Tone2 Rayblaster: OUT NOW! (demo version available)

[KBSoundSmith]

How's the quality of Tone2 synths in general?

Seems they release new synths fairly frequently. How do they measure in terms of aliasing and overall sound quality versus cpu performance?

Hmm, hard to say. Their demos are so restrictive that I've never spent long with their synths, let alone buy any of them. Perhaps either Ingo or himalaya can chime in?

[Frantz]

I find this interesting especially since the website mentions "low CPU."

I am looking forward to trying this although creating and importing samples seems like it may be less fun than subtractive synthesis.

I did a US and European patent search for inventions by Markus Feil but didn't find anything. If Impulse Modeling Synthesis is a "radically new and different approach to synthetic sound generation," shouldn't it be patented?

[KBSoundSmith]

I find this interesting especially since the website mentions "low CPU."

I am looking forward to trying this although creating and importing samples seems like it may be less fun than subtractive synthesis.

I did a US and European patent search for inventions by Markus Feil but didn't find anything. If Impulse Modeling Synthesis is a "radically new and different approach to synthetic sound generation," shouldn't it be patented?

No, I sincerely doubt it's "new". They're probably mixing several microsound techniques (see my previous post in this thread), long available in environments like Csound, along with psychoacoustic considerations and calling their specific blend a new name; overall, such techniques don't find their way into commercial products frequently. So between the lack of familiarity most will have with the techniques, the rarity of commercial adaptation, as well as whatever blending of those ideas they've concocted, it seems Tone2 found something they could give a name for marketing purposes.

[dalor]

Well, patents.. Can of worms, bullshit right there. Feel free to make up your own mind.

[pdxindy]

You do a sample of one of your favorite synth (maybe at around 30-50% of the maximum Cutoff) and from that sample you create a single cycle waveform with zero-crossings at the beginning and the end.
If you load that waveform into Rayblaster it recreates the impulse response of the filter of the original synth.

How can you possibly recreate an impulse response (which has a time dimension) from a single cycle waveform?

[pdxindy]

"Pleasant Loud Fat ..."

.. I started laughing when that appeared in the video... took it less seriously afterwards.. but yeah, still worth giving a try when it comes out.

You just have to ignore and forgive the grandiose marketing statements from Tone2. If they believed everything they claim in the video and new product page, they would stop selling all their other 'conventional' synths.

I got a good laugh at the - it always sits in the mix - and of course the - it can reproduce every other existing filter...

But I am always interested to try new synth ideas and appreciate any attempts at something new.

[Crackbaby]

can't wait to be annoyed with demo restrictions!

Am i wrong in thinking that the guy who makes the promo (the wordings) is the same guy who decides the demo limitations? Just going to throw in the word narcissistic in there.

[Ingonator]

it can reproduce every other existing filter...

Maybe no reproduction into the detail but it could reproduce the character.
i have used single cycle waveforms based on my Moog Slim Phatty and several softsynths and they all seem to produce a different filter response in Rayblaster and what is more important one that corresponds to the chaeacter of the original synth.
I even used a waveform based on the Comb filter of Largo and Rayblaster could reproduce that quite well.

You could get also very nice results with Resonant waveforms. The Resonance behaves comparable to the original filter which means turning the Formant knob works in a comparable wa to moving the Cutoff in the original synth.

If you use a different "PW sequence" like e.g. "Square<PW>Peek" you could even create a Square or Pulse wave even if the original waveform was a Sawtooth.
You could also create e.g. a Triangle or other shapes with that.

You do a sample of one of your favorite synth (maybe at around 30-50% of the maximum Cutoff) and from that sample you create a single cycle waveform with zero-crossings at the beginning and the end.
If you load that waveform into Rayblaster it recreates the impulse response of the filter of the original synth.

How can you possibly recreate an impulse response (which has a time dimension) from a single cycle waveform?

I am no developer so i don't know exactly HOW it works but based on my experiments with waveforms of many different synths and different filter types i know that it seems to work.
Besides that even a short single cycle waveform got a time dimension even if it's just Milliseconds.
A filter is usually static too, it just gets a time dimension by adding modulation. Of course Rayblaster could not emualte the envelope of the original synth (so far...).

BTW here you could read about the details of the Impulse modelling synthesis:
http://www.tone2.com/html/impulse_model ... is__i.html

A quote from that website:

"This does mean that we can also hear the phase of partials if a sound is played at low base frequency. This fact is neglected by conventional synthesizers, not well understood by audio engineers and lead to the development of many 'voodoo phase enhancement tools'.
The advantage of RayBlaster in sound quality compared to conventional synthesizers is most audible with sounds which have a very low base frequency and a dense spectrum.
RayBlaster's IMS models the short-time energy distribution of the signal in an extremely detailed way. As a result the nerves in our inner ear do get excited with an exactly defined timing. That's why RayBlaster unveils access to a completely new sonic dimension, sounds more present and cuts through the mix.
The conventional synthesizers do not provide any control about the timing of the short-time energy distribution at low frequencies. That's why they suffer from a smeared, muffled and muddy sound or lack with details."


