Countdown to Sample Tank 3, with 64 bit support

[mhog]

OK, so I see there are many that comment about a "player" version of just the engine to use only for the previous libraries in 64 bit environments. If that were the case, how much would you expect it to cost?

I can't believe you wrote that. You mean you're just realizing users are requesting this now?

We've been asking if a "free player" version of ST3 would be available last year and you said there was an "option" for a free player version. Why are you now asking what users would expect to pay for a player version? In my view it should be free like the "shells" for Amplitube and T-Racks.

He answered on IK forum:

1. SampleTank 2.5 and the rest of the Powered By SampleTank VIs have never been sold as 64 bit or 64-bit upgradable.

2. The decision not to port the current 2.x SampleTank VIs to 64 bit was due to the status of the code, which would have created a situation with bugs and instability.

3. The decision to not have a free version at release is because first SampleTank 3 new features and the entirely new sound set are closely connected.

4. Strong benefit (discount) to the early adopters that believed in SampleTank from the beginning as a way to reward longtime loyal users.

This is just business ("musicians first" etc. are nice slogans, not the truth). I Don't believe the hype. Peter is not like for instance Urs Heckmann or Rob Papen, who are directly responsible for what they claim. So, don't shoot the messenger... I suspect he is more like an ambassador (hard life ). The problem is that he always writes "WE will do this", "WE promise that", etc. as he could take decisions. When the bosses change their mind, the shit goes to him. It works like this, if you are not Heckmann, Papen, Persing and such, who have the nerve to answer for their decisions. Similar sad situation (for the messengers): Propellerheads. Either Iori (IK Boss) or Nathorst (PH CEO) never talk directly to customers. This is the difference, IMO.

[24MTS]

Finally I read something that makes sense in the last several pages!

The problem is that he always writes "WE will do this", "WE promise that", etc. as he could take decisions. When the bosses change their mind, the shit goes to him. It works like this, if you are not Heckmann, Papen, Persing and such, who have the nerve to answer for their decisions. Similar sad situation (for the messengers): Propellerheads. Either Iori (IK Boss) or Nathorst (PH CEO) never talk directly to customers. This is the difference, IMO.

There is so much bad attitude around that poor guy (Peter that is) really deserve an increase of his pay. On the other hand, don't be surprised if he does not spend a lot of time dealing with all sorts of childish request... Who would?

[KevWestBeats]

Business is business, but a cranky customer base that feels IKM has not treated it fairly, with all of the attendant venting on multiple music forums, isn't good for business, as far as I can see.

Is it really safe though to think that IK's entire fan base is on forums? How many of these cranky customers are not on multiple forums with different names saying the same things?

[BBFG#]

To be fair, I spent about an hour at the Ilio booth checking out Omnisfear. Customers were coming up during the whole time with problems they were having, the reps answers kept going to basically, "That's a system problem"; "That's a dealer issue"; "That's a user problem".

And their customer base doesn't seem cranky at all (mostly).

[Bombadil]

Business is business, but a cranky customer base that feels IKM has not treated it fairly, with all of the attendant venting on multiple music forums, isn't good for business, as far as I can see.

Is it really safe though to think that IK's entire fan base is on forums? How many of these cranky customers are not on multiple forums with different names saying the same things?

I wouldn't know the stats. It is a reasonable assumption, imo. People in the user demographic are generally well off enough off to own a computer (or have friends who do) and use it to research various products.

It is also a reasonable assumption that there are people on more than one forum bitching about this. I am not one of them, however. This is the only public forum where I've had anything to say about this situation. And, yes, you could classify me as one of the 'cranky' ones, but, I, too, was led to believe that I would be able to use my IKM VIs in a free version of ST3 within a reasonable period of time. Rather than whine and moan too much, I invested in alternatives, which include VEPro 5, which allows me to use IKM VIs in Logic X. It is a small hassle, though. That was my first step. Being satisfied with VSL, I decided to upgrade my orchestral library (which I am still in the process of doing). For synth stuff, I have Omnisphere: Medieval Legends, Best Service Ethno 5, and a couple of others I can't think of off the top of my head. So, rather than my money going to IKM, I put it elsewhere.

[BBFG#]

As has been pointed out, the group that complains the most about IKM is pretty much the same people on every forum. (Kind of like a WOW Hoarde going on raids). We see here it's mostly the same people triggering on every thread that gives them a chance for litany. Then the responses get repeated too. Everyone wants others to join the proposition or the opposition and some even try to stay out of it or have a balanced attitude in the middle. There are things I like about IKM and there are things I don't. One thing at NAMM, I didn't see anyone at the IKM booth that had anything negative to say about their products or their policies. And if you look at the forum without a preconceived bias, you catch both sides and actually glean some good information from both. What works the best for me now in any IKM thread is to not get caught up in either side.

Overall, the bottom line for me is they were cheap and they work (The VIs - still having problems with the FX/A3) but for the price, I can't complain... yet.

[b15fliptop]

I agree with the above. For instance, if you look at the thread on GS where Peter asked what the users thought a fair price for ST3 as a player only would be, I think one guy said "free", and the rest thought $50 would be reasonable. KVR is just it's own unique ecosystem, and you have to take it as such.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

As has been pointed out, the group that complains the most about IKM is pretty much the same people on every forum. (Kind of like a WOW Hoarde going on raids).

