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Alternatives to Absynth?

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inkwarp
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425 posts since 16 Jan, 2012, from UK

Postby inkwarp; Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:54 am Re: Alternatives to Absynth?

Absynth is complex. ok if you just relied on the presets i guess. but to clunky and obtuse.
i would say if you have reaktor you would never need absynth.
as alternaties, zebra, alchemy ( that's the one to beat imo). as one poster suggested Granite is a good workhorse for granular stuff, it's got an economic gui. i also used to have one called Mangle but i am not sure if that's still available...
gremlinmoon
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151 posts since 9 Dec, 2006

Postby gremlinmoon; Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:27 am Re: Alternatives to Absynth?

Renoise would actually be an affordable alternative in a lot of ways. It is like a giant hybrid synth with deep possibilities and a nice price point.

In a recentish podcast the Absynth dev said he is always working on Absynth. He also said he is working on a modal synthesis related project.

NI has Prism and a modal bank available in Reaktor. Also, NI, like Adobe, likes to have a suite of products versus one or two "power products." A premium Absynth, like a Omni/Falcon/Avenger/etc..might be too cannabalistic to Komplete.

Just speculating: If Absynth's dev gets $1 in royalties per license (Komplete or not) and a modest base stipend as part of a non-compete contract he can be financially stable year in and out.

For me, Omni has generally replaced Absynth as it has a pipe model, resonator, granular effect, comb filter, easy to use msegs and while you cannot finely detail a waveform you have a lot of control via the shape, symmetry and sync parameters, all of which are automatable. Due to licensing of effects I presume, Omni does not have audio in while Absynth does, so that is how I use it when I do.
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martinjuenke
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464 posts since 28 Dec, 2015, from Germany

Postby martinjuenke; Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:40 pm Re: Alternatives to Absynth?

+1 for Logic and its crazy worth of content for that humble price tag! You can do so much with this stuff alone (if you're not addicted to GAS)
8)
Music was my first love ...
ambient music
http://www.mrtnjnk.bandcamp.com
HcDoom
KVRian
 
701 posts since 18 Feb, 2012

Postby HcDoom; Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:32 pm Re: Alternatives to Absynth?

inkwarp wrote:Absynth is complex. ok if you just relied on the presets i guess. but to clunky and obtuse.
i would say if you have reaktor you would never need absynth.
as alternaties, zebra, alchemy ( that's the one to beat imo). as one poster suggested Granite is a good workhorse for granular stuff, it's got an economic gui. i also used to have one called Mangle but i am not sure if that's still available...


Absynth is complex on the first, but once you get the hold of it, you can quickly make really a lot of interesting and moving sounds which you mostly cannot make with any other synth. For me, one of the best...if not the best synth out there. But not anymore, as I mentioned before, sound quality is not on par with competition anymore and GUI needs a serious update.
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jancivil
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12934 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:38 am Re:

BBFG# wrote:So far, I have to say the NI sounds in all of their synth forms are 'solid' and can even be called 'Pristine', Somehow though, they also sound and feel 'sterile'.

But the 'Skippy' videos and soundbanks seem to give it more life.
Seems like third party sounds are mandatory to make them better.

think about that statement though: doesn't it really indicate that the difference is the quality of the sound designer working with the synth?
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jancivil
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12934 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:57 am Re: Alternatives to Absynth?

I returned to heavy Absynth programming this year. There is nothing particularly deficient about its sound, if you want to say that what you're doing is apples v. oranges anyway, it is what it is. It can do all manner of sound that most people think it won't do, anyway. Its interface encourages a more explorative sense than a basic subtractive synth, but there is nothing there to prevent making a big fat analog-type of sound in it. I was thinking about this the other day; I have on occasion arrived at something in this NI synth that is very like this other NI synth sonically. Something in Kontour a lot like something in Massive. So while I think 'the NI sound' is a too-glib thing to say, there may be something there. That said, I'll repudiate it partially by asserting there are things in say Skanner you will not get with any other NI synth, there are things in Absynth that, if only because it uses components which are a unique design produce sonic uniqueness.
EG: some of the filters appear to be pretty much unique... I don't think there is anything anyone has even tried to directly compare with Absynth. But per Kontour vs Massive above, the way to _that_ sound can also be a way to a very different whole area...so there's kind of objective vs subjective here.

One of the fantastic things about it which will get you dramatically more mileage in a composition than, well, most things is the simple layout of three channels with that particular panner, which suggests 3D and of course surround. Your basic hard left, center, hard right with three different sounds, scaled and so forth, so you have at least 3 roles to start with - they can be radically different roles - a single MIDI track playing Absynth can be just HUGE.