With waveforms used at low harmonics you could sync the waveform to BPM (with BPM switch) to receive rhythmical sequences.



Ingo

[Crackbaby]

" not well understood by audio engineers "

the arrogance ..........

did the guy writing this used to work for some TV Shopping network?

It's like they intentionally aim for the dumb mass to swallow

So first this load of cr*p to gently start ticking you off, then comes the demo limitations and then the trolling of fans on this forum ......... Really looking forward to this

[Ingonator]

limitations and then the trolling of fans on this forum ......... Really looking forward to this

Who is "trolling" here? Not me for sure. I just try to give informations about how the synth works. As already mentioned currently i am not allowed to post audio demos to show what i'm talking about so try to describe it as good as possible.

In the last pages i explained several things possible with the synth and it would be nice if that is not ignored.

Besides that there is lot's of informations on the Rayblaster website, especially at the "details" website.

BTW i have listened to the current version of the factory sounds and most of them sound just amazing IMO.


Ingo

[filter303]

I have multiple hardware synths that I am interested in replicating in software, so I am definitely keeping my eye on this on. But I have my doubts about how well it's going to be working. I would be rich if I got one euro every time when I hear developer claiming that their new product is emulating some classic synths or outboard perfectly. It's so unfortunate that everytime when I've had the chance to compare the original product with the VST the original has sounded better. This is one of the reasons why I usually like original products more than the emulations.

I just have to remember some of my previous expriences to make me realize that I probably shouldn't expect perfection from Rayblaster, but nevertheless I am very curious to try it out myself to see how well it works.

I am wondering if the user needs to capture the source multiple times in order to replicate the whole filter range or how does it work?

Is it possible to get an small explanation for this from someone who has already used this thing?

Thanks.

[Ingonator]

I have multiple hardware synths that I am interested in replicating in software, so I am definitely keeping my eye on this on. But I have my doubts about how well it's going to be working. I would be rich if I got one euro every time when I hear developer claiming that their new product is emulating some classic synths or outboard perfectly. It's so unfortunate that everytime when I've had the chance to compare the original product with the VST the original has sounded better. This is one of the reasons why I usually like original products more than the emulations.

I just have to remember some of my previous expriences to make me realize that I probably shouldn't expect perfection from Rayblaster, but nevertheless I am very curious to try it out myself to see how well it works.

I am wondering if the user needs to capture the source multiple times in order to replicate the whole filter range or how does it work?

Is it possible to get an small explanation for this from someone who has already used this thing?

Thanks.

This is NOT about emulating a complete synth but about emulating the filter response. If you need Resonance you also need a waveform that contains resonance.
Anyway there is an "Osc window" called "Sinc BP3" which could emulate Resonance in several cases. Within the factory sounds there are also Tutorial presets which show how to recreate certain filter responses based on the default waveform.
With those "Osc windows" you could radically change the original sound of the waveform. This and the "PW sequences" work a bit like a waveshaper.

If you the load a non-resonant and a resonant waveform into Wave1 and Wave2 of one oscillator you could mix them using the "Wave 1/2 Mix" control.
This could be also modulated by e.g. an envelope or a LFO.


Ingo

[filter303]

Thanks for answering to me Ingo. Is the resonance static or can you lower or raise it (is that how the "wave 1/2 mix" you explained works)?

[Ingonator]

Thanks for answering to me Ingo. Is the resonance static or can you lower or raise it (is that how the "wave 1/2 mix" you explained works)?

There is no direct way to lower the Resonance so far. Either you use the Wave Mix, use a second oscillator and it's volume knob or create waveforms with different resonance amounts. I have created a few presets that morph to a Resonant waveform while using the Modwheel.

Anyway comparable to the original synth the resonance behavior depends on the Formant setting (corresponds to the Cutoff), the selected harmonic, filter keytracking ("Key" knob) and modulation with e.g. Envelope 1.

Here is an example of a resonant waveform that could be used for Rayblaster. This is based on a sample taken from D-16 Phoscyon which is a TB-303 emulation:



This one is from the Saurus 24dB LPF:


Those do not only look different, they also behave and sound different within Rayblaster.


BTW there is also a second keytracking knob for the pitch. If this is set to the middle position (= 0) the pitch is not changing while playing different keys.


Ingo

[Crackbaby]

Ingo! I didn't mean you! Your posts has always been very informative and helpful. I read them with great interest!

What i referred to was the infected Saurus thread where the likes of maxsynths and that other guy really put on a good show. Not to mention what some of the not-Saurus-guys did.

Personally i rather read what you write when you explain the features and possibilities. That way whatever guy at tone2's website/videos won't tickle my ill nerves

limitations and then the trolling of fans on this forum ......... Really looking forward to this

Who is "trolling" here? Not me for sure. I just try to give informations about how the synth works. As already mentioned currently i am not allowed to post audio demos to show what i'm talking about so try to describe it as good as possible.

In the last pages i explained several things possible with the synth and it would be nice if that is not ignored.

Besides that there is lot's of informations on the Rayblaster website, especially at the "details" website.

BTW i have listened to the current version of the factory sounds and most of them sound just amazing IMO.


Ingo