(different Horde, I know, but I was Horde when I played WoW so I couldn't resist this)

One thing at NAMM, I didn't see anyone at the IKM booth that had anything negative to say about their products or their policies.

To balance that a little, we had more complaints toward no AmpliTube on Android and I think two people with accessories that had issues so we took care of them best we could from the booth. To the first group, all I could say is that we do have a couple of Android apps coming sooner than later but still no AmpliTube due to the latency being "almost but not quite there" as best as I could describe. The only other "complaint" per se was that NAMM is really not the place that you can properly assess iLoud, which I completely understand and agree with so the only think I could do was suggest the Guitar Center down the road which was likely still a mess if it is near the guitar amps [/NO STAIRWAY]

Overall, the bottom line for me is they were cheap and they work (The VIs - still having problems with the FX/A3) but for the price, I can't complain... yet.

Please do shoot me your ticket if you've gotten to the point of opening one (we discussed this directly and I do admire your journey to learn more on your own first) and I'll at least see how it is unfolding, since you likely still don't ask for any special treatment (thanks for that too).

Nobody complained about SampleTank 3 or the policies around it, they were excited to use it, they asked good questions, but as was pointed out earlier the station was sometimes empty while all mobile iOS/Android stations were pretty much packed solid throughout.

[LAGinz]

The last time I looked, NAMM attendance was heavily weighted toward the industry, not the consumer, and so it is not surprising that no ST3 complaints arose there. Speaking personally, I do not hate IK, and own many of their products. In fact, I love T-Racks and like Amplitube very much. On the other hand, almost everything about this ST2/ST3 thing leaves an incredibly bad taste in my mouth. And yes, I have posted about this on both KVR and IK's own forum. So what? IK has posted on way more forums than I have touting ST2 and 3. Pardon us for exercising our free speech.

[mhog]

Nobody complained about SampleTank 3 or the policies around it, they were excited to use it, they asked good questions, but as was pointed out earlier the station was sometimes empty while all mobile iOS/Android stations were pretty much packed solid throughout.

What policies?! all I can see is something you call "Sampletank 3" with no infos at all about release, price etc. (after almost ten years of waiting). A sort of "prototype" with no info at all on your webpage (all the NAMM news are about the i-toys. Nothing at all about ST3, as if it does not even exist). If this is such a different product from ST2, why calling it ST3? You pretend to ignore ST2 users have been asking for years a simple ST update (in GUI and, recently, 64 bit). Nobody asked for "30 gb wonderful samples" and such. You are not clear at all about WHAT REALLY is ST3: an upgrade from 2.5 OR a brand new product?! I don't like this policy, thing should be clearer IMO.

[mhog]

I read on IK forum you explained why ST2 could not be ported to 64 bit. That is not important for the user, who does not have to pay for your issues.

[ObiWonder]

Nobody complained about SampleTank 3 or the policies around it, they were excited to use it, they asked good questions, but as was pointed out earlier the station was sometimes empty while all mobile iOS/Android stations were pretty much packed solid throughout.

What policies?! all I can see is something you call "Sampletank 3" with no infos at all about release, price etc. (after almost ten years of waiting). A sort of "prototype" with no info at all on your webpage (all the NAMM news are about the i-toys. Nothing at all about ST3, as if it does not even exist). If this is such a different product from ST2, why calling it ST3? You pretend to ignore ST2 users have been asking for years a simple ST update (in GUI and, recently, 64 bit). Nobody asked for "30 gb wonderful samples" and such. You are not clear at all about WHAT REALLY is ST3: an upgrade from 2.5 OR a brand new product?! I don't like this policy, thing should be clearer IMO.

To be clear SampleTank 3 is a NEW product. It will read all of our OLD SampleTank 2 libraries like SampleMoog, SampleTron, Miroslav Philharmonik....etc.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

@mhog: Whatever "policies" people have been complaining about for 80+ pages, perhaps? It is a full version, a complete rewrite and it is called SampleTank 3 for that logical reason. Nothing was ignored - there were points posted from our forum (a post made a while ago) above that explain why a "simple" update wasn't so simple or the right decision and it has been hashed and rehashed here quite a bit already with regard to users wanting said "simple" update. Take a look at the overview video which explains what SampleTank 3 is. Seems straightforward enough to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7uwcHPVyJU

The point was, nobody cared to gripe about any of these issues that has come up in this thread at NAMM where we were showing it. There were exhibitors, buyers/merchants, artists, regular users (since passes were available for many via exhibitors) so there was quite a cross-section and again none of them cared about any of the hubbub we see here.

You will get more information as we near release, open the web pages, etc. I'm sorry that there isn't enough information now for you and I do appreciate your interest in SampleTank 3.

[ksandvik]

....I just want SampleTank to work with Logic Pro X, been months now and it feels stupid opening Logic Pro 9 just to record some ST generated tracks.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

....I just want SampleTank to work with Logic Pro X, been months now and it feels stupid opening Logic Pro 9 just to record some ST generated tracks.

SampleTank 3 will be the solution for this.