulful" description, here are some examples of what sounds I want to do:

Lead synth from 2:47
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v61nzW7YL4

The pad at 1:30
http://soundcloud.com/losing-suki/last- ... stories-ep

Chords at 3:06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiNeGxMkzM8

Am I on the right track with Diva?

Phase47 · Post by **Phase47** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:28 pm

Urs wrote:It would be interesting to make a study to see if the preference of sound has changed from "plenty of resonance" in the 70ies towards "maybe not too much of it" in recent years. I tend to think that synthesists have become more generous with resonance in Diva than they were in other virtual analogues. To be honest this might as well be wishful thinking.

I think there's some truth in this. If something tends not to sound so good across many instruments/plugs (digital filters/resonance), the usage dries up, trends and habits change - and this over decades now. Going forward, with better/faster CPU, we could very well see that kind of resurgence with resonance specifically, since yeah, it's starting to get really very good - not the (broadly speaking) icy mess from the 80s or the poor emulations of the 90s.

Diva sounds very rich in this area - I don't think it's necessarily wishful thinking. If it sounds good, people will use it. It just takes time to reverse habits and trends. Not an immediate process.

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:00 pm

breakmixer wrote:I'd recommend you get Diva if your system can handle it, seems LD doesn't seem to be actively supporting his Sylenth, not like Urs anyway.

2 other synths I'd recommend would be Xils-Lab - Synthix, if you could be prepared to learn the layer locking routine(I couldn't, it had a fantastic sound but too steep learning curve for me so I sold it) and the other synth that has a great sound and plenty of presets more suited to you would be Sonic Projects - OP-X and it's different versions...

Thanks, the Synthix 1.25 update will make it much more easy to manage layers, getting rid of the locked layer feature ( wich was initially to help the easy "one panel" edit mode but well .... )

For those who compared Sylenth, they forgot to say that Sylenth has 4 oscillators, that it also have ...... two filters, that the routing of the osc to filters is very flexible, that each oscillator has some modulatable phase parameter, wich is different than PWM but is interesting, that it has an additonal third assignable enveloppe, so that you can have two different envelopes for the two filters for example, and that finally, it is also stereo directly on the oscillator level ... there are other differences like additional effects etc but well, just to say that Sylenth can do some instruments that some other synths just cannot do.

Then, for those who think Sylenth is just made for Tarnce music, I'd suggest thay give an hear to our Sylenth Music Box soundset demos, created by Kelvin Ford

and wich will eventually demonstrate that it can sound soulfull and inspiring in other musical genres.

LtZ

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:21 pm

Lotuzia wrote:
For those who compared Sylenth, they forgot to say that Sylenth has 4 oscillators, that it also have ...... two filters, that the routing of the osc to filters is very flexible, that each oscillator has some modulatable phase parameter, wich is different than PWM but is interesting, that it has an additonal third assignable enveloppe, so that you can have two different envelopes for the two filters for example, and that finally, it is also stereo directly on the oscillator level ... there are other differences like additional effects etc but well, just to say that Sylenth can do some instruments that some other synths just cannot do.

Then, for those who think Sylenth is just made for Tarnce music, I'd suggest thay give an hear to our Sylenth Music Box soundset demos, created by Kelvin Ford and wich will eventually demonstrate that it can sound soulfull and inspiring in other musical genres.

LtZ

I do like the modulatable phase in Sylenth... but the lack of PWM, hard sync, no modulation of or deeper control of the envelopes, limited modulation targets etc is what makes Sylenth always sound kinda the same... an enjoyable sound in many cases... but it has little variety... Sylenth sounds good, but it is not characterful

I just listened to the sound demos you linked to and they all sound like Sylenth and none of them sound particularly expressive or soulful. They sound like typical electronic music... and if someone wants that (and it is a fine thing to want) Sylenth is a fine choice...

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:44 pm

Phase47 wrote:
Diva sounds very rich in this area - I don't think it's necessarily wishful thinking. If it sounds good, people will use it. It just takes time to reverse habits and trends. Not an immediate process.

Rich is a good term... full of character and variety...

With Sylenth, the resonance just sounds like it sounds. You can play with it some via the filter drive (not modulatable) but as you turn it up it is kinda like turning up a volume but the timbre is basically the same.

With Diva the resonance and how it interacts with PWM, feedback and filter FM as you turn it up is like a whole playground in itself! And it is distinctly different with different filter models.

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:58 pm

For me
Diva first
DUNE Second
PolyKB if you like its beautiful sound and the way you can allocate it in space..

discoDSP · Post by **discoDSP** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:01 pm

declassified wrote:Please, before you say "apples and oranges" etc read on

So I'd like to buy a VA synth, my budget is around 150€. In my songs I don't really use a lot of synths (I work more with audio and effects), usually just one for bass and maybe one for supporting pad/chords. So this will be the synth I'll use 100% of the time I need a synth. I have been trying Sylenth1 for a while and I like how quickly it can get my the sound I need and how easy it is compared to the variety of sounds it can do. I don't like the presets though, they're too trancy/clubby for my taste (my music is more jazzy/"deep"/soulful). I prefer deep, creamy vintage synth sounds over edgy, loud sounds.

I tried Diva because everyone's raving about it, and of course the sound is good. I can't really hear how it sounds "more analogue" than Sylenth1, though. Maybe I'll heear it later when I have used it more often. I think Diva's CPU usage isn't that much of a problem because I'll only use one or two instances per project (a 3x polyphonic pad takes 5% CPU on my 1.7Ghz Core i5). The GUI and workflow is a little strange to me, but I haven't used it as much as Sylenth1, maybe I just have to get used to the different modules.

Which one would you recommend?

None of those

xh3rv · Post by **xh3rv** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:03 pm

declassified wrote:
Am I on the right track with Diva?

Considering the stuff you posted - peculiarly I think these sounds might reference some things but sort of succeed in how they fail to completely emulate. Matching Diva's differently sourced components isn't a bad way to go about this. Diva's FX might be worth considering for 'vibe' qualities, the rotary and phaser (stoned) specifically associate well here.

Really, up to you though ultimately

I'd feel wrong if I didn't also suggest Zebra, considering that you're also looking for a versatile synth to get really in-depth with - that's Zebra, versatile and in-depth.

braj · Post by **braj** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:15 pm

george wrote:
declassified wrote:Please, before you say "apples and oranges" etc read on

So I'd like to buy a VA synth, my budget is around 150€. In my songs I don't really use a lot of synths (I work more with audio and effects), usually just one for bass and maybe one for supporting pad/chords. So this will be the synth I'll use 100% of the time I need a synth. I have been trying Sylenth1 for a while and I like how quickly it can get my the sound I need and how easy it is compared to the variety of sounds it can do. I don't like the presets though, they're too trancy/clubby for my taste (my music is more jazzy/"deep"/soulful). I prefer deep, creamy vintage synth sounds over edgy, loud sounds.

I tried Diva because everyone's raving about it, and of course the sound is good. I can't really hear how it sounds "more analogue" than Sylenth1, though. Maybe I'll heear it later when I have used it more often. I think Diva's CPU usage isn't that much of a problem because I'll only use one or two instances per project (a 3x polyphonic pad takes 5% CPU on my 1.7Ghz Core i5). The GUI and workflow is a little strange to me, but I haven't used it as much as Sylenth1, maybe I just have to get used to the different modules.

Which one would you recommend?
None of those

Let me guess what you recommend

Diva vs Sylenth1