Which package for classic symphony orchestra instruments?

[RuddyNuisance]

Hello folks,

after spending an entire weekend reading "the internet", including this forum, I still don't have an answer, so forgive me for asking here:

I need high quality instruments for a classical symphony orchestra. I've already spent a lot of time with Reaper putting together symphonic pieces, now it's time to make them sound good.

I've been looking at Garritan and Native Instruments. Garritan doesn't have an English horn, which I need.

Native Instruments confuse me. They offer a Komplete Ultimate product, which doesn't seem to have some instruments the much cheaper Kontakt product has, and even an English horn is listed there.

Essentially, I need individual (solo) violins and flutes, violin ensembles, horns, clarinets (two types, not sure what they're called in English), and most standard orchestra instruments. Imagine having to create a piece by Tchaikovsky or one of those chaps with virtual instruments, and the result shouldn't sound different to a real orchestra.

It doesn't have to be for free - if it's good, I don't mind paying for it.

Suggestions would be very welcome - I'm at a loss what to buy here.

Thanks folks!

RuddyNuisance

[db3]

How about Miroslav...

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/philharmonik/

[EvilDragon]

Check out Spitfire libraries for Kontakt.

[pethu]

I've been looking at Garritan and Native Instruments. Garritan doesn't have an English horn, which I need.

Yes, it does -- two of them, in fact. Plus 3 ensemble-building "derivatives" of
the first solo horn, making 5 sets of samples in all.

(Remember, an english horn is not brass, it's sorted under "woodwinds / oboes and english horns")

[saymoo]

VSL (Vienna Symphonic Library) is one of the best in this field. (also quite expensive, i guess quality has it's price). You can buy collections, to build you orchestra piece by piece, or section by section.

I own the special edition volume 1 and volume 1 PLUS bundle, and the sounds are for it's price very detailed/high tech. The legato patches are brilliantly programmed, sounding very natural.
Ofcourse the big collections are even more detailed etc..

The special edition is a good starting collection.

[RuddyNuisance]

Thank you all - my bad for indeed having looked for the English horn in the brass section... I will look at the suggestions in more detail.

Quick help and good answers - thanks folks!

[jeshi]

great thread here by Per Lichtman talking about string libraries
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 46#5202446

and a nice blog showing how different libraries sound different, but still high quality
http://eotte.blogspot.jp/2012/02/schind ... unter.html
http://eotte.blogspot.jp/2012/02/adagio-8dio-x6.html

I just went through the same process and decision making. I decided to start with Miroslav for my "complete orchestra" and added Kirk Hunter Pop Rock Strings for a string library with a lot more control/articulations/divisions. Should be good for the kind of music I make and give me enough to learn with. From what I have read, once you really get into orchestral composing, you tend to want/need many different libraries to give a big enough palette. Basically there is no one-best.

Depending on your budget and your goals (mixing with pop/rock/dance tracks, cinematic scoring, classical mock-ups) will determine where you want to focus. Do you want more "dry studio" so you can more easily add effects/blend into mixes or virtually alter the recording space with IR convolution reverbs. Or do you want more "natural reverb" which will sound better out of the box, more natural and maybe easier/faster to use, but less flexible.

Some names to add to the list (focused libraries)

strings: LASS (LA scoring strings), Cinematic Strings, Spitfire Albion, Spitfire Sable, ProjectSam Symphobia, 8DIO, VSL, Kirk Hunter, EastWest-QuantumLeap,

pianos: pianoteq, Ivory II, galaxy II

woodwinds/brass : VSL, WIVI

If you want a good basic "get you started" library the ones that I got recommended were: Miroslav, Garritan Personal Orchestra (GPO), VSL special edition collection 1 Essential Orchestra, and EWQLSO silver or gold. Misoslav and EWQLSO are on the "natural reverb" side, while VSL and GPO are on the "dry" side.

I am sure I have missed some.

for classical composing, VSL is a very good choice. check out their demos http://www.vsl.co.at/en/67/702/252.vsl

[PatchAdamz]

VSL (Vienna Symphonic Library) is one of the best in this field. (also quite expensive, i guess quality has it's price). You can buy collections, to build you orchestra piece by piece, or section by section.