Above it was asked if there is automation, indicating there was none in the demo. That doesn't scan for me, I don't think any NI synth's demo is crippled at all except for the time-out they all feature. This is maybe not the most elegant UI for it, but there is this 'macros' interface and there are 16 available, for CC control. It appears hard-wired eg., CC10 = pan etc but you can assign them to any parameter in there and now that's what the name of the macro reads as. I'm still working with a deep bank I made back in 2006 where the patches are so complex and so much going on that CC control isn't much of a thing, and I really kind of hate it simply because you don't see it working, and so many things you might do with it are really subtle, at this stage of exploiting it as I have anyway. So I made the envelopes do many things... the upshot is, you could go as crazy with control as I think can even be imagined it's such a rich engine.

I resisted A5 for a LONG damn time because by the time I was ready to plonk down the $ they'd broken it for Kore 2. But! the Cloud filter and the Effect 'Aetherizer' are fantastic additions.

I ultimately kind of tend towards 'the GUI is too small', mainly because I use long-ass envelopes so frequently, but the pluses so outweigh the niggles for me... It's the first soft synth I bought and I took to it at once and got busy. It sort of assumes a lot of knowledge going in, it isn't going to be baby's first synth by any means.
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jancivil
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12934 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:07 am Re: Alternatives to Absynth?

inkwarp wrote:to clunky and obtuse
i would say if you have reaktor you would never need absynth.

Doesn't scan for me at all. There is *nothing* in Reaktor to do most of what I do in Absynth.
And there isn't likely to ever be. Anywhere. People do like to project their limitations like the whole world must have the same ones, tho'.
How can an inanimate object be 'obtuse'?
Also, too, 'to' is a destination; 'too' is 'the excess of' when it isn't another way to say 'also'... :)

Obtuse is... the guy who just spammed us with his soundset or whatever, that's someone being obtuse.
Or it's an angle more than 90° and less than 180°.
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inkwarp
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425 posts since 16 Jan, 2012, from UK

Postby inkwarp; Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:14 am Re: Alternatives to Absynth?

obtuse as in trying to learn it. you know what i meant so why do you feel in it necessary for pedantry, condescension, fatuous and asinine remarks, vacuous..
well done. i didn't say it's an inanimate object. i meant it is obtuse when trying to learn.
it isn't that it's called an opinion. and that's all it is.
whereas you want your opinion to be fact. fascistic, narcissist etc..

do something useful instead of trolling people who are here to discuss music etc.
i find my world is free of

"People do like to project their limitations like the whole world must have the same ones, tho'."
tho'.. you are allowed grammatical errors and everyone else isn't?
class oxymoronic statement..
the reason i don't use absynth is because i chose other, better, more accessible kit so i do not have these limitations you are whittering on about.
BBFG#
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5205 posts since 28 Apr, 2013

Postby BBFG#; Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:15 am Re: Re:

jancivil wrote:
BBFG# wrote:So far, I have to say the NI sounds in all of their synth forms are 'solid' and can even be called 'Pristine', Somehow though, they also sound and feel 'sterile'.
...
Seems like third party sounds are mandatory to make them better.

think about that statement though: doesn't it really indicate that the difference is the quality of the sound designer working with the synth?

Absolutely! And the one I like best (for their synth specific plugins) is Absynth. Both Massive and many of the Reaktor plugins seem to have a particular frequency in the higher range that defies being EQ'd out (to my ears). I call it its 'Fran Drescher' character. It might be useful in some arrangements, but mostly, it's just annoying. Absynth does have a unique character I find more useful (albeit becoming 'nostalgic' as other synths progress beyond it).
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jancivil
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12934 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:28 pm Re: Alternatives to Absynth?

inkwarp wrote:obtuse as in trying to learn it. you know what i meant so why do you feel in it necessary for pedantry, condescension, fatuous and asinine remarks, vacuous..
well done. i didn't say it's an inanimate object. i meant it is obtuse when trying to learn.
it isn't that it's called an opinion. and that's all it is.
whereas you want your opinion to be fact. fascistic, narcissist etc..

do something useful instead of trolling people who are here to discuss music etc.
i find my world is free of

"People do like to project their limitations like the whole world must have the same ones, tho'."
tho'.. you are allowed grammatical errors and everyone else isn't?
class oxymoronic statement..
the reason i don't use absynth is because i chose other, better, more accessible kit so i do not have these limitations you are whittering on about.

