Are we seeing the decline of the plug-in industry?

[tanabarbier]

Let's assume that it's students and less well off countries that consume the most pirate plugins.

Well I have no idea if this is the majority of cracked plugins consumers, but I can tell you that here in Mexico the majority has a point of view on piracy that is reaaaaaally far from what I read here. Not saying that they are right, of course...
Here piracy is at almost every corner with DVDs and CDs, there are places in the center where you can buy DVDs with "5Gos of sofware for 10 dollars" and stuff like that...

On one side I do know people that could afford plugins and pirate them, and people that can't afford them and use freeware too, but it is absolutly true that 200 dollars is a LOT of money for the big BIG majority of people here. It represents something like a month and a half of minimum salary...
To give an idea: I never complain about money myself, I am not underpaid, I teach in the SAE institute here for 15h a week and make something like 1000 dollars a month... It is gonna be reeaaally long to save money for those expensive plugins... So I go for freeware, and THANKS KVR for the time you guys help me save looking for the right ones!

[hibidy]

Sorry to perpetuate the OT tangent, but it has to be said...

To the people who think that human civilization was such a bad idea and is a pox upon the pristine earth, why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Lead us by example. Quit posting on the damned internet, renounce society and go live in a cave to shiver in the muck and filth, in full harmony with nature, changing nothing about your environment and bending yourself to its will.

Join the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement!

http://www.vhemt.org/

Do I get to do the extinguishing of the volunteers?

You bring the cyanide, I'll bring myself!

[hibidy]

I'd like to echo the point about being thankful for all of this. I have nothing but time on my hands, so it gives me something to do. I'd rather buy all these crazy gadgets, debate them, etc than not have it (well, most of the time )

[earlevel]

Current deep discounts on Lexicon. Current deep discounts on Waves software....

I mean, I love the lower (and lower) prices, but I hope this isn't pointing to major difficulties that software developers are having with kracks and piracy.

This thread is way too long to read...but no, I don't think piracy has much to do with it. It's not like piracy is a new thing, nor is it likely that many of those pirates would be moved to fork over big bucks should their ability to steal suddenly go away.

First, it's a niche market—how many of your relatives and old school chums live on the cutting edge of music production?

Second, more and more developers—you don't need a big company, just a website, and most products could be developed by one or a few people (assuming they are clever enough and hard working—I'm not belittling the products, just pointing out that producing a focused add-on doesn't require the capital that a do everything product requires).

Third—and I think this is a biggie—is that the stuff that comes bundled with your DAW is pretty decent these days.

I bought the Waves Platinum bundle on Black Friday. Did I need to buy it because I can no longer stand to use the plug-ins that come with DP 8? Because I find the Masterworks EQ awkward or bad-sounding? The compressors, limiters, and convolution reverb unusable? No, I bought it because my collaborator uses Wave Platinum, and it will make life a little easier when we swap projects back and forth. For under $500, it was worth breaking out the debit card. At $1000, I'd struggle with the minor inconvenience of not having it.

And that's what the price drops get the manufacturers—the discounts let them tap into a different group of people as new customers. And even if I don't turn to the Waves plug-ins often myself, it's likely that they'll be getting upgrade revenue from me too. (And some price drops are because a major upgrade precisely for that reason.)

[zerocrossing]

It's simple economics. In the beginning bigger developers of hardware thought they'd price their software like hardware and found out that wasn't a great idea. Too many small and excellent developers already had competitive products out there that kicked butt. Still some people had to have the "Lexicon" or what ever brand they were loyal to, but when the market was saturated those companies realized that to stay in the game they had to bring prices down to a more reasonable level.

[Acrobat]

Quit posting on the damned internet, renounce society and go live in a cave to shiver in the muck and filth

this thing about the "cave" is northern way to live, smart primitives do dance in the sun, mate!

[metamorphosis]

Like anything digital, piracy is a huge factor in whether or not a business is sustainable. If you want to fool yourself otherwise, go bury your head in the sand.
Piracy doesn't stop until policing and social pressure make it uncomfortable for idiots to pirate.