I own the special edition volume 1 and volume 1 PLUS bundle, and the sounds are for it's price very detailed/high tech. The legato patches are brilliantly programmed, sounding very natural.
Ofcourse the big collections are even more detailed etc..

The special edition is a good starting collection.

Hard to beat Vienna Symphonic Library for quality but very expensive.

Miroslav...

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/philharmonik/

Older but on sale can be very affordable.

[Shangsean]

I wouldn't personally go with Garritan Personal Orchestra. I've had it for years and have never made anything I've been happy with using it. The sound doesn't impress me at all. Some people can make it sound okay though. I bought Kontakt 5 and was fairly impressed with the included orchestral content. I think if you don't go the Vienna route (it seems great, though I don't have it), go for Kontakt. It's not much more than GPO when it's on sale and sounds a lot better in my opinion. Then you also open up a lot of other opportunities for expansion libraries, some of which don't work with the free player. I can't remember a track that I haven't used Kontakt on since I bought it. Best money I ever spent.

I wouldn't really go for Komplete Ultimate if you're looking for orchestral instruments. For general scoring, Komplete Ultimate 9 is very good, but I wouldn't go for it for orchestral instruments.

I personally own Albion 1 + 3 for orchestral sounds. Although, if I had to do it again, I would just go for Symphobia or Orchestral Essentials for the stuff I create. They're are probably not the most suitable for you though.

[Karmacomposer]

I personally own Albion 1 + 3 for orchestral sounds. Although, if I had to do it again, I would just go for Symphobia or Orchestral Essentials for the stuff I create. They're are probably not the most suitable for you though.

Since I am about to spend some money to add to my orchestral collection, why would you NOT recommend Albion? It was the package I decided to buy, but have not done so. Since it is expensive, I would love to know your opinions on it.

I have GIO and it is FANTASTIC, but for its niche. I also own Dimension Pro and that comes with Garritan Pocket Orchestra.

For my normal composing (and to answer the OP's question), I use EWQLSO Gold XP and KHSO Diamond. Those are my two "Go To" instruments and they have served me well for years. I do have Miroslav, but I don't use it much.

I am looking for a library that gives me more orchestral effects and runs than just plain orchestral instruments (strings, brass, woodwinds, etc).

Massive orchestral and cinematic percussion is a must have for me and my Storm Drum 1 is getting old and overused at this point. I am also looking to buy either Storm Drum 2, Sonivox's Big Bang Orchestral Drums or some other massive percussive instrument - thoughts?

I am trying to decide between Tutti/Vivace, Albion 1, 2 and 3 or Symphobia. However, Symphobia is very expensive and if I decide on Albion, I may only purchase Albion 1. Orchestral Essentials did not impress me (from the videos). I LOVE Albion's Octaver (or whatever it's called) from the demo videos - I would use it most of all.

Any thoughts, advice and warnings are appreciated.

Mike

[angelinni]

What about project sam true strike for percussion? AFAIK, is very "cinematic"
Remember that tutti/vivece are focused on fx, while dacapo (also from sonokinetic) is about sections

[Shangsean]

I personally own Albion 1 + 3 for orchestral sounds. Although, if I had to do it again, I would just go for Symphobia or Orchestral Essentials for the stuff I create. They're are probably not the most suitable for you though.

Since I am about to spend some money to add to my orchestral collection, why would you NOT recommend Albion? It was the package I decided to buy, but have not done so. Since it is expensive, I would love to know your opinions on it.

I have GIO and it is FANTASTIC, but for its niche. I also own Dimension Pro and that comes with Garritan Pocket Orchestra.

For my normal composing (and to answer the OP's question), I use EWQLSO Gold XP and KHSO Diamond. Those are my two "Go To" instruments and they have served me well for years. I do have Miroslav, but I don't use it much.

I am looking for a library that gives me more orchestral effects and runs than just plain orchestral instruments (strings, brass, woodwinds, etc).

Massive orchestral and cinematic percussion is a must have for me and my Storm Drum 1 is getting old and overused at this point. I am also looking to buy either Storm Drum 2, Sonivox's Big Bang Orchestral Drums or some other massive percussive instrument - thoughts?

