KVR Audio

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:52 am

It is always a pleasure to hear/read a reasoned opinion - no matter if
you couldn't totally agree with it. H.

AKJ · Post by **AKJ** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:42 am

I totally agree about the no need for a 4001 argument. But will there be a Höfner one day?

cheers, akj

Mr.Scarbee · Post by **Mr.Scarbee** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:51 am

Höfner has a fat, sexy sound. I own one.
Would be great to do one - but its not entirely up to me.

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:43 pm

AKJ wrote:I totally agree about the no need for a 4001 argument. But will there be a Höfner one day?

cheers, akj

This is really not much more than ***licking comment.
Höfner is already well sampled e.g. by the Spectrasonics (Trilian)
but I haven't heard yet well implemented Rick 4001 (e.g. Macca or Chris sound)
by any instrument sampling company. H.

uberschall · Post by **uberschall** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:51 am

Hello- my first post here in years!

I've had the MM Bass for a bit and just got the Rickenbacker installed- it sounds great, and is fun to play on the keyboard. I'm working on my first tune with it, though, and have had a strange issue: in Logic Exp. 9, the samples sound slightly behind the beat, in a way that MM Bass, Trilian and all my other virtual instruments aren't. Everything seems to be working fine with my IMac w/8GB RAM- no glitches or noticeable latency while recording, or with V.I.'s or plugins. The only way I can get the Rick to lock with the drums or metronome is to shift the MIDI forward by @-70 ticks using the Delay parameter in the Track header.

Here's a screenshot with, from top to bottom:
MIDI drums
MIDI bass
Bounced Rick Bass Audio
Bounced -70 tick Rick Bass Audio
Bounced MM Bass playing the same MIDI file

(Hopefully) you can see how the MIDI drum and bass hits are both quantized right on the beats, but the Rick bass audio is WAY behind- not just visually, you can really hear it. The -70 tick Rick track sounds much better. The MM track also sounds/looks much better than the un-shifted Rick track.

I've have the MM and Rick libraries on an external 7200RPM FW drive, but I also copied the libraries to my system drive and audio drive and used those- same results. Sounds the same way in Reaper too. However, when I play notes on the keyboard, I don't notice any serious latency or Standalone Kontakt Player (latest.)

Any ideas or tips for how to proceed? I know that as a picked bass, the attack of the notes are going to be different, but it seems like if I have a line of quantized 8th-notes, they should sound way more locked with the beat than they do. I really would like to know as I'm using it that the feel of the bass and attack of the notes are as Thomas intended them to be. Without shifting the MIDI, it doesn't lock with the drums at all like his killer audio demos.

Mr.Scarbee · Post by **Mr.Scarbee** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:42 am

Hi

This is not strange at all - bass is intended this way. What you need to do is put pre-delay on track: -10 to -40 ms depending on track tempo. If ex tempo 100 try -25 ms and see how it feels.

Also in bass settings you can make scrape shorter if you like.

Good thing is that this "scrape" will make bass sound much more realistic - especially between notes. the sonic sauce between the notes makes all the difference!

BTW. I actually think we forgot to mention this pre-delay thing in manual so i will add it to atop section on www.scarbee.com (site is having a makeover these days).

I apologize for forgetting to mention this..

have fun

all the best

Thomas

uberschall · Post by **uberschall** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:36 pm

Thank you so much for the quick response, Mr. Skarbye!

Should one do the delay process strictly by ear or is there a kind of offset/scrape ratio or rule of thumb based on tempo or style?

In this case, my tempo is 165, and I'm going for a Green Day-type of feel (like the song "She.") 5-10ms. of Scrape offset tightens things up nicely without making it sound too clean, but anywhere from -35 to -65ms. of track delay could conceivably work.

Given that tempo and stylistic cue, is there an ideal number of delay ms. that occurs to you as a starting point, or should I just play with it 'til it feels right?

I very much appreciate your attention and insight!

Mr.Scarbee · Post by **Mr.Scarbee** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:53 pm

Hey ubershall

the max ms from scrape start to first big peak is 40ms so it should not have more than -40ms pre delay in any case.

When I will do scheme in next week i will take a kick drum and make to audio - then do same with bass and then change tempo of song and see the ms needed to get peaks in sync.

But notice that in many cases it can sound cooler if bass is a little behind the beat...

In tempo 165 i would start with -20 and then gradually make it closer to 30 and listen what is coolest.

cheers

Thomas

Mr.Scarbee · Post by **Mr.Scarbee** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:57 pm

First Editors Choice Review:

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-pa ... eview.html

uberschall · Post by **uberschall** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:28 pm

Thomas, things are sounding excellent now and I look forward to the info you come up with on the peaks.

How terrific it is to get personal feedback from the designer of such a great product- thank you and thank you KVR!

Great review video too- congrats!

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:06 pm

Mr.Scarbee wrote:First Editors Choice Review:

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-pa ... eview.html

Pro tools expert Russ really didn't spare superalatives.
E.g. "one of the best libraries ever"... Congratulations. H.

bill45 · Post by **bill45** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:14 pm

Is it consistent across the keyboard, tone and volume wise?

How consistent is the tone between velocity layers?

I'd like to hear how it responds, when playing fast repeated notes, think yes

"heart of the sunrise". What I've heard sounds real good so far.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:15 pm

Harry_HH wrote:Makes me wonder why create and market a product as "official rock lengend" and "iconic sound" and include e.g. Lenny but exclude Paul and Chris.

Who? Lenny from Motorhead?

I would love you to call him that to his face.

Harry_HH · Post by **Harry_HH** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:26 pm

Mr Arkadin wrote:
Harry_HH wrote:Makes me wonder why create and market a product as "official rock lengend" and "iconic sound" and include e.g. Lenny but exclude Paul and Chris.
Who? Lenny from Motorhead? I would love you to call him that to his face.

Why? Have you got other perversions, too?
(Empty bluster - these guys see just dollars when people start calling them first names, which mean them much more than the tough guy image.)

mholloway · Post by **mholloway** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:43 pm

I just bought this yesterday...and I am blown away. Easily the best sampled bass instrument I've ever heard or played. I used to use Reason's bass expansion back in the day, currently am a Trillian user (which I have some major problems with...) and jumped on this release right away because the Rick sound was what I was always really looking for (and always missing) -- specifically the mid/trebly rock sound (see preset "tight rocker"). This thing delivers and then some! Sorry to sound like an advertisement here, but I'm just that pleased with this -- It's amazing. The keyswitches are easy and fluid, the interface is gorgeous (and really quite deep), and the sound is, well, the Rickenbacker!

hats off to scarbee, he nailed this one out of the park.

NI's got a Rick bass plugin now, wherefore art thou Trillian?