[mclovestrina]

I think for software their should be a different pricing standard for different countries. If you take a third world country like my country for example (Philippines) where an average employee could only get less than 200$ a month at most to feed a family of 5 for example. The choice would be obvious.

A different standard for pricing should in some way help with piracy issues on countries like mine. I have seen this done in books with great success. There are books here that are licensed and reprinted and sold for a much lesser price because it is fact that a lot people wouldn't have been able to afford the same books otherwise. So I don't see any reason why this can't be done for software which doesn't really cost anything to reproduce.

[pdxindy]

I think for software their should be a different pricing standard for different countries. If you take a third world country like my country for example (Philippines) where an average employee could only get less than 200$ a month at most to feed a family of 5 for example. The choice would be obvious.

A different standard for pricing should in some way help with piracy issues on countries like mine. I have seen this done in books with great success. There are books here that are licensed and reprinted and sold for a much lesser price because it is fact that a lot people wouldn't have been able to afford the same books otherwise. So I don't see any reason why this can't be done for software which doesn't really cost anything to reproduce.

How would resales be handled?

[tanabarbier]

The same way educational discounts are handled, with a proof that you do live in a third world country, why not? Sensomusic does something similar, giving an intermediate licence (Usine Stage) to people living in third world countries, wich allows you to have a full licence at the price of the upgrade, or just a reduced (but really enough for allmost everything) licence for free!
That kind of attitude helps antipiracy too, I don't know anyone here that would pirate a company that gives you half his work for free!

[mclovestrina]

I think for software their should be a different pricing standard for different countries. If you take a third world country like my country for example (Philippines) where an average employee could only get less than 200$ a month at most to feed a family of 5 for example. The choice would be obvious.

A different standard for pricing should in some way help with piracy issues on countries like mine. I have seen this done in books with great success. There are books here that are licensed and reprinted and sold for a much lesser price because it is fact that a lot people wouldn't have been able to afford the same books otherwise. So I don't see any reason why this can't be done for software which doesn't really cost anything to reproduce.

How would resales be handled?

mmm I'm not sure because I honestly have no knowledge with regards to the business side of things. But again like those books, they are watermarked with a print that says something like "not for sale or resale outside of the Philippines or Southeast Asia". So I'm thinking they could be sold for a lower price provided they can only be used or resold within a specific region. I think the technology for securing this sort of licensing is already available, like those youtube videos that are unavailable based on ones IP address for example. Hell I'm even willing to compromise with using iLok if this can be implemented.

[earlevel]

Like anything digital, piracy is a huge factor in whether or not a business is sustainable. If you want to fool yourself otherwise, go bury your head in the sand.

Well, it is a factor, certainly—that's why people use various copy protection techniques on their plug-ins. But since we're talking about plug-in as they exist (and the OP mentioned Waves and Lexicon in particular, and we all know they have CP), I figure that assumption has already been made. I'm not sure who you are talking about that might be fooling themselves or burying their heads in the sand, nor do I know you background, whether you are a plug-in developer or marketer. But I do think you're being a bit harsh, labeling people fools—some here have been involved in the industry for some time. Just because someone doesn't wring their hands in grief over piracy doesn't mean that are ignorant or wear rose-colored glasses.

I can say that yes, the manufacturers do consider piracy heavily, in that they opt for CP for that reason. But as far as "sustainable", if it's something that is good enough that people would want to pirate it, it's going enough that others would pay for it willingly.

[izonin]

A Bricasti plugin coded by Casey himself would be exciting. Oh, and a native Kemper amp sim. I guess everyone knows why it's never gonna happen.

[stonestreet]

In my experience, people that are serious about their hobby pay for their stuff, period.

It's something strangely satisfying about owning software.

Downloading pirated goods maybe easy and cost-effective, but feels empty in comparison with owning it.

I would not know, always bought my software. Although when I was a youth I used to tape the top 20 and share albums with mates. But that was ok, Chrissy Hyndes gave me permission!!!

[hibidy]

a native Kemper amp sim. I guess everyone knows why it's never gonna happen.

It would be too too digital?