I am trying to decide between Tutti/Vivace, Albion 1, 2 and 3 or Symphobia. However, Symphobia is very expensive and if I decide on Albion, I may only purchase Albion 1. Orchestral Essentials did not impress me (from the videos). I LOVE Albion's Octaver (or whatever it's called) from the demo videos - I would use it most of all.

Any thoughts, advice and warnings are appreciated.

Mike

I haven't used Symphobia in a composition and I'm not saying that I think Albion isn't worth the money either. I just feel that the sound of Albion just doesn't seem to fit into what I do. I think Albion sounds pretty natural and warm, probably more so than Symphobia. I think Symphobia sounds more processed (to my ears), but also cleaner. Albion has some noise on some samples that annoys me, whereas Symphobia sounds more pristine. I have Albion, but I'm judging Symphobia from videos and audio demos. Someone who owns Symphobia may say it has its own problems, but from what I've heard, it sounds pretty clean and big. I also don't really like the string shorts in Albion. I find it hard to get the timing right with them. Some seem slower than others, so I have to adjust some individual notes to make it sound in time (this could be just me, though I'm pretty sure I've seen it mentioned before). Symphobia 1 also lacks true legato, which Albion does have.

I didn't go for Symphobia initially because of the price, its age and the very good reputation that Albion has earned. But now I sort of feel like Symphobia, with it's huge sound (I think), would have been better suited to my not very classical orchestral parts. I picked up Albion 3 because I felt I was missing the big, low, dark sound I was looking for, but it just didn't do it for me at all. If you're going for Albion 1, I would use that first and see if that gives you all you need before purchasing the others in the series. Well, especially Albion 3 anyway. I think the low strings in Albion 1 sound as good as the lows in Albion 3, but Albion 3 does have some nice low brass. I wouldn't go for Albion 3 if fx are one of the main things you're looking for either. One thing about Albion 3 that I like better is the string shorts. Albion 1 has quite a good selection of effects.

I don't like the loops in either library and I've barely used the synth stuff either. The purcussion in Albion 1 is really quite good.

Anyway, I'm not trying to push you away from Albion at all. There are plenty of people more talented and more knowledgeable than me that swear by it, but we all have different tastes and place different levels of importance on different elements. I'm annoyed by noise, others probably think it makes it sound more natural and realistic. And who knows, if I'd bought Symphobia, I possibly would've been wishing I'd bought Albion. I do really regret Albion 3 though. Oh, and another thing, if I had bought Symphobia and it didn't do what I was hoping it would, I could've sold it. Albion is not for resale, which is something that I'm avoiding from now on, especially at that price.

As far as other percussion libraries go, if you're only getting one, I'd go for Damage. Apocalypse percussion is also very good, but doesn't cover as many different areas.

Sorry about the disjointed dribble above. Good luck with your purchase, I certainly didn't make things any clearer. They're all quality products, whichever way you decide to go.

[EvilDragon]

I LOVE Albion's Octaver (or whatever it's called)

Ostinatum!

[Echoes in the Attic]

I would definitely recommend Albion 1 for overall Orchestral library. My favorite strings from the Albion series are in Albion II Loegria though. More variety and I like the sound and attacks. Iceni (Albion III) doesn't offer enough to recommend it. Some cool low Brass and winds but not that much content.

However for the OP, who's looking for solos mainly, then the ensemble type products don't sound like what he wants. Spitfire do have Solo strings, which sound nice. I don't have them, I just use LASS for that. For solo Brass Sample Modeling is definitely the best. I also like the solos in Cinebrass. Far less control than Sample Modeling but the polyphony is nice and a great sound out of the box. For solo winds there are lots of options - VSL is popular. Berlin woodwinds, Cinewinds etc.

[H.Noury]

You can listen to what I did with the Garritan sound bank on this page :
http://www.hervenoury.com/Seyesh.html

or on the 2 first tracks on this one :
http://www.hervenoury.com/PiecesDiverses.html

It is an "european classical music" sound.
On a Mac, the sound bank of Logic Audio sounds more like "Hollywood".