Wow, you sure showed me how to be, isn't it! It seemed clear that you can't program Absynth so you've decided that amounts to it universally being... whatever. I'm not impressed, what idea does it serve per the question 'Alternatives to Absynth?' to say it isn't your thing? That's obtuse. There you have the word used meaningfully. You may not care, but I don't care about that! :)

There is no grammar problem in my sentence there. I did abbreviate 'though', however. So, please talk about 'fatuous' some more. I could give you workable definitions of the other words you chose to toss wildly with no apparent regard for sense, in your apparent outrage at someone finding what you said was really not very good. And really fatuous.

And you're doing exactly as I said again, you don't know what to do with it so it's deficient.

And your world evidently does include arguing at this same level. So I suppose I just found you full of shit yesterday and didn't bite my tongue. It happens. As to what I do with my time, you can go hear my music and then you may kiss my ass.
Last edited by jancivil on Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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jancivil
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12934 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:35 pm Re: Alternatives to Absynth?

inkwarp wrote:obtuse as in trying to learn it. you know what i meant so...

No, I really do not know and it is not my job to make sense of your statement for you.
It still makes no sense to use that word. Yes, one may call that pedantic and decide I'm a terrible person guilty of all manner of other unrelated sins for daring to state my problem with it. Your approval or approbation here is of no moment at all for me, though.
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jancivil
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12934 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:50 pm Re: Re:

BBFG# wrote:
jancivil wrote:
BBFG# wrote:So far, I have to say the NI sounds in all of their synth forms are 'solid' and can even be called 'Pristine', Somehow though, they also sound and feel 'sterile'.
...
Seems like third party sounds are mandatory to make them better.

think about that statement though: doesn't it really indicate that the difference is the quality of the sound designer working with the synth?

Absolutely! And the one I like best (for their synth specific plugins) is Absynth. Both Massive and many of the Reaktor plugins seem to have a particular frequency in the higher range that defies being EQ'd out (to my ears). I call it its 'Fran Drescher' character. It might be useful in some arrangements, but mostly, it's just annoying. Absynth does have a unique character I find more useful (albeit becoming 'nostalgic' as other synths progress beyond it).

Hmmm. I'm not hyper-aware of that phenomenon. I have not used all that many of the Reaktor Factory items. Steampipe is definitely one I know and it can get to be a really dirty 'phat' thing pretty quick and pushing it gets you into that 'analog' sort of world in my experience.
I have bought Reaktor Spark, Skanner was for Xmas but I upgraded it to XT, Monark, Kontour... and Massive which is not a Reaktor build afaik. Massive sometimes has a very 'NI Sound' that may be pretty much what you describe only it doesn't work so negatively on me. It has its place. But also, too, there are some things I get out of it which are very warm. Some of the patches are quite odd and kind of dead they're so cold. Sometimes I can use it.

I do encounter the same tendencies in Absynth everybody else did, as far as the sort of... strident highs and I would certainly say there are filters and ways of using the filters which have a certain 'Absynth' character but there are enough options (there is just more you can do in it that I've seen anything close to, that is just my experience tho') to where you can do things otherwise.
I think it's a somewhat misunderstood instrument.

But Monark rather gives the lie to this 'NI Sound' as a property per se of everything they make IMO.
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jancivil
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12934 posts since 20 Oct, 2007, from No Location

Postby jancivil; Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:06 pm Re: Alternatives to Absynth?

inkwarp wrote:do something useful instead of trolling people who are here to discuss music etc.

Well, evidently I did type a kind of extended post describing my experience with Absynth, with using it, which someone may find useful. What you said which was supposed to be anything which contributes to understanding (or the thread at all really) is not clear to me. It seemed maybe a bit trollish.
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liv
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1287 posts since 26 Feb, 2013, from Sweden

Postby liv; Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:22 pm Re: Alternatives to Absynth?

Imho Absynth can be so organic and unique theres simply no alternative to it at all.
Comb filters with wave shaper feedback with control of the amount and tone for crying out loud. Why don't every developer implement that. Allpass filters with self res and wave shaper feedback path, again with controllable amount. Blend the amounts with velocity or CC controlled breakpoint(s). Both as organic as physical objects and organisms.
The envelopes are still the best on the market to work with. Lined up. Why don't every developer implement the possibility to line up all envelopes.

What a synth :clap:
HcDoom
KVRian
 
701 posts since 18 Feb, 2012

Postby HcDoom; Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:34 pm Re: Alternatives to Absynth?

Can we make a petition for Absynth 6 and send it to NI somehow?
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